I get everything about having quality players. But what some posters here don't get is that there is no shortcut to experience at a club, doesn't exist. Bringing Real or City players in this is illogical because they are examples of how you should only buy young players.
If we had players like Sanchez and Matic already at the club it’s not a problem. The reality is we had Rooney and Carrick on his last legs.
If we had quality players like Matic and Sanchez at the club already and we added Lukaku and Pogba no one would be moaning.
All the top teams had quality older players they could add to. We did not. This is a question of what we had in the squad when Mourinho arrived compared to what was at other clubs we are competing or trying to compete with.
City were literally going to buy 29 year old Sanchez prior to our gazumping.
We should ban the people who play it.
Other than Silva and Fernandinho what quality old players did City have? Yaya, Sagna and Zabaleta do not really count.
This whole site just has a fetish for young players. Part of it could stem from FM or the romanticising of the class of '92.
Aguero? Kompany? Otamendi?
Also, Walker turns 28 this summer. Do you think Pep turns down the idea of signing him because he is 28?
And they signed Nolito but, out of the core of recent signings that helped them win the title most of them were signed in their early and mid 20s.
Agreed. But also ban those who try to win any argument with "FM" reply. That joke is older than Matic.
I will give you Aguero but, it looked like Kompany was finished not too long ago.
Exactly like us then. Both managers understand you need a mix of youth and experience. If you don’t already have it, you buy it.
It's not a joke.
What did we have to compare with that anyway? We signed younger players in Lukaku and Bailly in both those positions.
The caf loves black and whites and being mad if it doesn't the way they wanted. In reality, the ideal is somewhere in between. We lacked experience and quality, so a 29 year old Sanchez is a good thing on paper. One or two more would be fine with me too (although I'd prefer 27 if I can choose). These players are expected to give you quicker visible results and I find it odd that some people are obsessed about being good in the future but quite happy for it to be at the expense of now. Makes no sense to me. So long as the entire team isn't close to retiring/being past their peak in 2 years it's fine and striking a balance of young players that are also pretty decent now and those with experience and real quality already is the key, for me anyway.
I am much more tolerant towards a player like Sanchez mainly because he cost us nothing and he was, in my opinion, the best player in the league just one season ago. Like I wouldn't be against us getting Messi just because he's old. I am happy with making exceptions for exceptional players. But wasting a good chunk of transfer budget on average to above-average players isn't a great way to do business.
without any evidence?
3 ballon d’ors and a potential third CL in a row is as cold hard evidence as it gets
Average to above average players? The only other two Jose has signed are Matic, who has completely justified his transfer, and Zlatan, who was always going to be a stop gap. Were they average players? Then we have Pogba, Bailly and Lindelof who were 22/23 and Lukaku at 24. Seems pretty balanced to me, especially when you consider the lack of experience in our squad prior to their arrivals.
I've no idea who FM are, but if they advocate buying players on the way up instead of on the way down then they make sense to me.
I mean, lets look at the top European teams.
Real Madrid, Juve, Bayern, Barca. They all have players at 30 + contributing to their teams success in a big way.
so 1 player out of thousands then?
so players are now being compared to teams?
What?
Off the top of my head
Real - Ramos, Ronaldo, Modric
Barca - Messi, Suarez, Pique
Juve - Buffon, Chiellini, Higuain
Bayern - Neuer, Robben, Ribery, Vidal
There are probably more from these teams.
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You don’t think theres any evidence of footballers who performed better aged 30,other than ronaldo? I’m not going to go to the bother of providing you with examples, so I suggest you have a little check yourself and then just forget you ever made the comment, and I will too.
How many 30 plus players do these teams buy?
just cause you don't have names or examples doesn't mean you have to make an arse comment.
There has to be a balance. It's certainly a good thing to have some older players who are bringing experience to the team, but obviously you don't want too many or you run the risk of a huge drop-off coming soon. A good example for us is when Fergie left. For all the incredible work he did and he will rightfully go down as arguably the greatest manager of all time, he did leave behind a team that was very much on it's last legs. The great defence with Evra, Rio and Vida were all coming to the end, Carrick, Scholes and Giggs in midfield, Rooney (younger but Fergie could see he was reaching the end) and perhaps you can include van Persie up front. There was just too much left to do.
So the key is to get the balance right.
At the moment we have lost the experience of Carrick, Rooney and Zlatan over the last 12 months. Our other older players:
Young - 32 (probably a squad player next season, replaced by younger starter)
Valencia - 32 (probably a squad player next season, replaced by younger starter)
Mata - 30 (squad player)
Fellaini - 30 (looks likely to go, replaced by younger player)
Matic - 29
Sanchez - 29
Smalling - 28
Herrera - 28 (squad player)
Rojo - 28 (squad player if still here, could be replaced by similar aged starter)
Darmian - 28 (almost certainly going)
Blind - 28 (almost certainly going)
Basically, we currently only have two or three of our starting players next season in that kind of age frame. Otherwise we're going back to Jones and Lingard as our next oldest (not counting the keepers). As such we do have the option for another one or two 'older' players to come in and strengthen our starting line-up, although I wouldn't want more than that.
So the key is to get the balance right.
At the moment we have lost the experience of Carrick, Rooney and Zlatan over the last 12 months. Our other older players:
Young - 32 (probably a squad player next season, replaced by younger starter)
Valencia - 32 (probably a squad player next season, replaced by younger starter)
Mata - 30 (squad player)
Fellaini - 30 (looks likely to go, replaced by younger player)
Matic - 29
Sanchez - 29
Smalling - 28
Herrera - 28 (squad player)
Rojo - 28 (squad player if still here, could be replaced by similar aged starter)
Darmian - 28 (almost certainly going)
Blind - 28 (almost certainly going)
Basically, we currently only have two or three of our starting players next season in that kind of age frame. Otherwise we're going back to Jones and Lingard as our next oldest (not counting the keepers). As such we do have the option for another one or two 'older' players to come in and strengthen our starting line-up, although I wouldn't want more than that.
I don't think Matic is an exceptional player. We wouldn't miss him if we bought any half decent defensive mid. Zlatan was a stop gap and I am okay with that, he came for free so it didn't use up our transfer budget. I am really not using examples from Jose's time with us, I am only making a general statement. For example, if we bought Willian for 40m+, that isn't a good deal of business.
I do. I’m not doing them because I don’t want you to be proved wrong so unnecessarily when you just have to take a step back.
In fairness, thats what we appear to have been done. Matic and Sanchez are quality players. Alderwield would be as well. I would be wary of too many more at that age though.
Seriously?
I thought the point was players can play into their 30’s? Those teams dont have to buy older players if they already have them within the squad at a good enough quality. We had players like Rooney and Young. It does not compare. If we had players of the top european teams quality we would not have to buy older players, and could just sign players like Pogba and Lukaku.
If Matic and Sanchez were already at the club and we added Pogba and Lukaku, no one would have a problem. The reality is we had players like Rooney and Carrick on his last legs. People need to wake uo to the actual makeup of the squad after Fergie left. Our older players were done and there was a lack of quality. People need to accept it.
We already have a lot.
As someone who has just turned 29, I find it very hurtful and you're all giving me a complex.
No we don’t. It’s increasingly likely that we will go into next season with 1 player over 30 (Matic having just turned) in the starting XI.
There’s a fair bit of derailment which I’d have expected but to clarify my original line of thinking;
It’s accepted that a players decline starts as they approach 30. And because that mentality is so deeply rooted throughout the game, it’s easy to just assume that’s the way it’ll always be and operate based on that.
Then you consider the definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results- then it doesn’t make sense to me why we continue to devalue players who are in all likelihood, capable of Playing at a higher level for at least a few years longer. But it’s so easy for the standards and expectations to drop because it’s just so widely accepted.
With all the help available to footballers, there’s really little reason why 35 can’t become the new 30.
It’s accepted that a players decline starts as they approach 30. And because that mentality is so deeply rooted throughout the game, it’s easy to just assume that’s the way it’ll always be and operate based on that.
Then you consider the definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results- then it doesn’t make sense to me why we continue to devalue players who are in all likelihood, capable of Playing at a higher level for at least a few years longer. But it’s so easy for the standards and expectations to drop because it’s just so widely accepted.
With all the help available to footballers, there’s really little reason why 35 can’t become the new 30.
I don't think he was as great as people here seem to think. He's a bit of jack of all trades and I am not sure what exactly he is good at.
Hypothetically speaking, if I offered you the chance to start our league campaign in August with this line up, what would you say?
GK De Gea
RB Valencia
CB Sergio Ramos
CB Chiellini
LB Marcelo
CM Fernandinho
CM Modric
CM David Silva
RW Willian
ST lewandowski
LW Sanchez
