Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

Weird how we are giving him the benefit of the doubt regarding breached bail conditions. He had been breaching bail for "many months" before he was arrested so it is not hard to imagine why he might try to beach bail in a case like this - in order to influence the accuser. Unless we go by "its probably her fault" train of logic.

“He was arrested on Saturday morning for breaching his police conditional bail”, prosecutor Rebecca Macaulay-Addison told the magistrates court hearing in October.
“He was found in the company of the complainant.”
Greenwood’s lawyer, David Toal, admitted the breach had taken place, saying: “I absolutely concede it is his responsibility to abide by all bail conditions imposed.”
He told the court: “Contact has occurred for many months.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...reenwood-bail-breach-gmp-police-b1057577.html

Mike Tyson raped and assaulted women yet is seen as a legend by most. Different rules in different times apparently.

My stance now is the guy was basically a child and the fact she chose to stay with him means I can’t really be his judge, jury and executioner like many on this forum and the media seem to believe they are.

It’s not our choice and I am a firm believer in counselling can change people for the better especially as they become actual adults.

You don’t give up on people at 21 and shame them for their entire lives. That’s not human at all.

I think he should stay in Spain personally for his mental state more than the clubs sake. It’s upto him.

Meanwhile, in Getafe, Mason Greenwood is earning £75,000 a week playing football in the second best league in the world.

Such a fecking tragedy.

Son said:

Mike Tyson raped and assaulted women yet is seen as a legend by most. Different rules in different times apparently.

My stance now is the guy was basically a child and the fact she chose to stay with him means I can’t really be his judge, jury and executioner like many on this forum and the media seem to believe they are.

It’s not our choice and I am a firm believer in counselling can change people for the better especially as they become actual adults.

You don’t give up on people at 21 and shame them for their entire lives. That’s not human at all.

I think he should stay in Spain personally for his mental state more than the clubs sake. It’s upto him.

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I certainly don't see him as a legend and that goes for pretty much everyone I know, I think these things are more about the people you associate with and the media you consume. It is true that attitudes have hardened in recent years and if Tyson had been convicted in the past 10 years there would have been no rehabilitation and cute cameos in Bradley Cooper movies but even so he is still reviled, rightly, by a lot of people for the things he did.

Son said:

Mike Tyson raped and assaulted women yet is seen as a legend by most. Different rules in different times apparently.

My stance now is the guy was basically a child and the fact she chose to stay with him means I can’t really be his judge, jury and executioner like many on this forum and the media seem to believe they are.

It’s not our choice and I am a firm believer in counselling can change people for the better especially as they become actual adults.

You don’t give up on people at 21 and shame them for their entire lives. That’s not human at all.

I think he should stay in Spain personally for his mental state more than the clubs sake. It’s upto him.

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The criminal age of responsibility is 10,so he had 9/10 years to learn threatening rape and breaking bail were criminal. Unless he has a mental age of less than 10

cafecillos said:

Meanwhile, in Getafe, Mason Greenwood is earning £75,000 a week playing football in the second best league in the world.

Such a fecking tragedy.

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I wish someone would give up on me like that.

Son said:

Different rules in different times apparently.

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I mean this is one of the most obvious statements ever. Laws and rules and norms evolve, and we aspire for them to evolve for the better.

manutddjw said:

The Audio:
In a carefully worded statement, most likely written by the legal team at Manchester United, they made it a point to say that the audio released was a snippet of a larger clip not available to the public which was explained by both parties and played a role in their decision to bring him back. To me, the club wouldn't put out a statement saying that because if down the road the audio in full is released and it was worse it would create a huge problem for the club as it would look like they were covering up a horrible crime. The brand would be tainted and their would be huge financial ramifications especially with sponsors if that were the case. I don't think the club would take that risk, certainly not for a good youth player like Mason Greenwood.

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The club and Arnold only said the audio was part of a longer recording, they said nothing about what it contained, if it contained anything exculpating, or that it played a role in their decision to try and bring him back. All they said about it was "We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online", leaving it at that, which suggests that they were banking on people's imaginations to fill in the rest. They stated that they didn't have access to all the evidence, which may well include the full recording.

The statements put out by the club and Arnold was mostly to save face after the enormous backlash after it leaked that they were planning to bring him back, followed by the whole "consulting the women's team" disaster. The fact that they said or implied nothing about the contents of the longer recording, nor claimed that they'd actually heard it, means they can't really be pulled up on it later, because they never made any claims with regards to its content, they merely stated a piece of fact (probably.)

Son said:

Mike Tyson raped and assaulted women yet is seen as a legend by most. Different rules in different times apparently.

My stance now is the guy was basically a child and the fact she chose to stay with him means I can’t really be his judge, jury and executioner like many on this forum and the media seem to believe they are.

It’s not our choice and I am a firm believer in counselling can change people for the better especially as they become actual adults.

You don’t give up on people at 21 and shame them for their entire lives. That’s not human at all.

I think he should stay in Spain personally for his mental state more than the clubs sake. It’s upto him.

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Who on earth thinks Tyson is a legend? Brilliant boxer but an awful thug of a human that was punished for his crimes. You know, in a way that Greenwood wasn't. Also, re the bolded, thankfully it's not just up to him.

When will people realise that just because his partner took him back doesn’t make any of it better. Any abuse is abuse. Shocking how some on here struggle to make sense of it.

For ******* to provide evidence the way she did, tells you that he had been doing that to her for a while. You don’t do that the very first time that happens to you. He was abusive more than once. We just saw that occasion. She felt shitty enough to decide to need evidence (probably because people wouldn’t believe her) and out him so publicly. It was pretty drastic measures so god knows what she’d been through.

He got caught out BIG time and paid the consequences of it. (Although still a footballer and with her so he’s going pretty well really considering).

we don’t know what help he has sought since, if he’s worked on himself. Reflected, grown up. He could have done all of those things. Just because he’s a pro footballer, doesn’t make him a good person. People need to stop riding footballers dicks like their gods. They just happen to be very good at something. That’s it.

one thing is for sure, as good as he is, he will never be able to play at United. Too much has happened. He would get so much abuse and the club is trying to move in a positive direction. It would be negative all around. He would struggle anywhere near the premier league. His best option is a permenant move abroad where we can command a decent fee. Everyone wins. I think that’s what will happen.

DRJosh said:

When will people realise that just because his partner took him back doesn’t make any of it better. Any abuse is abuse. Shocking how some on here struggle to make sense of it.

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Often think when we are having these never ending debates about bail, interviews, CPS statements etc.; Just listen to the audio, look at the images and consider the context of that conversation and her choosing to record it.

Painfully simple.

Son said:

Mike Tyson raped and assaulted women yet is seen as a legend by most. Different rules in different times apparently.

My stance now is the guy was basically a child and the fact she chose to stay with him means I can’t really be his judge, jury and executioner like many on this forum and the media seem to believe they are.

It’s not our choice and I am a firm believer in counselling can change people for the better especially as they become actual adults.

You don’t give up on people at 21 and shame them for their entire lives. That’s not human at all.

I think he should stay in Spain personally for his mental state more than the clubs sake. It’s upto him.

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Some people believe in 2nd chances under certain circumstances. And so do I.

Pickle85 said:

Who on earth thinks Tyson is a legend? Brilliant boxer but an awful thug of a human that was punished for his crimes. You know, in a way that Greenwood wasn't. Also, re the bolded, thankfully it's not just up to him.

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Youngest ever heavyweight champion, of course he's a legend. Great guy now, he's a long way from the angry and abused young person he was a few decades ago. I hope you're aware of how he was sexually abused aged 7 and how that can have lasting effects.

Red_toad said:

Youngest ever heavyweight champion, of course he's a legend. Great guy now, he's a long way from the angry and abused young person he was a few decades ago. I hope you're aware of how he was sexually abused aged 7 and how that can have lasting effects.

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So does that make rape ok then? Because he was abused as a child? Also, what's he been done to be seen as a great guy now? To me he's a convicted rapist that I absolutely would not want to be stuck in a locked room with.

We’re signing Tyson now?!

Pickle85 said:

So does that make rape ok then? Because he was abused as a child? Also, what's he been done to be seen as a great guy now? To me he's a convicted rapist that I absolutely would not want to be stuck in a locked room with.

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Yeah of course it does, is that the answer you want? Or can you accept some context as to why he was a troubled angry young man?
Do you not want to be in a room with him as he's black? Or am I reading it wrong like you did my comment?

cafecillos said:

Meanwhile, in Getafe, Mason Greenwood is earning £75,000 a week playing football in the second best league in the world.

Such a fecking tragedy.

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Exactly. Can't believe he didn't get a second chance. The world can be so unforgiving.

Red_toad said:

Yeah of course it does, is that the answer you want? Or can you accept some context as to why he was a troubled angry young man?
Do you not want to be in a room with him as he's black? Or am I reading it wrong like you did my comment?

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You used his previous sexual abuse as a way of mitigating what he did. Otherwise why mention it? There are a lot of angry and troubled young men that don't wind up raping people. The action is a horrendous one and, like I said, he'll always be a violent rapist to me. Your mention of his race is a very odd one, even if it's to make a point.

Pickle85 said:

You used his previous sexual abuse as a way of mitigating what he did. Otherwise why mention it? There are a lot of angry and troubled young men that don't wind up raping people. The action is a horrendous one and, like I said, he'll always be a violent rapist to me. Your mention of his race is a very odd one, even if it's to make a point.

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One third of abusers were abused as children, not excusing anything, just pointing out it's a factor. Having worked with young teens who were abuse by their parents and/or other relatives, I have seen the lifelong impact that can have on them. Doesn't mean they will all go on to offend.
You making out I said it was ok, due to the abuse he suffered as a child, when that simply wasn't what I said, drew out a similar ridiculous comment in reply. Hope you enjoyed it more than I enjoyed yours...

Red_toad said:

One third of abusers were abused as children, not excusing anything, just pointing out it's a factor. Having worked with young teens who were abuse by their parents and/or other relatives, I have seen the lifelong impact that can have on them. Doesn't mean they will all go on to offend.
You making out I said it was ok, due to the abuse he suffered as a child, when that simply wasn't what I said, drew out a similar ridiculous comment in reply. Hope you enjoyed it more than I enjoyed yours...

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So, again, why did you mention it if not to mitigate Tyson's future actions? Also, what makes you say he's a 'great guy' now?

To be frank, I've not enjoyed any of this back and forth with you. It's been largely off topic, with you telling me that Tyson is a legend, a great guy now and that he was abused before. You really like Mike Tyson and I think he's a violent sex offender - noted - but we've drifted a long way from Greenwood at this point.

Pickle85 said:

So, again, why did you mention it if not to mitigate Tyson's future actions? Also, what makes you say he's a 'great guy' now?

To be frank, I've not enjoyed any of this back and forth with you. It's been largely off topic, with you telling me that Tyson is a legend, a great guy now and that he was abused before. You really like Mike Tyson and I think he's a violent sex offender - noted - but we've drifted a long way from Greenwood at this point.

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Again simply pointed out he was abused aged 7, it is a factor in how he developed as a person. You disagree then ok fine enjoy your opinion.
He is a legend, he's the youngster ever heavyweight boxer, that makes him a legend, I didn't appoint him as such.
He is very much a changed character now.

Rood said:

Do you have actual evidence for this?

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You mean apart from the police statement. They were also already back in contact by February 2022, so I'm not sure where you're going with it.

Ludens the Red said:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/mason-greenwood-police-deliberately-ignored-163433725.html

Trust me you’re not undermining me You’re simply saying things that are not correct. As a few others have pointed out to you too.

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The GMP didn't challenge the appeal to be granted bail after he was charged for rape in October, it was never contested. This is what the judge in his hearing said:

“What I am being told is the defendant flagrantly breached the conditions over weeks or even months and police haven’t done anything about it.”

“If they suspected breaches of bail, the police should be doing something about it but haven’t – why not? What’s the point of someone being on bail conditions if the police don’t enforce them?”

The judge clearly doesn't think police bail means 'diddly squat', in fact he's utterly scathing of their inaction.

Not to mention, that court case wasn't for the breach of bail, it was the hearing where he was formally charged with rape. As I said, he was never actually charged with breaching bail, it was brought up at his session where he was charged but GMP never took sought to actually punish him for it.

Dion said:

You mean apart from the police statement. They were also already back in contact by February 2022, so I'm not sure where you're going with it.

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Im waiting for your evidence of this, I'm not even sure which police statement you are refering to - there were many and I don't remember any backing up anything you claimed

you asked me for evidence of my claim and I provided it

You have provided nothing apart from speculative theories and got several facts wrong so far - it's ok to get things wrong, there is lots of info to digest but better to just admit it and move on

Rood said:

Im waiting for your evidence of this, I'm not even sure which police statement you are refering to - there were many and I don't remember any backing up anything you claimed

you asked me for evidence of my claim and I provided it

You have provided nothing apart from speculative theories and got several facts wrong so far

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The statement from the CPP.

And please, facts aren't wrong, you're just willfully misinterpreting them.

Dion said:

The statement from the CPP.

And please, facts aren't wrong, you're just willfully misinterpreting them.

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Nothing in that statement backs up anything you said in this post:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mas...ectful-and-stay-on-topic.478763/post-31754874

And where is your evidence that they were in contact before she asked for the case to be closed in April '22?
Note that you were not aware about this date until I gave you the evidence

Raoul said:

He also went to prison for it, so there is a general sentiment among most that he was punished, paid his dues to society, and was subsequently accepted back into mainstream boxing to restart his career.

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To be fair, he went to prison for raping Ms. Washinton. I'm not fully up to speed on the details but it doesn't seem like any abusive violence (i.e. beating) was involved just the rapey violence, which is bad enough.

As I recall he didn't face any legal sanction for being physically abusive to Robyn Givens, although she bodied him in that Barbara Walters interview.

In those years he was a pretty fecked up individual. These days it seems he is in a better place. So people can change for the better.

Dr. Dwayne said:

So people can change for the better.

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Definitely

ForeverRed1 said:

For ******* to provide evidence the way she did, tells you that he had been doing that to her for a while. You don’t do that the very first time that happens to you. He was abusive more than once. We just saw that occasion. She felt shitty enough to decide to need evidence (probably because people wouldn’t believe her) and out him so publicly. It was pretty drastic measures so god knows what she’d been through.

He got caught out BIG time and paid the consequences of it. (Although still a footballer and with her so he’s going pretty well really considering).

we don’t know what help he has sought since, if he’s worked on himself. Reflected, grown up. He could have done all of those things. Just because he’s a pro footballer, doesn’t make him a good person. People need to stop riding footballers dicks like their gods. They just happen to be very good at something. That’s it.

one thing is for sure, as good as he is, he will never be able to play at United. Too much has happened. He would get so much abuse and the club is trying to move in a positive direction. It would be negative all around. He would struggle anywhere near the premier league. His best option is a permenant move abroad where we can command a decent fee. Everyone wins. I think that’s what will happen.

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I agree with this. Best to just move on.

Rood said:

Nothing in that statement backs up anything you said in this post:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mas...ectful-and-stay-on-topic.478763/post-31754874

And where is your evidence that they were in contact before she asked for the case to be closed in April '22?
Note that you were not aware about this date until I gave you the evidence

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I literally does, he was charged in October. They ended the case early the following year after the victim withdrew. The victim statement was still in as of October 2022 when they charged him.

I assumed you meant the date she withdrew the statement, which is why I was confused. Since one means something and the other thing is nothing.

Search Twitter for 'Greenwood following' between 1st Feb 22 and 2nd Feb 22. I can't post one of the tweets without breaking the law naming the victim.

It’s At

Gandalf said:

I certainly don't see him as a legend and that goes for pretty much everyone I know, I think these things are more about the people you associate with and the media you consume. It is true that attitudes have hardened in recent years and if Tyson had been convicted in the past 10 years there would have been no rehabilitation and cute cameos in Bradley Cooper movies but even so he is still reviled, rightly, by a lot of people for the things he did.

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I’d argue Tyson is one of the most loved people on the planet. Certainly the most loved fighter alongside Manny. He was far from being the best fighter but people absolutely adore him in the States especially.

He’s still an A list celebrity to this day. Hell he even beat someone up on a plane on video and everyone cheered just a few years back

People just say stuff like bless him you don’t mess with iron Mike but I get he’s more of a GTA type character than Greenwood is.

Another point people have brought up about Greenwood going to prison. He wouldn’t get a second chance either way so I don’t see what that even proves to a 21 year old kid.

He’d have gone to jail been introduced to worse people and his life would have nose dived far more than now. It wouldn’t have helped Mason and would have completely done the opposite of what was intended.

I don’t agree with locking people up like animals if we can get away from it. He’s not a danger to the public.

Son said:

It’s At

I’d argue Tyson is one of the most loved people on the planet. Certainly the most loved fighter alongside Manny. He was far from being the best fighter but people absolutely adore him in the States especially.

He’s still an A list celebrity to this day. Hell he even beat someone up on a plane on video and everyone cheered just a few years back

People just say stuff like bless him you don’t mess with iron Mike but I get he’s more of a GTA type character than Greenwood is.

Another point people have brought up about Greenwood going to prison. He wouldn’t get a second chance either way so I don’t see what that even proves to a 21 year old kid.

He’d have gone to jail been introduced to worse people and his life would have nose dived far more than now. It wouldn’t have helped Mason and would have completely done the opposite of what was intended.

I don’t agree with locking people up like animals if we can get away from it. He’s not a danger to the public.

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With respect to the topic, I'm not particularly interested in Tyson. It's whataboutery.

We should base our decision upon what Greenwood has done.

We have an audio recording of him violently threatening his partner with rape.

Unless there is a mitigating circumstance for this action, which I strongly doubt, he has got to go.

His age and background are not mitigating factors. Nor is 'Iron' Mike' and an aeroplane of wallies.

Raoul said:

There's no need for a Tyson comparison in this thread given that he actually went to jail and resumed his career after being incarcerated for his crime. That's not where we are with Greenwood at the moment.

BTW, I also don't think its helpful to hype him up or deny his legend status in boxing. He's just a completely different topic than the specifics of what this thread is about.

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What I’m trying to get at is even if Greenwood has done his time, he’d have got out and just got victimised by society for being a jail bird.

That’s a fact as football fans are brutal to the point of pure cruelty if you give them any reason. You can say maybe he should have thicker skin but the facts are normal criminals face 1/100th of the shaming Greenwood would have received.

It could cause serious self harm and him branded a criminal for the rest of his life. It would have destroyed his life completely and you cannot allow that to happen in a civil society to someone who can still learn his ways.

His brain is basically like a child despite what some others are saying on this forum. If they themselves were all grown up and matured by 21 then they are about the only people not named Orson Welles who were…

Son said:

I don’t agree with locking people up like animals if we can get away from it. He’s not a danger to the public.

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We have very good reason to believe he is violent and abusive in domestic situations and pretty much no reason not to think that absent any kind of explanation for the pictures and audio. That he could be knocking seven bells out of his partner right now or should they split subject his next girlfriend to more of the same is a distinct possibility. Your definition of the public may vary but until proven otherwise I believe he is dangerous and based on the evidence we have seen and heard he absolutely belongs in a jail cell. He is free to produce evidence that exonerates him but having not done so in the two plus years since this became public I doubt he can or will.

Son said:

He’s not a danger to the public.

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Saying this about someone who was charged with coercive and controlling behaviour, physical assault and rape, who escaped prosecution in part because of a witness, who he had broken the terms of his bail to see, withdrew from the investigation is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this forum.

Dion said:

I literally does, he was charged in October. They ended the case early the following year after the victim withdrew. The victim statement was still in as of October 2022 when they charged him.

I assumed you meant the date she withdrew the statement, which is why I was confused. Since one means something and the other thing is nothing.

Search Twitter for 'Greenwood following' between 1st Feb 22 and 2nd Feb 22. I can't post one of the tweets without breaking the law naming the victim.

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There is absolutely nothing in that CPS statement that backs up any of your claims. At least we can agree that you are very confused!

1. There is no mention in the link you provided (or in fact any official communication I have seen) of anything to do with withdrawal of statements so I have absolutely no idea where you have dreamed this up from.

2. The link says 'the withdrawal of key witnesses' - again nothing to do with statements and we actually don't know for sure who this refers to or even if it's one or more witnesses

3. How do you know the victim statement was still in at Oct '22?
Another speculative claim with no evidence

I don't even understand what you are suggesting, are you saying that she asked for the case to be closed and got back with him but was still ready to be a witness against him until the CPS dropped the case?!

Feel free to DM me any Twitter link of actual evidence but don't bother if it's just social media speculation

Dion said:

The GMP didn't challenge the appeal to be granted bail after he was charged for rape in October, it was never contested. This is what the judge in his hearing said:

“What I am being told is the defendant flagrantly breached the conditions over weeks or even months and police haven’t done anything about it.”

“If they suspected breaches of bail, the police should be doing something about it but haven’t – why not? What’s the point of someone being on bail conditions if the police don’t enforce them?”

The judge clearly doesn't think police bail means 'diddly squat', in fact he's utterly scathing of their inaction.

Not to mention, that court case wasn't for the breach of bail, it was the hearing where he was formally charged with rape. As I said, he was never actually charged with breaching bail, it was brought up at his session where he was charged but GMP never took sought to actually punish him for it.

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see below…

He was arrested on Saturday morning for breaching his police conditional bail”, prosecutor Rebecca Macaulay-Addison told the magistrates court hearing in October.

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they arrested him for breach of bail: Which means they would have charged him in custody. It’s there in writing. It’s the easiest thing to ‘police charge’ for once you have the evidence. But most people know after that point it loses its significance. (Google it) There isn’t a police “punishment” for it. I’m actually now curious what you think police can do to someone who breached police bail? Other than arrest and send to court.

I said in my initial post that this judge did take the breaches seriously btw. Well he made out he did anyway.

There are basically no repercussions for breaching it unless a judge actually uses it as a basis for a remand in custody in relation to the criminal case which can happen at any point in the investigation post charge .

You seem to be taking the judges’ comments about police “deliberately ignoring the breaches for months” as gospel and in black and white. There is massive grey area to it.

The court case says “suspected” of breaching bail. If those suspicions weren’t proven, why would they then arrest greenwood for breach of police bail multiple times over ?
How have they come to the conclusion that police were ignoring him breaching bail for months?. Or was it that he did it for months and the police simply didn’t know or werent told?or that they didn’t have sufficient evidence.
Have you also explored the possibility that potentially nobody was willing to provide evidence as to greenwood breaching bail? Like [name dedacted] and her family? At that point in the investigation were they even still assisting police?

I feel your grievances are misdirected tbh.
The question you should really be asking is who in their right mind made the decision to grant the appeal for Greenwood and overturn his remand. This is someone who at the time was charged with rape and had contacted/visited the victim, despite being specifically told not to.
Despite police then arresting him for it. A judge then remanding him for it, somebody still said “nah you’re free to go”….