Would certainly be a statement by SJR if he had dissenting women players physically threatened.Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
Would certainly be a statement by SJR if he had dissenting women players physically threatened.We'll see.
Never watched it, chief.Someone’s been binging on too much Succession
No need when we have the Glazer children, or indeed Martin Edwards.
The biggest statement would be hiring somebody who threatened his partner with rape if she wouldn't have sex with him. Then demanding 'it's either him or you' of your staff.
You are naive or worse if you can't fathom how coercive that is, or could become.
I doubt any statement would be explicit. Just hire a firm to 'look into' maternity legislation or somesuch. Rejig the injury room with lesser personnel. Limit access to services, insurance etc. Warn Skinners replacement, or the man himself, of who the 'troublemakers' are.
Then announce a new transfer or progress on 'Wembleh'.
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I’m not so sure Rashford will ever leave United, and although I hate to be the bearer of grim predictions it seems more likely Garnacho will go to Real than Rashford going anywhere.
But hopefully you’re right and I’m wrong.
You ask whether there's a victim and then go on to say that 'his only victim has forgiven him'. So it seems like even you think that's is a victim.Sense a bit of sarcasm here.
Greenwood needs us more than we’ll ever need him. He doesn’t give anything that is remarkably spectacular relative to the players we have now. He will be another attacking option that will have good and bad games. I feel a lot of us are re-writing history about how faired when he was playing for United. He was a good player but by no means irreplaceable.
Not sure about that. Garnacho's been a lot better on the right this season than he has been on the left.
Not sure if serious
Not sure if seriousSense a bit of sarcasm here.
Thread title: Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
Not sure if serious
There's not a significant campaign from victims of sexual assault to legalise sexual assault, where as there is for sex workers and the legalisation of sex work.
There's significant problems with sex work and how it is regulated in this country (and it sounds even worse in NI by your description) but to casually bundle it in with crimes like physical assault and rape is extremely disrespectful to sex workers and their efforts to make the profession safer.
True in a progressive utopia, I would fully support legislative change around sex work in general, as with drugs the solution is in governance as opposed to criminalisation, in my view.
However until that is the case the actual reality of sex work in the UK is one that is dominated by trafficking (non consensual) deceit and abuse, up to and including quite horrific abuses, imprisonment, physical/sexual abuse, financial control etc. - again please read the data.
The vast majority of sex workers are not willing participants in the current model - those that are and any other interested party can and should campaign for a better situation but as it stands that is not the norm.
Physical assault and rape are completely prevalent within sex work, so unfortunately they sit quite naturally in that realm, despite obvious and massive differences to when they occur domestically.
I wouldn’t naturally couch them together but in the context of criminal/bad things footballers engage in they are all relevant, if not equal.
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https://decrimnow.org.uk/#:~:text=DECRIM NOW – National Campaign for Sex Workers' Rights
I'd suggest actually reading stuff that isn't a government publication and read the response to that report of the people involved. And again, you're reducing a complex environment into one simple state to defend what is clearly a problematic statement. Many women engage in sex work because they want to, bundling them in with victims of trafficking or sexual assault is absolutely disrespectful. Conflating Jenny Thompson with someone being blackmailed for a visa or someone being assaulted by their partner is borderline bad faith.
I'm sure there are instances when footballers have engaged in less than ethical sex work practices, but as you pointed out, those are distinct issues which sometimes occur within sex work. To bundle those all up into one is lazy and reductive.
Unless Wayne Rooney, for example, paid for sex with what he knew was an illegally trafficked (or otherwise coerced) prostitute, it's a false equivalence to compare this to Greenwood's intentional abuse.
Intent is absolute.
Well, thanks for letting us know.
None taken
I still think he's the best finisher we have. His technique of striking the ball with such power and accuracy is something you rarely see from any of our other players.
I know he's not scored many goals for Getafe but if you stick him in a Barca or Atletico team then I can see him scoring 20+ goals a season.
The vocal people involved, capable of and willing to share their view. Again the evidence suggests the significant majority are foreign national, often trafficked, non native speakers with serious mistrust of governmental or aid providing services. They are not Jenny Thompsons and Rooney is a passing example on a wide spectrum
I have read around the subject and I’m still of the opinion that the majority of sex work in the UK is not engaged in willingly. Whilst I fully agree as to the solutions I am engaging with the extremely negative and dangerous current realities. Organised crime, sexual/physical abuse, financial control, trafficking etc.
I am also not putting all these things on a level or calling them equal, I am referencing many things, all different, that are either illegal or potentially dangerous/abusive/supporting of abusive situations that exist is football/locker rooms.
I’m not equating Rooney and Greenwood or prostitution and domestic abuse, but they are all capable of being part of the same discussion around dressing rooms and ethics in football.
Agreed.
Every individual case will differ of course and context is everything. I don’t believe I compared Rooney to Greenwood, I highlight a myriad of issues that players have been known to engage with and been able to move on from without issue within clubs and dressing rooms. I don’t like that but it is the case. I’m not saying a sexual offence is the same as prostitution but they can be discussed within the locker room/football culture discussion, for me!
Fair enough, but we need to be careful when making equivalences. Intent is absolute.
What a bizarre imagination you have - I assume you realise that nothing like that is likely to happen
If players made it known they were against his return then I'm sure he won't be coming back, no one would jeopardise squad unity for the sake of 1 player
Seems likely (for the same reasons explained by others) his old teammates would accept him back, but we have no idea whether the Women's team were ever consulted last summer - Arnold did allude to some of the delays in announcing anything being due to the Women's World Cup though
One of the big things the ‘bring him back’ crowd are overlooking is the risk he does something awful again.
The tape showed what kind of person he is and these are rarely isolated incidents. It would be mad to stake the club’s reputation on someone so likely to cause another major incident.
The tape showed what kind of person he is and these are rarely isolated incidents. It would be mad to stake the club’s reputation on someone so likely to cause another major incident.
To be fair, the illegality of sex work enables the exploitation of the people involved. Like most vice laws, the zero tolerance approach is archaic, ineffective and creates more harmful conditions than a permissive approach would.
Domestic violence against women has already occurred. There's nothing 'bizarre' or 'imaginative' about it.
If the offender is reintegrated, it will produce a 'conform or leave' conundrum for staff, i.e. coercion. Even if the women's team have final sign-off, there is still an opportunity for further coercion.
The only decision is to isolate the offender, have them leave and persist with the precedent.
It would make it easier for the club to release him if he reoffended.
You're right all the same, too much effort for one scumbag.
Completely agree - but we are where we are with the issues affecting people involved.
Who knows what the future brings but there's 7 years between them. So they can rotate in the position for now and the next few years at least.
While I'd actually agree and probably even prefer him on the right. Most managers have a penchant for inverted wingers.
Except you're talking about dressing rooms and ethics and literally putting people like Rooney and Grealish on the same list as Ronaldo, Greenwood, Benzema, Partey. There's absolutely no reason to be putting them both on the same list because there's no evidence they've been engaged in the types of behaviour which are common, but in no way universal when it comes to sex work.
It's just a very cack-handed and disrespectful way to talk about the people who were willingly engaged in that industry to treat them all as if they're some kind of victim.
But you're kind of wilfully overlooking that it's not the trafficked women who are acting as escorts to footballers for the likes of Rooney and Grealish, even a brief look at the actual people involved in the events will tell you that. They operate in entirely different worlds, the actual porn star Virgil Van Dijk was paying for sex with isn't some poor trafficked Romanian lured here under false pretences and conflating those two makes it harder for those who want to promote conditions and regulations where they can practice safely.
If this means we can sell Rashford I am all for it.
I was actually being kind by saying 'bizarre', the idea that the club would force the Womens team to accept Greenwood back through physical and mental threats is completely ridiculous.
As I said before, if several players (Men or Women) made it known they were against his return then I'm sure he won't be coming back, no one would jeopardise squad unity for the sake of 1 player.
A) You have no idea about that unless you think the widely reported examples and public cases equal the sum of all sex buying in football.
B) I never claimed that and listing them together quickly does not do so - other than with your massive personal inference.
They are merely examples within an overall context, I didn’t make them equal or delve into the context and degree of severity of each. You have lasered in on that as disrespectful and I don't believe it is.
An off hand list in response to someone who was asking why I would think dressing rooms are not forward thinking places does not warrant this level of debate and misrepresentation of my point.
What we would all like in the future for sex workers has very little economy with what the current prevailing situation is, if you are content that every footballer engaging with prostitution is doing so in an absolutely above board, non-exploitive, non-abusive way, then I would suggest it’s a slightly rosey outlook.
I apologise for not sub-categorising my point enough.
I would imagine Sancho and Pellistri would leave before Rashford.
world class potential
Everyone would do that deal, except Barcelona supporters. Greenwood's contract is up in 2025, he was out for 2 years and the problems we all know about.
Balde a 20 year old left back with tremendous conditions to be one of the best in his position and still has several years left on his contract.
For Greenwood if United get 25M they can count themselves lucky. Barcelona won't sell Balde for less than 60M.
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world class potential
You may be right but we don’t have the technical quality that Barca or Atletico have at United, at least on a consistent basis.
This spake the Barcelona PR AI.
Yes you are probably right but only one would get us much needed cash.
Except we know the examples you listed don't match that definition, which is why including it was so utterly bizarre
It's not a massive inference, you literally listed them together and then gave examples of individuals who by your own admission did none of the things you have a problem with when you were asked to justify why you'd included it.
If your point was players engaging in paying for sex with exploited women then your examples were horrendous, if your example was of some massive moral failing in engaging in paying for sex with someone who was a willing participant like Rooney/Grealish then that example is wildly out of place alongside sexual and physical assault and just saying "well it's actually just your massive inference saying I'm comparing them" doesn't really cut it. If that was the case your initial reply wouldn't have been about why sex work was actually equivalent, it would have been "oh yeah, I probably shouldn't have grouped them together".
In terms of ability only, if we went into next season with the following as options across the front 3; Hojlund, Garnacho, Rashford, Amad & Greenwood we’d be totally set. Covers the front 3 perfectly and ensures plenty game time all round.
This is fecking hilarious!! Oh for a moment in this chaps head, absolutely bonkers.
Quality control
The situation with Mason is really heartbreaking. Wish things turned out better. Really could have used him on that right flank.
So basically he threatened his gf with rape. That is a heinous thing to do. Now the gf has dropped charges and forgiven him. Has he done anything else aside from that?
So basically he threatened his gf with rape. That is a heinous thing to do. Now the gf has dropped charges and forgiven him. Has he done anything else aside from that?
Nah it's just the rape threat and abuse, otherwise he's a lovely bloke.
You mean apart from breaking his bail conditions to contact and impregnate his victim and coerce her into withdrawing from the criminal case against him?
He's not admitted guilt and served a punishment, if that's what you're asking. He's also not provided any adequate explanation why his girlfriend would feel the need to audio record their sexual encounters that isn't "he's raped me before so this time I want evidence".