Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

Cassidy

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QuietOn Fortune said:
We have only really not had Shaw & Lisandro Martinez, Malacia this season - Varane, Maguire, Lindelof, Dalot, Wan Bissaka, Reguilon, Alvaro Fernades,Amass, Kambwala were all generally there for Ten Hag to use even if Ten Hag ditched/never used them. But again that's the managers fault more than the squads capacity.

Anyway, if you don't think Rice would have made much of a difference then I say forget about signing a CDM this summer and just focus on upgrading our CB'S and fullbacks. Because clearly that's only what's let us down this season :houllier:

If you think going in to next season with no new CDM and still only using Casemiro & Mctominay as our CDM is a good option then fine I can believe that Rice would have made no/minimal difference to us.

However, if we really do need a CDM this summer then not going for Rice was & is shooting ourselves on the foot.

People don't rate him because of his Nationality and because he doesn't play like Ronaldinho from Brazil or Pirlo from Italy.

He was the reason England made the Euro Finals last tournament and is one of the main reasons that England are one of the favourites this year, without him people would be saying their is a big hole in the midfield just as much as Southgate needed someone like Mainoo. He is one of the reasons Arsenal have been title challengers this year with the best goal difference in the league. Arsenal are still even in the Champions League whilst we got done in our first few games to arguably the same teams.

Rice is class. I honestly believe people who don't rate him only look at a footballers ability when the ball is at their feet so they follow the ball with their eyes so they don't see what players like Rice do off the ball.

I genuinely believe that the people who don't rate Rice would be & are crap at Chess.

The man pretty much blocks the central lane by himself on opposition attacks so attacks are more likely to come from out wide.

The guy is class and I've wanted him here ever since I saw him play for England.
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I rate Rice highly, simply stating that playing in front of the best CB pairing in the league this season also helps (they were also one of the best last season).
He would look lost in United midfield this season, especially when the defensive line has been an utter shambles.

We need to fix both the midfield and defence next season, however one looks poor without the other is what I am saying. Fixing the midfield alone won't fix the defence and fixing the defence alone won't fix the midfield
 

QuietOn Fortune

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Cassidy said:
I rate Rice highly, simply stating that playing in front of the best CB pairing in the league this season also helps (they were also one of the best last season).
He would look lost in United midfield this season, especially when the defensive line has been an utter shambles.

We need to fix both the midfield and defence next season, however one looks poor without the other is what I am saying. Fixing the midfield alone won't fix the defence and fixing the defence alone won't fix the midfield
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Ofcourse we have more than one problem, but just because we have 5 problems doesn't dilute the importance of each problem.

Having Rice this season would have made our problems go from 5 to 4.

Then going for a top quality and a less injury prone LB this summer would have made our problems go from 4 to 3 etc.

You cant build all of the team and deal with all the problems at once. You got to deal with them one at a time.

Rice would have solved arguably both our CDM issue aswell as even probably our captaincy or mentality issues aswell.
 

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I rate rice and i wanted us to sign him instead of Casemiro since he was already proven in the league and younger.
Didn’t agree with the consensus that he didn’t have much more to his game based on people watching him play limited roles in conservative teams (West Ham and England)

he’s shown this year that he is capable of more, added goals. He’s already got good leadership and seems to be a professional lad.

Do I think he could have solved this seasons problems? No. There is no footballer alive who could play that lone role in the system that ETH has, it’s just insanity.

however he would have been a solid building block and a good player to have around the squad
 

Cassidy

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QuietOn Fortune said:
Ofcourse we have more than one problem, but just because we have 5 problems doesn't dilute the importance of each problem.

Having Rice this season would have made our problems go from 5 to 4.

Then going for a top quality and a less injury prone LB this summer would have made our problems go from 4 to 3 etc.

You cant build all of the team and deal with all the problems at once. You got to deal with them one at a time.

Rice would have solved arguably both our CDM issue aswell as even probably our captaincy or mentality issues aswell.
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Like I said previously I think Rice would have looked like a waste of 100m in a United shirt this season.
I think he we should have signed him instead of Mount, and I really like him as a player.

I'm just saying he would have been left alone in midfield and got run over
 

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QuietOn Fortune said:
We have only really not had Shaw & Lisandro Martinez, Malacia this season - Varane, Maguire, Lindelof, Dalot, Wan Bissaka, Reguilon, Alvaro Fernades,Amass, Kambwala were all generally there for Ten Hag to use even if Ten Hag ditched/never used them. But again that's the managers fault more than the squads capacity.

Anyway, if you don't think Rice would have made much of a difference then I say forget about signing a CDM this summer and just focus on upgrading our CB'S and fullbacks. Because clearly that's only what's let us down this season :houllier:

If you think going in to next season with no new CDM and still only using Casemiro & Mctominay as our CDM is a good option then fine I can believe that Rice would have made no/minimal difference to us.

However, if we really do need a CDM this summer then not going for Rice was & is shooting ourselves on the foot.

People don't rate him because of his Nationality and because he doesn't play like Ronaldinho from Brazil or Pirlo from Italy.

He was the reason England made the Euro Finals last tournament and is one of the main reasons that England are one of the favourites this year, without him people would be saying their is a big hole in the midfield just as much as Southgate needed someone like Mainoo to play as a deep lying playmaker to make the team tick. He is one of the reasons Arsenal have been title challengers this year with the best goal difference in the league. Arsenal are still even in the Champions League whilst we got done in our first few games to arguably the same teams.

Rice is class. I honestly believe people who don't rate him only look at a footballers ability when the ball is at their feet so they follow the ball with their eyes & so they don't see what players like Rice do off the ball.

I genuinely believe that the people who don't rate Rice would be & are crap at Chess. Anyone good at Chess would rate Rice.

The man pretty much blocks the central lane by himself on opposition attacks so attacks are more likely to come from out wide.

The guy is class and I've wanted him here ever since I saw him play for England.
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Let’s stop including Amass in these conversations, he only turned 17 in March
 

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QuietOn Fortune said:
Yes because Casemiro has no legs.

Everyone is crying out for rubbish like Onana from Everton and people can't see why Rice would have changed our midfield.

Arsenal played with 2 CAM'S & 1 CDM... does that tactic not sound familiar to you?

Rice Mount Bruno, Rice Mount Mainoo, Rice Mainoo Bruno, would have certainly made a big difference to how we have played.

Especially the 30+ shots on goal we take per game which is one of the major reasons why Casemiro has been so poor.

Arsenal have the best goal difference in the league not just by how many they have scored - but how few they have let in.

If people can't see that's down to Rice when arguably they have played the same defenders as last season then its completely bonkers.

Aston Villa are 4th in the PL & are better than us.

If we beat arsenal, people wouldn't act less shocked because we are a more legendary top club, feeling like these results are are not impossible to us even during a bad season.

But Villa are a better team than us this season, it was 4th best team vs 1/2/3rd in the PL on a similar point level.
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We are closer to 13th than top 4, no player would get us to top 4, let alone Rice.
 

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QuietOn Fortune said:
We have only really not had Shaw & Lisandro Martinez, Malacia this season - Varane, Maguire, Lindelof, Dalot, Wan Bissaka, Reguilon, Alvaro Fernades,Amass, Kambwala were all generally there for Ten Hag to use even if Ten Hag ditched/never used them. But again that's the managers fault more than the squads capacity.

Anyway, if you don't think Rice would have made much of a difference then I say forget about signing a CDM this summer and just focus on upgrading our CB'S and fullbacks. Because clearly that's only what's let us down this season :houllier:

If you think going in to next season with no new CDM and still only using Casemiro & Mctominay as our CDM is a good option then fine I can believe that Rice would have made no/minimal difference to us.

However, if we really do need a CDM this summer then not going for Rice was & is shooting ourselves on the foot.

People don't rate him because of his Nationality and because he doesn't play like Ronaldinho from Brazil or Pirlo from Italy.

He was the reason England made the Euro Finals last tournament and is one of the main reasons that England are one of the favourites this year, without him people would be saying their is a big hole in the midfield just as much as Southgate needed someone like Mainoo to play as a deep lying playmaker to make the team tick. He is one of the reasons Arsenal have been title challengers this year with the best goal difference in the league. Arsenal are still even in the Champions League whilst we got done in our first few games to arguably the same teams.

Rice is class. I honestly believe people who don't rate him only look at a footballers ability when the ball is at their feet so they follow the ball with their eyes & so they don't see what players like Rice do off the ball.

I genuinely believe that the people who don't rate Rice would be & are crap at Chess. Anyone good at Chess would rate Rice.

The man pretty much blocks the central lane by himself on opposition attacks so attacks are more likely to come from out wide.

The guy is class and I've wanted him here ever since I saw him play for England.
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I am not sure if I am good at chess, last year when I was playing often I was approaching 1900, take from that what you will.

I think chess players would dislike Rice, hes proven to be very good defensively and been a big improvement on an already good defence.

He has also been part of the problem why Arsenal don't break teams down well, similar to us. If you wanna play 2 more attacking midfielders, like City, then at this level you need a deeper midfielder like Rodri who dictates play and adds a LOT to the team with the ball. Rice doesn't dictate squat, he often passes the ball to players in bad situations, often because when pressed he just hot potatoes the ball. He doesn't understand how to dictate, he does a very basic standard job for a player in that position.

If you want Rice to work then you need someone like Xavi in front of him so he doesn't need to do anything, but even with Xavi they still had someone behind him who could dictate play.
 

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Hammondo said:
I am not sure if I am good at chess, last year when I was playing often I was approaching 1900, take from that what you will.

I think chess players would dislike Rice, hes proven to be very good defensively and been a big improvement on an already good defence.

He has also been part of the problem why Arsenal don't break teams down well, similar to us. If you wanna play 2 more attacking midfielders, like City, then at this level you need a deeper midfielder like Rodri who dictates play and adds a LOT to the team with the ball. Rice doesn't dictate squat, he often passes the ball to players in bad situations, often because when pressed he just hot potatoes the ball. He doesn't understand how to dictate, he does a very basic standard job for a player in that position.

If you want Rice to work then you need someone like Xavi in front of him so he doesn't need to do anything, but even with Xavi they still had someone behind him who could dictate play.
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And we have someone like Xavi in front of him. :rolleyes:

Literally you are comparing him to the best CDM in the world right now under the best team and manager right now & saying because he doesn't play like Rodri that he isn't good enough.

It's like saying Garnacho is shit because he doesn't play like Messi does.

You can't compare such a player with the best in the world in his position and say he is shit.

When Xavi was playing that midfield 3 was also the best in the world.

Chess is about protecting the king.

Rice protects more than attacks the king.

One isn't more important than the other if you understand chess.
 

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QuietOn Fortune said:
And we have someone like Xavi in front of him. :rolleyes:

Literally you are comparing him to the best CDM in the world right now under the best team and manager right now & saying because he doesn't play like Rodri that he isn't good enough.

It's like saying Garnacho is shit because he doesn't play like Messi does.

You can't compare such a player with the best in the world in his position and say he is shit.

When Xavi was playing that midfield 3 was also the best in the world.

Chess is about protecting the king.

Rice protects more than attacks the king.

One isn't more important than the other if you understand chess.
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You have no one like Xavi in front of him, what are you talking about?

Chess is about protecting the king? How can you possibly simplify chess to just that? You won't do well only thinking about that.
 

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QuietOn Fortune said:
Ofcourse we have more than one problem, but just because we have 5 problems doesn't dilute the importance of each problem.

Having Rice this season would have made our problems go from 5 to 4.

Then going for a top quality and a less injury prone LB this summer would have made our problems go from 4 to 3 etc.

You cant build all of the team and deal with all the problems at once. You got to deal with them one at a time.

Rice would have solved arguably both our CDM issue aswell as even probably our captaincy or mentality issues aswell.
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Exactly this. I really dont get it when people say we have too many problems to spend big on one player. As if 100m can magically solve 5 problems. Which areas did we solve last summer again? 100m is a big number but in this case it practically guarantees one problem solved, for the next 5-7 years.

Totally understand if some still dont like him, but give me a Rice over 5 Amrabats any day.
 

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I have already said my thoughts. Overrated and a player that can run a lot and pass sideways. No better than average midfielder. When Arsenal struggle to score or when their attacking line don’t press and win balls you can see quality of Rice. West Ham level. It is easy to sit as a passenger but when you need to drive by yourself, it is another thing.
He might someday become a great player but he got a lot to work on. Should not play before Jorginho or Partey.
 

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90 + 5min said:
I have already said my thoughts. Overrated and a player that can run a lot and pass sideways. No better than average midfielder. When Arsenal struggle to score or when their attacking line don’t press and win balls you can see quality of Rice. West Ham level. It is easy to sit as a passenger but when you need to drive by yourself, it is another thing.
He might someday become a great player but he got a lot to work on. Should not play before Jorginho or Partey.
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He's overrated but this is a wild take.
 

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He is an excellent player who gives whoever he plays for a stable base to build from and the possibility of 7-8 years of a key position being covered. Utd should have been all over him.
 

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Robbie Boy said:
He's overrated but this is a wild take.
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I don't agree it is wild take my friend. If people look at micro level what he actually does and if it can be done by other players I think people would change their minds a little bit and not just listen to media and what picture media paint.

Remember the geese said:
Yes, I remember your little nuggets of wisdom. No better than McTominay wasn't it? :lol:
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While he is better runner and better defensively, McTominay is stronger player and more dangerous. So there is not big difference if any if you look at their game. It just depends on what kind of tactics you want to use.
 

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90 + 5min said:
While he is better runner and better defensively, McTominay is stronger player and more dangerous. So there is not big difference if any if you look at their game. It just depends on what kind of tactics you want to use.
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Oh he's more dangerous alright. There is an absolute chasm between them. McTominay specialises at nothing. He cannot play as a DM, he isn't technical or composed enough to do the job that Mainoo does, nor is he prolific/creative enough to start in a more advanced role. Rice on the other hand, is one of the better DM's in the world.
 

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90 + 5min said:
I don't agree it is wild take my friend. If people look at micro level what he actually does and if it can be done by other players I think people would change their minds a little bit and not just listen to media and what picture media paint.


While he is better runner and better defensively, McTominay is stronger player and more dangerous. So there is not big difference if any if you look at their game. It just depends on what kind of tactics you want to use.
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Rice is significantly better than mctominay.
 

90 + 5min

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Remember the geese said:
Oh he's more dangerous alright. There is an absolute chasm between them. McTominay specialises at nothing. He cannot play as a DM, he isn't technical or composed enough to do the job that Mainoo does, nor is he prolific/creative enough to start in a more advanced role. Rice on the other hand, is one of the better DM's in the world.
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Problem is that McTominay is not defensive midfielder. Even if managers played him there. We should not forget that Mourinho played him as a center back once or twice.

Why not compare them to goal threat? As I said, it is all about tactics. While Rice is better on some things, McTominay is better on other. I don't think there is big difference in the whole picture. And that about better DM in world? For me, not even close.
 

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I think it’s obvious we play at our best when he’s alongside Jorginho. Midfield, like defences, are about partnerships. I think in Arsenals case, it’s not even about labelling 1 as a 6, or 1 as an 8. I think you can alternate who plays the higher up of the 2. But what you want is 2 players that can compliment each other. In this case Rice is obviously the more dynamic stronger defensively of the 2, Jorginho more the line breaker in terms of passing.

Think Partey of old would have been a really good foil for Rice, unfortunately he’s looking finished. I don’t think Havertz is because he can’t offer the on the ball stuff that Jorginho or Partey can. I also think Xhaka would have been a really good partner for Rice, i don’t class him as the Xhaka replacement even though 1 came in and 1 left.

So this summer, we need to find that partner. Like Gundogan was for City. It looks like they are targeting Paqueta for that role. Liverpool have Mac Alister for that role. We need that type of player as well.
 

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90 + 5min said:
Problem is that McTominay is not defensive midfielder. Even if managers played him there. We should not forget that Mourinho played him as a center back once or twice.

Why not compare them to goal threat? As I said, it is all about tactics. While Rice is better on some things, McTominay is better on other. I don't think there is big difference in the whole picture. And that about better DM in world? For me, not even close.
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The problem is that McTominay is a nothing of a player. You say that he isn't a defensive midfielder, but he's hardly a creative/attacking midfielder either.

Rice clearly is one of the better DM's around. There's nothing really to argue about there. Not as good as Rodri of course, but at least he is good enough to start for a team who have ambitions of winning the biggest trophies. McTominay isn't even good enough to start for a struggling Manchester United. In my opinion, he isn't even good enough to be a squad player for us.
 

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I mean if you look strictly at their offensive returns this season it’s not that unreasonable to say McTominay is no worse than Rice, but obviously there’s more to judge a midfielder than that.

Neither is the profile of player I want as the 6 though, one is allergic to the ball and the other is only comfortable with it receiving front to goal.
 

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McTominay is better as a CM, CM, CF, CB and is better looking than Rice. Bigger tackle too.
 

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InfiniteBoredom said:
I mean if you look strictly at their offensive returns this season it’s not that unreasonable to say McTominay is no worse than Rice, but obviously there’s more to judge a midfielder than that.

Neither is the profile of player I want as the 6 though, one is allergic to the ball and the other is only comfortable with it receiving front to goal.
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Yeah, I'd say he can be more dangerous attacking in the box - I think he was in the academy as a striker so it's no surprise. He's also infinitely worse at pretty much everything a MF should be capable at than Rice, so it's massively faint praise, it really doesn't matter much.
 

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GoonerBear said:
I think it’s obvious we play at our best when he’s alongside Jorginho. Midfield, like defences, are about partnerships. I think in Arsenals case, it’s not even about labelling 1 as a 6, or 1 as an 8. I think you can alternate who plays the higher up of the 2. But what you want is 2 players that can compliment each other. In this case Rice is obviously the more dynamic stronger defensively of the 2, Jorginho more the line breaker in terms of passing.

Think Partey of old would have been a really good foil for Rice, unfortunately he’s looking finished. I don’t think Havertz is because he can’t offer the on the ball stuff that Jorginho or Partey can. I also think Xhaka would have been a really good partner for Rice, i don’t class him as the Xhaka replacement even though 1 came in and 1 left.

So this summer, we need to find that partner. Like Gundogan was for City. It looks like they are targeting Paqueta for that role. Liverpool have Mac Alister for that role. We need that type of player as well.
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IMHO you'd be best with a younger version of Jorginho. In the mould of players like Kimmich or Zubimendi.
 

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Remember the geese said:
... McTominay specialises at nothing. He .....
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This is blatantly false though. Mctominay is a specialist at arriving late in the box to be a goal threat. All his goals for United this season are proof. His top scoring for Scotland in the Euro qualifiers are proof. Y'all may not like/rate it. But constantly pretending it doesn't exist is extreme folly.
 

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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
This is blatantly false though. Mctominay is a specialist at arriving late in the box to be a goal threat. All his goals for United this season are proof. His top scoring for Scotland in the Euro qualifiers are proof. Y'all may not like/rate it. But constantly pretending it doesn't exist is extreme folly.
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No he isn't. He isn't a consistent goalscorer at all.
 

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arnie_ni said:
We expect casemiro to be a playmaker when we have the ball, we'd expect the same of rice and his passing isn't there yet. We also leave casemiro on a island defensively and he constantly has 2 or 3 players running at him in transition when we lose the ball.

The way our midfield is set up is madness. I'm not sure what profile of player we need to make it work. It isn't a criticism of rice as much as it is out set up. I don't think anyone would look great in it.
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To be fair Our midfield is currently set up with a man to man marking scheme it would look far better with a Rice in it, for he h the lrgs and when we setlle into a deep block he'd resultantly be a superior shied due to sheer mobility....

Though it still wouldn't account for the hole the back line leaves by being too far back when the front 6 presses.
 

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90 + 5min said:
I have already said my thoughts. Overrated and a player that can run a lot and pass sideways. No better than average midfielder. When Arsenal struggle to score or when their attacking line don’t press and win balls you can see quality of Rice. West Ham level. It is easy to sit as a passenger but when you need to drive by yourself, it is another thing.
He might someday become a great player but he got a lot to work on. Should not play before Jorginho or Partey.
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Nonsense. He’s progressed this season under a new coach. They overpaid but that’s not his fault.
 

yeaherino

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90 + 5min said:
I have already said my thoughts. Overrated and a player that can run a lot and pass sideways. No better than average midfielder. When Arsenal struggle to score or when their attacking line don’t press and win balls you can see quality of Rice. West Ham level. It is easy to sit as a passenger but when you need to drive by yourself, it is another thing.
He might someday become a great player but he got a lot to work on. Should not play before Jorginho or Partey.
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I disagree with the last part, but yeah outside of a laser shot and competent in the air, his quality going forward is mid table at best. I've seen people compare to him a prime Roy Keane, who was actually better at Rice at pretty much everything dealing with football.
 

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golden_blunder said:
Nonsense. He’s progressed this season under a new coach. They overpaid but that’s not his fault.
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I'm not sure he has. He plays in a much less reactive team, and one that sees a lot more of the ball, but I feel he displays the same limitations (in terms of creativity, passing range, appetite to pass forward) as he always has. I think there's a narrative around him that was set before the season started (not saying that's your case, more in the media) that has led to his performances not really being analysed or challenged.
 

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Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
IMHO you'd be best with a younger version of Jorginho. In the mould of players like Kimmich or Zubimendi.
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Agreed, I think Zubimendi seems to be the one that’s linked constantly, that link has been pretty consistent the last 18 months or so, the problem seems to be that he’s in no rush to leave Sociedad.
 

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GoonerBear said:
Agreed, I think Zubimendi seems to be the one that’s linked constantly, that link has been pretty consistent the last 18 months or so, the problem seems to be that he’s in no rush to leave Sociedad.
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I wonder. For me the only reason he is still there is the team who really wanted him badly last two years, who he desire to jokn too, namely Barcelona were too broke to pick him up. This summer should be different since Arsenal and Bayern his two latest suitors have motive and opportunity to firm up any interest and the cash to make it happen.
 
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