A player's physical peak does not necessarily correspond with his/her peak footballing ability, for obvious reasons (football is not all about physicality!)
Is that you, Alan?
Isn’t this just a case by case basis? If we went out and signed 6 players aged 29 in the summer it would be stupid
jordi Alba, Thomas Müller, alderweireld, boateng, willian and lewandowski.
I’m sure you wouldn’t get too many people complaining.
There are plenty of examples of players declining pretty rapidly once they hit 31-33 despite this threads' intention to sweep that caution many have under the carpet. Essentially, when you sign a 29 year old has to adapt to a new team and often a new league/country, which creates both an additional risk as well as little leeway to bed in. Of course he should be more likely to bed in quickly as compared to a younger player but it doesn't always work that way.
There's nothing wrong with signing a 29 year old. But it's perfectly natural to feel a bit of caution given the potential downside and lack of room for development.
You would think we'd be more open to players over 30 with what Giggs had done for the club
Falcao isn't a good example at all. He had a horrible injury that any player of any age struggles to get back from. What he has done since is great all things considered. Rooney just didn't take care of himself.
Of course. You want a mixture of experience and youthful exuberance.
Incidentally, all but three of the World Cup winning teams since 1930 had an average age of between 26 and 29.
Yeah true. Like I said, generally happy with how we have spread age of our signings so far, but a little wary we go too far towards the older pro's
I blame Football Manager.
Don't agree with this at all. They play in completely different positions
Not an advocate of signing a player who is 29 tbh but it depends on the player really. Not every 29 years old is a freak of nature and a top professional like Ronaldo is you know. And signing a 29 years old means you will be in a position where you have to replace him in a couple of years at the best possible scenario.
The bigger problem with 29 is that we should be buying players who are on the cusp of breaking through not those on the downward slope who are in search of one final big contract before their careers wind down. Its not just physical, but also to a degree about hunger v complacency. That will obviously have its exceptions but in general, we should be going after players between the ages of around 18-25 who can contribute at a high level for up to a decade.
Rooney has affected people mind. They now consider anyone approaching his 30 is Rooney-esque.
Agree with the sentiment , but it's.not good planning as we end up having to replace players constantly within a short period of time.
Nobody is interested in facts please leave
when is the last time we actually signed an 18-25 year old who lived up to their potential/price-tag though? it's a much bigger risk.
a proven 25-27 year old is the sweet spot imo, as much as I love the idea of signing them young and them turning into top players, it seems to never fecking happen with us.
Replacing someone after their 4 year contract runs out is not as big a problem as some people want to make out either.
Every team should be making signings every summer to supplement the squad regardless of being champions or not.
Every team should be making signings every summer to supplement the squad regardless of being champions or not.
Having a couple of players in their very late 20s / early 30s is fine. Having a lot is one of the reasons we struggled poat fergie.
Rather than a team naturally changing each year, you get to a ppint where 5 or 6 important players need to be replaced at once and its a mess.
I also believe that in general, it takes time for a team to gel and achieve greatness. A team with several older players doesn't have that time.
I'm not talking about alderweireld specifically but talk of willian as well is concerning.
What are the outliers?
That's where scouting comes into play. We can't just keep buying older players because we haven't done an adequate job scouting younger ones - and by younger I don't mean youth players, I mean established starters at other big clubs.
30 is when the resale value starts to get less
You just know Spurs will sell 29 year old Toby for £50M, replace him with some 23yo prospect to partner Sanchez and continue to win sweet FA....
They can still have a good impact but it's still a fact that once you're in your 30s, your career usually starts to go downhill. There are exceptions to everything, and some players can adapt to stay at a high level for longer, but inevitably age will catch up. Whether that's right at 30, 31, 32, or 33 or anything past that... it happens. Ronaldo is as you say a freak, but hes massively changed as a player and more then anything has to manage his game time now.
We have also signed Lukaku, Pogba, Bailly and Lindelof who are younger. People just focus on what they want to focus on.We'll be playing catch up for a very long time if we spend our transfer money on old players with their best years behind them.
We already have Pogba, Herrera, Lukaku, DDG, Smalling all of who will be a year more experienced next season. Anyway, we can take this to another thread if we are still adamant in trying to win this internet argument.
The odd 29yo as a signing is fine. Utd take Alderweireld, Perisic and Willian in the summer, added to the pickups of Matic, Sanchez and suddenly you have a core that are likely to need to be replaced at the same time, and give you what is likely to be a short window of peak performances. Especially when you already have guys like Young, Valencia, Mata.
Utd already have the team that covers the least ground in the league, have to be careful with the balance.
Utd already have the team that covers the least ground in the league, have to be careful with the balance.
This criteria doesn't fit everyone and it depends on genetics and lifestyle as well as other considerations. I don't think it's unfair to say those close to 30 carry a greater risk than signing those younger. Sport Science and Strength & Conditioning can help prolong a player's career but I wouldn't necessarily say it extends their peak. Even Ronaldo is not as quick or as powerful as he once was, age catches up with everyone. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who is quicker at 32 then they were at 23-27.
The rationale behind signing a 29/30 year old is that you are getting a player in their peak, someone who is playing at the top of their game and someone you don't expect to get better, their performances for their previous clubs are what you expect. Other times it's for professionalism and experience around the team, as well as adding some sort of quality. Essentially your getting the finished article. The risk is for how long? A player can suddenly drop off a cliff in terms of performance and physical conditions once they reach their 30's.
However it is hard to predict when a player will start declining, each player is different. Some players have even started declining from the age of 25 onwards, whilst some players are still playing at the highest level at the age of 33. As a general rule of thumb, players will start declining from age 30-33 therefore when you sign a 29 yo it is hard to predict how effective the signing will be due to a) how long can he maintain form for in terms of performances b) a 29/30 yo will most likely demand a 3/4 year contract and a bigger wage therefore if x player starts declining after a year then you have a player who can longer contribute as effectively and the player has no resell value due to his age and declining form.
The rationale behind signing a 29/30 year old is that you are getting a player in their peak, someone who is playing at the top of their game and someone you don't expect to get better, their performances for their previous clubs are what you expect. Other times it's for professionalism and experience around the team, as well as adding some sort of quality. Essentially your getting the finished article. The risk is for how long? A player can suddenly drop off a cliff in terms of performance and physical conditions once they reach their 30's.
However it is hard to predict when a player will start declining, each player is different. Some players have even started declining from the age of 25 onwards, whilst some players are still playing at the highest level at the age of 33. As a general rule of thumb, players will start declining from age 30-33 therefore when you sign a 29 yo it is hard to predict how effective the signing will be due to a) how long can he maintain form for in terms of performances b) a 29/30 yo will most likely demand a 3/4 year contract and a bigger wage therefore if x player starts declining after a year then you have a player who can longer contribute as effectively and the player has no resell value due to his age and declining form.
I don’t like this generalization, I know it happens a lot but there are players who love the game not the money, and would take huge pride in going to a club with the intention of winning things and not just for the retirement fund.
We probably will not sign both Perisic and Willian. Young and Valencia might be getting replaced by younger players this window anyway. We have younger players in the squad already. At this point, we need quality. Jose had already spent big money on players like Lukaku and Pogba who should be here their entire careers.
I was watching a documentary about Fergie from 1995 recently and one of the things he said really stood out. It was when the “kids” like Beckham and Scholes had just come through and the first great double winning team of 1994 was breaking up. He said he was always looking for young players to bring in who were “up for the challenge” and “hungry for success”.
That was the cornerstones of Fergie’s longevity and success. Bring in young players who have yet to achieve big things in the game. Players with ability, potential, a strong mentality and are hungry to succeed. Guide them, mold them and that hunger will drive them to achieve great things.
And once Fergie saw the fire start to dim in certain player’s eyes after they won some trophies he shipped them out and got in the next hungry player.
The whole 29 argument is about this for me. Are these players still hungry and motivated like they were when they were 22/23/24. They’ve likely won trophies and accolades already. So what motivates them to keep achieving peak performance and go that extra mile required to make a team better than all the rest.
Some players (see Ronaldo) have an insatiable appetite to keep winning and be the very best. But there’s not many like him once players are pushing 30.
So for me I do worry when I see us linked with players in their late 20s. It’s not about ability. They’ve proven they’ve got that. It’s more about mentality and that is usually the difference between finishing first or second (or sixth!).
And to be honest I think this applies to many in our current squad as well. Not hungry enough, too comfortable.
That was the cornerstones of Fergie’s longevity and success. Bring in young players who have yet to achieve big things in the game. Players with ability, potential, a strong mentality and are hungry to succeed. Guide them, mold them and that hunger will drive them to achieve great things.
And once Fergie saw the fire start to dim in certain player’s eyes after they won some trophies he shipped them out and got in the next hungry player.
The whole 29 argument is about this for me. Are these players still hungry and motivated like they were when they were 22/23/24. They’ve likely won trophies and accolades already. So what motivates them to keep achieving peak performance and go that extra mile required to make a team better than all the rest.
Some players (see Ronaldo) have an insatiable appetite to keep winning and be the very best. But there’s not many like him once players are pushing 30.
So for me I do worry when I see us linked with players in their late 20s. It’s not about ability. They’ve proven they’ve got that. It’s more about mentality and that is usually the difference between finishing first or second (or sixth!).
And to be honest I think this applies to many in our current squad as well. Not hungry enough, too comfortable.
I'm concerned about age but for a different reason. A team doesn't just gel overnight but needs a spine of at least several players who understand each other, have trained and executed the same tactics together. A few 29s isn't a problem in itself but too many and you have a disjointed group of players who, albeit strong on their own, are not yet a team.
Most great teams in history have had a solid core. An addition or two to complete the puzzle is understandable.
Addition: Youth or relative youth also gives a boost to the older cats with drive and hunger, competition, etc. You want players to be on their heels with pressure from their understudies, not some comfortable cheque collectors.
Most great teams in history have had a solid core. An addition or two to complete the puzzle is understandable.
Addition: Youth or relative youth also gives a boost to the older cats with drive and hunger, competition, etc. You want players to be on their heels with pressure from their understudies, not some comfortable cheque collectors.
For a club like us, we can afford the difference in the short/mid term.
I was 29 when I joined Juventus, where I won a Ballon d’Or and played at a high level for 7 years.
I can see similar hunger in both Matic and Lukaku. It’s more about hunger and dedication than it is age.
Yes and that's the profile of players we need to sign(well maybe not Lindelof). These players will grow old with us hopefully and then on other fan forums posters will talk about them like we are talking about Kompany and Aguero. My only point is that the senior members of your squad have to be the ones who've spent their prime at the club. We don't have many left and that's unfortunate but we can't buy legends.
This is just a generalization of course and I do understand that there are going to always be exceptions to this.
Unfortunately that's how it goes. Many of the players obviously also want to win but the pressure to get that final big contract is there, and clubs like United are in a bad habit of taking the bite. Look at everything we have paid Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Zlatan, and now Alexis over the past 5 years. Its not sustainable, nor is making a habit out of buying older players. There may be one off instances where it helps but in most instances we should be looking to buy that same player 5-7 years earlier in their career.
We shouldn't be buying players to sell them later on, should we ?
The older players at the club are not good enough. The ones at City are. That’s the difference. So City can sign younger players on top of the quality they already have. Therefore, we have to sign quality like matic and Sanchez, whilst also thinking about the future with signings like Bailly.
We have done this to some extent though, hopefully the hunger will come.
My overall point is that we should be expecting professional footballers to be performing for longer than they used to and not be getting put off by old stereotypes and agism.
I don't have any issue with us buying a 29 year old if he's a top player in great shape. It depends on his injury record a bit, if the player is playing at a high level most games it can be the difference. It's balancing the experience and leadership of the team, if he's very young then it could cost you against a clever experienced side. If he's very old, the decline is fast in the team and it can become predictable. Rvp was the difference when we won our last league. It really is about getting the blend right. We need another leader in that side in my opinion.