Well said! Totally agree with this.
‘Disrespecting’ opponents...
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
I like the moves, I don't like the whole circus that comes with showing appreciation for them. There no need to put your hands on your head and gyrating about like a baboon while yelling oooooooh.
All that needs to be said.It's funny how Rooney gets angry at James Morrison for doing exactly what Rooney did to Ronaldo when they were opponents!
Barca publicly tapping up and unsettling players every year is fine though
Iirc he was sacked because it's a young teen game. And very inconsiderate to do so in a friendly 9 years old game. Kinda like united scoring 50 0 against samoan. It's unsportman and smug
There's quite an hypocrisy when it comes to showboating. Some players are lauded for it and almost revered by their fellow professionals whilst others are hated for the very same thing and can come in for some brutal treatment.
Take Ronaldinho vis-a-vis Nani or Ronaldo: the latter was seen as a god for humiliating his fellow pros with a huge smile on his face, whilst the latter were more stoic but got called and treated to all sorts of negative treatment for the same thing on a lesser scale. There's no rhyme or reason for the two to be separated from Ronaldinho's extremes, but they were. Can anyone recall a time when Ronaldinho was really targeted for the brutality that other showboaters get?
Take Ronaldinho vis-a-vis Nani or Ronaldo: the latter was seen as a god for humiliating his fellow pros with a huge smile on his face, whilst the latter were more stoic but got called and treated to all sorts of negative treatment for the same thing on a lesser scale. There's no rhyme or reason for the two to be separated from Ronaldinho's extremes, but they were. Can anyone recall a time when Ronaldinho was really targeted for the brutality that other showboaters get?
I get the sentiment, but if you’re that much better than your opponent, what are you supposed to do? You can’t really expect a team to pass the ball around their own box for the whole game or turn back whenever they get close to goal?
The reality is, United shouldn’t be on the same pitch as Samoa, just as they shouldn’t be with the local primary school team for the same reason. It will get bloody. This is why we have divisions in footy or weight categories in boxing.
If United beat Samoa 2-0 we’d be ridiculed to the heavens.
The hypocrisy/difference is in the contrasting cultures of Spain and England I think, when it comes to Ronaldinho and Cristiano Ronaldo. Deeper than that, there is the cultural history of Barcelona in particular, and then there is the history of brilliant South Americans at Barcelona.
All of this points to acceptance and expectations for Ronaldinho to be flash. In England at that time, the tricks and flash stuff was expected to come from a Brazilian at Barcelona. Then there’s the ‘everyone hates United’ narrative. Then there’s the fact that Ronaldo emerged at the same time as Rooney, and the comparison was Martial/Rashford on steroids. The whole British press weee desperate for Rooney to be the better one, and more important to United winning titles than Ronaldo. Ex-pros here wanted to dismiss Ronaldo as a showboat. If Gerrard was nutmegging players left,right and centre - do you think they would react the same?
I honestly don't believe it would've been any different if Ronaldinho was plying his trade in England at the time - he was/is genuinely loved the world over for the most part.
It s part of the game, the same with trying to block a free kick, or wasting time. It s what creates tension and rivalries.
But yeah if you re 5 nil up you should slow it down notch
But yeah if you re 5 nil up you should slow it down notch
Not exclusively England vs Spain here, combination of things I think. Being a smiling Brazilian would have certainly helped Ronaldinho here though.
If he were a bit younger, he might have been caught in a Ronaldinho vs Rooney propaganda war, but being a bit older, coming in as a World Cup winner. Ronaldo though was a Portuguese wonderkid vs an English one. Portugal being pitted against, and knocking England out of two tournaments in a row didn’t help either.
I remember when it started becoming undeniably clear that Ronaldo was better than Rooney, the big hope of an English generation. The media were unbearable.
The more disrespect we show to opponents, the happier I am.
IMO, not holding back against a lesser team is a show of respect toward them. Barely winning is like not taking them seriously.
I remember when Mourinho’s Real Madrid, playing with its B side + Real Madrid Castilla + cameos from a recently arrived Modric and just out of injury Kaka and Benzema; spanked 8-0 Millonarios, who were Colombian league champions at the time. (Colombian league is so bad, that it’s “giant” teams, would struggle to be mid table clubs at the championship).
I remember when Mourinho’s Real Madrid, playing with its B side + Real Madrid Castilla + cameos from a recently arrived Modric and just out of injury Kaka and Benzema; spanked 8-0 Millonarios, who were Colombian league champions at the time. (Colombian league is so bad, that it’s “giant” teams, would struggle to be mid table clubs at the championship).
You can still try your hardest to win the game without taking the piss.
If you're 5-0 up against a lesser opponent, who isn't a rival, and start doing rainbow flicks over people like Neymar then you ought to expect that you're going to get clattered.
If you're 5-0 up against a lesser opponent, who isn't a rival, and start doing rainbow flicks over people like Neymar then you ought to expect that you're going to get clattered.
Why though? What’s wrong with that? I fail to see what’s disrespectful about it. Growing up when you’re playing football, before you understand the beauty of a well worked passing move or counterattack, the thing that is the most fun and exciting on the field is doing tricks. I don’t see why that should change just because you’re a professional and you’re already beating a team.
I never said anything was wrong with it. Just that if you do it you ought to expect to get clattered. If we were getting beaten 5-0 away to City and Sane started taking the piss and doing fancy tricks past us; I'd want to see one of our players go in hard on him.
That just seems small time to me. You’re losing 5-0, but it’s your opponent doing tricks that makes you want to go hard on them. Maybe play with that intensity from the start?
Yeah I get your point. It is small time, and ideally it shouldn't be allowed to get to the point where we're losing 5-0. I just feel if somehow we were at the point of getting thrashed and having the piss taken out of us by a rival; the players would have it in them to not get embarrassed further.
Only little men with poorly developed brains take offence from "disrespectful" play.
It's football. It's a game where grown men kick a ball around. If they get angry about perceived lack of respect they should grow up and act their age.
It's football. It's a game where grown men kick a ball around. If they get angry about perceived lack of respect they should grow up and act their age.
Winning 12-0 vs Villa disrespectful?
I remember Neymar constantly "humiliating" opponents with a rainbow flick for Barca and the defenders going in hard on him after. I loved seeing Neymar do it, and loved how the hard tackles didn't cause him to shy away from taking them on again and again after it.
I mean, look at this:
What an overreaction from the Bilbao players.
What an overreaction from the Bilbao players.
Bilbao players did seem probably a bit excessively angry there, but I’m inclined to agree with @GeorgieBoy thatbif we were being smashed and players were doing that stuff to us I’d probably want him sorted out too.
Part of the game, if you feel disrespected by it then your ego is probably a little fragile.
Dont like getting megged, just stop being shit. Simple. Whats next, complaining about people running faster? Bending the ball better? I agree people shouldnt be a cnut, *cough*Balotelli*cough*, but tricks is part of the game. Deceiving the opposition to get past them. Step overs, megs, flicks, chips, etc etc. Im far more annoyed about cheating than someone megging some dude. So called professional fouls, taking one for the team, robs the fans of seeing an attack. And why? Because that person was too shit not to get caught out of position on the counter.
The only thing that Balotelli did wrong here is trying that trick in a situation where it's unlikely to be as effective as a regular shot.
Mancini did well to not lose his cool, there.
I honestly thought he was going to punch Balotelli after that.
It’s all a matter of perspective. I don’t think a nutmeg is disrespectful. It will often get the crowd excited and it’s part of what makes the game beautiful.
In America, running up the score is considered disrespectful when the victory is guaranteed. In the NBA, they will often not score deliberately when there’s only time left for one last possession and the game is already settled (and there have been heated confrontations when a player does score in those moments).
Personally, I think it’s more disrespectful to not play to your best abilities against your opponent. If you deliberately take your foot off the gas, you are underestimating them, maybe rightly so but regardless I find that far more disrespectful than getting crushed or nutmegged left and right.
Don’t like Neymar flicking the ball over you at the end of the game? Do something about it without crying or bitching for minutes on end afterward. It’s just very thin-skinned and almost symptomatic of this new generation where we don’t compete and everybody is a winner that we start to see with kids. Sometimes embarrassment is good for you, just like utter losing, that’s where competitive people will find the best sources of motivation.
In America, running up the score is considered disrespectful when the victory is guaranteed. In the NBA, they will often not score deliberately when there’s only time left for one last possession and the game is already settled (and there have been heated confrontations when a player does score in those moments).
Personally, I think it’s more disrespectful to not play to your best abilities against your opponent. If you deliberately take your foot off the gas, you are underestimating them, maybe rightly so but regardless I find that far more disrespectful than getting crushed or nutmegged left and right.
Don’t like Neymar flicking the ball over you at the end of the game? Do something about it without crying or bitching for minutes on end afterward. It’s just very thin-skinned and almost symptomatic of this new generation where we don’t compete and everybody is a winner that we start to see with kids. Sometimes embarrassment is good for you, just like utter losing, that’s where competitive people will find the best sources of motivation.
I don't have any real gripe. To be honest, I think when you go the way of some South African footballers, it goes too far:
Then you're kinda taking the piss.
All in all, I have no problem in people in showboating and I have no problem with someone getting absolutely chopped by the opponent if they choose to take the piss. Provided the ref appropriately punishes the player after.
Then you're kinda taking the piss.
All in all, I have no problem in people in showboating and I have no problem with someone getting absolutely chopped by the opponent if they choose to take the piss. Provided the ref appropriately punishes the player after.
I think it’s more of an ‘old school’ value to me. By default, the theory is that we have become less conservative with time.
Showboating smacks of a Souness or Keona frothing at the mouth saying ‘if that were when Terry Butcher was playing he’d have no legs left to walk with’, or something to that effect.
I'm of the opinion that if you're beating a team 4-0 or whatever you've earned the right to pull out some fancy tricks if you want. I mean, if not then. When else? Football is a spectacle and I love watching that kind of trickery. As for nutmegs being disrespectful, that's ridiculous, if you have the ability to do it then it's one of the hardest things to pull off and it instantly beats your man.
I don't think it's anywhere near the showboating in the NBA or the NFL. Guys in the NFL are doing somersaults and dabbing when they tackle a player 50+ yards from their own end zone. To me, that seems more disrespectful, gloating rather than performing actual skill. Imagine that in football, Smalling barging a striker off the ball, smashing it out for a throw in and then he starts doing the worm in his own penalty area. And I'm not ragging on the NFL, I like it, but if people think there is a showboating problem in football, then I don't think these people have watched other sports.
As for skills and tricks, it's a spectacle. Broadcasters pay literally billions to air it, we all pay through the nose to get the channels to watch it. We want to see some flair. We want to see something we wouldn't see down watching a non-league side. Football is meant to be fun, isn't it?
If you're a defender and you're not into being megged or rainbow-flicked over, chase after him and put him on the ground. Or get better and meg him back.
As for skills and tricks, it's a spectacle. Broadcasters pay literally billions to air it, we all pay through the nose to get the channels to watch it. We want to see some flair. We want to see something we wouldn't see down watching a non-league side. Football is meant to be fun, isn't it?
If you're a defender and you're not into being megged or rainbow-flicked over, chase after him and put him on the ground. Or get better and meg him back.
Everton smashed some part-timers 21-0 or something in pre-season andnobody questioned the morality of it to be fair.
Can you imagine how many times Phil neville has been nutmegged in training... Im not surprised he doesnt like it
It was probably Gary Neville that pulled other United players up for doing it. "leave Phil alone lads"...
I used to go into training match sessions with the aim to get at least three nutmegs. People probably minded but not so much when I hit them in a match to get past the last man and score...
I remember seeing a Mark Noble interview last season talking about his teammates. He said Manuel Lanzini used to ‘love nutmegging’ people in training when he first came, but we ‘had a word with him because pros don’t like that.’
Noble belongs in the Championship.
That's stupid.
Wtf are they doing?
Like what's the point? They're doing tricks half the time when nobody is near them or trying to tackle/put pressure on the ball. It's achieving nothing.