Sam Kerr allegations - supporters twist themselves into knots

berbasloth4

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Innocent until proven guilty and at moment it’s all just he said she said but if it’s true and guilty she should get the same punishment that a white, Asian, mixed person would get.

regardless of the race the same crime has been committed..

I always wonder how racists in team sport are accepted and allowed back in the changing rooms.
 

Plant0x84

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Dr. Dwayne said:
Other domestic violence cases? I mean, I'm not familiar with Ms. Solo's case but aren't these types of charges often dropped because the victim goes back to the offender making a conviction harder to achieve? And then suggest her struggles with alcohol and anger as some sort of mitigating circumstances and not wanting to label her seems a bit unequal.

But this thread isn't really about her so we should probably not carry this on too long.
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You’re right about that, but briefly the alleged domestic violence was against her half-sister and nephew. She was alleged to be drunk at the time, but she claims the nephew was the aggressor.
My point was simply that the statement ‘Solo is a domestic abuser’ didn’t seem to fit this particular case, especially as the charges were dropped.
 

Rood

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TheReligion said:
Why so?
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Partly to do with the unnecessary amount of time - the incident happened in Jan '23, how does it take over a year to charge for something which seems relatively simple? And then have to wait another full year for the actual trial

I know there is still a massive backlog in the legal system after COVID so surely they need to prioritise more serious crimes
 

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Plant0x84 said:
You’re right about that, but briefly the alleged domestic violence was against her half-sister and nephew. She was alleged to be drunk at the time, but she claims the nephew was the aggressor.
My point was simply that the statement ‘Solo is a domestic abuser’ didn’t seem to fit this particular case, especially as the charges were dropped.
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So, you're saying the degree of DV is lessened because it wasn't a romantic partner?

I just read an article on it. She seems like one hell of a scumbag.
https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story...-case-includes-reports-being-belligerent-jail

And it seems the case was dismissed because the witnesses didn't want to testify. Sounds familiar.

https://www.oregonlive.com/fifa-world-cup/2018/06/domestic_violence_case_against.html

So yeah, interesting contrast.
 

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While I really don't think that a non-white person abusing a white person on the basis of their whiteness can be compared to the reverse of such a situation, I feel it would be a positive social shift if we would treat the sort of classism that seems to be on display from Sam Kerr's comments and behaviour there in a similar way to how discrimination against race, religion, sexuality, etc. are treated.
 

Plant0x84

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Rood said:
I know there is still a massive backlog in the legal system after COVID so surely they need to prioritise more serious crimes
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This seems like a flawed argument. Surely for justice to be served every crime needs to be treated with the same due process? Crime is crime - and racially motivated hate crime is quite high profile right now, so I suspect this will move through the courts quickly.
On one hand I understand your point, but I keep coming back to the ‘white’ part of the insult being totally unnecessary. It’s racial, and we have laws against that kind of thing in the UK. If she really did say that, then Kerr must face justice and be held to account.
 

Rood

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Question marks over what exactly she said with different media reporting either 'stupid white bastard' or 'stupid white pc'

Obviously she denies it anyway so we shouldn't even assume either was said

 

SER19

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Dunno about strict legal definitions but it seems a bit mad to use legislation intended to protect persecuted minorities to protect someone from a majority that has never had to deal with any sort of systemic persecution because of their ethnicity.

Doesn’t mean Sam Kerr isn’t a bad person, behaving badly, of course.
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I think that's a slippery slope - there are pockets in plenty of cities around the uk where a white person may well be in a minority. Should those pockets gradually change as demographics of areas often do, I don't think we should be using historical context to say, for example, that a young white kid on a huge estate cant be persecuted for being the white kid. If we are to accept an ever changing and increasingly diverse world, the law needs to be applied right across the board and not selectively. Very simply put, if it is true that she said that to a white officer, the intent, and racism in that situation is the exact same as had a white player said it to a black officer - one can only assume that his or her skin coloured bothered sam kerr, if she is guilty. It's a primitive, racist way of dealing with any situation, and if you start setting that selective precedent now, it might look stupid in 20-30 years. The world changes incredibly quickly.
 

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Plant0x84 said:
This seems like a flawed argument. Surely for justice to be served every crime needs to be treated with the same due process? Crime is crime - and racially motivated hate crime is quite high profile right now, so I suspect this will move through the courts quickly.
On one hand I understand your point, but I keep coming back to the ‘white’ part of the insult being totally unnecessary. It’s racial, and we have laws against that kind of thing in the UK. If she really did say that, then Kerr must face justice and be held to account.
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No it won't - the case won't be heard until February 2025! More than 2 years after the alleged offence took place which is absolutely daft

Note that Sam Kerr is of a majority white ethnic heritage with 3 out of 4 of her grandparents being white English/Irish and 1 is from India - interesting that people decide she is therefore 'non-white'.

Hypothetically if a white person calls a white cop 'a stupid white xxx' - is it racist?
 

Plant0x84

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Rood said:
Hypothetically if a white person calls a white cop 'a stupid white xxx' - is it racist?
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Yes. ‘Stupid’ is a derogatory term, and ‘white’ makes it racial.
FYI - I inferred nothing about Kerrs ethnicity. It doesn’t matter if it’s white on black, black on white, white on white or black on black. Racism is wrong and should be punished, whatever form it takes.
 

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Plant0x84 said:
Yes. ‘Stupid’ is a derogatory term, and ‘white’ makes it racial.
FYI - I inferred nothing about Kerrs ethnicity. It doesn’t matter if it’s white on black, black on white, white on white or black on black. Racism is wrong and should be punished, whatever form it takes.
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I don't agree and I actually think this way of thinking downgrades the real racism in the world
 

Plant0x84

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Rood said:
I don't agree and I actually think this way of thinking downgrades the real racism in the world
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What the hell is ‘real racism’??

The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism as “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group”

Last time I checked, Caucasian was a racial/ethnic group. There is no doubt that racism is most often perpetrated against black and ethnic minority people, but that fact doesn’t mean that a white person cannot be subject to racism. Just because it’s highly unusual doesn’t make it less racist.
 

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Plant0x84 said:
No, absolutely not.
But I think one incident of violence is different to a sustained campaign of control and violence which is what I think of as ‘domestic abuse’.
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Feels like a double standard. Her gender doesn't change the fact that she likely assaulted and emotionally abused her nephew and assaulted her sister, based on the police reports of the attending officers. And from the ESPN article it does not seem it was the first time she was emotionally abusive to her nephew.
 

Rood

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Plant0x84 said:
What the hell is ‘real racism’??
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Real racism is when you have to sit at the back of the bus, cant eat in a certain restaurant or dont get a job despite being the best candidate

It's certainly not a white person calling another white person 'stupid white ...' that's for sure - that's feck all in the grand scheme of things

And I never said a white person cant be subject to racism so I have no idea why you went down that route
 

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Rood said:
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Would referring to someone as a 'stupid white cop' be regarded as racially aggravated harassment towards a police officer? Deary me.

The word 'stupid' is a relatively mild insult, and 'white' serves as a racial identifier. Thus, the phrase 'stupid white cop' could be seen as racially insensitive and potentially offensive. However, in my opinion, to consider it as racially aggravated harassment seems quite exaggerated.
 

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SilentWitness said:
While there is a clear difference in the dynamics between calling an officer a white bastard instead of a brown/black etc. one, I wouldn't say its of no note at all. Any reference to race is odd and not needed.
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It may be clear but it is certainly misguided and handling it differently would be nothing but double standards.

Moreover, anyone who says "white bastard" will just as easily say "black bastard". The officer just happened to be white.
 

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This really looks like one of those case where the media blows it out of proportion because of who she is. It appears she got drunk and disorderly, and abused a police officer in the process. We don't know for sure what was actually said, but even if it was stupid white bastard, while referring to race, it is on the very mild end of the insult spectrum.

I'd expect that officer has had the same types of comments and worse hurled at him plenty of times when dealing with drunks. Yet I'd assume, they generally just charge them with something like drunk and disorderly and everyone moves on. Its only because of her profile that they are even bothering trying to charge her with anything more than that, and the fact that it then gets dragged through the courts for so long is just stupid.
 

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Rood said:
Personally I wouldn't try to justify it if that is what she said, note that she denies it so it's just allegations at the moment.

But there are serious questions about whether it's worth the time and resources to take this matter to court - I don't think it is.

Give her a fine and a warning, move on.
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Only the word "Bastard" that she disputes. Without the word bastard surely it isn't harassment (even if it was with the first accusation) so can't be racially aggravated harrasment?

The general consensus here is "Is that it?". The idea that a cop would have felt harassed by that is frankly ludicrous. A waste of Police and CPS time and money, not to mention distracting from the seriousness of actual racially aggravated harassment.

The satirical press are criticising her as Un-Australian for saying bastard rather than cnut :lol:
 

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antohan said:
Moreover, anyone who says "white bastard" will just as easily say "black bastard". The officer just happened to be white.
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Erm? I'd say Kerr's experience as a person of colour probably means she wouldn't.
 

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Plant0x84 said:
Yes. ‘Stupid’ is a derogatory term, and ‘white’ makes it racial.
FYI - I inferred nothing about Kerrs ethnicity. It doesn’t matter if it’s white on black, black on white, white on white or black on black. Racism is wrong and should be punished, whatever form it takes.
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Racism is more complicated than just flagging specific words as "Racist", it is absolutely contextual and depends to a degree upon balances of power and privilege.

One white passing person (I'm not sure how she identifies, but she's white passing and 3/4 grandparents are white) calling another a "stupid white bastard" in a country with a significant white majority, where the majority of significant national institutions (e.g. policeforce, legal system, education system, health system, military etc etc) are majority white (and often have long established histories of institutional racism against people of non-white heritage) is not racist discrimination. It's stupid and unnecessary, and her behaviour was clearly poor - but I really don't think it meets the bar of "racially aggravated harassment"
 

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Rood said:
No

I actually assumed she was part Aboriginal - turns out she is one quarter Indian (from her paternal side) and actually 75% of White English/Australian heritage

So if she's 75% white then is it racist to call someone a 'stupid white bastard' anyway? The plot thickens
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Her Mum has Philippino ancestry as well
 

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SecondFig said:
Racism is more complicated than just flagging specific words as "Racist", it is absolutely contextual and depends to a degree upon balances of power and privilege.

One white passing person (I'm not sure how she identifies, but she's white passing and 3/4 grandparents are white) calling another a "stupid white bastard" in a country with a significant white majority, where the majority of significant national institutions (e.g. policeforce, legal system, education system, health system, military etc etc) are majority white (and often have long established histories of institutional racism against people of non-white heritage) is not racist discrimination. It's stupid and unnecessary, and her behaviour was clearly poor - but I really don't think it meets the bar of "racially aggravated harassment"
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100% agree.
 

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berbasloth4 said:
regardless of the race the same crime has been committed.
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Except Sam Kerr calling a white cop "A stupid white cop" (or even the claimed "Stupid White Bastard") in a predominantly white country is not the same as say a white supremacist calling a black cop "a black bastard". Context matters.
 
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SecondFig said:
Racism is more complicated than just flagging specific words as "Racist", it is absolutely contextual and depends to a degree upon balances of power and privilege.

One white passing person (I'm not sure how she identifies, but she's white passing and 3/4 grandparents are white) calling another a "stupid white bastard" in a country with a significant white majority, where the majority of significant national institutions (e.g. policeforce, legal system, education system, health system, military etc etc) are majority white (and often have long established histories of institutional racism against people of non-white heritage) is not racist discrimination. It's stupid and unnecessary, and her behaviour was clearly poor - but I really don't think it meets the bar of "racially aggravated harassment"
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This is it in a nutshell, and trying to paint this as some sort of racially motivated harassment is pretty idiotic.
 

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top1whoisman said:
Of course not. But when the dynamic has been the same for hundreds of years, it takes a long time to change.

And yes, of course when it comes to individual people, the dynamics vary.

Doesn’t change the fact that the structures when it comes to say recruitment, housing etc. are very much in line with the same dynamic I’m talking about.
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As you say that’s correct in general looking at the overall population and categories within. But the dynamic is well, dynamic and hence differs when you go to the individual level which is what this thread is about.
 

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SecondFig said:
Racism is more complicated than just flagging specific words as "Racist", it is absolutely contextual and depends to a degree upon balances of power and privilege.

One white passing person (I'm not sure how she identifies, but she's white passing and 3/4 grandparents are white) calling another a "stupid white bastard" in a country with a significant white majority, where the majority of significant national institutions (e.g. policeforce, legal system, education system, health system, military etc etc) are majority white (and often have long established histories of institutional racism against people of non-white heritage) is not racist discrimination. It's stupid and unnecessary, and her behaviour was clearly poor - but I really don't think it meets the bar of "racially aggravated harassment"
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Kerr is a millionnaire many times over with a job that many people do as a pastime. She has a considerable following and a high profile, particularly in Australia.

Being a beat cop, on the other hand, is one of the most dangerous jobs going and doesn't pay nearly so well as it should.

Are you saying that the cop has 'power and privilege' or have I misread your post.
 
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TheReligion

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Just going to leave this here regarding the law in the UK for such offences (racially or religiously aggravated)


An offence is racially aggravated for the purposes of sections 29 to 32 below if—

(a)at the time of committing the offence, or immediately before or after doing so, the offender demonstrates towards the victim of the offence hostility based on the victim’s membership (or presumed membership) of a racial group; or

(b)the offence is motivated (wholly or partly) by hostility towards members of a racial group based on their membership of that group.

(2)In subsection (1)(a) above—

  • “membership”, in relation to a racial group, includes association with members of that group;
  • “presumed” means presumed by the offender.
(3)It is immaterial for the purposes of paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (1) above whether or not the offender’s hostility is also based, to any extent, on—

(a)the fact or presumption that any person or group of persons belongs to any religious group; or

(b)any other factor not mentioned in that paragraph.

(4)In this section “racial group” means a group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins.
 

SilentWitness

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antohan said:
It may be clear but it is certainly misguided and handling it differently would be nothing but double standards.

Moreover, anyone who says "white bastard" will just as easily say "black bastard". The officer just happened to be white.
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Not really. That's just ignoring the context and the dynamics at play which need to be assessed when judging these cases.
 

Rood

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Wibble said:
Her Mum has Philippino ancestry as well
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I did see that mentioned online but doesn't seem to be backed up by more trustworthy sources but I suppose it could be somewhere further back on the family tree:

"And there is the fact that Sam might not have ended up in Australia at all had her ancestors not upped sticks decades before she was born.

Roxanne’s father hails from Cork in Ireland — born in 1931, he recently turned 90, making him the oldest of 101 (yes, 101) grandchildren — and her mother’s side are from England.

Kerr’s grandmother on her maternal side was the only child of six to be born in Australia as both families emigrated by ship — “It took forever and I suppose half of them were convicts,” says Roxanne — landing in Freemantle, near Perth, with a £10 stipend."

https://theathletic.com/2586125/202...rr-a-superstar-with-elite-sport-in-her-blood/
 

Plant0x84

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SecondFig said:
Racism is more complicated than just flagging specific words as "Racist", it is absolutely contextual and depends to a degree upon balances of power and privilege.
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Agree, of course it is more complicated but that still doesn’t mean a white person cannot be subjected to racism.
The power and privilege doesn’t have to be from being a racial majority.
 

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The fact she threw up in someone’s taxi and expected them to just clean it up for free, says a lot about her.
 

Wibble

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Rood said:
I did see that mentioned online but doesn't seem to be backed up by more trustworthy sources but I suppose it could be somewhere further back on the family tree:

"And there is the fact that Sam might not have ended up in Australia at all had her ancestors not upped sticks decades before she was born.

Roxanne’s father hails from Cork in Ireland — born in 1931, he recently turned 90, making him the oldest of 101 (yes, 101) grandchildren — and her mother’s side are from England.

Kerr’s grandmother on her maternal side was the only child of six to be born in Australia as both families emigrated by ship — “It took forever and I suppose half of them were convicts,” says Roxanne — landing in Freemantle, near Perth, with a £10 stipend."

https://theathletic.com/2586125/202...rr-a-superstar-with-elite-sport-in-her-blood/
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She and her Mum have spoken about it a few times - fairly well known here.
 

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Plant0x84 said:
It’s implied by the many posts in this thread who claim the phrase ‘stupid white bastard’ isn’t ’real racism’.
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In this context it isn't. If the white person being abuse was in a predominantly non-white country it probably would have been. Actual racism requires a discriminated against/diadvantaged/disempowered party or target.

Of course it is unwise to mention colour or ethnicity at all but the charges sound like a total was of time and resources because it sounds like they are entirely disproportionate to the reported events.

duffer said:
Who in this thread had said that a white person cannot be subject to racism?
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They can of course. But this case doesn't seem like it.
 
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