Who is the better player: Mbappe or Henry?

Mbappe is a much better player than Karl Henry.

AfonsoAlves said:

1) Yes, Ronaldo in 07-08, playing predominantly as a left inside forward/winger scored 42 goals. About 3 years before he reached his peak. I have no doubt Ronaldo at his peak would have hit 50+ a season in the PL on a consistent basis. La Liga defending isn't close to being as bad as people here make it out to be. It's not like it's a league that has absurd goalscoring rates for everyone either. The only one who managed to keep up with those two for a season was Luis Suarez....who also hit those absurd numbers for Liverpool too.

2) You think late 90's -> late 00's were riddled with drinking culture/lack of dieticians on shit mud stained pitches? I recommend to go back and watch some La Liga/Serie A and EPL highlights from then. It might surprise you that the level of professionalism, fitness was at a super high level already.

We're not in the 60's mate. You talk about modern hoarding of talent and then use Zidane who was part of the Galacticos, the original hoarders, Ronaldinho, part of a team that had Eto'o, Messi, Henry, Deco, Iniesta, Xavi, Yaya Toure, Edmilson, Puyol, Abidal, Zambrotta, Larsson, Giuly, etc.

Those attributes are also not an excuse for lack of consistency because there WERE consistent players. Ronaldinho was consistent for multiple seasons, only to give up entirely. That had nothing to do with the environment around him, because Messi/Xavi/Iniesta were also in that environment. Can I please remind you that Xavi is the same age as Ronaldinho and was a key player for Barcelona 4 years before Ronaldinho joined, and remained a key player 8 years after Ronaldinho left. If those factors affected 'dinho so much, why didn't it affect Xavi, or Iniesta who were on the same team?

You have players like Zidane playing super inconsistently at the league level, playing with players who were very consistent. Raul was consistent, Beckham was consistent, Makelele was consistent, Helguera, Hierro. Zidane was not. His peak was higher than all those, but he more often than not did not show up. Why use these excuses for Zidane when they didn't apply to the others?

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Ronaldo scored 42 in all competitions, his record was 31 in his best prem season.No way could he have had a 50 goals prem season.

Mbappe is a lesser version of Henry.

UnrelatedPsuedo said:

How old are you? That’s utter nonsense.
Henry’s career coincided with the best cohort of defenders in football history.
Mbappe hasn’t left a single team league yet.
Calm down.

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Old enough to have watched Henry at Monaco

kaiser1 said:

Old enough to have watched Henry at Monaco

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Then you’re plain mad. But all good. Opinions innit?

I'd take Mbappe. There's just this feeling of inevitability with him on the pitch. I'm sure it'll translate to CL titles at Madrid too.

UnrelatedPsuedo said:

Then you’re plain mad. But all good. Opinions innit?

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CL goals
Henry 50 in 122 games
Mbappe 48 in 73 games

NT goals
Henry 51 in 123 games
Mbappe 46 in 77 games

Mbappe won the world cup as a starter and one of the best players
Henry won the world cup as a bench player

kaiser1 said:

CL goals
Henry 50 in 122 games
Mbappe 48 in 73 games

NT goals
Henry 51 in 123 games
Mbappe 46 in 77 games

Mbappe won the world cup as a starter and one of the best players
Henry won the world cup as a bench player

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Oh, we’re just removing any historical context? Ok cool. You’re right. Numbers don’t lie.

Henry for me.
I'm too lazy to get into the stats to corroborate my argument.
He has a strong argument to be the best player of the premier league era in my opinion.

And the player I most feared when we came up against them.
He seemed to have absolutely everything you'd want in a forward including stunning technique and ridiculous volleys.

He was and is class personified.
A true role model of the game.

UnrelatedPsuedo said:

Oh, we’re just removing any historical context? Ok cool. You’re right. Numbers don’t lie.

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What are the historical context to those numbers that are missing?
Henry played in a more talented French squad who won everything, when they gave the team to him to lead he fumbled it in 2002, Zidane retired after Euro 2004 and Henry led France struggled to qualify for the world cup in a group with Israel Ireland Switzerland until they invited Zidane back

He under performed in the CL massively

Big games Henry regularly chokes, The type of performance Mbappe gave a the last world cup final, Henry never did

johnnyteutonic said:

He was and is class personified.
A true role model of the game.

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A true model after his infamous sour grapes in the 2006 CL Final, or his cheating versus Ireland?

The man had about as much 'class' as a school in mid-August.

Martial

kaiser1 said:

What are the historical context to those numbers that are missing?
Henry played in a more talented French squad who won everything, when they gave the team to him to lead he fumbled it in 2002, Zidane retired after Euro 2004 and Henry led France struggled to qualify for the world cup in a group with Israel Ireland Switzerland until they invited Zidane back

He under performed in the CL massively

Big games Henry regularly chokes, The type of performance Mbappe gave a the last world cup final, Henry never did

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I agree that Henry's France career underwhelmed and is in stark contrast to Mbappe's big tournament consistency. And that's partly down to him and partly due to a lack of synergy with Zidane. But Henry's Euro 2000 final was a tremendous performance up against an Italian back line including Nesta, Cannavaro and Maldini. And I'm not seeing how he under-performed in Europe, given the track record below.

• 97/98 Champions League - Henry scores 7 in 9 games, including in the semi-final against Juventus.
• 99/00 UEFA Cup run - Henry scores 7 in 7, including 3 against Spanish champions Deportivo.
• Big performances in the Champions League - goal and assist home to Bayern (the best team in Europe that year) and goal against Valencia in the quarters (best defence in Europe) in 00/01, hat-trick away to Roma in 02, 2 goals and 2 assists in the 5-1 demolition of Inter in the San Siro in 03/04, that solo goal away to Real Madrid and a goal and assist in 2-0 win against Juve in 05/06

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And I'd say the same for anyone downplaying Mbappe's CL performances - he has a sustained track record of turning over many top sides.

Red the Bear said:

Gerd muller scored an outrageous amount of goals and I think he did it with a better ratio than Messi even, won everything there was to win and pretty much scored in all the finals along the way and yet barely anyone talks about him being a candidate for the best that there ever was.

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Muller won a Ballon d'or with good competition also i may had, something that Henry never has able to win.

kaiser1 said:

What are the historical context to those numbers that are missing?
Henry played in a more talented French squad who won everything, when they gave the team to him to lead he fumbled it in 2002, Zidane retired after Euro 2004 and Henry led France struggled to qualify for the world cup in a group with Israel Ireland Switzerland until they invited Zidane back

He under performed in the CL massively

Big games Henry regularly chokes, The type of performance Mbappe gave a the last world cup final, Henry never did

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Man alive. You won’t listen, but quick ones.

1. The era that Henry played in included dozens of centre halves that would walk into every team on the planet right now. Mbappe faces a good set of defenders once or twice a year.

2. France are head and shoulders the best team on the planet right now. Henry’s France was not that much better than everyone else, despite the squad they had.

3. More teams are just bad now internationally than when Henry played.

I know you don’t care what I say. I don’t much care in return.

/end

redallover87 said:

Ronaldo scored 42 in all competitions, his record was 31 in his best prem season.No way could he have had a 50 goals prem season.

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Hmm, depending on the team…2012 Ronaldo I’d say could. He was on it that year.

———

Mbappe should easily be a better pundit at least. Henry says the most basic shit and acts like he is spouting something ingenious.

There are lots of United players where I have felt comfortable choosing them over other brilliant players and genuinely it.

Without hesitation I would choose Keane over Viera. Rio over Terry, Campbell or any European legend. I would choose early Giggs over pretty much any other winger. And I would take Scholes over Modric or Xavi. I get that the other players are great but I genuinely believe in my choice.

Only two times have a tried to go with United only to realise years later I was kidding myself. The most obvious is Ronaldo v Messi. I stopped myself from enjoying Messi because I was too into Ronaldo needing to be better. Looking back Messi was a genius and just had something extra.

The other was Henry v Ruud. I convinced myself at the time that Ruud was better but really Henry was phenomenal and seems so underrated in the discussion of strikers. He left Arsenal too late to get the level of fame he deserved. He played in an era of monster defenders and is just so much better than Mbappe.

Neville said a couple of years back that defenders aren't taught to defend. We rely on systems that remove the individual. Football is poorer for it and unfortunately we are lacking really great defenders and attackers also.

UnrelatedPsuedo said:

Man alive. You won’t listen, but quick ones.

1. The era that Henry played in included dozens of centre halves that would walk into every team on the planet right now. Mbappe faces a good set of defenders once or twice a year.

2. France are head and shoulders the best team on the planet right now. Henry’s France was not that much better than everyone else, despite the squad they had.

3. More teams are just bad now internationally than when Henry played.

I know you don’t care what I say. I don’t much care in return.

/end

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If you look at the defending in the Maradona to R9 era compared to now, it is completely different level. What was acceptable defending back then today is a yellow card or red card. You can't compare stats from today vs the old days. I doubt anyone will say Mbappe is more technical than R9 or Maradona because he scored more goals in CL or World cup. Every one with eyes can see the huge difference in class.

Gio said:

I agree that Henry's France career underwhelmed and is in stark contrast to Mbappe's big tournament consistency. And that's partly down to him and partly due to a lack of synergy with Zidane. But Henry's Euro 2000 final was a tremendous performance up against an Italian back line including Nesta, Cannavaro and Maldini. And I'm not seeing how he under-performed in Europe, given the track record below.

And I'd say the same for anyone downplaying Mbappe's CL performances - he has a sustained track record of turning over many top sides.

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When Zidane was injured in 2002, and when he left France in 2004 and it became Henry's team how did they fare? They almost didn't qualify for 2006 world cup until they called Zidane back who took them to the world cup final again, In Euro 2008 when Zidane was gone how did they fare?
Henrys career in Juventus one of the big teams of that time is better forgotten
In the 2000 UEFA cup final, Henry choked that final massively for Galatasaray to win
Despite their domestic dominance, Henry led Arsenal was barely making it to the CL knockouts, It wasn't due to the PL strength cos Man Utd was making it regularly.
2006 CL final we all knew how Henry choked that game

Henry is probably the best EPL player of all time but in CL and NT, he massively under performed

Henry had speed advantage over many of the players of his time, right now an average footballer is faster and fitter than they were at Henrys peak.

kaiser1 said:

When Zidane was injured in 2002, and when he left France in 2004 and it became Henry's team how did they fare? They almost didn't qualify for 2006 world cup until they called Zidane back who took them to the world cup final again, In Euro 2008 when Zidane was gone how did they fare?
Henrys career in Juventus one of the big teams of that time is better forgotten
In the 2000 UEFA cup final, Henry choked that final massively for Galatasaray to win
Despite their domestic dominance, Henry led Arsenal was barely making it to the CL knockouts, It wasn't due to the PL strength cos Man Utd was making it regularly.
2006 CL final we all knew how Henry choked that game

Henry is probably the best EPL player of all time but in CL and NT, he massively under performed

Henry had speed advantage over many of the players of his time, right now an average footballer is faster and fitter than they were at Henrys peak.

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He absolutely did when Arsenal was one man down since 18 min. He definitely choked that game. How could he not winning that game against Barcelona with Ronaldinho in his prime with one man down. He bottled it.

redallover87 said:

Ronaldo scored 42 in all competitions, his record was 31 in his best prem season.No way could he have had a 50 goals prem season.

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Ronaldo's RM version was an absolute unit in terms of goalscoring. I could see him hitting a few seasons around 40 goals in the premier league and I wouldn't be surprised if he managed 50 goals in an odd season either tbh.

ThierryHenry14 said:

He absolutely did when Arsenal was one man down since 18 min. He definitely choked that game. How could he not winning that game against Barcelona with Ronaldinho in his prime with one man down. He bottled it.

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Two 1v1 vs Valdes which would have certainly won that game, he blew it or lets say choked/bottled it

doubleohseven said:

A true model after his infamous sour grapes in the 2006 CL Final, or his cheating versus Ireland?

The man had about as much 'class' as a school in mid-August.

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Mate, it's been years although I must admit I forgot about the Ireland incident!

I think he's been very classy in what I've seen of him since he's retired at least.

He's one of the only ex-players I can tolerate as a pundit.
Also he does say some positive stuff about our club, that probably helps me in my perception of him.

At respective times in their careers easily Mbappe. Don't think Mbappe will reach Henry's peak as an all round player though.

We'll find out when Mbappe goes to Madrid and either makes them a better team or a worse team. He'll put up numbers. I'm not 100% sure he's going to improve their results.

UnrelatedPsuedo said:

Man alive. You won’t listen, but quick ones.

1. The era that Henry played in included dozens of centre halves that would walk into every team on the planet right now. Mbappe faces a good set of defenders once or twice a year.

2. France are head and shoulders the best team on the planet right now. Henry’s France was not that much better than everyone else, despite the squad they had.

3. More teams are just bad now internationally than when Henry played.

I know you don’t care what I say. I don’t much care in return.

/end

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I'm not sure there is much here that can be objectively established, with respect. Maybe there are some studies out there that demonstrate that it was harder to score goals in the 90s, I don't know. Certainly, the top guys in Henry's era have quite poor CL scoring records compared to the top guys more recently (cf Raul, Henry, Sheva's records v Lewa, Benzema, Mbappe.....leaving out Messi and Ronaldo of course because they are ridiculous). The outlier for the Henry era would be Ruud, who got 56 goals in 73 games. Why was he able to do what the others of his era could not?

johnnyteutonic said:

Mate, it's been years although I must admit I forgot about the Ireland incident!

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That's dead on, chief, it seems everyone else has as well.

UnrelatedPsuedo said:

1. The era that Henry played in included dozens of centre halves that would walk into every team on the planet right now. Mbappe faces a good set of defenders once or twice a year.

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Henry player the majority of that era for Arsenal in the English league, which had some exceptionally poor defenders at the time.

Arsenal usually left Europe by the QF in his pomp, too.

UnrelatedPsuedo said:

2. France are head and shoulders the best team on the planet right now. Henry’s France was not that much better than everyone else, despite the squad they had.

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France are so because of the likes of Mbappe, who is the star of their attack. Informing us Henry could not elevate France similarly is not a compelling argument in his favour.

ThierryHenry14 said:

He absolutely did when Arsenal was one man down since 18 min. He definitely choked that game. How could he not winning that game against Barcelona with Ronaldinho in his prime with one man down. He bottled it.

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Henry missed two good chances to bury it, and after defeat spat his dummy out, accusing Barca and the ref of all sorts.

At the WC that year, he dived to get Puyol booked and smiled as he was substituted (France scored from the resultant free-kick). Of course, he had no compunction about later joining Barca, who improved when they replaced him.

The whole: this era, that era, that player won't cut it, this player yes, at the end of the day is quite silly.

Henry so far (Killian can improve, stay the same or get worse), has been a more intelligent and all around better player. With more involment in a game per se. He could be wastefull too, he could have his game where he didn't participate that much and lacked a bit of timing regarding huge moments. Yet this last thing feels worse than what in reality was just because we have that far from sane expectations with Special players delivering every fecking time (sometimes not even taking in account context).
Killian has been a player most of times of moments, devastating quite a lot of them. He has a strange personality, he is not a ball of fire, he ain't a player giving it all full time, he ain't indolent either...Yet he is many times THERE to be determinant in many matches, even after missing some sitters, or "nulified", these doesn't affect him that much.

There isn't either a huge gap between the too regarding pace (maybe Killian is faster, dunno) both have a rocket in their arses.
Kiki is more of a goaslcorer (that still produces lots of assists of course, like CR, Suarez, etc etc) and Titi more of a playmaking/forward, none of them a clear old fashioned striker or number 9, closer to a second forward that likes to start from a flank with lots of goals as a consequence of their ability.
Both really skilled that preffer to make their runs with more space, yet nonetheless capable of resolve if they found themselves in tight situations (they DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE Zizou/Zico/RG/Maradona/Messi level in such situations to be GREAT or at least very good).

In any case, there still lots of carreer for Mbappe to be called among the best ever that played this game (in my view as a forward, for many others maybe as a more than that), as there is time to royally fvcked it up or just continue having a great carreer like the one he has already achieved.
Time will tell...at the end of the day with any player is more who we preffer, like more his game, than those usual silly "Henry is 5 times the player Kiki was (or otherwise)".

RG77 said:

Hmm, depending on the team…2012 Ronaldo I’d say could. He was on it that year.

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Gonçalo Motta said:

Ronaldo's RM version was an absolute unit in terms of goalscoring. I could see him hitting a few seasons around 40 goals in the premier league and I wouldn't be surprised if he managed 50 goals in an odd season either tbh.

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He never managed 50 league goals for Madrid, just so we're clear. His highest tally was 48. Excluding penalties 38. Only Messi got to 50 league goals in the last like 50 years

giorno said:

He never managed 50 league goals for Madrid, just so we're clear. His highest tally was 48. Excluding penalties 38. Only Messi got to 50 league goals in the last like 50 years

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Cool data

As a side note:
This year with a suppose weaker League and with Madrid/Barca/Aleti still having the best roosters, the goalscorers table is lead by a Girona player Dovbyk with 20, second Sorloth from Villareal and after them with less than 20 goals appear Jude, Lewa and Grizzie. This is a more tangible
and accurate showcase closer in time and in a more or less similar enviroment showing how great of goalscorers (and providers) were Messi and CR in their prime, even with or without juggernauts of teams backing them, because even in their best periods Real or Barca weren't always playing that great as a team.
There are so many factors involved, that is silly is trying to create those fantasies of this player will not score at all or would have scored tons in some period in such League.

So for me let's focus in what WE ACTUALLY REALLY witness from any player in their respective team, league and period.

Henry for me man. I recall some masterclass performances in the CL too, there was a game against Real (can’t recall the year) in Madrid, Henry was phenomenal. Best player in the game among all those big names.

SoCross said:

Henry for me man. I recall some masterclass performances in the CL too, there was a game against Real (can’t recall the year) in Madrid, Henry was phenomenal. Best player in the game among all those big names.

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21 feb 2006. He played phenomenally well.

When Mbappe is able to impact an entire nation like Henry did in 2009, we can start talking about who the best player is.

Fortitude said:

Errr...

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I'm almost sure that it was a joke.

kaiser1 said:

CL goals
Henry 50 in 122 games
Mbappe 48 in 73 games

NT goals
Henry 51 in 123 games
Mbappe 46 in 77 games

Mbappe won the world cup as a starter and one of the best players
Henry won the world cup as a bench player

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Giroud has more national team goals than Henry. Miroslav Klose is the top scorer in World Cup history.

Just looking at stats out of context is pointless.

Messi vs Ronaldo comparisons for the last 15 years has skewed judging players on nothing but goals and assists.

For example, Mbappe at club level has 15 less combined goals and assists in his career already than Roberto Baggio in 232 less games. You're not going to sit there and pretend Mbappe is better than Baggio.

I voted for Henry, for now.
Frankly speaking Mbappe, by the looks of it, will be regarded as the better player in the future, he still has a good chunk of a career left in him.

This isn't even a debate. It's Henry. The answer isn't based on nostalgia, it's just based on the overall technical and IQ football abilities of both players. Henry is simply in a different class.