Oh, it's not just the circular pattern, it's the themes therein. Any thread where consent is blurred and rape is mitigated is a bad look in my opinion.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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What about only having a thread for on field performance and transfer speculation?
Maybe the wrong thread was closed.
Maybe the wrong thread was closed.
AngeloHenriquez
Full Member
Isn't the other alternative to ban any discussion on his "Non football" issues, speaking purely about the performances and vigilantly patrol any discussion that threatens to curtail it, removing posters etc from that thread that can't speak specifically about the performance as it's shown that speaking about non football issues results in a circle of stupidity.Agreed. But the alternative is banning all Greenwood discussions or warning/banning virtually all posters who want him back/ignore what he has done.
Yeah, good idea, let's whitewash the vile allegations.Isn't the other alternative to ban any discussion on his "Non football" issues, speaking purely about the performances and vigilantly patrol any discussion that threatens to curtail it, removing posters etc from that thread that can't speak specifically about the performance as it's shown that speaking about non football issues results in a circle of stupidity.
AngeloHenriquez
Full Member
Suggested nothing of the sort but instead focus on the football side, discussing anything else isn't productive, nobody is changing their mind and people feel how they feel, it's very unlikely he will ever play for Manchester United again but that's a decision for the club in the summer, right now we only really have the footballing side to speak about surely?Yeah, good idea, let's whitewash the vile allegations.
So ignoring the allegations and just having a thread where only fanboys will discuss how great they think he is, that's not whitewashing? Hmm.Suggested nothing of the sort but instead focus on the football side, discussing anything else isn't productive, nobody is changing their mind and people feel how they feel, it's very unlikely he will ever play for Manchester United again but that's a decision for the club in the summer, right now we only really have the footballing side to speak about surely?
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The club still need to formally make a decision. Either way whether they decide to place him in the first team squad or sell him their will be a significant impact on our summer transfer dealings. I think the football performances are still a relevant factor for discussion. As the quality of his on field play will determine his value and impact our recruitment and budget considerations.Yeah, good idea, let's whitewash the vile allegations.
AngeloHenriquez
Full Member
Drop your bias for 5 minutes as even in your scenario you suddenly assume it's "Fanboys", why would it not equally be people pointing out flaws in his game?So ignoring the allegations and just having a thread where only fanboys will discuss how great they think he is, that's not whitewashing? Hmm.
The reason it wouldn't be whitewashing is I'm not proposing we deliberately conceal for the purposes of not making him look bad or to "Ignore" it but sense and this thread is proof that it gets us nowhere and some people end up saying ridiculous things that get themselves in trouble, 99% of the living world know and accept that what he did was wrong and whether or not the police prosecuted him or took him to trial is separate from whether a crime was committed but either way it's not going anywhere other than in a circle and bringing out the worst in people.
Drop my anti abuser bias? Nope.Drop your bias for 5 minutes as even in your scenario you suddenly assume it's "Fanboys", why would it not equally be people pointing out flaws in his game?
The reason it wouldn't be whitewashing is I'm not proposing we deliberately conceal for the purposes of not making him look bad or to "Ignore" it but sense and this thread is proof that it gets us nowhere and some people end up saying ridiculous things that get themselves in trouble, 99% of the living world know and accept that what he did was wrong and whether or not the police prosecuted him or took him to trial is separate from whether a crime was committed but either way it's not going anywhere other than in a circle and bringing out the worst in people.
The football discussion in this thread is fuelled by fawning. Anyone else is too disgusted by him to critique how he kicks a ball.
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Surely the club have made their decision. He’s out on loan. Come summer he will be punted to the highest bidder. He’s not playing for United again. Hopefully he plays very well and we get a decent amount for him come the summer.The club still need to formally make a decision. Either way whether they decide to place him in the first team squad or sell him their will be a significant impact on our summer transfer dealings. I think the football performances are still a relevant factor for discussion. As the quality of his on field play will determine his value and impact our recruitment and budget considerations.
flameinthesun
Full Member
That will be inherent to the thread due to it being a general discussion about Greenwood and the inherent nature of the way the situation has unfolded. There are similar blurring of lines (not about consent) in the Israel/Palestine thread for example as well as others where sensitive topics are being discussed. The key is whether arguments etc are blowing over into supporting SA, bashing SA survivors etc if so then those posters should be banned (again if they are breaking rules). The alternative is to just have a performance only thread, however, you don't want that as you want any discussion regarding his performances to be in the context of the allegations/case. Which is fair, however, if you want that then you have to accept all views of the allegations/case (again within forum rules).Oh, it's not just the circular pattern, it's the themes therein. Any thread where consent is blurred and rape is mitigated is a bad look in my opinion.
For me, closing this thread would be the an exception rather than the rule as there are other threads with sensitive topics with discussions (that have sometimes spilled over to posters getting banned). This is no different.
Yeah, if football is discussed, it will be discussed in context.The club still need to formally make a decision. Either way whether they decide to place him in the first team squad or sell him their will be a significant impact on our summer transfer dealings. I think the football performances are still a relevant factor for discussion. As the quality of his on field play will determine his value and impact our recruitment and budget considerations.
flameinthesun
Full Member
Which is your opinion, just as mine is that its more out of curiosity for his talent. Both statements, doesn't mean they are true.The football discussion in this thread is fuelled by fawning. Anyone else is too disgusted by him to critique how he kicks a ball.
Vault Dweller
Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
This sums up my pov to be honest.Drop my anti abuser bias? Nope.
The football discussion in this thread is fuelled by fawning. Anyone else is too disgusted by him to critique how he kicks a ball.
Yeah, I'd move it the feck out of the football forum altogether and discuss it as an alleged rape issue.That will be inherent to the thread due to it being a general discussion about Greenwood and the inherent nature of the way the situation has unfolded. There are similar blurring of lines (not about consent) in the Israel/Palestine thread for example as well as others where sensitive topics are being discussed. The key is whether arguments etc are blowing over into supporting SA, bashing SA survivors etc if so then those posters should be banned (again if they are breaking rules). The alternative is to just have a performance only thread, however, you don't want that as you want any discussion regarding his performances to be in the context of the allegations/case. Which is fair, however, if you want that then you have to accept all views of the allegations/case (again within forum rules).
For me, closing this thread would be the an exception rather than the rule as there are other threads with sensitive topics with discussions (that have sometimes spilled over to posters getting banned). This is no different.
As it stands if there is a discussion it's this thread.
No, it's not an opinion. You have your view and I have mine but the football discussion is not objective, and obviously fuelled by those who are not appalled by him.Which is your opinion, just as mine is that its more out of curiosity for his talent. Both statements, doesn't mean they are true.
flameinthesun
Full Member
Again you'd be making an exception. Your desire is for anything related to his football or performances to be censured. That's why you don't want both separate performance and general thread for him and I'm gathering neither a football thread for him, as you do not want anyone discussing his performance. Which is your stance, thats fair. However, whether you like it or not he's a United player out on loan, there is an interest in his performances and this is a United forum. You should not censure discussion on his performances just because you don't like it. By all means ban those that are breaking forum rules, however, closing threads or shutting down discussions on how a united player is performing on loan for me is not right.Yeah, I'd move it the feck out of the football forum altogether and discuss it as an alleged rape issue.
As it stands if there is a discussion it's this thread.
It is opinion, I've posted regularly about his performances and when I challenge people on showing posters that have broken rules etc there's no reply or I get shown the one user whose been banned when there have been many more discussing his performances rationally. The reality is he's a talented footballer, that has not changed. He's going to have games where he looks good/great, when discussing him as a player breaking through you are going to talk about how he looked like a worldie, guess what? That's part and parcel of discussing a player's performance. On the fawning I personally don't think there are posters going overboard with fawning, however, if you think people are overrating him fair enough, keep the same energy for those who were saying he was overrated as a youngster. Either way, that's part and parcel of a player performance thread.No, it's not an opinion. You have your view and I have mine but the football discussion is not objective, and obviously fuelled by those who are not appalled by him.
To me it seems you just want a thread where the only discussion allowed is to confirm that Greenwood is scum etc etc. If that's the case maybe someone else who is able to be level headed should manage this thread.
Again you'd be making an exception. Your desire is for anything related to his football or performances to be censured. That's why you don't want both separate performance and general thread for him and I'm gathering neither a football thread for him, as you do not want anyone discussing his performance. Which is your stance, thats fair. However, whether you like it or not he's a United player out on loan, there is an interest in his performances and this is a United forum. You should not censure discussion on his performances just because you don't like it. By all means ban those that are breaking forum rules, however, closing threads or shutting down discussions on how a united player is performing on loan for me is not right.
It is opinion, I've posted regularly about his performances and when I challenge people on showing posters that have broken rules etc there's no reply or I get shown the one user whose been banned when there have been many more discussing his performances rationally. The reality is he's a talented footballer, that has not changed. He's going to have games where he looks good/great, when discussing him as a player breaking through you are going to talk about how he looked like a worldie, guess what? That's part and parcel of discussing a player's performance. On the fawning I personally don't think there are posters going overboard with fawning, however, if you think people are overrating him fair enough, keep the same energy for those who were saying he was overrated as a youngster. Either way, that's part and parcel of a player performance thread.
To me it seems you just want a thread where the only discussion allowed is to confirm that Greenwood is scum etc etc. If that's the case maybe someone else who is able to be level headed should manage this thread.
No, you're wrong. I don't want any thread.
If there is a thread it's this one, where the football chat is in context.
On his loan, whether you like it or not it 100% nothing to do with football. He is as much exiled as he is on loan. He is a United asset, more than a player.
My opinion and your opinion is irrelevant to the fact that the football discussion is fuelled by people who are not appalled by MG. Just read the thread. The dissenters would be less likely to engage in a football-only thread as we have seen.
Nice that we have your consent to ban users breaking the rules.
MancunianAngels
Full Member
We should have agreed a mutual termination in the summer.Surely the club have made their decision. He’s out on loan. Come summer he will be punted to the highest bidder. He’s not playing for United again. Hopefully he plays very well and we get a decent amount for him come the summer.
It would have avoided another circus this summer and allowed us to concentrate on everything else.
flameinthesun
Full Member
The football-only thread was fine and did its job, what resulted in its closing was those who didn't want his performances discussed or didn't like that people were talking about his talents etc or "fawning" as you put it throwing their toys out the pram.The same thing that happened in that thread is happening here, there are load of posters that don't want discussions on his performances etc and are kicking up a fuss. Which based on how some posters and off memory yourself (I maybe wrong) celebrated its closure in the mains probably would be happy if the same happened to this one.Just read the thread. The dissenters would be less likely to engage in a football-only thread as we have seen.
Whilst I have remained agnostic to his return, you've seen that a good portion of this forum would be fine with him returning, so if they want to discuss what it would look like if he put in good performances and returned to the squad, whilst not breaking forum rules (and of course being sensitive to the topic) they should be allowed to. This thread should not be run based on how you feel about the topic.
Fridge chutney
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Watching him in this thread last night was like watch a slow-moving train wreck. I was too tired to respond (and the posts were so alarming that i wanted to address them) but i figured he would be banned by the time i came back to this thread the next day, and that much better posters than i would have already called him out. I was right on both counts.My god you truly are an awful poster. If your opinions on Ronaldo weren't bad enough, now your in here spouting this shite.
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Why would the club terminate? Hes potentially a very valuable sale. Anything from 20-50m. The main circus is on here. He won’t play for United again it’s all money now one way or other. But we cannot just write off a potential return of this magnitude.We should have agreed a mutual termination in the summer.
It would have avoided another circus this summer and allowed us to concentrate on everything else.
Slops
has Adobe Premiere and too much time on his hands
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(in a bad way) sure made me retch.My god you truly are an awful poster. If your opinions on Ronaldo weren't bad enough, now your in here spouting this shite.
sepulturite
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Yep I agree(in a bad way) sure made me retch.
padzilla
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Couldn't agree less. The charges don't come into it at all, as you say. But the footage that's out there absolutely does and there has been no alternative reason supplied for what the footage is.We've had that conversation multiple times. Whatever happened, his partner has taken a decision to be with him and the authorities couldn't charge him, not just because she retracted, but because according to them, new evidence came to light.
I am all for thinking a lot of things about him but we can't force a grown up adult (his partner) to have her own choices/decisions overwritten because we don't like it. That's not something we do for anything else in our society. Accordingly, if she thinks he deserves a second chance and is happy with him, then we should let them be. That includes playing for United. It has nothing to do with the charges because again, the authorities didn't charge him at the end.
The reason being that no plausible alternative explanation does exist.
Until that is provided then it's only right he doesn't play for us again.
There should be a much higher treshold for what's acceptable to being able to represent Man United than the treshold to simply avoid a criminal charge.
It only did its job if doing its job was ignoring the opinions of lots of people and just chatting as if the club hadn't effectively kicked him out.The football-only thread was fine and did its job, what resulted in its closing was those who didn't want his performances discussed or didn't like that people were talking about his talents etc or "fawning" as you put it throwing their toys out the pram.The same thing that happened in that thread is happening here, there are load of posters that don't want discussions on his performances etc and are kicking up a fuss. Which based on how some posters and off memory yourself (I maybe wrong) celebrated its closure in the mains probably would be happy if the same happened to this one.
Whilst I have remained agnostic to his return, you've seen that a good portion of this forum would be fine with him returning, so if they want to discuss what it would look like if he put in good performances and returned to the squad, whilst not breaking forum rules (and of course being sensitive to the topic) they should be allowed to. This thread should not be run based on how you feel about the topic.
On the bolded bit, I have terrible news for you. And it's that this is not a democracy, it's a private forum that a few of us admins and mods help to run smoothly. We managed well enough for you to decide to join.
On the kicking up a fuss, yes, proudly and absolutely.
And as I have said before, I'd echo the club and not mention the scumbag, so yes, if this thread that I didn't want opened, was closed, yes I'd be happy.
On your impartiality. If you're fooling anyone, it's yourself.
No.Isn't the other alternative to ban any discussion on his "Non football" issues, speaking purely about the performances and vigilantly patrol any discussion that threatens to curtail it, removing posters etc from that thread that can't speak specifically about the performance as it's shown that speaking about non football issues results in a circle of stupidity.
Slops
has Adobe Premiere and too much time on his hands
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It's definitely the case that no one is going to have their mind changed by the opposing opinion at this point. At least not many people - so maybe the debate is circular pointlessness now.
But I'll still be damned if wild nonsense like the stuff RedRonaldo actually decided to hit 'post reply' on last night goes unchallenged, whether I think their mind is going to change or not.
Still scratching my head over that diatribe.
But I'll still be damned if wild nonsense like the stuff RedRonaldo actually decided to hit 'post reply' on last night goes unchallenged, whether I think their mind is going to change or not.
Still scratching my head over that diatribe.
cafecillos
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It was incredible really, and was getting even worse with each clarification. It's also genuinely concerning to think about the women he may actually have sexual relations with in real life.It's definitely the case that no one is going to have their mind changed by the opposing opinion at this point. At least not many people - so maybe the debate is circular pointlessness now.
But I'll still be damned if wild nonsense like the stuff RedRonaldo actually decided to hit 'post reply' on last night goes unchallenged, whether I think their mind is going to change or not.
Still scratching my head over that diatribe.
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Move to the general forum under current events. DoneYeah, I'd move it the feck out of the football forum altogether and discuss it as an alleged rape issue.
As it stands if there is a discussion it's this thread.
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You have a seriously warped understanding of consent.This actually happens to my friend before. His girlfriend literally giving him unconsensual blow job while he was still asleep, but not a second he thought his girlfriend was raping him (in a bad way), but of course he did joke with me that his girlfriend likes to rape him out of nowhere, and he seems to enjoy it at the end. It’s perhaps something some lovers might sometimes do to spice things up I guess. It’s not always the case of either black or white when the parties involved are in ongoing sexual relationships. That’s why I thought it would be interesting to bring this up here.
It is also completely irrelevant to the case at hand.
She’s on recording saying no. That’s enough.
sepulturite
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Not just sexual relations, any kind of relationship with a woman to be honest. I have to wonder how people with this kind of mindset treat the women in their life.It was incredible really, and was getting even worse with each clarification. It's also genuinely concerning to think about the women he may actually have sexual relations with in real life.
Stacks
Full Member
7 goals and 5 assists in 1760 mins (19.5 games worth) is pretty good considering he was out for nearly 2 years. More impact than our wide forwards this season.All this chat about him and he's not exactly ripped up trees has he. 5 goals and 5 assists.
Police and CPS also had this information along with a more detailed investigative powers than yourself and the conclusion was that they and Man Utd did not conclude he was either. You could get sued for slanderSome people here are looking for any nuance or technicality possible to give this guy the benefit of the doubt. A couple of them would make pretty good lawyers.
We will never know any more information than we have now. Speculating about some mysterious new evidence is a literal blind alley.
What we have is the visuals and audio. That information is what I make my decision on that Greenwood is a rapist and woman beater.
This thread is obviously not about trying to convince anyone else to change their opinion, so believe in nuances and technicalities if you want, I will believe that he is a rapist and you are rapist apologists.
That's really not true - there has been plenty of good discussion about his performances, whether his current level would be good enough for United, whether he is doing enough off the ball for the team etc.The football discussion in this thread is fuelled by fawning. Anyone else is too disgusted by him to critique how he kicks a ball.
It just gets lost in the non-footballing stuff.
Note there were also several posters who said they didn't want him back but were still interested in following how he was doing on loan too.
This is a football forum after all.
Belisarius
New Member
You really should step away and let someone else moderate this thread. You have completely lost the plot.Drop my anti abuser bias? Nope.
The football discussion in this thread is fuelled by fawning. Anyone else is too disgusted by him to critique how he kicks a ball.
That's really not true - there has been plenty of good discussion about his performances, whether his current level would be good enough for United, whether he is doing enough off the ball for the team etc.
It just gets lost in the non-footballing stuff.
Note there were also several posters who said they didn't want him back but were still interested in following how he was doing on loan too.
This is a football forum after all.
Led by fawning I said. If not for the fawners, the thread would die.
Yeah, I know it's a football forum. I can also state the obvious. He's also a player the club are most probably wash their hands of and necer mention.
How so?You really should step away and let someone else moderate this thread. You have completely lost the plot.
This is not the first time you've chipped in not happy with the moderation. Sadly it comes with the forum.
Peter van der Gea
Likes Pineapple on well done Steak
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They've only decided the evidence is not enough to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. I make my decisions the balance of probabilities, as do the civil courts, so he'd have to firstly prove it was indeed slander, which they wouldn't be able to do with the available evidence, then would have to prove that I was aware it was slander, which it only could be if I had access to this mysterious missing audio.7 goals and 5 assists in 1760 mins (19.5 games worth) is pretty good considering he was out for nearly 2 years. More impact than our wide forwards this season.
Police and CPS also had this information along with a more detailed investigative powers than yourself and the conclusion was that they and Man Utd did not conclude he was either. You could get sued for slander
Though, I would encourage them to try, I'd love to see them try and prove it was slander
Dr. Dwayne
Self proclaimed tagline king.
The unfortunate part is it wouldn't be you that would be pulled up in a legal sense (if they were so inclined) but Niall and the caf.They've only decided the evidence is not enough to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. I make my decisions the balance of probabilities, as do the civil courts, so he'd have to firstly prove it was indeed slander, which they wouldn't be able to do with the available evidence, then would have to prove that I was aware it was slander, which it only could be if I had access to this mysterious missing audio.
Though, I would encourage them to try, I'd love to see them try and prove it was slander
The risk of legal shite is another reason to shut the thread. Good point folks.