Is the "clear and obvious" rule a Howard Web rule or a FIFA rule?
VAR and Refs | General Discussion | Forest go into meltdown
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I support this one more.https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6CBCr8NmpA/?igsh=Y2Ntemh1NTEycjB2
Forest release a further statement!
I dont for a second believe that he would have endorsed Forest putting out a tweet that basically accused the officials of being bias especially when some of those officials are his friends.
That’s completely unrealistic. Clattenberg doesn’t have any friends.
For that one, the VAR drew crappy lines. No way was it that tight. That Coventry player was definitely offside.
I want them called out more when it’s fair. This season has been so annoying with all the refs getting attention and even becoming the main stories at different points in the season. PGMOL needs just as complete an overhaul as we do.
If ever there was a day to prove the whole thing is not fit for purpose, then today was it.
Var is pointless if it isn’t there to overrule wrong decisions. That’s literally supposed to be the entire point of it.
They are using 'clear and obvious' as the deciding factor which in of itself introduces another layer of subjectivity, it has just made things worse.
The lines actually made it seem closer than it looked to the normal eye
This is it. You’ve got someone looking at an obviously wrong decision, then having to ask themselves if it’s quite wrong enough to merit getting involved. Which leads to vastly different outcomes game to game.
The only reasons behind adding tech was to make it black and white - to take subjectivity out of it, and to also provide a safety net for incidents missed in real time.
In reality it’s led to even more controversy than before, (the exact thing it was supposed to remove) and ruin the fan experience by making it basically impossible to celebrate a goal. So why bother?
It bugs me when people say it’s only a toenail offside. Offside is offside. Should we rule out goals that are 1mm over the line cause it’s not over the line far enough?
Neville is running defence for the refs. I see nothing wrong with the Forest statement really, a VAR official with an obvious conflict of interest shouldn't be involved. The idea that teams should roll over for such poor officiating, or in the case of Michael Oliver being employed by City's owners, overt corruption, gets on my nerves.
Beyond hilarious seeing all the ABU's screaming conspiracy about the goal being ruled out while ignoring that Coventry got their penalty deep into injury time 
Same people would have said feck all it it had been down the other end
Same people would have said feck all it it had been down the other end
Said exactly the same. It’s complete nonsense.Beyond hilarious seeing all the ABU's screaming conspiracy about the goal being ruled out while ignoring that Coventry got their penalty deep into injury time
Same people would have said feck all it it had been down the other end
The meltdown on social media is quite something. Alleging corruptness etc. We seem to live rent free in rival fans heads.Beyond hilarious seeing all the ABU's screaming conspiracy about the goal being ruled out while ignoring that Coventry got their penalty deep into injury time
Same people would have said feck all it it had been down the other end
Offsides under VAR:
Man guesses which frame represents the one where the ball is played. He then guesses on a heavily pixilated image, taken from a camera about 70 yards away where a line should be drawn parallel to the attacker and one for the last defender. He also makes an assumption that the angles from that image are accurate.
People who defend VAR's involvement in incredibly tight offside decisions as "factual" need to stop. There's so much subjectivity and room for human error. Goals like the one disallowed yesterday, or Garnacho's against Arsenal earlier on this season, should never be ruled out by virtue of guess work that the frame used represented the moment the ball was played. VAR cannot determine that accurately when it's so close.
Man guesses which frame represents the one where the ball is played. He then guesses on a heavily pixilated image, taken from a camera about 70 yards away where a line should be drawn parallel to the attacker and one for the last defender. He also makes an assumption that the angles from that image are accurate.
People who defend VAR's involvement in incredibly tight offside decisions as "factual" need to stop. There's so much subjectivity and room for human error. Goals like the one disallowed yesterday, or Garnacho's against Arsenal earlier on this season, should never be ruled out by virtue of guess work that the frame used represented the moment the ball was played. VAR cannot determine that accurately when it's so close.
It's crazy how little there is about Chelsea getting robbed of a pen, 115fc state funded getting let off. It's all about an offside that was offside that stopped a plucky Coventry narrative over big bad United and glossing over how the match should've ended 3-2 to United as that AWB incident was not a pen. We have Grealish doing a star charging down a freekick with his arm out and AWB with his hand by his side, one is a stick on pen not given, one is a non pen given.
I've even seen city fans talking about Coventry being moral winners getting up voted.
Pep and city must feel invisible. Reminds me of the media and public furore of a Martial pen award in our 9-0 win over Southampton outstripping anything else.
I've even seen city fans talking about Coventry being moral winners getting up voted.
Pep and city must feel invisible. Reminds me of the media and public furore of a Martial pen award in our 9-0 win over Southampton outstripping anything else.
There needs to be a change. Clear and obvious kills the game.
have two refs in VAR. If there’s a penalty or a red two refs are shown footage. Would they give it or not? If they both agree - penalty or red card. Not clear and obvious - would they give it
have two refs in VAR. If there’s a penalty or a red two refs are shown footage. Would they give it or not? If they both agree - penalty or red card. Not clear and obvious - would they give it
i find it a bit amusing, but i do think Clattenburg is involved in it as he knows these twats.
It is this the same Clattenburg that spoke openly about how he discarded all rules just to allow Tottenham to bottle it on their own.
Distance is irrelevant, Young goes into the situation with his hand stretched out and he literally blocks a cross from going to the opposition.Handball I think it's fair not to give it given the distance and the third isn't clear from that video
The first one though
Who the feck is Gary Neville to suggest someone resigns? He’s lost the plot, the logic of not questioning refs is basically the same as you can’t question politicians or the police because they’re in positions of ‘authority’. Everything should be based on performance and if a professional body is making so many errors it needs a complete overhaul.
As I said yesterday, refereeing in and around the premier league is in the state it’s in because it’s had three decades of refs being protected from all criticism.
Exactly. They’ve even given them more air time and allow them these extra money making jobs in the Middle East. Howard Webb literally thinks he’s an A list celebrity the way he acts.
Agree with you 120%
I don't see anything wrong with forest statement 
neville,carragher and the lot should shut up as well. Just accepting mistakes and the stupid 'it evens itself over the season' bollocks to excuse mistakes from var.
Were in a loop where refs hardly make decisions thinking, ok var will sort it out if wrong. Meanwhile var don't wanna give it cos it will make the ref friend look wrong
There's no consistency either. If awb was a penalty than same game utd should have had one.
Howard webb has made it worse somehow.
neville,carragher and the lot should shut up as well. Just accepting mistakes and the stupid 'it evens itself over the season' bollocks to excuse mistakes from var.
Were in a loop where refs hardly make decisions thinking, ok var will sort it out if wrong. Meanwhile var don't wanna give it cos it will make the ref friend look wrong
There's no consistency either. If awb was a penalty than same game utd should have had one.
Howard webb has made it worse somehow.
I think the problem is the implication of cheating.I don't see anything wrong with forest statement
neville,carragher and the lot should shut up as well. Just accepting mistakes and the stupid 'it evens itself over the season' bollocks to excuse mistakes from var.
Were in a loop where refs hardly make decisions thinking, ok var will sort it out if wrong. Meanwhile var don't wanna give it cos it will make the ref friend look wrong
There's no consistency either. If awb was a penalty than same game utd should have had one.
Howard webb has made it worse somehow.
There are proper rules with guidelines and examples. It’s not really complicated. The crux is that you task referees to make a split second decision that then hinders VAR from intervening due to clear and obvious. Things happen fast, maybe what they only see is the moment the ball hits the arm without the context of movement, they make a decision and that’s it, VAR will never get involved unless it’s a handball situation the ref hasn’t seen. That’s why you end up with absurd outcomes where clear handballs are waived on, while less clear situations results in penalties. VAR should easily be able to identify If it’s a penalty or not, rather than focusing on «decisions on the pitch and clear and obvious faults».
Look at Clattenburgs comments on his actions in the Chelsea - Tottenham match, Mike Dean about his role as VAR, the complete lack of transparancy. If Attwell is a Luton fan, then it should be fecking obvious to everyone he should be nowhere near matches that can impact Luton.
It should also be obvious that Michael Oliver being someone who is paid by the 115 Charges FC owners should be nowhere near their games but here we are
The problem is the fact PGMOL do nothing to avoid obvious conflicts on interest, it needs to be called out, especially if they were warned prior to the game
I think there's no need to go down the conspiracy route when we have seen this season that it's less about conspiracies and more about referees being incompetent/the clear and obvious aspect of VAR.
These 2 things are not exclusive. It's evident there are massive instances of conflict of interest (at the very least) that are just accepted as BAU and brushed off. That doesn't mean that refs aren't also incompetent. I think there's absolutely a "need" to go down that route, considering most people involved in the sport are just blindly accepting these things.
Conflict of interest though doesn't equal cheating and that statement to me implies that Forest are saying cheating has taken place.
Sure, it can be subjective. But If you create VAR with a purpose to create a more fair game, I'd say it's probably fair enough to flag it for offside to equal out the other big mistake of giving the penalty. The mistake that lead to Coventry going into overtime in the first place.
VAR is terrible either way. Get rid.
Gary Neville: Mark Clattenburg should step down after Nottingham Forest statement | Football News | Sky Sports
This is getting pretty ridiculous. Hiring an ex-ref to have a go at refereeing, as if he was speaking with special authority or credibility. Atwell may be a Luton fan, but Clattenburg is a Forest employee. If anyone's biased here, it's him. Also he's a Newcastle fan, so should we then assume his refereeing was biased in all the games he reffed where the result had an impact on Newcastle? If not, why should we assume Atwell's is?
This is getting pretty ridiculous. Hiring an ex-ref to have a go at refereeing, as if he was speaking with special authority or credibility. Atwell may be a Luton fan, but Clattenburg is a Forest employee. If anyone's biased here, it's him. Also he's a Newcastle fan, so should we then assume his refereeing was biased in all the games he reffed where the result had an impact on Newcastle? If not, why should we assume Atwell's is?