2000s AC Milan, overrated?

VorZakone

What would Kenny G do?
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From 2000 to 2010:
  • One Serie A title (2003/04)
  • 3 CL finals, 2 wins (2003, 2005, 2007)
A very good CL record but a terrible domestic record, and people talk about them as if they were this mythological beast of a team but were they really? On paper it looked amazing with Gattuso, Nesta, Seedorf, Kaka, Pirlo, Shevchenko etc but they actually didn't win that many trophies to warrant some of the incredible overrating IMO. If not for meeting the greatest Barca club side of all time, Man Utd between 2006-2011 could have rivalled that Milan team in terms of CL trophies. And it did much better domestically.
 
In this stats era of football, yes, very overrated.

Having watched them at the time, no, fantastic team
 
Yes. Or well, wait, how highly do we actually rate them?

03 the fluked into a Nedved suspension, and 07 they fluked into a pretty brutally injured Man Utd.... and 05 they flop a 3-0 lead. I mean, you gotta convert the luck that comes your way and they did. But yeah, 1 League... come on.
 
A lot of it was down to the fact Ancelotti is a really poor league manager. A good UCL track record took the heat of him for that quite a lot.

If Pep managed the teams he did (between Juve and Bayern) especially that Milan one he'd be on about 15 titles and people will play it down because it's "easy to do it with those teams".
 
I feel like often these amazing CL runs we see require a huge amount of luck. The Milan side was excellent but for example in 2007 we were decimated with injuries for the 2nd leg but that's just how it goes and they win the thing.
 
VorZakone said:
From 2000 to 2010:
  • One Serie A title (2003/04)
  • 3 CL finals, 2 wins (2003, 2005, 2007)
A very good CL record but a terrible domestic record, and people talk about them as if they were this mythological beast of a team but were they really? On paper it looked amazing with Gattuso, Nesta, Seedorf, Kaka, Pirlo, Shevchenko etc but they actually didn't win that many trophies to warrant some of the incredible overrating IMO. If not for meeting the greatest Barca club side of all time, Man Utd between 2006-2011 could have rivalled that Milan team in terms of CL trophies. And it did much better domestically.
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I will say winning CL was lot tougher than winning league title. Two CL wins in five years and one more final even the all time great barca didn't achieve that. So it's not overrating but should have done better in league though.
 
You mean the AC Milan side that gave us a schooling. They were good. Albeit our lads matured immensely the follow up seasons but that team of oldies was good.
 
Rajiztar said:
I will say winning CL was lot tougher than winning league title. Two CL wins in five years and one more final even the all time great barca didn't achieve that. So it's not overrating but should have done better in league though.
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You're right - they won 3 in 5 years. 06-09-11. I guess you'll come back and say Pep-era, but he only did 4 years, so kind of incomparable like for like ;)
 
Why are you counting 2009 and 2010?
By 2008 AC Milan was already in terrible shape, due to Calciopolo and italian economic crisis hurting Serie A.

AC Milan 2001-2007 it's more accurate.

And NO, they aren't overrated.
Playing 3 CL finals and winning 2 in 6 years it's a lot... without mentioning that in 2004 they brought the record of winning Serie A with more than 81 points.

Ferguson won 2 CLs in 27 years at United...27 years.

Your post seems a bit salty.
 
Zen said:
You're right - they won 3 in 5 years. 06-09-11. I guess you'll come back and say Pep-era, but he only did 4 years, so kind of incomparable like for like ;)
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Didn't Barca's spine change heavily in that period? At least Milan from 2003 to 2007 had many of the same core players in Maldini, Nesta, Seedorf, Gattuso, Pirlo.
 
They had a lot of amazing players reputation wise but a lot of them weren’t always all at their peak.

For example people always talk about Cafu Nesta Stam Maldini defence but Cafu was 35, Stam was 33, Maldini was 37, only Nesta was at his peak and somewhat helped carry that defence. All-time greatest defence on paper but 3 greats slightly past their peak in practice.

I think this is also the reason why they were so good in Europe, they could get themselves up for these one-off matches and show class is permanent in a way they couldn’t every week in the league.
 
Wolf1992 said:
Why are you counting 2009 and 2010?
By 2008 AC Milan was already in terrible shape, due to Calciopolo and italian economic crisis hurting Serie A.

AC Milan 2001-2007 it's more accurate.

And NO, they aren't overrated.
Playing 3 CL finals and winning 2 in 6 years it's a lot... without mentioning that in 2004 they brought the record of winning Serie A with more than 81 points.

Ferguson won 2 CLs in 27 years at United.

Your post seems a bit salty.
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Why would I be salty? I just don't think they warrant some of the immense overrating I've seen many times when people read their line-up. Real Madrid of last decade won 4 CL's in 5 years.
 
They were an absolute beast of a team. World class players all over the pitch and their defense was incredible.

As great as Fergie was, there really was no answer to that Milan side. Which other team could stop United from scoring any goals whatsoever in both legs? I've genuinely never seen that happen, but it happened in 2005 against that Milan side. And in 2007, they showed their class again.

I'm not picking on United btw, they also brushed aside Bayern Munich and other teams. I'm just using United as an example because United was a genuinely good team and one of the best teams and yet they couldn't get near that Milan side, which tells the whole story doesn't it?
 
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VorZakone said:
Didn't Barca's spine change heavily in that period? At least Milan from 2003 to 2007 had many of the same core players in Maldini, Nesta, Seedorf, Gattuso, Pirlo.
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Yeah it did... Deco-Dinho we're the key cogs to 06. But I guess I could counter it with 3 in 6 years really with more or less the same core.

It's not massively relevant to me, I think a team that goes for all trophies it's entering every year has more merit than one aims for one for the most part. They are absolutely light years behind the Barca 08-12, Man Utd 06-09 teams that came after them, and also, despite no CL win, I'm not entirely sure I'd have them over 04-07 Chelsea either... more or less on par with the 04-08 Barca team.

It's more or less the exact same reasoning why I don't have Arsenals unbeatables as high as some..
 
Serie A was still very tough back then, they were up against a Juve side that were very formidable even when they weren't cheating. Or were cheating more than Milan were at least.

Not so much overrated as superceded really. Even at that time there wasn't the same expectation that a side would win their league 4 or 5 or 10 years in a row. The great sides that have come since are better, but for their moment in time they were brilliant and always one you'd back in a big European tie.
 
The best Milan era was under Sacchi and Cappelo between the late 80's until the mid 90's, but that period under Ancelotti they were very good, from what I can remember Juventus was the dominant team in Serie A until 2006 before Calciopoli, they just seemed more focused on the Champions League, if we can make a analogy on this, they seemed more the Real Madrid of the last 10 years, more interested in Champions League titles than anything else. Calling them overrated is too much, but for me a level bellow the teams they had on the Sacchi/Cappelo era.
 
Anyone remember much of the 05 games against us? i remember them being decided by goalkeeping errors but Ac Milan were generally superior. The 07 games were us being bossed by Kaka and Seedorf but i don't remember them playing nearly as well in 05.
 
Topgun1 said:
They were an absolute beast of a team. World class players all over the pitch and their defense was incredible.

As great as Fergie was, there really was no answer to that Milan side. Which other team could stop United from scoring any goals whatsoever in both legs? I've genuinely never seen that happen, but it happened in 2005 against that Milan side. And in 2007, they showed their class again.

I'm not picking on United btw, they also brushed aside Bayern Munich and other teams. I'm just using United as an example because United was a genuinely good team and one of the best teams and yet they couldn't get near that Milan side, which tells the whole story doesn't it?
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Agree, fantastic team of experienced technicians. Lost some of the enjoyment of watching them when they switched from two 10s to adding Ambrosini to the midfield though.

Also you have to say Depor and Liverpool are two absolutely historic black marks against them
 
GlasgowCeltic said:
In this stats era of football, yes, very overrated.

Having watched them at the time, no, fantastic team
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I’m not sure that expecting more than one league title in ten years falls under an obsession with stats. What was their xg like?
 
GlasgowCeltic said:
Also you have to say Depor and Liverpool are two absolutely historic black marks against them
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Massive black marks. Absolutely agree with that. They only have themselves to blame. They had both games locked up with ease....shocking collapse afterwards.
 
Irwin99 said:
Anyone remember much of the 05 games against us? i remember them being decided by goalkeeping errors but Ac Milan were generally superior. The 07 games were us being bossed by Kaka and Seedorf but i don't remember them playing nearly as well in 05.
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Yeah, even though it was 1-0 both legs, they were utterly dominant. Never thought we would score.
 
Terrible domestic record??? A league between Juventus' corruption and Inter's Second Golden Age + utterly dominating the UCL as the scariest team out there. Title in 2003, heroic accident against Depor in 2004, vermin's miracle in 2005 (final), knocked out by Ronaldinho's Barcelona in 2006 (semis) and another title in 2007 is definitely impressive. It's the last great Milan so far, imo. They had a major star in every position of the Starting XI. Carlo's golden age as manager.
 
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VorZakone said:
Why would I be salty? I just don't think they warrant some of the immense overrating I've seen many times when people read their line-up. Real Madrid of last decade won 4 CL's in 5 years.
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It seems salty.

First you add 2009 and 2010 as part of the "great" era, in what world 2000(under Fatith Terim horrible management) 2009 and 2010 were great times for AC Milan? Seriously.
This is like saying Van Gaal United were great times for Man Utd.

You are calling a team who won 2 CL and played 3 finals in 6 years overrated...
I doubt someone like Ferguson would say anything negative about Ancelotti's Milan, he knows how hard is to win a CL, as he only won 2 in 27 years.
 
People are much more cynical today than they were then. 1 league title in more than half a decade would be seen as a poor return and then also giving up a 3-0 lead at half time would be ridiculed in today's day and age.

The Juve team in the mid 2010's also reached two finals in a short span (losing to two great teams in the final) while also dominating domestically, they'll never be seen in the same light.

AC Milan had some great names but they didn't accomplish much.
 
They were a great side between 2002 and 2005, when they competed for the league and Champions League. The 2007 Team wasn‘t that great anymore, but put together a good cup run.
 
JuveGER said:
They were a great side between 2002 and 2005, when they competed for the league and Champions League. The 2007 Team wasn‘t that great anymore, but put together a good cup run.
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Yep. They were battling for 4th place that year I recall. I watched them in the league and they were pretty average, Seedorf especially. Kaka was the only one really performing. the win against United propelled them to be seen as better than they were. Gilardino scored for fecks sake and he was woeful at Milan.
 
Wolf1992 said:
It seems salty.

First you add 2009 and 2010 as part of the "great" era, in what world 2000(under Fatith Terim horrible management) 2009 and 2010 were great times for AC Milan? Seriously.
This is like saying Van Gaal United were great times for Man Utd.

You are calling a team who won 2 CL and played 3 finals in 6 years overrated...
I doubt someone like Ferguson would say anything negative about Ancelotti's Milan, he knows how hard is to win a CL, as he only won 2 in 27 years.
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Jesus Christ, he chose 2000-2010 because that's a decade, a commonly used timeframe, not because he wanted to include 09 or 00 to talk them down. Isn't that obvious? Irrespective if you take 2000-2010 or 2001-2007, everyone knows which Milan is referred to.
And while I not necessarily agree, there's a good point to be made that they underperformed domestically. Surely one would've expected more league titles than 1, even with Juves scandal, and additionally they also only won one Coppa Italia.
3 CL finals are fantastic but domestically, there was more to be expected from that squad.
 
With respect to the "Juve scandal", it's worth noting that Milan were implicated themselves in the scandal.
 
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The reason for the "poor" domestic record is calciopoli

In a regular league they win at least 2 league titles over that stretch.

A genuinely all time great side for that era of football
 
VorZakone said:
Why would I be salty? I just don't think they warrant some of the immense overrating I've seen many times when people read their line-up. Real Madrid of last decade won 4 CL's in 5 years.
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Nostalgia does a lot in the mind of the fan. Wait another 5-10 years and the monster CL Madrid side will get its flowers too.
 
Also weren't Milan suspended from European football because of the match fixing scandal and were allowed to take part again after a successful appeal, going on to beat Liverpool 2-1 in that season's final?
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
They had a lot of amazing players reputation wise but a lot of them weren’t always all at their peak.

For example people always talk about Cafu Nesta Stam Maldini defence but Cafu was 35, Stam was 33, Maldini was 37, only Nesta was at his peak and somewhat helped carry that defence. All-time greatest defence on paper but 3 greats slightly past their peak in practice.

I think this is also the reason why they were so good in Europe, they could get themselves up for these one-off matches and show class is permanent in a way they couldn’t every week in the league.
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This does make a lot of sense, and probably goes some way to explaining it. That plus Ancelotti's inability to keep it consistent over a season domestically probably gives you the bulk of the answer.
 
esmufc07 said:
Well Juve we’re buying the league….
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It's somehow often missed that Juventus weren't the only team involved in calciopoli and not the only team sanctioned, Milan, Fiorentina and Lazio were the other ones.
 
I’d say they were similar to the Real Madrid galacticos from the same period, ie brilliant on paper but under delivered on the pitch. That Milan team is full of world class stars, but in reality they all peaked at different times. It’s easy to ignore that though when looking at the first 11.

Reminds me of when people post that picture of United from around 2005, with Keane, Giggs, Rooney, Ronaldo etc as if to say wow, what a side. In reality Keane was on his last legs and Ronaldo was still struggling with end product. There was nothing but moaning from United fans around that time.
 
Actually, and some people might kill me for saying this, I never rated them that highly.

Everyone knew what that Milan team was. They'd sack off the league in spring and focus on the Champions League. It was something they were very good at, and you could never underestimate them in Europe.

However, for me, they were never the equal of late 1990s Juve. Maybe my eyes are coloured by that being United's testing ground on the European stage. However, Juve always seemed like this huge mountain we had to climb. So many great players came to Old Trafford in that era. It was amazing to me how they'd just swap one player out and another great would come in.

To me the Milan team of the 2000s was never the equal of late 90s Juve. Between 1996 and the end of the decade if you beat Juve you won the Champions League. To me, Milan never quite hit that level.
 
They were a great side, but a victim of the wider corruption in Serie A and their own dodgy owner's involvement in it.

Ancelotti joined them in 2002 and by 2004 they were Champions. They would have won in 2005 too after Juventus were stripped of the title, and in 2006 the whole of Serie A fell apart.

The truly great Milan side was that of the early 90s.
 
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