2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea

TheMagicFoolBus

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He was awful v Leicester, that's the last league game I can remember when he charged out of his box and still couldn't get back when the cross eventually came in. You still conceded two goals from crosses with him in goal in the Man. United game aswell.
Awful is harsh when he kept a clean sheet and didn't allow a team that was superior in the air to beat us at set plays.

My point is that the bar is lower than it has ever been in the history of the PL. I'd rather have Caballero than the most hapless keeper ever.
 

always_hoping

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12 league defeats for Chelsea now and 53 goals conceded for some context Brighton in 16th have also conceded 53 goals.

As one Liverpool podcast host tweeted the other day.

The greatest trick Frank Lampard ever pulled was getting people to forget that Chelsea finished third last season (with more points than they’re going to get this), and won the Europa League to boot. You’d think he’d taken over mid-table no-hopers.
 

FootballHQ

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Awful is harsh when he kept a clean sheet and didn't allow a team that was superior in the air to beat us at set plays.

My point is that the bar is lower than it has ever been in the history of the PL. I'd rather have Caballero than the most hapless keeper ever.
I meant the 2-2 league game, came out of his box to try to get the ball but retreated back and Leicester still had time to score when they eventually crossed it in. He's always got an error lurking in him as we also saw when he played for Argentina in the world cup.

Mind you I always remember the season you got Kepa you were seriously considering Jack Butland so it could be worse. :lol:

Handanovic if you could get him for a season or two would be a smart pick up I think.
 

V.O.

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At half time it was 0.2 vs. 0.84 for a score of 3-1.

After 68 minutes it was Liverpool 0.85 vs. Chelsea 2.15. Actual score 4-2.

Full time xG was 1.55 - 2.52, actual score 5-3. On Liverpool's 5 shots leading to their goals, the total combined xG was 0.76. Kepa is genuinely atrocious.
Kepa is bobbins, but I don't think xG is a useful stat for rating keepers at all. The 0.04 and 0.02 for Alexander-Arnold's and Keita's goals for example take into account all the times shots from that distance end up in the stands or blocked etc, whereas those two were stuck in the top corner.

On the other hand, the 0.5 for van Dijk's chance at the end which didn't go in, and therefore counts in Kepa's favour, was actually entirely his fault that it was allowed to be a chance in the first place.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I meant the 2-2 league game, came out of his box to try to get the ball but retreated back and Leicester still had time to score when they eventually crossed it in. He's always got an error lurking in him as we also saw when he played for Argentina in the world cup.

Mind you I always remember the season you got Kepa you were seriously considering Jack Butland so it could be worse. :lol:

Handanovic if you could get him for a season or two would be a smart pick up I think.
Ah ok. Yes, he was poor there but frankly I don't think he was any worse than Kepa - the issue fundamentally is that the defense has to play differently because right now every other shot on target results in a goal more or less.

I like Handanovic but there are issues given Conte is boss there. Onana makes the most sense to me - he's young, available for a reasonable price, and reportedly wants to come to Chelsea.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Kepa is bobbins, but I don't think xG is a useful stat for rating keepers at all. The 0.04 and 0.02 for Alexander-Arnold's and Keita's goals for example take into account all the times shots from that distance end up in the stands or blocked etc, whereas those two were stuck in the top corner.

On the other hand, the 0.5 for van Dijk's chance at the end which didn't go in, and therefore counts in Kepa's favour, was actually entirely his fault that it was allowed to be a chance in the first place.
Yeah I agree, I'd be reluctant to draw any firm conclusions from the xG of a single match, but today was just another data point damning Kepa. He clearly has no idea how to defend free kicks and he's now apparently extended this futility to shots from 25+ yards. I'd not use xG in isolation as the end all be all for a keeper, but given the extent to which he fails the eye test consistently the figures are getting awfully untenable.
 

zakk88

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12 league defeats for Chelsea now and 53 goals conceded for some context Brighton in 16th have also conceded 53 goals.

As one Liverpool podcast host tweeted the other day.

The greatest trick Frank Lampard ever pulled was getting people to forget that Chelsea finished third last season (with more points than they’re going to get this), and won the Europa League to boot. You’d think he’d taken over mid-table no-hopers.
Big thing that you seem to conveniently forget is that this season chelsea lost Hazard.
Hazard ended last season with 16 goals and 16 assists in the league last season to get Chelsea 3rd.
Thats about 51% of Chelsea's 63 league goals last season lost, Chelsea were essentially Hazard FC last season, he carried the team to 3rd place finish, losing him without a replacement was a massive blow
 

amolbhatia50k

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They lost last night but I can't help but be impressed by the fact that he took Liverpool on at Anfield playing a high line, creating lots of chances, scoring lots of goals and just missing out on a point. Of course they lost the game and were in 3rd ahead of them, but in the long run, I think being able to go toe to toe with the best in the business especially away from home is important. Would love for us to play Liverpool this aggressively next season.
 

Open Goal

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The tactics were all wrong — not for the first time, simply sticking with a winning formation and lineup regardless of circumstance or opponent didn’t produce the hoped for outcome — and not rotating at all after the exertions of Sunday night and after a month of extreme fixture congestion was foolishly naive as well. Leaving Christian Pulisic on the bench was an especially hilarious choice, especially given his jaw-dropping impact when introduced on the hour-mark.
And then, there’s Kepa Arrizabalaga, who’s once again the lightning rod for all the criticism because he doesn’t dive helplessly and instead just stares helplessly. People of course appreciate effort. But the one thing we should appreciate more than just raw effort is actually good defending, strong midfield play, and not making stupid mistakes. Firmino getting between Zouma and Azpilicueta for a free header is not on Kepa. Willian turning the ball over to Keïta, with Jorginho and Kovačić both ahead of the ball already and Rüdiger not stepping up to give a free shot from 20 yards is not on Kepa — we seemingly can’t play Liverpool without someone scoring a worldie. Speaking of which, Trent Alexander-Arnold producing a world class free kick from what was, at best a questionable foul, is not on Kepa. Jorginho handling a Giroud clearing header on a corner and the ball falling to Wijnaldum for a snap-shot is not on Kepa.


Kepa’s of course not faultless, and certainly not flawless. He’s a non-presence in the six-yard box and on crosses and he has this amazing ability to make himself seem smaller than his nearly six-foot frame. His statistics are trash, and it’s been decided that he’s the worst. At this point, the narrative’s set to hound him out even if he improves. But Kepa’s far from the team’s only problem, and maybe not even the biggest problem, despite the deluge of criticism and constant overdue attention on him from all quarters, online and off, fans, media, Twitter, everyone.

Conceding five goals is a collective failing. Finding someone to blame might make it easier to handle things, but it’s far too narrow a view to be actually useful. It would be amazing and rather convenient if all we needed to do was change the goalkeeper to suddenly turn Chelsea into a title-contending team, consistent, confident, mistake-free. But that’s going to take time. It might of course involve jettisoning Kepa — if we can work that out somehow — but he probably should have company as we light that one-way rocket into the Sun. However, that’s not the focus right now and nor should it be. We have two games left, with two goals to accomplish: finishing in the top four and winning the FA Cup.
Kepa or not Kepa, Chelsea will have to do a lot better the next two weekends to finish the season in the top-four and with the FA Cup trophy as well.

 

Eddy_JukeZ

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12 league defeats for Chelsea now and 53 goals conceded for some context Brighton in 16th have also conceded 53 goals.

As one Liverpool podcast host tweeted the other day.

The greatest trick Frank Lampard ever pulled was getting people to forget that Chelsea finished third last season (with more points than they’re going to get this), and won the Europa League to boot. You’d think he’d taken over mid-table no-hopers.
They lost their best player and Kante has declined/been injured.

Their back 4 + GK is probably the worst from the big 6.

Their team isn't really that good.

I don't think Lampard is that good either though.
 

roonster09

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12 league defeats for Chelsea now and 53 goals conceded for some context Brighton in 16th have also conceded 53 goals.

As one Liverpool podcast host tweeted the other day.

The greatest trick Frank Lampard ever pulled was getting people to forget that Chelsea finished third last season (with more points than they’re going to get this), and won the Europa League to boot. You’d think he’d taken over mid-table no-hopers.
Conceded 54 league goals, only 7 teams have conceded more.
 

roonster09

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I know Kepa is very poor keeper but I don't know why he is getting criticism for this game at all. You can all post any xG but there are very few keepers who would have saved those shots. Maybe Chelsea were unlucky that Liverpool scored 2 amazing goals, shouldn't be on Kepa.

On the other hand I don't know why anyone argues that Rudiger is good CB. Fee Chelsea fans just look for easy option to blame Kepa but their CBs are very poor too.
 

bond19821982

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I know Kepa is very poor keeper but I don't know why he is getting criticism for this game at all. You can all post any xG but there are very few keepers who would have saved those shots. Maybe Chelsea were unlucky that Liverpool scored 2 amazing goals, shouldn't be on Kepa.

On the other hand I don't know why anyone argues that Rudiger is good CB. Fee Chelsea fans just look for easy option to blame Kepa but their CBs are very poor too.
He should have dived for that FK..except that, agree - nobody is saving any other goals.
 

duffer

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I know Kepa is very poor keeper but I don't know why he is getting criticism for this game at all. You can all post any xG but there are very few keepers who would have saved those shots. Maybe Chelsea were unlucky that Liverpool scored 2 amazing goals, shouldn't be on Kepa.
I certainly can't blame Kepa for the he goals last night (maybe the last one, gets a full hand on it but still goes in).

That being said, he's easily the worst goalie I can ever remember us having. Get Dmitry Kharine back.
 

Mb194dc

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Defensive issues belong to the whole team and are also tactical. Kepa is very short on confidence, any GK will have this problem playing for us as we currently concede a lot of good chances and therefore goals, is the scapegoat. We should have broken the counter attack up with a tactical foul for 5 yesterday.

Attacking signings won't improve us much next season. The main thing we need to improve is defensive organisation and tactics.

That being said, had you offered us needing a point in last home game v Wolves for top 4 and FA cup final pre season, would bite your hand off. We're still in CL as well, granted need a miracle... Bayern haven't played competitive game for a month, so at least we should be able give good account of ourselves.

Not realistic to expect more or for Lampard to be a defensive organisational genius after 1 season in the championship experience.
 

always_hoping

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Big thing that you seem to conveniently forget is that this season chelsea lost Hazard.
Hazard ended last season with 16 goals and 16 assists in the league last season to get Chelsea 3rd.
Thats about 51% of Chelsea's 63 league goals last season lost, Chelsea were essentially Hazard FC last season, he carried the team to 3rd place finish, losing him without a replacement was a massive blow
Abraham stepped in and scored around the same amount of league goals as Hazard got last season and Chelsea haven't done too badly in the assists this season either but they were shared around.

On another note If Pulisic is managed right Chelsea have a big game player on their hands in the years ahead.
 

roonster09

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I certainly can't blame Kepa for the he goals last night (maybe the last one, gets a full hand on it but still goes in).

That being said, he's easily the worst goalie I can ever remember us having. Get Dmitry Kharine back.
Yeah, he looks like a school boy, completely devoid of any confidence. Must be one of the top priority position for Chelsea to address next season.
 

Feed Me

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You think because the club spent huge on a player, fans can't think he is shit?

The fact we spent so much on him makes it more frustrating, not less!
I’m more railing against the media who generally give certain clubs an easier ride. Kepa is genuinely abysmal and yet the weight of criticism on De Gea is a lot greater. The difference is maybe that De Gea is making obvious errors, whereas Kepa just refuses to save any ball. £70m and a seven year contract should be garnering a lot more negative coverage than it does. As should you conceding 54 league goals. And yet all I see in terms of coverage of Chelsea is how good a job Lampard is doing. You’re going into the final game with a very real chance of missing the top four, having been there pretty much all season, because you have a coaching team incapable of organising a back line.
 

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They lost last night but I can't help but be impressed by the fact that he took Liverpool on at Anfield playing a high line, creating lots of chances, scoring lots of goals and just missing out on a point. Of course they lost the game and were in 3rd ahead of them, but in the long run, I think being able to go toe to toe with the best in the business especially away from home is important. Would love for us to play Liverpool this aggressively next season.
I think they were naive. You had a fully concentrated and motivated Chelsea versus a Liverpool team that has phoned it in since becoming champions and yet Liverpool had them at arm’s length the whole game.
 

duffer

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I’m more railing against the media who generally give certain clubs an easier ride.
That's not what you did, at all. You criticised a fan for moaning about a player.

How the flying feck is that "rallying against the media"? Give Sky TV a call if you actually give a shit. You won't, because you don't actually really care that much.
 

Buchan

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The tactics were all wrong — not for the first time, simply sticking with a winning formation and lineup regardless of circumstance or opponent didn’t produce the hoped for outcome — and not rotating at all after the exertions of Sunday night and after a month of extreme fixture congestion was foolishly naive as well. Leaving Christian Pulisic on the bench was an especially hilarious choice, especially given his jaw-dropping impact when introduced on the hour-mark.
And then, there’s Kepa Arrizabalaga, who’s once again the lightning rod for all the criticism because he doesn’t dive helplessly and instead just stares helplessly. People of course appreciate effort. But the one thing we should appreciate more than just raw effort is actually good defending, strong midfield play, and not making stupid mistakes. Firmino getting between Zouma and Azpilicueta for a free header is not on Kepa. Willian turning the ball over to Keïta, with Jorginho and Kovačić both ahead of the ball already and Rüdiger not stepping up to give a free shot from 20 yards is not on Kepa — we seemingly can’t play Liverpool without someone scoring a worldie. Speaking of which, Trent Alexander-Arnold producing a world class free kick from what was, at best a questionable foul, is not on Kepa. Jorginho handling a Giroud clearing header on a corner and the ball falling to Wijnaldum for a snap-shot is not on Kepa.


Kepa’s of course not faultless, and certainly not flawless. He’s a non-presence in the six-yard box and on crosses and he has this amazing ability to make himself seem smaller than his nearly six-foot frame. His statistics are trash, and it’s been decided that he’s the worst. At this point, the narrative’s set to hound him out even if he improves. But Kepa’s far from the team’s only problem, and maybe not even the biggest problem, despite the deluge of criticism and constant overdue attention on him from all quarters, online and off, fans, media, Twitter, everyone.

Conceding five goals is a collective failing. Finding someone to blame might make it easier to handle things, but it’s far too narrow a view to be actually useful. It would be amazing and rather convenient if all we needed to do was change the goalkeeper to suddenly turn Chelsea into a title-contending team, consistent, confident, mistake-free. But that’s going to take time. It might of course involve jettisoning Kepa — if we can work that out somehow — but he probably should have company as we light that one-way rocket into the Sun. However, that’s not the focus right now and nor should it be. We have two games left, with two goals to accomplish: finishing in the top four and winning the FA Cup.
Kepa or not Kepa, Chelsea will have to do a lot better the next two weekends to finish the season in the top-four and with the FA Cup trophy as well.
Very good post. I agree with pretty much all of it.
 

WeePat

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The tactics were all wrong — not for the first time, simply sticking with a winning formation and lineup regardless of circumstance or opponent didn’t produce the hoped for outcome — and not rotating at all after the exertions of Sunday night and after a month of extreme fixture congestion was foolishly naive as well. Leaving Christian Pulisic on the bench was an especially hilarious choice, especially given his jaw-dropping impact when introduced on the hour-mark.
And then, there’s Kepa Arrizabalaga, who’s once again the lightning rod for all the criticism because he doesn’t dive helplessly and instead just stares helplessly. People of course appreciate effort. But the one thing we should appreciate more than just raw effort is actually good defending, strong midfield play, and not making stupid mistakes. Firmino getting between Zouma and Azpilicueta for a free header is not on Kepa. Willian turning the ball over to Keïta, with Jorginho and Kovačić both ahead of the ball already and Rüdiger not stepping up to give a free shot from 20 yards is not on Kepa — we seemingly can’t play Liverpool without someone scoring a worldie. Speaking of which, Trent Alexander-Arnold producing a world class free kick from what was, at best a questionable foul, is not on Kepa. Jorginho handling a Giroud clearing header on a corner and the ball falling to Wijnaldum for a snap-shot is not on Kepa.


Kepa’s of course not faultless, and certainly not flawless. He’s a non-presence in the six-yard box and on crosses and he has this amazing ability to make himself seem smaller than his nearly six-foot frame. His statistics are trash, and it’s been decided that he’s the worst. At this point, the narrative’s set to hound him out even if he improves. But Kepa’s far from the team’s only problem, and maybe not even the biggest problem, despite the deluge of criticism and constant overdue attention on him from all quarters, online and off, fans, media, Twitter, everyone.

Conceding five goals is a collective failing. Finding someone to blame might make it easier to handle things, but it’s far too narrow a view to be actually useful. It would be amazing and rather convenient if all we needed to do was change the goalkeeper to suddenly turn Chelsea into a title-contending team, consistent, confident, mistake-free. But that’s going to take time. It might of course involve jettisoning Kepa — if we can work that out somehow — but he probably should have company as we light that one-way rocket into the Sun. However, that’s not the focus right now and nor should it be. We have two games left, with two goals to accomplish: finishing in the top four and winning the FA Cup.
Kepa or not Kepa, Chelsea will have to do a lot better the next two weekends to finish the season in the top-four and with the FA Cup trophy as well.
I don't think anybody is claiming we have a title winning defence. There's a reason Lampard has rotated the back line so much. They're all at a similar level, average to decent. They're not faultless and they're certainly not without their critics. Do you think Christensen, Rudiger, Zouma etc haven't been criticised and mercilessly mocked by Chelsea fans?

It has not been 'decided' that he's the worst. He is the worst in the league by every metric worth looking at. The criticism he gets isn't unwarranted. It can get over the top hysterical on twitter sometimes, but that's a par for the course on twitter, and certainly not something unique to criticisms of Kepa.

Our defence, Kepa aside, is generally comparable to a team like United. Player for player, I think the two clubs have a similar quality of defenders, yet we've conceded nearly 20 goals more than United this season. That could be down a variety of issues; Lampard's ability to coach defensive organisation, too much CB rotation [we've not had a settled partnership all season], individual errors, being unlucky sometimes, but for me, the most pressing concern by some distance is our historically terrible goalkeeper.


If your point is that Kepa is bad but we should also talk about the defence, then fair enough, but kind of a moot point because people were already doing that and Kepa isn't being singled out. If your point is that Kepa is diverting criticism away from the our defence, then I will politely disagree, and invite you to search for Christensen and Rudiger [even Reece James] on twitter or any Chelsea forum/blog.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I think they were naive. You had a fully concentrated and motivated Chelsea versus a Liverpool team that has phoned it in since becoming champions and yet Liverpool had them at arm’s length the whole game.
One could argue that. On the other hand, this is the best Liverpool side for 3 decades who rarely draw a game at home, against a Chelsea team with the young manager and a transfer ban seeing a lot of youth being brought through. Given that context, it takes for a brave manager to play on the front foot against them and manage to be level or thereabouts in terms of possession and shots. Now, I don't know where Frank will end up - being the past it level Arsene Wenger (nice football but no success) or a genuinely high quality attacking manager. But I do think his set up is extremely pleasing on the eye and pretty progressive/expansive. Up to him to show that he can coach a complete team and genuinely challenge for honours.
 

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:lol:

Some are saying Lampard was having a word with 4th official about the 'foul' that led to TAA's goal, then someone from Liverpool's bench told him to sit down. I don't know what's true and what isn't, but I found the exchange utterly hilarious
 

roonster09

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:lol:

Some are saying Lampard was having a word with 4th official about the 'foul' that led to TAA's goal, then someone from Liverpool's bench told him to sit down. I don't know what's true and what isn't, but I found the exchange utterly hilarious
It looks true, Lampard says something about sitting down.
 

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Isnt the biggest weakness for a back 3/5 width? Which is Liverpools biggest strength?
Honestly think it was a tactical misstep last night
 

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One could argue that. On the other hand, this is the best Liverpool side for 3 decades who rarely draw a game at home, against a Chelsea team with the young manager and a transfer ban seeing a lot of youth being brought through. Given that context, it takes for a brave manager to play on the front foot against them and manage to be level or thereabouts in terms of possession and shots. Now, I don't know where Frank will end up - being the past it level Arsene Wenger (nice football but no success) or a genuinely high quality attacking manager. But I do think his set up is extremely pleasing on the eye and pretty progressive/expansive. Up to him to show that he can coach a complete team and genuinely challenge for honours.
I don't think draw was impossible result to get. Let us not forget Burnley just a week and a half ago drew them at anfield, Arsenal freaking arsenal beat them. Yes this Liverpool side has been amazing but since the restart they have been playing an indifferent football and had Chelsea been a bit smarter they could have salvaged a point. Also, not starting Pulisic was a strange decision. If I were a Chelsea fan I would have been pissed with that decision alone.

I agree that they did play some good football in second half but then Liverpool were 4-1 up and had salah had his finishing boots it would have been 5 or 6 by 60th minute so I am not too sure if Lampard was smart with his tactics.
 

SambaBoy

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Haven't Chelsea agreed to sign a GK from the Turkish league? Seen reports on Twitter last week that it was basically done for £27m but haven't heard anything since.
 
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cyberman

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One could argue that. On the other hand, this is the best Liverpool side for 3 decades who rarely draw a game at home, against a Chelsea team with the young manager and a transfer ban seeing a lot of youth being brought through. Given that context, it takes for a brave manager to play on the front foot against them and manage to be level or thereabouts in terms of possession and shots. Now, I don't know where Frank will end up - being the past it level Arsene Wenger (nice football but no success) or a genuinely high quality attacking manager. But I do think his set up is extremely pleasing on the eye and pretty progressive/expansive. Up to him to show that he can coach a complete team and genuinely challenge for honours.
They were 3-0 down at half time while playing a back 5 that were called cowardly by fans on here when Ole did it.
 

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Isnt the biggest weakness for a back 3/5 width? Which is Liverpools biggest strength?
Honestly think it was a tactical misstep last night
How can 5 at the back have an issue of width? Short answer: no, the exact opposite. It's also the formation Mourinho used to good effect to nullify 4-3-3 formations of City/Liverpool.

It's more about tactics and quality. If your wingbacks spend all their time attacking, don't pay attention and don't track the fullbacks very well, you can get outnumbered. If they play how they're supposed to, you don't. If one team has a very well functioning attack and the other has dysfunctional, sub-par defence, it's easy to blame it on the formation instead. People forget Liverpool have been tearing defences to shreds at Anfield, they have 17w and 1d. Chelsea were always unlikely to come away with anything there, whichever way they set up.