No. You can’t use transfer windows to have a dig at Ten Hag when the club have failed in two of the four. That’s on the club, not him.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager / awaiting clarity from the club over his position
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
You don't think the club worked together with Ten Hag on how to spend the budget, and the consequences of ffp? Or do you think the club kept the budget hidden, and just let him spend and spend until there's nothing left?
My point is that the club hasn't failed in the winter windows. They couldn't really do stuff in the winter because there was no transfer budget left. This will have been known in the summer and EtH surely was at least aware of this and likely involved in this strategic decision (and it makes a lot of sense actually because in the summer you have more time to integrate new signings than in the winter). This is not a dig on EtH nor on the club from me.
But I believe it's absolutely fair to say that the budget of four windows was spent for EtH's squad and any criticism of the state of that squad should be seen as such.
The club has fecked up the finances. Not Ten Hag. You understand that right?
Nah. agree to disagree then.
There’s been 4 windows but he’s only been able to utilise 2.
Try answering his question and making reasonable inferences about how the budget ended up being non existent for January of last and this season rather than just dismissing him please. Ten Hag didn't wake up January 1st of the last two years to texts from Murtough going "sorry, feck all left", don't be ridiculous.
What point are you making?
Yes, it is absolutely on club, but TH did have his say on transfers. If you spend 100m on Antony, player you trained for 2 years that is on you. You have been more than aware that he is not 100m player and that you should spend that money somewhere else.
Absolutely. Huge question marks on that.
He didn’t agree the price though, or wages, and this is again where our set up fails.
Ten Hag shouldn’t be selecting the players.
Yes, we have managed one convincing win during this revival and that against a west ham side that got destroyed by arsenal the following game.
Yeah I understand what you mean, just was pointing out that saying something as absurd as “he could win the double and people would still want him gone” doesn’t contribute to anything. As someone who currently wants Ten Hag fired, if he won the fecking league Id be dancing like a young child and wanting statues built of him and I’m quite sure everyone else would agree.
Really no point engaging with you.
The irony
..of what?The irony
The goal difference in the PL over 62 Games tells me all I need to know about ETH he’s had enough time and money to get it right. Yes last season he had a good win rate but that’s now declined to 58%
P62 W36 D8 L18 GS 91 GC76 (+15)
His teams in PL struggle to score and win mostly by 1 goal, he’s lost far too many PL games 29% loss rate is beyond poor and he’s had far too many bad days at the office, Bournemouth(H), Palace(H), Forrest(A), Brighton(H) had we taken 10 points rather than 0 points from those games this season we would be on 51 points and in a Title race, this is why he has to go unless he can win 10 or 11 of the last 14 games and end up with 71-73 points, which is highly unlikely with how inconsistent his teams are, and only then would he guarantee CL football otherwise he must be sacked.
A match from the past..
Watch how Wolves sliced us.. This is the main problem with ETH set-ups. How can this be cured? Wolves had 23 goals attempts. Watch them below.
Also we have our full squad available for this game, so injury excuse doesn't hold.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/aWShk9cXjUScyohz/?mibextid=w8EBqM
Watch how Wolves sliced us.. This is the main problem with ETH set-ups. How can this be cured? Wolves had 23 goals attempts. Watch them below.
Also we have our full squad available for this game, so injury excuse doesn't hold.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/aWShk9cXjUScyohz/?mibextid=w8EBqM
It was a shocking performance.
It doesn’t mean it’s incurable.
Time and personnel will solve these issues.
That's the issue though, I'm not sure it will because those issues are primarily because of the tactics. Until Ten Hag accepts these tactics need adjustments then we'll continue to get outplayed.
I think theres a bigger element to this. I was at that wolves game, we were poor and lucky to get anything out of it.
But start of season form can throw up all sorts of stuff in a normal season. Some teams start slower than others. Asides from that, I personally think our squad was still exhausted from season before and stupid USA tour that did us no favours.
The injury’s that happened very shortly into the season were not a coincidence. Like Marinez coming back and getting injured again, I think that a lot of our players came into the season with bodies not fully repaired.
It seems like other clubs have been having similar issues which suggests the World Cup season really took its toll on teams.
Start of season we lose Greenwood, have Anthony trial and Sancho stuff. Wouldn’t have been the most settled dressingroom coming into the season. We had no fit striker for few weeks and it looks like for whatever reason Rashford was not happy for months. So our best forward from last season was struggling with something.
Look at City struggling without Rodri, even a team with ridiculous resources can be knocked back alot.
Again, regardless of whether ETH works out, people really aren’t factoring everything in to explain why we might have been off so much. The default is that it must be the manager, even though we had one of our best periods since 2013 , last season , when there was no drama.
And for all the complaints about Weghorst, we won most of the games where he played most of his minutes. Whether you think Weghorst didn’t play much of a role in those wins, ETH managed us to the wins with him in the squad.
Like you have said, if this was just a generic season and we played like we played, I just couldn’t defend ETH as there really isn’t a defence if you look at our results and performances in isolation.
I think the problem is more to do with the actual tactics mate. We're playing with Kobbie and Casemiro and have still managed to concede 60 shots in the last 3 games. He wants one of the midfielders to vacate the space and join the attack alongside Bruno and its creating massive gaps in between our phases of play.
I think this will eventually end up with Ten Hag losing his job and I wouldn't be surprised to see us getting absolutely battered by the end of this season by a better team. You just can't go on conceding this many shots per game.
Wasn't this the first game of the season? Still holding on to it? We've not been good this season at all, but surely more recent of shiteness would make more sense.
We had our full squad, yes, but still first game of the season, its not shocking for a team in the opening game to not be up to speed, and we clearly weren't.
We have experienced the same issues in basically every game since then so the managers inability to rectify them is pretty damning
I'm not defending him, just think its silly to point to a game so long ago, when we've been shit in many other more recent games.
Fair enough..
Explain how time will mitigate such issues.
Personnel I believe is 100% an issue with what we have and what we don't have. Especially how our midfield personnel is structured.
Then again, our players are getting an year old by the time we will be competing for major honors next season. The time you allude to is like a mirage really.
Yeah I can see what you mean in that the truth can become lost on the strength of trying to make a point. I’m in the see what happens till the end of the season brigade as I believe the managers intentions are the right ones to bring long term success. However like the managers since Ferguson he has having to deal with the expensive failings of the previous regimes.
Whoever the manger next season will have some good pieces to work with.
It still is 4 windows though. It's upto the club and Manager to best utilise the funds, if that means going all in each Summer and refuse business in January then that's their decision.
But that doesn't mean you can wipe away the two January windows as null and void. It's the club's strategy and that includes ETH.
Whether you think 4 windows is enough time to judge a Manager is the question. If no, then how many and do we give every Manager that same prerequisite? Why didn't all others get that luxury?
I'm of the opinion that with a proper football structure in place we allow and back their decision. If that means giving him another chance, then fair enough. If that means sacking him then I hope those backing ETH, will back the next Manager and not be negative just because their man got sacked.
Either way, I'm hopeful of the future. First time in years.
Tactics that can be worked on in training with time and personnel. How else do these things develop but by having the right players having time to practice?
I agree with you here.
Bolded bit comes off a bit passive aggressive not sure you meant it to be but heads up.
I agree we have to develop our approach further which again takes the right personnel and time for a team to work together to understand the tendencies and positions of one another to minimise the space. It also requires good CBs in 1v1 duels which we’ve had terrible luck with in terms of injuries.
I agree if we don’t improve this when we have more personnel back and with time then absolutely Ten Hag should be shown the doo
See above.
Time = time on training and matches together with a reasonably consistent first XI.
Personnel - Having the players capable of playing on the half turn in a higher press (Mount, Mainoo) and future squad additions that work within this style not in conflict to it.
Erik Ten Hag isn’t “their man” he’s the clubs current manager.
It’s not about a **** of the manger it’s just being understanding he’s been dealt a poor hand relative to the other top sides. His hand is improving the more INEOS are involved and so for me the excuses or barriers to success will be removed and as such expectations will be higher.
So for me I’m also very hopeful and maybe it’s Ten Hag who gets a chance to show what he can do with great people around him or maybe someone else it doesn’t really bother me I just won’t throw his aside just yet because of extenuating circumstances.
No passive aggressive nature intended at all, more a pint at the pub with friends kind of tone.
Now, so it means ETH hasn't had enough time in training or matches to have an imprint in this team?
Or even, when is the right point to now a manager has had enough time with a team?
How comes only us, we have a 3 year rebuilding process, in perpetuity.
I’m really looking forward to see what he can achieve under the new structure. You’d have to think getting another cb to play alongside Martinez will be a priority. And if Antony and Amad
No point in going for Potter if you’re gonna sack Ten Hag. Just look at what he was able to accomplish at Chelsea.
I don’t think anyone needs to worry about the ten hag IN brigade supporting any new manager coming in. It’s the Ten Hag OUT brigade you need to worry about if early results don’t go our way.
I'm not sure questioning a manager 18 months plus into a job and £400 million on players later is the same as calling for a manager to be sacked after a few early results.
I mean all our managers, bar Moyes, have been given two full seasons minimum.
Mourinho and Ole got a bit more than that. This is why I find those suggesting we sack Ten Hag, 18 months in, a little strange to say the least. It feels many are entrenched in that view and have tunnel vision regarding everything. Plenty of agenda posting to say the least.
I’m all for backing the decisions of INOES and those being appointed in the footballing structure. That I’ll agree on. If that means removing Ten Hag in the summer, so be it.
Between now and then though the constant crying, moaning and misery should be firmly knocked on the head. Its so tedious.
No worries then (hard to tell on here sometimes which is why I checked)
He’s had an imprint but to develop you do it in stages and it’s a process.Now, so it means ETH hasn't had enough time in training or matches to have an imprint in this team?
Or even, when is the right point to now a manager has had enough time with a team?
How comes only us, we have a 3 year rebuilding process, in perpetuity.
If your half turn, small space playing £55m signing, your best CB on the ball and off it, best LB who links the centre and left side of the pitch up and wins most of their 1v
1 duels and their back up are out as well as not having access to your only real striker early on then yeah it takes time.
I would say now that more players are back fit and we’ve seen the profile of midfielder (like Mainoo) who should suit the set up it should be reasonable to see an improvement in more aspects of our play.
For me I’ll look at the next 10 games and see if I can spot anything new. But to be clear we already do a lot of great things with and within the ball it’s just harder to spot if you don’t know what to look for.
It would be injustice if ten hag was to go the absolute baggage that he has had to deal with and still give us a trophy after 6 years and champions league football even this season with all the dramas and injuries to still be fighting for top four and bringing in three young guns for the future honestly it would be an absolute disgrace to get him out. I would definitely give the manager the time and the new structure for at least another season and i know he will succeed there's no one else that can do better in my opinion.
Not really, ETH has shown his level and top 4 and a smaller cup is the best we can hope for with him. I think people need to remember we're Manchester United one of the biggest clubs in the world and our ambitions should be bigger than getting top 4. ETH has had a lot of off-field problems to handle but some of that was brought on by himself e.g. Sancho and Ronaldo. He didn't get involved with Greenwood and the Antony situation didn't impact the team and came and went very fast.
ETH has yet to show us a style of play and the off-field drama isn't the reason for that. He's currently hanging on due to the fact we have good players who can provide moments of brilliance and that will run out sooner or later.
Why can other managers with less imprint their style of play on a team in a fraction of the time? Ange did it immediately and he lost Kane.
Because they had the players in the building to implement it and if they didn’t they signed them quickly:
Vicario (bought in)
Porro (already trialled on loan then bought)
Romero (already there)
van de Venn (bought in)
Udogie (already there and tracked on loan)
Sarr (already there)
Bissouma (already there
Kuluzevski (already there)
Maddison (bought in)
Son (already there)
Richarlison (already there)
Do any of those stand out as physically unable to perform a high line aggressive forward play style?
Dragusin* (bought to be a better back up than Dier)
Johnson (bought in as wing/fwd rotation)