Who is the better player: Mbappe or Henry?

Who is the better player?


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MiceOnMeth

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If they didn't tear their knees in half before trying to do so as he skins them for the 6th time in a half.
Do you genuinely think Messi and Ronaldo would put up their Barca and Madrid numbers in t
Best means different things for different people. You mean best and to you it seems to mean, "Their absolute very best ceilng even if it doesn't happen very often."

My 'best' involves a combination of reliability, consistency, output and influence.

If you said to me over 5 years and 38 game league season + europe, who i would have, I would choose De Bruyne over both.

Zidane spent half the league games doing feck all and milling about (I did an analysis of this in the Bellingham thread if you want to check it out)

Ronaldinho peaked for 3 years and then turned absolutely shite through bad fitness and a complete lack of interest.

And yes, Mbappe has clearly had a better career than R9, he had 3 great seasons amid ACL tears and then obesity.

If your point is "Was R9 from 1996-1998 better than any version of Mbappe?" Yeah sure, but that's not what "best" means.

Many players have had higher peaks than Cristiano Ronaldo, doesn't mean they are better than him though.
Modern players are fitter, better protected,playing on pristine pitches, diets tuned in, no drinking culture, playing for top teams who horde all the talent and make it to the champions league quarters/semi finals is almost a given for psg/city/Madrid now. So yeah Mbappe and De Bruyne are far more consistent than their peers of 20 years ago but they also have so much more of an advantage and a platform to be that consistent imo but I just feel kind of cold towards them and can't help but rate the likes of R9, Dinho,Zidane far higher (maybe I'm just a nostalgia merchant)
 

AfonsoAlves

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Do you genuinely think Messi and Ronaldo would put up their Barca and Madrid numbers in t

Modern players are fitter, better protected,playing on pristine pitches, diets tuned in, no drinking culture, playing for top teams who horde all the talent and make it to the champions league quarters/semi finals is almost a given for psg/city/Madrid now. So yeah Mbappe and De Bruyne are far more consistent than their peers of 20 years ago but they also have so much more of an advantage and a platform to be that consistent imo but I just feel kind of cold towards them and can't help but rate the likes of R9, Dinho,Zidane far higher (maybe I'm just a nostalgia merchant)
1) Yes, Ronaldo in 07-08, playing predominantly as a left inside forward/winger scored 42 goals. About 3 years before he reached his peak. I have no doubt Ronaldo at his peak would have hit 50+ a season in the PL on a consistent basis. La Liga defending isn't close to being as bad as people here make it out to be. It's not like it's a league that has absurd goalscoring rates for everyone either. The only one who managed to keep up with those two for a season was Luis Suarez....who also hit those absurd numbers for Liverpool too.

2) You think late 90's -> late 00's were riddled with drinking culture/lack of dieticians on shit mud stained pitches? I recommend to go back and watch some La Liga/Serie A and EPL highlights from then. It might surprise you that the level of professionalism, fitness was at a super high level already.

We're not in the 60's mate. You talk about modern hoarding of talent and then use Zidane who was part of the Galacticos, the original hoarders, Ronaldinho, part of a team that had Eto'o, Messi, Henry, Deco, Iniesta, Xavi, Yaya Toure, Edmilson, Puyol, Abidal, Zambrotta, Larsson, Giuly, etc.

Those attributes are also not an excuse for lack of consistency because there WERE consistent players. Ronaldinho was consistent for multiple seasons, only to give up entirely. That had nothing to do with the environment around him, because Messi/Xavi/Iniesta were also in that environment. Can I please remind you that Xavi is the same age as Ronaldinho and was a key player for Barcelona 4 years before Ronaldinho joined, and remained a key player 8 years after Ronaldinho left. If those factors affected 'dinho so much, why didn't it affect Xavi, or Iniesta who were on the same team?

You have players like Zidane playing super inconsistently at the league level, playing with players who were very consistent. Raul was consistent, Beckham was consistent, Makelele was consistent, Helguera, Hierro. Zidane was not. His peak was higher than all those, but he more often than not did not show up. Why use these excuses for Zidane when they didn't apply to the others?
 

GatoLoco

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One is a retired player, the other one may have up to 8 - 10 years left in his career.

Let's talk in 10 years time and we'll see.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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I'm not one to put Zidane on some huge pedestal over quite a few other excellent/great offensive-midfielders in terms of ability and effectiveness, but this inconsistency thing is getting overblown. It has a core of truth, he was no a game in-game out workhorse, but if he was really just drifting about doing nothing for roughly half of every season, and not showing up more often than not, he'd have been kicked out of Juve and Madrid after a few seasons. Probably doesn't even get to the latter.
 

JPRouve

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I'm not one to put Zidane on some huge pedestal over quite a few other excellent/great offensive-midfielders in terms of ability and effectiveness, but this inconsistency thing is getting overblown. It has a core of truth, he was no a game in-game out workhorse, but if he was really just drifting about doing nothing for roughly half of every season, and not showing up more often than not, he'd have been kicked out of Juve and Madrid after a few seasons. Probably doesn't even get to the latter.
I made that point in the past, the issue with Zidane is that he had a high floor but his ceiling was a genuine 10/10 and he gave the impression to just flick a switch. The only player that I have seen do something similar was Messi during his two seasons with Barcelona.
 

AfonsoAlves

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I'm not one to put Zidane on some huge pedestal over quite a few other excellent/great offensive-midfielders in terms of ability and effectiveness, but this inconsistency thing is getting overblown. It has a core of truth, he was no a game in-game out workhorse, but if he was really just drifting about doing nothing for roughly half of every season, and not showing up more often than not, he'd have been kicked out of Juve and Madrid after a few seasons. Probably doesn't even get to the latter.
he got dropped at juve twice, once in 97 and once in 1999. His 97 season was particularly awful and was dropped in the final quarter of the season and juve finished 7th.

Also to add, he never had a fully settled position at Madrid either, often being number 10 often deployed as a left playmaking winger.

he was also horrendous in 1998 start of the season. 2 red cards for violent conduct, bottom of the group in CL and no goals or assists until December

always, without fail, showed up for France though
 

giorno

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he got dropped at juve twice, once in 97 and once in 1999. His 97 season was particularly awful and was dropped in the final quarter of the season and juve finished 7th.

Also to add, he never had a fully settled position at Madrid either, often being number 10 often deployed as a left playmaking winger.

he was also horrendous in 1998 start of the season. 2 red cards for violent conduct, bottom of the group in CL and no goals or assists until December

always, without fail, showed up for France though
You are not good with dates
 

The holy trinity 68

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Since Messi and Ronaldo, all people do is compare goals and assists. I watched Henry every week for Arsenal and I have watched a fair bit of Mbappe. Henry could do things on a football pitch that Mbappe could only dream of.

Discussing Mbappe stats in the league is pointless, the league is far behind the PL even back then.

Yes Mbappe has a lot of goals for France and in the World Cup, but Giroud also has more goals for France than Henry, and Klose is the World Cup top scorer. It doesn't mean Mbappe is better.

Speed = both
Dribbling = both
Creativity = Henry
Skills = Henry
Shooting = Henry
Free Kicks = Henry
Passing = Henry
Ingenuity = Henry
In the air = Henry

I genuinely don't think Mbappe is better at anything than prime Henry
 

AfonsoAlves

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Since Messi and Ronaldo, all people do is compare goals and assists. I watched Henry every week for Arsenal and I have watched a fair bit of Mbappe. Henry could do things on a football pitch that Mbappe could only dream of.

Discussing Mbappe stats in the league is pointless, the league is far behind the PL even back then.

Yes Mbappe has a lot of goals for France and in the World Cup, but Giroud also has more goals for France than Henry, and Klose is the World Cup top scorer. It doesn't mean Mbappe is better.

Speed = both
Dribbling = both
Creativity = Henry
Skills = Henry
Shooting = Henry
Free Kicks = Henry
Passing = Henry
Ingenuity = Henry
In the air = Henry

I genuinely don't think Mbappe is better at anything than prime Henry
Do you watch Mbappe for PSG?

Premier League is indeed stronger than Ligue 1, but Mbappe absolutely shits on everybody from a height.

Some of the attributes mapping also doesn't make sense. What is the different between creativity and ingenuity?

Mbappe is faster than Henry. Henry looked "fast" because of his ability to "glide" and his running style was very aesthetic but he wasn't a raw physical pace merchant like Mbappe/Bale are.

What are "skills?" Do you mean tricks? Like stepovers, roulette's etc? Cause Henry wasn't exactly know for that either. Or do you mean things like touch and technique? If it's the latter, there's very little difference between the two.

Mbappe is very strong in the air, i don't know how you can say Henry was better. Are you assuming because Mbappe is small he isnt excellent aerially?

What do you mean by shooting? Long distance? Finishing chances? Because finishing chances and not missing is a hallmark of Mbappe, and i've seen a lot of Henry where he should have scored and didn't.

You also missed out the physicality aspect, which Mbappe's main asset. He is rapid, built like a tank, crazy agile and excellent balance and has immense power and drive on the ball, which isn't Henry, who is more elegant and dancy.

Overall, Henry is a more creative, elegant player who is better at set pieces. Mbappe is more physical, direct and more of a machine. There isn't that much difference between them in terms of ability.
 
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doubleohseven

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Mbappe, and by some distance, also.

always, without fail, showed up for France though
Nope.

He was the type who gave his all when the getting was good. Whenever Zidane was unavailable in WC2002, France flopped, with Henry petulantly getting himself sent off in their second game.

There was something of a renaissance in 2006, but that France side relied on Zidane and their wide men to make their mark. His later France career consisted of low-energy performances and high-profile instances of cheating.
 

devaneios

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Do you watch Mbappe for PSG?

Premier League is indeed stronger than Ligue 1, but Mbappe absolutely shits on everybody from a height.

Some of the attributes mapping also doesn't make sense. What is the different between creativity and ingenuity?

Mbappe is faster than Henry. Henry looked "fast" because of his ability to "glide" and his running style was very aesthetic but he wasn't a raw physical pace merchant like Mbappe/Bale are.

What are "skills?" Do you mean tricks? Like stepovers, roulette's etc? Cause Henry wasn't exactly know for that either. Or do you mean things like touch and technique? If it's the latter, there's very little difference between the two.

Mbappe is very strong in the air, i don't know how you can say Henry was better. Are you assuming because Mbappe is small he isnt excellent aerially?

What do you mean by shooting? Long distance? Finishing chances? Because finishing chances and not missing is a hallmark of Mbappe, and i've seen a lot of Henry where he should have scored and didn't.

You also missed out the physicality aspect, which Mbappe's main asset. He is rapid, built like a tank, crazy agile and excellent balance and has immense power and drive on the ball, which isn't Henry, who is more elegant and dancy.

Overall, Henry is a more creative, elegant player who is better at set pieces. Mbappe is more physical, direct and more of a machine. There isn't that much difference between them in terms of ability.
Are Mbappé touch and technique close to Henry's? Is missing clear chances more of a hallmark of Henry than Mbappé? Didn't Henry have excellent balance, immense power and drive on the ball? Asking doesn't disprove anything, but I really doubt many who watched both regularly will agree with that.

What do you mean by "more direct"? I don't think it's necessarily a good thing, going by the literal sense. Henry was a very direct player when the moment required that; he didn't fool around with ball when the team had an opening and his dribbling was very vertical, but he also could retain the ball very well in convenient positions or situations, using his technique and strenght. How do you see this "more direct" characteristic as an advantage for Mbappé? I also disagree that Mbappé is more physical, as Henry was just as fast and stronger(while Mbappé is more agile), but there's no point in insisting on that. I'm not sure what being "more of a machine" means, as you had already mentioned physical aspects.

Also, both are weak in the air. You're overrating a lot Mbappé's air game. That shouldn't count for anything for either of them.
 
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luke511

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Since Messi and Ronaldo, all people do is compare goals and assists. I watched Henry every week for Arsenal and I have watched a fair bit of Mbappe. Henry could do things on a football pitch that Mbappe could only dream of.

Discussing Mbappe stats in the league is pointless, the league is far behind the PL even back then.

Yes Mbappe has a lot of goals for France and in the World Cup, but Giroud also has more goals for France than Henry, and Klose is the World Cup top scorer. It doesn't mean Mbappe is better.

Speed = both
Dribbling = both
Creativity = Henry
Skills = Henry
Shooting = Henry
Free Kicks = Henry
Passing = Henry
Ingenuity = Henry
In the air = Henry

I genuinely don't think Mbappe is better at anything than prime Henry

Ooh la la
 

Kablamo

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Mbappe.

Loved Henry's goal against Sparta Prague, etc, but in all honesty he was just a more refined version of Theo Walcott.
 

AfonsoAlves

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Mbappe, and by some distance, also.



Nope.

He was the type who gave his all when the getting was good. Whenever Zidane was unavailable in WC2002, France flopped, with Henry petulantly getting himself sent off in their second game.

There was something of a renaissance in 2006, but that France side relied on Zidane and their wide men to make their mark. His later France career consisted of low-energy performances and high-profile instances of cheating.
Erm, I was referring to Zidane :lol:
 

al.gabiru

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Henry's peak was in EPL, so on a predominantly English forum, even if it's not an Arsenal forum, he would have an advantage. Henry's prime was part of the personal memories of many people here

But Mbappe has already surpassed him as a player, with more goals, assists and dribbles over different seasons and tournaments
 

Red the Bear

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Gerd muller scored an outrageous amount of goals and I think he did it with a better ratio than Messi even, won everything there was to win and pretty much scored in all the finals along the way and yet barely anyone talks about him being a candidate for the best that there ever was.
 

HTG

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Even though I can’t stand him, it’s got to be Mbappe.
 

do.omb

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Gerd muller scored an outrageous amount of goals and I think he did it with a better ratio than Messi even, won everything there was to win and pretty much scored in all the finals along the way and yet barely anyone talks about him being a candidate for the best that there ever was.
That is, to be fair, only because people don't know ball. Gerd _should_ be up there
 

Red the Bear

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That is, to be fair, only because people don't know ball. Gerd _should_ be up there
He's definitely in the top 10 for me just doesn't reach the top echelon of Maradona Messi Pele which is fair enough.

The point I was trying to make is that mbappe is nowhere near as effective as muller was and yet people would make the claim that he's up there with the very best anyway.
 

Nani Nana

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Mbappé is definitely the better player. Weird PL-skewed results to this poll
 

Ole'sattheWheel

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Mbappe is a killer - people will see this more when he plays for Madrid in the CL.
I used to think he was a flat track bully type but what changed my mind was that last world cup final.
He scored 3 pens against that Argentina goalie (2 in game plus one in the shootout) plus that volley goal. He's a big mentality guy and i think the stage at Madrid will take him to the next level
 

surf

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Voted Mbappe. Football has moved on in the 20 years since Henry, and Mbappe is at the forefront. He has a better track record than Henry did at 25.
 

AdamColeBebe

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If you waited until Mbappe is a certain age, say 31, and then ask who has been better up until that age, I'd be able to answer
 

daveskimufc

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I personally don't even think this is close.
Mbappe is quicker. That's it. Henry did EVERYTHING else better and had far more about him.
 

Bosnian_fan

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Gerd muller scored an outrageous amount of goals and I think he did it with a better ratio than Messi even, won everything there was to win and pretty much scored in all the finals along the way and yet barely anyone talks about him being a candidate for the best that there ever was.
But Henry wasn't Messi, and Mbappe isn't Gerd Muller. They are much more similar in playing styles than the two you mentioned.

This is only a debate because Henry played in Premier League.
 

Red the Bear

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But Henry wasn't Messi, and Mbappe isn't Gerd Muller. They are much more similar in playing styles than the two you mentioned.

This is only a debate because Henry played in Premier League.
Mbappe could pull ahead obviously but henery for example really was the best player in the world for a year or two, something that mbappe cannot yet claim so it's definitely not a case of these two being in different leagues of quality .