Kobbie is just much better and you saw that in 15 minutes today.
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OverratedOpinion
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Long established at what? Being a decent midfielder for West Ham that is close to almost filling Xhaka's boots?We have to stop disrespecting established players with a long body of work. Rice has had at least seven years of top-flight football and is a starter for one of the best teams In the league. Mainoo is talented, but he is still young and developing. “More intelligent”, how so? Mainoo has a lot to learn when it comes to out-of-possession football. Let's not forget he got bullied by Newcastle's midfield.
More intelligent in that he positions himself far better to receive a pass, shows far better knowledge on when to be expansive and when to be conservative, reads space better and understands when he can attack it. Not to mention just having drastically better technique with the ball.
Longevity is a silly metric. Messi was clearly a better player than Saviola within 6 months of his professional debut. Mainoo (not comparing him to Messi) is clearly a significantly better player than Declan bloody Rice.
TheNewEra
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Yep again Mainoo is more of a ball carrier than an anchor like RiceI already love Kobbie but I feel we need to be a bit careful to not overhype him too much too early in here.
Declan Rice is a brilliant holding midfielder who has different attributes to Kobbie. They are different types of players.
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I mean some of United fans have no leg to stand on and call Arsenal fans deluded, this is a shocking post.They are different in that Mainoo is fairly significantly better. I think you personally would be surprised if you swapped the two that we would look even worse and Mainoo would do nearly all or the dirty work Rice does then would actually dictate the tempo from deep in the way people pretend Rice does because Mainoo is infinitely more intelligent as a footballer.
If Arsenal had Mainoo they would have brought another midfielder rather than Havertz cause they would have already had enough from deep.
Fabregas at 18 tore teams a new one during our run to the final in the CL. Then at 18, on one of our only 2 wins at OT last 2 decades, he was MOM. Mainoo has done nothing yet except have a few good games, all of 16 games? Has Mainoo even had 10% of those games as good as Fabregas did and he's being compared to Rice, arguably our player of the season or one of them. Your club utterly ruins players with expectations. Who here remembers Janujaz? Or threads comparing Mbappe to Rashford? Forget that look at how Fabregas turned out, despite being utterly dominant in his role for a few years only to peter out in the late 20s.
Mainoo is an amazing talent, what he needs is his fanbase keeping grounded, letting him develop. And he has a big future ahead of him.
2 man midfield
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I’m not fully on board the Dalot hype train yet. He’s been pretty good though, and I like his commitment.Dalot.
OverratedOpinion
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They are both central midfielders who play from as deep as one and other. Rooney and Aguero both play the game in totally different ways. You wouldn't be so pedantic if someone asked you to choose the better player though.Yep again Mainoo is more of a ball carrier than an anchor like Rice
lex talionis
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I agree with your logic and your admiration of Mainoo, whose ability right now is mind-boggling, but I don’t think we can say just yet is significantly better than Rice.Long established at what? Being a decent midfielder for West Ham that is close to almost filling Xhaka's boots?
More intelligent in that he positions himself far better to receive a pass, shows far better knowledge on when to be expansive and when to be conservative, reads space better and understands when he can attack it. Not to mention just having drastically better technique with the ball.
Longevity is a silly metric. Messi was clearly a better player than Saviola within 6 months of his professional debut. Mainoo (not comparing him to Messi) is clearly a significantly better player than Declan bloody Rice.
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All I'm asking for is some patience and the end of hyperbolic statements like these. I recall how this forum lost its mind over Januzaj after his debut season. Let's not forget how Martial was meant to be next the Henry.Long established at what? Being a decent midfielder for West Ham that is close to almost filling Xhaka's boots?
More intelligent in that he positions himself far better to receive a pass, shows far better knowledge on when to be expansive and when to be conservative, reads space better and understands when he can attack it. Not to mention just having drastically better technique with the ball.
Longevity is a silly metric. Messi was clearly a better player than Saviola within 6 months of his professional debut. Mainoo (not comparing him to Messi) is clearly a significantly better player than Declan bloody Rice.
OverratedOpinion
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Oh I can, he is much, much better. In 18 months when Arsenal fans stop bugging up the bare minimum from Rice to justify his transfer fee and everyone looking at things on merit the common consensus will he that Mainoo is obviously twice the player because he clearly is.I agree with your logic and your admiration of Mainoo, whose ability right now is mind-boggling, but I don’t think we can say just yet is significantly better than Rice.
This is assuming mainoo doesnt gave some freak fall off cause of some random personal issue but he has already shown himself to be drastically better at football than Rice ever has in years.
I think talent in midfielders is the most obvious thing to judge yet the one people get most confused about for some reason. Like I said all summer that Bissouma was clearly as good as Ceicedo and just recieved pelter after pelter then never mentioned it until now.
Mainoo is a better midfielder than Decland Rice. If they both played in the same midfield right now, Declan Rice would be aiming to be a good teammate for the best player in the midfield.
Swiss_Red89
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You might be right but for the moment I would propose to calm down a bit and wait & see.Oh I can, he is much, much better. In 18 months when Arsenal fans stop bugging up the bare minimum from Rice to justify his transfer fee and everyone looking at things on merit the common consensus will he that Mainoo is obviously twice the player because he clearly is.
This is assuming mainoo doesnt gave some freak fall off cause of some random personal issue but he has already shown himself to be drastically better at football than Rice ever has in years.
I think talent in midfielders is the most obvious thing to judge yet the one people get most confused about for some reason. Like I said all summer that Bissouma was clearly as good as Ceicedo and just recieved pelter after pelter then never mentioned it until now.
Mainoo is a better midfielder than Decland Rice. If they both played in the same midfield right now, Declan Rice would be aiming to be a good teammate for the best player in the midfield.
TheNewEra
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Its like Busquets or Xavi though, both do a different role.They are both central midfielders who play from as deep as one and other. Rooney and Aguero both play the game in totally different ways. You wouldn't be so pedantic if someone asked you to choose the better player though.
I'd gladly take Rice at United. Doesn't mean Mainoo can't play.
Players can compliment each other, it's a team sport.
Rodri or De Bruyne? Both are really important, obviously the answer is De Bruyne for everyone but Rodri is the best in the world in his position too.
OverratedOpinion
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I would ask you to have some patience with a midfielder who did a decent job at west ham and from the eye test has still not reached the level of Granit Xhaka before comparing him to a player who has the clear and obvious talent of Kobbie Mainoo. I remember your lot bigging up Alliediare, Walcott, Ox and Carlos Vela.All I'm asking for is some patience and the end of hyperbolic statements like these. I recall how this forum lost its mind over Januzaj after his debut season. Let's not forget how Martial was meant to be next the Henry.
Adisa
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Imagine we were a possession based team. He would look even better.
OverratedOpinion
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I'm extremely calm and have seen a good amount of both players.You might be right but for the moment I would propose to calm down a bit and wait & see.
I'm going to keep saying it, Mainoo is a fairly noticable amount better as a central midfielder than Declan Rice.
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So what lessons have we learned? We shouldn't praise young players too much too quickly or you end up with egg on your face. Anyway, I can see I have no chance of changing your opinion. Good night, brother, enjoy your evening.I would ask you to have some patience with a midfielder who did a decent job at west ham and from the eye test has still not reached the level of Granit Xhaka before comparing him to a player who has the clear and obvious talent of Kobbie Mainoo. I remember your lot bigging up Alliediare, Walcott, Ox and Carlos Vela.
OverratedOpinion
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De Bruyne is a significantly better football player than Rodri.Its like Busquets or Xavi though, both do a different role.
I'd gladly take Rice at United. Doesn't mean Mainoo can't play.
Players can compliment each other, it's a team sport.
Rodri or De Bruyne? Both are really important, obviously the answer is De Bruyne for everyone but Rodri is the best in the world in his position too.
Mainoo is a better football player than Rice.
Although Mainoo can do more of Rice's job than De Bruyne can do of Rodri's but it doesnt matter I'm just talking about who is a better midfielder.
Swiss_Red89
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We agree to disagree then.I'm extremely calm and have seen a good amount of both players.
I'm going to keep saying it, Mainoo is a fairly noticable amount better as a central midfielder than Declan Rice.
Mainoo has been sensational so far and is my favorit United player already. But he only just came to the stage and needs to show consistency over a prolonged period as well as improvement on some weaknesses. (Defensive awareness for example).
All things that Rice has shown to be worldclass at. But anyway, I agree with the general conses that England should play them both behind Belingham, as these three would give the England midfield a perfect balance.
OverratedOpinion
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Yeah some people are crap at telling how good a player is. I reckon I'm moderately decent.So what lessons have we learned? We shouldn't praise young players too much too quickly or you end up with egg on your face. Anyway, I can see I have no chance of changing your opinion. Good night, brother, enjoy your evening.
Not a scout by any means but when I watch dozens of games from two players I back my opinion on who is better.
Night buddy
OverratedOpinion
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Again that is not a reasonable opinion. Kobiee definitely doesnt have issues with defensive awareness. He gets played in a team as a number 8 were the tactics are almost direcely set up for the number 6 to he isolated and leave the rest of the team chasing.We agree to disagree then.
Mainoo has been sensational so far and is my favorit United player already. But he only just came to the stage and needs to show consistency over a prolonged period as well as improvement on some weaknesses. (Defensive awareness for example).
All things that Rice has shown to be worldclass at. But anyway, I agree with the general conses that England should play them both behind Belingham, as these three would give the England midfield a perfect balance.
The number of important tackles ect. He has made in spite of this actually shows an incredible defensive awareness.
Is Rice better at reading the game defensively? Yes absolutely. I took that into my considerations when thinking about all their attributes and who is overall the better player. Still wasnt remotely close in my opinion. I dont need to see 100 games, if Mainoo turns crap them my opinion can turn but right now 1 is very clearly the better midfielder and his name is not a carbohydrate.
MyOnlySolskjaer
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Christ, this is a crazy level of delusion and expectations for a player that is just about 20 games in his professional career ffs. Rice has been playing at a fantastic level for a number of seasons and you are severely underrating him.They are different in that Mainoo is fairly significantly better. I think you personally would be surprised if you swapped the two that we would look even worse and Mainoo would do nearly all or the dirty work Rice does then would actually dictate the tempo from deep in the way people pretend Rice does because Mainoo is infinitely more intelligent as a footballer.
If Arsenal had Mainoo they would have brought another midfielder rather than Havertz cause they would have already had enough from deep.
In 20 games, you were probably backing a teenage Januzaj to be a world class player. Let the kid just play his game, we don't know yet what his level could be.
OverratedOpinion
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I promise I will let him play, I will not be running on the pitch to tie his laces together or anything.Christ, this is a crazy level of delusion and expectations for a player thatt is 20 games in his professional career ffs. Rice has been playing at a fantastic level for a number of seasons.
In 20 games, people were backing Januzaj to be a world class player. Let the kid just play his game, we don't know yet what his level could be.
You can calm knowing that me believing that he is quite comfortably better than Declan bloody Rice will not stop him making one pass or bursting through a single press.
Marcelinho87
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That’s fair.I’m not fully on board the Dalot hype train yet. He’s been pretty good though, and I like his commitment.
Do think even if we became a top outfit again though he’s worthy of a backup spot due to his ability to play either fullback position.
Still only 25 too so decent number of years left in him.
CallyRed
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He did ok for a 20 minute appearance. Some nice touches. Felt he was little static and looked like he was ball watching a few times but understandable if he was a little nervous on his debut.
giggs-beckham
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Good job he doesn't work in accounts (office joke)He’s actually insane
OverratedOpinion
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He definitely didn't look like he was ball watching, if anything he was too enthusiastic in chasing positions to receive the ball.He did ok for a 20 minute appearance. Some nice touches. Felt he was little static and looked like he was ball watching a few times but understandable if he was a little nervous on his debut.
This forum is mad, that is literally the opposite of what happened.
CallyRed
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ah ok, maybe its me with the overrated opinion.He definitely didn't look like he was ball watching, if anything he was too enthusiastic in chasing positions to receive the ball.
This forum is mad, that is literally the opposite of what happened.
Jeppers7
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What? He didn’t stop moving into spaces, even when ignored he moved again. His positioning to receive a pass and to always be available is fantastic.He did ok for a 20 minute appearance. Some nice touches. Felt he was little static and looked like he was ball watching a few times but understandable if he was a little nervous on his debut.
Jeppers7
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YepHe definitely didn't look like he was ball watching, if anything he was too enthusiastic in chasing positions to receive the ball.
This forum is mad, that is literally the opposite of what happened.
CallyRed
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I’ll rewatch from when comes on. Granted I was in a packed pub watching the game.What? He didn’t stop moving into spaces, even when ignored he moved again. His positioning to receive a pass and to always be available is fantastic.
Walters_19_MuFc
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How many did you have?I’ll rewatch from when comes on. Granted I was in a packed pub watching the game.
CallyRed
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Think I was on my fifth Strongbow of the evening. Which for me is alot. It was surprising I wasn't on the table shouting ingerlandHow many did you have?
Jeffthered
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You see. Look at this. How on Earth is Kobie Mainoo a £120m player?Rice and Mainoo are different players IMO.
I think Rice is wonderful as the anchor of a midfield, I don't think Mainoo can be that but Mainoo is a special special talent and is beyond Rice for sure I think Mainoo is one of those $120m+ talents that people fawn over in the transfer market.
How much is Halaand valued at then? Or Bellingham?
Let's just relax a bit. He's a v v good talent but steady on.
His movement was perpetual and he was often bypassed by others who can't work in such confined spaces, as they either have no confidence of hitting their mark, or they don't want to be dragged into any intricate play, so by not passing him the ball, they don't have to worry about getting it back in a pressure situation.I’ll rewatch from when comes on. Granted I was in a packed pub watching the game.
He looked like a veteran out there, wasn't nervous or unsure in the slightest. You'd never know that was his debut, and if he didn't still have the face of a boy, it wouldn't be clear he's still a teenager, off the back of how he played.
He came on at the 75 minute mark. Recorded the game only to watch him. Have played it back 2 times before deleting.
CallyRed
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Fair. I’ll definitely have another watch when I am in a fitter state.i was actually nervous when he came on.His movement was perpetual and he was often bypassed by others who can't work in such confined spaces, as they either have no confidence of hitting their mark, or they don't want to be dragged into any intricate play, so by not passing him the ball, they don't have to worry about getting it back in a pressure situation.
He looked like a veteran out there, wasn't nervous or unsure in the slightest. You'd never know that was his debut, and if he didn't still have the face of a boy, it wouldn't be clear he's still a teenager, off the back of how he played.
He came on at the 75 minute mark. Recorded the game only to watch him. Have played it back 2 times before deleting.
BaguetteBoy
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Kid unfazed about anything proper gangster
giggs-beckham
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Good debate. Does our hype have any influence on their career or progress becomes the pointYou might be right but for the moment I would propose to calm down a bit and wait & see.
giggs-beckham
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Was going to make a similar joke about usernames but I agree with him. And have been on the receiving end similarlyah ok, maybe its me with the overrated opinion.
giggs-beckham
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I genuinely don't get this whole, let's keep feet on the ground stuff. What difference does it make? The greatest players were surely all excitedly hyped when they were young.You see. Look at this. How on Earth is Kobie Mainoo a £120m player?
How much is Halaand valued at then? Or Bellingham?
Let's just relax a bit. He's a v v good talent but steady on.
The holy trinity 68
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Behave. Of course he is not a better footballer than Rice. Mainoo has far more potential and is ceiling is way higher, but he is not there yet.De Bruyne is a significantly better football player than Rodri.
Mainoo is a better football player than Rice.
Although Mainoo can do more of Rice's job than De Bruyne can do of Rodri's but it doesnt matter I'm just talking about who is a better midfielder.
simonhch
Horrible boss
As with any young talent, one has to preach caution. He’s being hyped to the high heavens, and the only thing that serves is to establish a fantastical benchmark against which the same people tear him down later. We’ve seen it so many times.
What Kobbie is, is a brilliant talent who still has a lot of developing to do. He’s extremely calm and confident and seems fazed by nothing. Yet he has got loads of areas where he can grow and develop his game. We are yet to even fully understand his best position. Most suspect it’s as an 8, but time will tell. Regardless, he needs to be allowed to develop without such a preposterous level of expectation. Expectation that’s going to lead to unnecessary pressure, vitriol from the same people spouting the hyperbole if he has a bad patch, and the very dangerous prospect of overplaying him.
I’d wager nearly anything that at some point in the next couple of years, he’ll have a subpar spell (all young players do as they adapt to the men’s game and opposition players get more familiar with them), and people will tear into him because of their unrealistic expectations. It’d be lovely if we didn’t do that with just one young player for once. But I won’t hold my breath.
What Kobbie is, is a brilliant talent who still has a lot of developing to do. He’s extremely calm and confident and seems fazed by nothing. Yet he has got loads of areas where he can grow and develop his game. We are yet to even fully understand his best position. Most suspect it’s as an 8, but time will tell. Regardless, he needs to be allowed to develop without such a preposterous level of expectation. Expectation that’s going to lead to unnecessary pressure, vitriol from the same people spouting the hyperbole if he has a bad patch, and the very dangerous prospect of overplaying him.
I’d wager nearly anything that at some point in the next couple of years, he’ll have a subpar spell (all young players do as they adapt to the men’s game and opposition players get more familiar with them), and people will tear into him because of their unrealistic expectations. It’d be lovely if we didn’t do that with just one young player for once. But I won’t hold my breath.