Arsenal 2023/24 - Have bottled the Champions League and are Bottling the League

GoonerBear

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We all looked at the run in a while ago, and those games vs Spurs and Utd away stood out like sore thumbs.

Without being too disrespectful to Bournemouth and Everton, it’s looking increasingly like the Spurs and Utd games are going to go a long way to decide our season.

I’m not having tiredness as any sort of excuse now. Winning the way we did last night will have the players buzzing, we have passed that little stage where we were having to play every 3 days. 5 days between last nights game and the Spurs game, 6 days from then to Bournemouth, 8 days after that to Utd, and then 7 days to Everton at home.

It’s crunch time now.
 

henrysquire

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They'll win all their remaining games, but so will City. Which will hurt even more. Still can't believe they performed so badly against Villa.
 

Wengerista

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henrysquire said:
They'll win all their remaining games, but so will City. Which will hurt even more. Still can't believe they performed so badly against Villa.
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Yeah, I could take losing to Villa in some circumstances, they're the fourth best team in the league after all. What's difficult to take is that second half performance.
 

mathrait

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henrysquire said:
They'll win all their remaining games, but so will City. Which will hurt even more. Still can't believe they performed so badly against Villa.
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Wengerista said:
Yeah, I could take losing to Villa in some circumstances, they're the fourth best team in the league after all. What's difficult to take is that second half performance.
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We're running on fumes. We looked tired against Villa and Bayern. Some players even looked tired yesterday (e.g., Saliba, Gabriel, Saka), only difference is that Chelsea are atrocious. Spurs will be a very tough test, it'll be our 4th game in the space of 11 days.
 

awop

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Stretfordender786 said:
Can Arsenal win the league at old Trafford ? What results have to go their way for that to happen
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Arsenal would need to beat Spurs, Bournemouth and United while City would need to lose one and draw one from Brighton, Forest, Wolves and Fulham. Assuming we still have a better GD of course.
So don't worry it's not happening.
 

Egalitard

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Absolutely no idea what to expect from Tottenham on Sunday. I am sure they will be bang up for it but they haven't played in a couple of weeks and that doesn't always work to a team's advantage. Missing Udogie. Must-win for them as they are at risk of missing out on the CL now. And of course a must-win for us - there is less than no margin for error, we're already hoping for City to slip up. Probs the most consequential North London Derby since they beat us 3-0 in the effective CL play-off in 2022.

Somehow the end of the season seems simultaneously so near, but with so many big obstacles still to overcome. It's been a wild ride. Squeaky bum time.
 

CannonBalls

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awop said:
Arsenal would need to beat Spurs, Bournemouth and United while City would need to lose one and draw one from Brighton, Forest, Wolves and Fulham. Assuming we still have a better GD of course.
So don't worry it's not happening.
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City need to lose twice as with a draw they can still be level with us if we lose our last match and technically still can improve GD.
So for officially to win the title, City need lose twice. Never happening.
 

Sylar

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Arteta annoyance aside, I hope arsenal do it. Ideally they somehow win it without needing a win at old Trafford.

I know some arsenal fans have been making excuses already with the whole 'set expectations low to avoid disappointment' routine, but its the spurs game then one game a week.
City have the majority of their games away from home (three in the final week before the fa cup final).
Its a shame the two away are both in London so not much travel needed there.

I hope arsenal stick to their game and have learnt from last season
 

ThierryHenry14

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CannonBalls said:
City need to lose twice as with a draw they can still be level with us if we lose our last match and technically still can improve GD.
So for officially to win the title, City need lose twice. Never happening.
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Arsenal is more likely to drop points in the remaining fixtures than City. A good season regardless.
 

Klopper76

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ThierryHenry14 said:
Arsenal is more likely to drop points in the remaining fixtures than City. A good season regardless.
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You're clearly on an upward trajectory under Arteta, even if you don't win the league from here. Fully expect you to challenge again next season.

Where would you like to see Arsenal strengthen?
 

Egalitard

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Sylar said:
I know some arsenal fans have been making excuses already with the whole 'set expectations low to avoid disappointment' routine
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I don't know what is the correct way for Arsenal fans to behave. If we feel confident in the team we're arrogant and annoying, if we express any doubt it's some sort of copium routine. Personally am just emptying my head in here. I look at our fixtures and City's and I don't really believe this ends with us on top... Then I look at the league table, our goal difference and our record and think we look like we might be the best team.

Just chatter isn't it! All will be much more clear by Sunday afternoon.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Klopper76 said:
You're clearly on an upward trajectory under Arteta, even if you don't win the league from here. Fully expect you to challenge again next season.

Where would you like to see Arsenal strengthen?
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For me

A right winger to rotate/compete with Saka. (If Arteta decides Reiss Nelson is not up for the job)
A CM to rotate/compete with Odegaard (If Arteta decides Fabio Vieira is not up for the job. ESR should be given more opportunities)
A CDM/Deep lying play maker to rotate/compete with Jorginho (and if Partey leaves. Link to Zubimendi and Dogulas Luiz for many seasons)
A left inverted full back to rotate/compete with Zinchenko (Link to Ferdi Kadıoğlu)
A backup goalie as Ramsdale replacement (I think he will leave for 1st team football)
A young striker if Nketiah leaves for 1st team football
 

CannonBalls

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Il Prete Rosso said:
They can also draw 2 games and drop 4 points. That would give you an advantage.
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Yes but the question what what needs to happen for Arsenal to win PL at Old Trafford. 2 draws for City does not do that but would surely hive us an advantage. At this point most don't believe they would drop points in a single game let alone two.
 

Changeisgood

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Klopper76 said:
You're clearly on an upward trajectory under Arteta, even if you don't win the league from here. Fully expect you to challenge again next season.

Where would you like to see Arsenal strengthen?
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Id still go with a forward most of all but it does depend which one is available. I would personally like to see Isaac, but I am not sure how realistic that is. Other than that I would probably go with with a Douglas Luiz or Zubimendi. Probably could use a left back too. I know we are likely to see Timber there but I am not sure if that's a good idea long term. Also some back up to Raya.

The last two are pretty cheap, Looks like a 200 mil window to do it right.


Recoup a little of the cost by selling Jesus, Zinny, Nketiah, ESR, and then letting Soares and Jorginho go.

Net 120-130 mil spend maybe.
 

ThatsGreat

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City is going to win it. We will need them to get relegated or suffer a points deduction before anyone else has a chance.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Ironically Assna losing to Bayern means Spurs is motivated to beat City for their own CL chances, if you lot manage to beat Spurs then it’s possible the latter can manage to take points off 115 charges at home.
 

GoonerBear

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Changeisgood said:
Id still go with a forward most of all but it does depend which one is available. I would personally like to see Isaac, but I am not sure how realistic that is. Other than that I would probably go with with a Douglas Luiz or Zubimendi. Probably could use a left back too. I know we are likely to see Timber there but I am not sure if that's a good idea long term. Also some back up to Raya.

The last two are pretty cheap, Looks like a 200 mil window to do it right.


Recoup a little of the cost by selling Jesus, Zinny, Nketiah, ESR, and then letting Soares and Jorginho go.

Net 120-130 mil spend maybe.
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One thing is for sure, it will be a busy window.

We have guys like Tierney, Tavares, Lokonga, Patino out on loan that probably have no future here.
Cedric and Elneny are out of contract.

Players with big question marks, Ramsdale, Zinchenko, Partey, Smith-Rowe, Vieira, Nelson, Nketiah.

For me, a semi realistic wish list would see a striker (Isak), wide forward with pace that can play both wings (Nico Williams), midfielder (Zubimendi) and back up GK to replace Ramsdale.
 

Changeisgood

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GoonerBear said:
One thing is for sure, it will be a busy window.

We have guys like Tierney, Tavares, Lokonga, Patino out on loan that probably have no future here.
Cedric and Elneny are out of contract.

Players with big question marks, Ramsdale, Zinchenko, Partey, Smith-Rowe, Vieira, Nelson, Nketiah.

For me, a semi realistic wish list would see a striker (Isak), wide forward with pace that can play both wings (Nico Williams), midfielder (Zubimendi) and back up GK to replace Ramsdale.
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Will be an end of an era to see Elneny leave. He has been at the club forever. A little symptomatic of our previous deficiencies though. Not sure what we can get from Tierney, Tavares and Lokonga. Maybe around the 10 mil area? Should probably have sold Tierney outright. He has barely played and his value has gone down.Tavares would be even lower.

I think we will hold on to Vieira and probably Nelson.
 

Changeisgood

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When you look back at last summer's transfer season, it was a bit of a mess that turned out to be half decent. We wanted Rice but I am not even sure what the plan was as to where to put him. I think it was to replace Partey. We couldn't move Partey and now we are playing him in a different role...Havertz was in to replace Xhaka...that didnt work out. We lost Timber to an ACL, and Raya certainly didn't start very strong.

It's worked out reasonably in the end but I am hoping for a smoother transfer season.
 

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Changeisgood said:
When you look back at last summer's transfer season, it was a bit of a mess that turned out to be half decent. We wanted Rice but I am not even sure what the plan was as to where to put him. I think it was to replace Partey. We couldn't move Partey and now we are playing him in a different role...Havertz was in to replace Xhaka...that didnt work out. We lost Timber to an ACL, and Raya certainly didn't start very strong.

It's worked out reasonably in the end but I am hoping for a smoother transfer season.
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Was that the plan, though? We played a Rice - Partey - Odegaard midfield with Havertz up top in the Charity Shield. Had Partey been available, maybe the team that beat Chelsea would have been playing all along.
 

Changeisgood

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Daydreamer said:
Was that the plan, though? We played a Rice - Partey - Odegaard midfield with Havertz up top in the Charity Shield. Had Partey been available, maybe the team that beat Chelsea would have been playing all along.
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It is possible that's what was supposed to have happened. I am not sure what the plan was at all. And I think they really did try to move out Partey all together. We even saw Partey at RB (which should only be done in case of an emergency)and a healthy Gabriel was left out all together. It worked itself out but it was messy.
 

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Everton derailed Liverpool, you can bet your house Spurs is gonna ruin the party for Arsenal.
 

lex talionis

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I go back forth on whether I want Arsenal or City to take the spin around town in the open bus. It would an easy call to go with Arsenal but I find Arteta to be incredibly dislikeable. The upside of City willing it is that no one will care.
 

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Changeisgood said:
It is possible that's what was supposed to have happened. I am not sure what the plan was at all. And I think they really did try to move out Partey all together. We even saw Partey at RB (which should only be done in case of an emergency)and a healthy Gabriel was left out all together. It worked itself out but it was messy.
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Yes, the beginning of the season was certainly messy. I think one or both of Partey and Gabriel could have ended up leaving if we got a huge offer from Saudi Arabia. It looks like we missed that particular gravy boat (and I’m glad we did).
 

oneniltothearsenal

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Klopper76 said:
You're clearly on an upward trajectory under Arteta, even if you don't win the league from here. Fully expect you to challenge again next season.

Where would you like to see Arsenal strengthen?
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CF or CM depending on the best available player. Ideally, it would be a CF but probably need an up and coming CM as well considering Partey and Jorginho aren't long term solutions. Timber coming back should help the depth in the backline but maybe could do with a LB as well though less important IMO than CF and CM.
 

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mathrait said:
We're running on fumes. We looked tired against Villa and Bayern. Some players even looked tired yesterday (e.g., Saliba, Gabriel, Saka), only difference is that Chelsea are atrocious. Spurs will be a very tough test, it'll be our 4th game in the space of 11 days.
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We should not be running on fumes. We;ve had plenty of breaks.
 

ThierryHenry14

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I am surprised people think Arteta/Edu will go for a striker unless as Nkiteth replacement. Havertz and Jesus as of now are probably adequate and there are higher priorities in other areas.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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ThierryHenry14 said:
I am surprised people think Arteta/Edu will go for a striker unless as Nkiteth replacement. Havertz and Jesus as of now are probably adequate and there are higher priorities in other areas.
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What do you think is highest priority? CM? LB?
 

SER19

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Since christmas, Arsenal have 12 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss. Thats 37 points from 42 - the form needed for a 100 point season. The loss was against villa, the draw was away at city. They havent bottled anything and just further show that there is no competing with a side whos squad is about double the strength of the nearest challenger. Arsenal should have a title this year, arguably one last year, but theyve been cheated out of a spell of real re-emergence. Like plenty of other clubs cheated by city, who remain lauded by the media.

Adding context here- the 12th-15th most used players for arsenal in the pl this season are:

Trossard, Kiwior, Nketiah, Jorginho

For City, 12th to 15 are:

Doku, Gvrdiol, Grealish, Stones. Thats the guts of 300m on their 4 most used reserve players. Beyond these they have Nunes and De Bruyne. Every one of those 6 would start for arsenal or at least feature incredibly regularly.


The league is ruined. Klopp leaves with a measly 1 title - cheated of more. Arsenal will have none in 20 years - cheated.
 
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Changeisgood

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ThierryHenry14 said:
I am surprised people think Arteta/Edu will go for a striker unless as Nkiteth replacement. Havertz and Jesus as of now are probably adequate and there are higher priorities in other areas.
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Some of the games where we are not in full control are made worse because of the lack of a goal threat from our striker. We have seen glimpses with Havertz what that threat does. Jesus does virtually nothing for that here. He is very unlikely to bang in a lot of goals especially on the counter. He is unfortunately just not much of a threat in front of goal in general. We had City camped out in our half and realistically we had to wait for Martinelli to come on to have any real counter threat.I would like to see that threat developed here, and also the one where we can make something happen by driving it into the box more instead of tip toing.

We have the strongest defense in the league and we are getting Timber back. I am not so concerned about our defense personally. I would like to see a LCM though.
 

Changeisgood

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ThierryHenry14 said:
Imo definitely a right winger capable to compete/rotate with Saka. That should be the #1 priority. Then one to rotate/compete with Odegaard. These two players basically have no rest this season.
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I can agree, but this is where you sell Vieira and Nelson and replace with a better option who can play both those positions a bit. But this is not a huge transfer as I see it.
 

GoonerBear

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SER19 said:
Since christmas, Arsenal have 12 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss. Thats 37 points from 42 - the form needed for a 100 point season. The loss was against villa, the draw was away at city. They havent bottled anything and just further show that there is no competing with a side whos squad is about double the strength of the nearest challenger. Arsenal should have a title this year, arguably one last year, but theyve been cheated out of a spell of real re-emergence. Like plenty of other clubs cheated by city, who remain lauded by the media.

Adding context here- the 12th-15th most used players for arsenal in the pl this season are:

Trossard, Kiwior, Nketiah, Jorginho

For City, 12th to 15 are:

Doku, Gvrdiol, Grealish, Stones. Thats the guts of 300m on their 4 most used reserve players. Beyond these they have Nunes and De Bruyne. Every one of those 6 would start for arsenal or at least feature incredibly regularly.


The league is ruined. Klopp leaves with a measly 1 title - cheated of more. Arsenal will have none in 20 years - cheated.
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For us to realistically win the league, we are going to have to win all our 4 remaining games, and hope City drop points in 1 of them.

Adding to the totals you mention, your talking 16 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss. We could actually do that, and still come 2nd. That’s actually quite mental when you think about it.


Changeisgood said:
Some of the games where we are not in full control are made worse because of the lack of a goal threat from our striker. We have seen glimpses with Havertz what that threat does. Jesus does virtually nothing for that here. He is very unlikely to bang in a lot of goals especially on the counter. He is unfortunately just not much of a threat in front of goal in general. We had City camped out in our half and realistically we had to wait for Martinelli to come on to have any real counter threat.I would like to see that threat developed here, and also the one where we can make something happen by driving it into the box more instead of tip toing.

We have the strongest defense in the league and we are getting Timber back. I am not so concerned about our defense personally. I would like to see a LCM though.
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Yeah, we need a forward. We could end up top scorers, but also there’s been 5 games where we actually have failed to score, City and Liverpool have that combined. We’ve lost all but 1 of these 5 games.

We also have a strange record where we’ve actually only won 1 game when we conceded first, against Man Utd early in the season. We’ve lost every other game we’ve conceded first in. That’s a bit of a worry, that we don’t seem to have the powers of recovery there.
 
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