i do not think he’s being sold for not taking La Liga by storm. He’s had 10 goals and 6 assists in 31 games playing for an average team. Football-wise, he is doing well. No winger in our team is doing better. Garnacho arguably. So the decision to sell him is not based on football.In my opinion, it is based on the possible reaction and headlines bringing him back would result in. INEOS probably does not want the process to kick start with controversy and have decided that moving on is better for them as new owners. I don’t necessarily agree with this, but i think this is the thought process behind it
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It can be based on both his football and that. His level doesn't outweigh the obvious negatives of him coming back. He's an academy product, so selling him is pure profit. The point of them being an average team doesn't mean much, if he was the talent we needed, he'd be shining much more considering he has free roam to attack as he pleases.
He's a selfish, immature little cnut and exactly the kind of character we don't need any of at this club. At least the other immature ones we've had in recent years were pretty harmless(although god knows what's happened to Pogba the last few years).
Long and the short of it - Greenwood and Sancho can score as many goals as they like, they're not welcome back here in my book.
He’s scored 8 in La Liga, of which two were penalties, 6 from open play, at a return of 1 goal every 277 minutes, difficult to know whether that’s really doing well, although it’s certainly not performing badly.
Compare with Borja Mayoral, Getafe’s other first choice forward, who has 15 goals at roughly twice as frequently, (every 144 minutes) although less assists, only 1 apparently.
It's obviously a significant factor if the team is on the backfoot a lot and not having much possession.
I think it's quite hard to measure his progress, given he probably wasn't someone who would naturally moved abroad and so he's had to adapt, as well as dealing with all the other fallout. Maybe he's more or less in line with expectations or maybe some thought he'd kick on more from January.
Either way at his current level he'd be a good squad option and with the possibility he gets better. Like I've said for months though, I can't see Ineos wanting the shitstorm of bringing him back and Jo makes a good point about showing academy players that actions have consequences.
I'd say 8 goals and 6 assists is a brilliant return for a 22 year old who has not played football for a year, just moved to a new country and plays for Getafe. He's definitely a cnt unless some new details come up but I think people are being delusional if they don't think he's going to be a top player. He'll be banging in 30 goals and assists a season for a bigger club in a couple of seasons.
No question for me that the club will do all they can to sell him in the summer and in order to keep their negotiating position strong they will also brief the possibility of his potential return
Be interesting to see how far they'll push that though. If for instance they allow him to take part in pre season or even just use Carrington over the summer the press and social media reaction will go into overdrive and that reaction could massively affect negotiations.
They've got to try to get the deal done before pre season starts or it's very likely we'll be stuck loaning him out again
Be interesting to see how far they'll push that though. If for instance they allow him to take part in pre season or even just use Carrington over the summer the press and social media reaction will go into overdrive and that reaction could massively affect negotiations.
They've got to try to get the deal done before pre season starts or it's very likely we'll be stuck loaning him out again
This thread makes me so sad
And the opposite. I know someone who has a very very strange relationship…there’s two people in that relationship and both of them form a relationship that to me is not normal in many weird ways.
It’s also strange when people try to force everything down their own agenda, especially when actually it’s none of their business and they know very very little.
The negotiating position is as weak as water though and the only hope of driving the price up a bit is if two or three clubs seriously want him. Even then, £30m-35m feels fanciful.
Surely no way they'd bring him back to Carrington for pre-season if he's definitely being sold. Would be a load of very avoidable negative publicity. Doing it to test the water would be bonkers cos they'd need to meticulously plan his return, if that's on the cards, not just stick a finger in the air then wing it.
I don't disagree, I think they'll be lucky to get north of 20m myself. If you're a potential buyer the starting position is zero, you hold all the cards here.
The question is how far are they willing to push negotiations. If we were still purely glazer owned I suspect he'd be going on tour - I believe (hope) ineos are much smarter than that and a deal of some sort will be done before training resumes
Can’t agree more, it’s difficult for people to keep their personal bias aside and be objective in their criticism.
The club wants him gone, that’s okay, they’re definitely not making the decision on basis of his quality as a footballer. But there’s no doubt he’ll be getting way better numbers in better teams and far exceed our current wingers in terms of output and overall play.
They would probably be better off removing anything relating to George Best and Ronnie and Giggsy from around the club then given their history with women.
Hopefully sold by July.
I'm not so sure, he's only ever played in a counter attacking type team like us and that's where he's played well. Take the Sevilla game, they had more possession but it didn't make him any better. Plus are Budimir or Uzuni going to be better as they play for shit teams?
His progress is still extremely impressive, but he's physically still miles off.
That is my point though, if he's only a squad option with a possibility that he gets better - that's clearly someone you sell if they're a an academy prospect with FFP in mind. I totally agree with Jo too, there's a long list of reasons why he shouldn't come back and a very small list of pros.
Yeah, ultimately Ineos will probably judge it's too big a gamble that he can get back close enough to the trajectory he was on before and become world class. After all the media briefing about him being sold, doing a U-turn on that would stoke such a massive backlash.
I don't see it.
I didn't think Greenwood was going to be as good as everyone else did at United anyway. By the time of his third full season.
His numbers dropped off after a brilliant full debut season. He became more cocky and was often selfish. He's had serious arguments with both Alexis Sanchez and Cristiano Ronaldo. There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance.
He went from 10 PL goals to 7 PL goals to 5 PL goals.
He's a good player. I can see him having a career similar to someone like Jared Bowen's. As in he'll score 15 odd goals a season for some midtable club, but I don't see him becoming world class unless he makes huge strides next season.
He'll put up better numbers in La Liga. It's less physical. He already loses a lot of duels there.
I never imagined I would get banned from a football forum for citing a poem. My crime was apparently "using God to excuse domestic violence," as stated in the letter sent to me.
I am not religious, nor do I believe in God. However, I was raised in a Christian society and family, where I was taught that sins can be forgiven if you change your path in life and your remorse is heartfelt. That is the point of the poem—not to excuse any crime that has been committed.
It is valid to argue that just because his girlfriend seemingly forgave him, it doesn’t prove he has changed his ways or that his remorse is genuine. However, we don’t have proof of the contrary either. We don't have the full picture. What we do know is that after the case was dismissed, the club conducted its own investigation and reportedly concluded that Greenwood was about to rejoin the squad and that Ten Hag approved of this decision. Does this mean Ten Hag is excusing domestic violence?
I respect that there are differing opinions on this matter, but I also believe that a moderator should be cautious about using bans to suppress differing opinions—regardless of their personal emotional attachment to the issue.
What we know is he denied the charges and has admitted to "mistakes". I'm not sure you could ever say that's taking accountability or showing heartfelt remorse for any actions. Also, what has Ten Hag got to do with Greenwood being remorseful? Ten Hag made the decision based off the clubs decision, which got subsequently got reversed. I'd need to know Ten Hags opinion on it more to answer your question.
No one is suppressing your opinion, your post is still there and you're posting your opinion now. What you can't do is wade into a seriously complex debate with a fecking poem, that ultimately says "who are you to judge".
Yes, our negotiating position is week, but also he was not long ago considered one of the finest talents in the world, valued closer to 100 than 30m. In that sense, 30m might not be that fanciful. It all depends on who will be in for him. Getafe have never made any transfers north of €6, so I think we can rule them out. At. Madrid, however, paid €126 for Felix back in 2019, so we'll see. Lets hope for a bidding war.
Been nominated for La Liga team of the season. Good achievement for him, hopefully adds a bit to his price tag.
You need to consider one thing though: If he's brought back, he effectively replaces Martial. If he isn't, then we are going to have to sign someone else to do that. If you sell him for maybe 25m, that's a roughly 30m FFP gain (factoring in wages saved). That's not likely to outweigh the FFP cost we'll incur from signing a striker.
I think outside of a massive drop in form we’ll get £30-£35 million for Greenwood which is pure profit and nearly £100K a week off the wage bill, if Sancho keeps performing as he is too we could get £40-£50 million for him too and his massive wages gone too.
Personally I just don’t see how Greenwood comes back as it’ll be a PR nightmare for Ratcliffe regardless of no conviction taking place, Greenwood and his family seem settled out of England so it’ll be best for both sides although I imagine it would be done after July 1st as it’ll help us PSR wise if it’s in the next PSR year instead of this current one.
Personally I just don’t see how Greenwood comes back as it’ll be a PR nightmare for Ratcliffe regardless of no conviction taking place, Greenwood and his family seem settled out of England so it’ll be best for both sides although I imagine it would be done after July 1st as it’ll help us PSR wise if it’s in the next PSR year instead of this current one.
I'm surprised by how many nominations there are for attack.
3 nominees for goalkeeper (1 position)
16 nominees for defence (4 positions)
12 nominees for midfield (3 positions)
19 nominees for attack (3 positions)
Like, with that many it'd almost be harder not to be nominated.
Pretty sure that’s not how the FFP calculation works.
FFP wise, for next season in isolation, selling Greenwood for 25m would allow us to spend an extra 125m, if we assume 5 year contracts. In the long run selling someone for 25m, no matter who, allows us to spend an extra 25m.
A ridiculous number, but still, for a young player who hasn't played in over a year, playing for Getafe. Feels like a decent achievement for him.
Yes that was my understanding
Firstly, the amortisation cost plus annual wages plus agent fees etc are unlikely to be much less than 30 million for the sort of striker we'd buy. Greenwood is on modest wages, only 3.9m. If you buy a player that costs say 60 million, and sign him for five years at 10 million p/a and factor in signing bonus and agent fees (which does count against FFP), you're at pretty much the same FFP cost that selling Greenwood at 25m would add on the plus side. And, that's just for next season. You additionally get a 20-25m FFP hit (amortisation plus wages) for each of the next 4 seasons. Whereas the FFP cost of keeping Greenwood would just be his wages. So, from an FFP perspective it's much, much better to keep Greenwood than to sell him and instead buy a new striker.
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No.
They would only cancel out for the next season, and that's provided the new striker has the same wages as Greenwood, and that you're not paying a penny in agent fees or signing bonus. After that, you have a big FFP hit for each of the next four seasons, compared to one that would be basically only wages. Cost unfortunately doesn't magically go away just because you can spread it out.Yes, that's what I said.No.
10 goals is probably good enough to get into the top 19 attackers category. Vini Jr., Artem Dovbyk, and Griezmann would probably be contenders for the top 3 spots.
Well, you're not taking any account of wages, signing bonuses or agent fees in your argument. Also it's not really very meaningful to look only at the FFP effects in the coming season in complete isolation.
No, it was simplified on purpose to illustrate how amortization works in the short and long term.
Whether or not the short or long term matters more depends on the club and their situation.
I get that, but unfortunately it was simplified in a way that actually obscures how amortization works in the short and long term. Wages often matter as much, if not more than, the amortisation of the transfer cost. Sancho's wages over the course of his contract, for instance, significantly exceeds his transfer sum. Also, it obscures a further fairly key point, which is that there are very significant costs to bringing in a new player that you don't get when you're just keeping one (agent fees etc). This is how you ended up arguing that selling Greenwood for 25m would enable buying someone else for 125m in terms of FFP impact next season, when the reality would be that it might enable you to buy someone maybe half that price.
And again, even in the short term there's not a very clear case that you get a better FFP outcome from selling Sancho and buying someone else than you do by just keeping him. Which was the point I responded to. People assume that because he's an academy product, it's lucrative in FFP terms to sell him. But it really isn't - unless you don't have to replace him.
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Safe assumption. He has not played for us in 2 and a half seasons so we really are not needing to replace him. We currently have 3 other right sided attackers in the squad plus 2 attacking mids who can play there and a couple of very promising wingers in the Academy.
Sell him and get that money and FFP breathing space. I don’t think he’s going to be as good as people initially thought he would be anyway.
Well normally it would be a safe assumption, but the thing is we're losing Martial, and he could in effect replace him. Not that Martial has offered much this season, but I don't think we could really continue with just one striker. It might not be the ideal solution there, but it might be a sufficiently good one to save us from having to splurge 50 million or more just to fill a hole. That would make a lot of other things we need to do much easier to get done.
None of them are good enough to play there. Garnacho is the only one who comes close to Greenwood levels of production, so unless we are planning on bringing Sancho back to play on the right (a distinct possibility) then we can't rely on one goal Antony, Pellistri, Amad, or some yet unidentified academy player.
He might well give us more FFP breathing space by playing for us, certainly in the longer run.
The real FFP jackpot is Rashford. Maguire, Lindelof and Wan-Bissaka would also likely net good FFP returns - and Varane, provided we don't have to pick up any of his wages. And McTominay.