Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[bdspeedy]

Having a life does not preclude you from basic reading comprehension. Your points were relevant on page 1 but when they have been answered ad nauseum over the last few months it is just lazy and disrespectful to hop into a thread that you claim you "couldn't care less about" and repeat questions that have already been answered multiple times. If your final sentence is true, something I very much doubt, then why on earth did you bother posting in this thread which as we have established you "couldn't care less about"?

I'll never pretend to have great comprehension skills of ANY kind but with nearly 100 pages this year of bitch slapping (no women were actually hurt in this metaphor) each other over a matter that will work itself out, seems silly. That said, have fun. My opinion and five dollars couldn't buy an espresso at the local coffee house. #GlazersOut

 

[Fridge chutney]

Seems like some there's some projection going on here. By the way, how is calling someones genuine skepticism "cretinous" and "Vile" ok? Or is it simple a lazy way to demean the poster without getting banned? Seems like a lot of the usual ...."If you disagree with me it's because you are stupid, misogynist, racist or facist" we see everywhere lately. Do you honestly think ANY civilized person condones ANY type of physical violence? Especially towards a woman.

No projection, i just see through the same tired questioning and arguments and excuses that have been debunked hundreds of times already. No amount of bluster and denial from you will make your posts any less shitty given the context of this thread.

 

[bdspeedy]

No projection, i just see through the same tired questioning and arguments and excuses that have been debunked hundreds of times already. No amount of bluster and denial from you will make your posts any less shitty given the context of this thread.

We should start a club because I see through yours too.

 

[NotThatSoph]

I didn't know if they were still together. The fact that she is still with him seems relevant. Is your last sentence a passive aggressive accusation of my view on the matter?

No, it wasn't passive at all.

 

[Pickle85]

I've got a life. I couldn't care any less about a bunch of pretentious arseholes bloviating about a subject for 373 pages--- close to a hundred since the start of 2024 --most of you are absolutely convinced YOUR opinion is the most novel, nuanced, politically correct and sensitive opinion of all. This will sort itself out whether ANY of us are heard or not. For the record, I don't give a single F if he plays for us again but the points I made --as simple as they may appear to be-- seem relevant.

Why is it that you attribute all the blame for this circular argument to the 'politically correct and sensitive' side of the argument when it takes two to tango?

Your casual 'I don't give a single F if he plays for us again' is transparent, given everything else you've said on the matter. It's crystal clear which side of the matter you come down on.

 

[Varun1]

'Lynch mobs' denotes a mentality. One that has applied over the years to the burning of witches, the hanging and burning of people because of their Race, or assumed guilt of a crime, because of their Religion, in more recent times the persecution of people because of their sexuality, it includes, all sorts of actions by mobs... all because of a personal hatred, loathing etc. most of which is drummed up by people who know nothing about whats a stake and care little for justice, either way.

It's of no consequence for you... why?

I admit that I don't know anything about guilt or innocence of Greenwood, but neither does any one else.. it has never been put to the test, pictures/tapes etc released to the press could be real or not we will never know.
That is the whole point he is being judged in the court of public opinion and his career is at United is being threatened. For me the club has so far demonstrated 'feet of clay', which is probably in keeping with everything else that has been falling apart in recent years.

I get it, some people want him back, some don't and some think he should be forgiven etc... But to even claim the tapes could be fake!!

Anyway, anyone care to comment how he has been playing?

 

[BristolRuss]

I’m okay with any decision the club makes. If we keep him, we have a potential solution to our attacking problems and if he’s sold, hopefully we are compensated well so we can use that money to reinvest.

I will say if we are to bring him back there definitely needs to be more of an explanation as to why. The whole he wasn’t charged and “club has conducted an internal investigation” won’t hold in my opinion. Specifics are needed not just for fans but I’d imagine the rest of the squad and club staff too.

What else is there to say? They don't believe he did it.

https://global.espn.com/football/st...-man-united-exit-explained-legal-trouble-2023

"United's internal process, conducted by a panel of senior executives and chief legal officer Patrick Stewart, focused on Greenwood's initial arrest, made by Greater Manchester Police after images and an audio file were circulated online in the early hours of Jan. 30, 2022. United accept that their investigation was limited -- in part because they didn't have access to all the evidence gathered by the CPS but also because they were reliant on the cooperation of the parties involved -- but believe they know enough to establish that Greenwood did not assault the woman who accused him and did not demonstrate coercive behaviour.

Sources close to the investigation have told ESPN that the woman who accused Greenwood -- she is guaranteed lifelong anonymity under UK law -- did not engage directly but that the woman's mother did take part, and that both agreed with the investigation's findings. According to sources, United took into account that the woman did not report Greenwood to police -- GMP initiated contact with her -- and that she withdrew her allegations and her involvement in the police investigation in April 2022.

It was also decided by United's panel that Greenwood had cooperated with the police investigation, including handing over the passcode to his phone so it could be examined. United were provided with explanations for the images and audio file by Greenwood that were not contested by the woman's family.

The club have insisted privately that if they'd reached the conclusion that Greenwood had committed the offences he was accused of, they would have immediately terminated his contract. However, having decided that he didn't, the question then became whether he should be reintegrated at the Premier League club."

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

So the club are basically saying she gave herself the cut lip.

 

[Fridge chutney]

We should start a club because I see through yours too.

Thankfully, you and I are in very different clubs. You've been called out, argue in bad faith and ignore the points about your stance that many others have made.

 

[Denis79]

Interesting. She didn't banish him to a different league but instead decided to make the relationship work and is now living with him and their child? But we've determined that his crimes were too much for WE FANS to live with?

My mother lived with my abusive piece of shit father for many years before she gathered the courage to leave him, she was broken and bereft of confidence. Do not even use that excuse for that piece of shit cnut.

 

[Pickle85]

What else is there to say? They don't believe he did it.

https://global.espn.com/football/st...-man-united-exit-explained-legal-trouble-2023

"United's internal process, conducted by a panel of senior executives and chief legal officer Patrick Stewart, focused on Greenwood's initial arrest, made by Greater Manchester Police after images and an audio file were circulated online in the early hours of Jan. 30, 2022. United accept that their investigation was limited -- in part because they didn't have access to all the evidence gathered by the CPS but also because they were reliant on the cooperation of the parties involved -- but believe they know enough to establish that Greenwood did not assault the woman who accused him and did not demonstrate coercive behaviour.

Sources close to the investigation have told ESPN that the woman who accused Greenwood -- she is guaranteed lifelong anonymity under UK law -- did not engage directly but that the woman's mother did take part, and that both agreed with the investigation's findings. According to sources, United took into account that the woman did not report Greenwood to police -- GMP initiated contact with her -- and that she withdrew her allegations and her involvement in the police investigation in April 2022.

It was also decided by United's panel that Greenwood had cooperated with the police investigation, including handing over the passcode to his phone so it could be examined. United were provided with explanations for the images and audio file by Greenwood that were not contested by the woman's family.

The club have insisted privately that if they'd reached the conclusion that Greenwood had committed the offences he was accused of, they would have immediately terminated his contract. However, having decided that he didn't, the question then became whether he should be reintegrated at the Premier League club."

No, they say they don't believe he did what he was charged with. The two are very different. It's also interesting that they said the final bolded bit privately, so no direct quotes.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Why stay silent if he's innocent? That's what I never understood. I wouldn't let any fkr accuse me of that if I were innocent. As would probably most people. Ok maybe he has been advised it won't be a good plan but he could leak it to a source.or his misses should have come out and explained. Or do something. If he's innocent or its not as bad as it seems then how has he got himself into a situation where he just has to bend over and take it?

 

[Cloud7]

I thought the writing was on the wall a while ago - but seeing that commemorative “250 academy graduates” video recently - and him not included (understandably so) - should have told people the club’s not trying to go anywhere near that

You would think if they were seriously interested in re-integrating him into the team, they would start with small things like that. The fact that they aren't, and on the balance of our academy graduates he is a very notable absentee, then I agree that you would have to say that they aren't looking to bring him back.

 

[Insanity]

It’s quite common for partners in abusive relationships to stay in that relationship

I have a question, we always hear/read about the bad incidents, and rightly so, they are highlighted more in order to raise awareness. However, do all these relationships where there is some sort of DV end up bad if continued? In what %age of cases do people learn from their mistakes and are able to lead a decent life?

 

[Pickle85]

I have a question, we always hear/read about the bad incidents, and rightly so, they are highlighted more in order to raise awareness. However, do all these relationships where there is some sort of DV end up bad if continued? In what %age of cases do people learn from their mistakes and are able to lead a decent life?

If you're interested in this then you're probably better off having a Google to find out. Not meaning to be dismissive, honestly, it's just more reliable to look into it yourself then trust strangers on the Internet.

 

[Insanity]

If you're interested in this then you're probably better off having a Google to find out. Not meaning to be dismissive, honestly, it's just more reliable to look into it yourself then trust strangers on the Internet.

*Thumbs up*

 

[ROFLUTION]

That’s what happens when you head butt girls. No sympathy for him.

Have I missed something here? That's an accusation in the Giggs case, no? Not fact?

The case was then withdrawn due to lack of evidence. Have I completely missed something here?

I just expect a moderator on here to not spew out accusations as facts and I don't want to debate this, I just want to know if you have any evidence of that to state your claim?

 

[moses]

Have I missed something here? That's an accusation in the Giggs case, no? Not fact?

The case was then withdrawn due to lack of evidence. Have I completely missed something here?

I just expect a moderator on here to not spew out accusations as facts and I don't want to debate this, I just want to know if you have any evidence of that to state your claim?

I think he was speaking about Giggs overall behaviour. He wasn't sworn in and giving evidence.

 

[padzilla]

If he didn't do what he's suspected of doing, what did he do then?

An explanation for that and all this goes away. The fact there has been no explanation offered does not look too good for Greenwood.

 

[rimaldo]

i’ve never been accused of head butting a girl, as i’m sure won’t 99.9% of posters on here. i’m sure there’s the odd outlier where someone gives themselves a black eye and claims it was their partner, but what have the likes of giggs or greenwood said or done that makes anyone truly believe that they’re in the infinitesimally small number of victims, rather than in the
overwhelming large number of perpetrators?

 

[Pickle85]

i’ve never been accused of head butting a girl, as i’m sure won’t 99.9% of posters on here. i’m sure there’s the odd outlier where someone gives themselves a black eye and claims it was their partner, but what have the likes of giggs or greenwood said or done that makes anyone truly believe that they’re in the infinitesimally small number of victims, rather than in the
overwhelming large number of perpetrators?

Been much better than average at kicking a ball around a field.

 

[flameinthesun]

So anyway...10 goals 6 assists in all comps is a decent output coming off of not playing/professionally training for 1.5 years, joining a new league and a mid-table team who quite frankly aren't the best at keeping the ball and attacking. Seems to have gotten very good reviews for the recent performance and a few others as well. He is quite clearly the jewel in their crown and a standout player so it makes sense that he is being linked with big moves. If he moved to a team like Barca then I think its likely he becomes a 20+ goal a season wide-forward quite easily. I think of all the teams linked to him Barcelona would suit his style the best. If he came back he'd quite clearly take the right wing spot quite easily. For me the only reservation on how far he can go is whether he has the mentality/personality to try to dominate games, which may come with maturity.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

So anyway...10 goals 6 assists in all comps is a decent output coming off of not playing/professionally training for 1.5 years, joining a new league and a mid-table team who quite frankly aren't the best at keeping the ball and attacking. Seems to have gotten very good reviews for the recent performance and a few others as well. He is quite clearly the jewel in their crown and a standout player so it makes sense that he is being linked with big moves. If he moved to a team like Barca then I think its likely he becomes a 20+ goal a season wide-forward quite easily. I think of all the teams linked to him Barcelona would suit his style the best. If he came back he'd quite clearly take the right wing spot quite easily. For me the only reservation on how far he can go is whether he has the mentality/personality to try to dominate games, which may come with maturity.

I don't think he's suited to Barcelona at all. He's a selfish player who likes to dribble and shoot instead of passing. He was even selfish at United.

Lamine Yamal is Barcelona's RW and he is exactly what a RW/RF should be with regards to their style.

If he could become more robust physically, Atlético would be perfect for him. Work ethic off the ball.

 

[ROFLUTION]

I think he was speaking about Giggs overall behaviour. He wasn't sworn in and giving evidence.

The sentence is pretty clear, he states it as fact that Giggs headbutted his ex.

It’s just a wild accusation without evidence, that’s all.

 

[Lash]

So anyway...10 goals 6 assists in all comps is a decent output coming off of not playing/professionally training for 1.5 years, joining a new league and a mid-table team who quite frankly aren't the best at keeping the ball and attacking. Seems to have gotten very good reviews for the recent performance and a few others as well. He is quite clearly the jewel in their crown and a standout player so it makes sense that he is being linked with big moves. If he moved to a team like Barca then I think its likely he becomes a 20+ goal a season wide-forward quite easily. I think of all the teams linked to him Barcelona would suit his style the best. If he came back he'd quite clearly take the right wing spot quite easily. For me the only reservation on how far he can go is whether he has the mentality/personality to try to dominate games, which may come with maturity.

He's clearly talented, but his stats as a winger/forward are pretty meh and he does little to no defensive work - that's just not good enough at a top team anymore. The biggest reservation is obviously his physicality - he can shine against lower quality teams, but he struggles to win duels against better opposition and he certainly contributes to their lack of keeping the ball.

As @Fallon d'Floor mentions, Yamal is their RW for the forseeable future and is miles ahead of him. They have no need to spend big money for Greenwood and agree Atletico would be his best bet, but he would need to work a hell of a lot harder.

 

[moses]

The sentence is pretty clear, he states it as fact that Giggs headbutted his ex.

It’s just a wild accusation without evidence, that’s all.

OK. Maybe so but he didn't pull it out of the ether. But that's a whole other shitshow, which we don't care about because he's 50 and can't play anymore. Your disapproval is noted, now let's stay on topic.

 

[flameinthesun]

He's clearly talented, but his stats as a winger/forward are pretty meh and he does little to no defensive work - that's just not good enough at a top team anymore. The biggest reservation is obviously his physicality - he can shine against lower quality teams, but he struggles to win duels against better opposition and he certainly contributes to their lack of keeping the ball.

As @Fallon d'Floor mentions, Yamal is their RW for the forseeable future and is miles ahead of him. They have no need to spend big money for Greenwood and agree Atletico would be his best bet, but he would need to work a hell of a lot harder.

I don't think he's suited to Barcelona at all. He's a selfish player who likes to dribble and shoot instead of passing. He was even selfish at United.

Lamine Yamal is Barcelona's RW and he is exactly what a RW/RF should be with regards to their style.

If he could become more robust physically, Atlético would be perfect for him. Work ethic off the ball.

I think that could potentially be solved by moving him to CF in a team like Barca. He is in a weird place where his finishing and striker instincts are very good but I'm not sure about his hold up play, at the same time his ability as winger is very good but I don't think he has the work ethic to play there for a team like Atletico. For me if I was Barca I'd potentially look to play/develop him as a striker through the middle.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I think that could potentially be solved by moving him to CF in a team like Barca. He is in a weird place where his finishing and striker instincts are very good but I'm not sure about his hold up play, at the same time his ability as winger is very good but I don't think he has the work ethic to play there for a team like Atletico. For me if I was Barca I'd potentially look to play/develop him as a striker through the middle.

They signed 19 year old Vitor Roque for €40 million in January. He's had a slow introduction, but has scored 2 goals from 276 mins in La Liga. He might go out on loan next season.

They also have La Masia product Marc Guiu. 18 years old and has scored 2 goals for the senior team.

I think Barcelona have other areas of the team that need to be addressed. It looks like Lewandowski will stay for one last season. According to himself anyway.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

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[Pickle85]

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It wouldn't make much sense for us to brief 'we'll take whatever we can get' in fairness...

 

[Maticmaker]

It's because he's not been proved guilty in a court of law and so if I don't include 'alleged' it opens up the (very slim) possibility that the Caf gets in legal trouble. For what it's worth, it's my personal opinion that he is absolutely guilty.

Got it in one. He is still an employee and 'under duty of care' until that changes then the Club should give him a chance to return, if he wants it. I appreciate you and others don't agree, but we all have a right to our opinion.

Mason has never claimed they were not real and it stretches credibility to a ridiculous degree to suggest he would not have denied them if he could. The pictures and tapes are most certainly real, some context may be missing but frankly I cannot think of any context that would mitigate the acts that we have seen and heard.

A far as I am aware he has neither admitted or denied anything, that is not the point, 'no comment' is something we hear is an appropriate response, probably advised by his legal representatives. The context would be vital if it came to a trial.

I get it, some people want him back, some don't and some think he should be forgiven etc... But to even claim the tapes could be fake!!

The validity has never been tested in a court of law, only in the court of public (social media) opinion. Also having been released to the press they would probably would be inadmissible or certainly have less value in a trial.

 

[golden_blunder]

The sentence is pretty clear, he states it as fact that Giggs headbutted his ex.

It’s just a wild accusation without evidence, that’s all.

Point taken. It was a reply to a question why Giggs hadn’t been added to the PL hall of fame. So now it says “allegedly headbutted”. This is likely the reason he hasn’t been added.

 

[golden_blunder]

Got it in one. He is still an employee and 'under duty of care' until that changes then the Club should give him a chance to return, if he wants it. I appreciate you and others don't agree, but we all have a right to our opinion.



A far as I am aware he has neither admitted or denied anything, that is not the point, 'no comment' is something we hear is an appropriate response, probably advised by his legal representatives. The context would be vital if it came to a trial.



The validity has never been tested in a court of law, only in the court of public (social media) opinion. Also having been released to the press they would probably would be inadmissible or certainly have less value in a trial.

The club has a duty of care to other employees too, including all female employees

 

[Pickle85]

Got it in one. He is still an employee and 'under duty of care' until that changes then the Club should give him a chance to return, if he wants it. I appreciate you and others don't agree, but we all have a right to our opinion.



A far as I am aware he has neither admitted or denied anything, that is not the point, 'no comment' is something we hear is an appropriate response, probably advised by his legal representatives. The context would be vital if it came to a trial.



The validity has never been tested in a court of law, only in the court of public (social media) opinion. Also having been released to the press they would probably would be inadmissible or certainly have less value in a trial.

'Duty of care' has absolutely nothing to do with whether he should be given a chance to return. It's honestly like you read these phrases ('virtue signaling' is another one), half understand them and then regurgitate them in situations where they could almost fit (if you squint) but upon closer inspection don't.

 

[Maticmaker]

The club has a duty of care to other employees too, including all female employees

Exactly, when does one 'duty of care' cancel out another? It doesn't, the club would have to put procedures in place, to protect him and also any female employees who felt threatened.

'Duty of care' has absolutely nothing to do with whether he should be given a chance to return. It's honestly like you read these phrases ('virtue signaling' is another one), half understand them and then regurgitate them in situations where they could almost fit (if you squint) but upon closer inspection don't.

It certainly does, he has not been found guilty of anything, if he wishes to stay at the Club then he has that right until his contract expires. As above there may need to be procedures in place that protect him and/or others who maybe felt threatened, but the club would have to assess such risks.

I understand what I mean by 'virtue signalling' and it fits perfectly.

 

[RuudTom83]

(*If you completely remove any of the legal/moral stuff and just see him as a football player*)

The thing about Greenwood is the RW spot at United is so muddy that introducing him back into the group would just give the manager another headache. Squad balance/harmony is very important and each player needs to see a path into the first team.

Same as Sancho, re-introducing them while Rashford/Antony are at the club will just create more drama that isn't worth the trouble.

- Sancho, Garnacho, Greenwood, Amad would be manageable.

- Rashford, Antony, Garnacho, Amad, Sancho and Greenwood..with possibly Mount is just a recipe for a dressing room disaster. We wouldn't be able to keep up with all the leaks and tweet.

 

[Lash]

A far as I am aware he has neither admitted or denied anything, that is not the point, 'no comment' is something we hear is an appropriate response, probably advised by his legal representatives. The context would be vital if it came to a trial.

Well yeah, why would you think that is? Are you being deliberately obtuse about this? Why would a legal representative advise you not to comment on something? He has denied the charges levelled against him, but admitted to "mistakes", he's not just said "no comment".

 

[duffer]

A far as I am aware he has neither admitted or denied anything, that is not the point, 'no comment' is something we hear is an appropriate response, probably advised by his legal representatives. The context would be vital if it came to a trial.

He made a statement saying he didn't do it.

" I was brought up to know that violence or abuse in any relationship is wrong, I did not do the things I was accused of, and in February I was cleared of all charges".

He actually got community noted on Twitter because he wasn't cleared of any charges, they were dropped.

 

[Berbasbullet]

'Duty of care' has absolutely nothing to do with whether he should be given a chance to return. It's honestly like you read these phrases ('virtue signaling' is another one), half understand them and then regurgitate them in situations where they could almost fit (if you squint) but upon closer inspection don't.

If you wanted to go the ‘duty of care’ route you’d surely argue taking him out of the spotlight and loaning him out is the right decision anyway. If you didn’t care about his duty of care you’d stick him on the pitch to get booed by 70k people and score a few goals for us.

 

[Maticmaker]

Well yeah, why would you think that is? Are you being deliberately obtuse about this? Why would a legal representative advise you not to comment on something? He has denied the charges levelled against him, but admitted to "mistakes", he's not just said "no comment".

As I understand, it's because it is to protect a client's right to not say anything that might incriminate themselves, after denying the charges.
A 'mistake' is what an individual may perceive has occurred, its their opinion, but it is not a legal charge.