2019/20 Rivals - Chelsea

[NewGlory]

You also should consider what they achieved. No one is expecting Lampard to win the league and CL? It should be good enough for top 4.

Yeap. Exactly!

Also @UweBein, I totally agree that Pep had Messi in the squad, Zidane had Ronaldo - no doubt about that, but well then it’s not all about “top level experience” of the coach, is it? That’s what was floated as a knock on Lampard (and is often mentioned for Ole). So which one is it? Good squad or “top level experienced coach”? If you have great team then “top-level experience” is not necessary? OK, but then it follows that it’s more about the squad and talent and less about whether coaches have the “top level experience”. Ole and Lampard can succeed, they do have enough experience. They can succeed even where LVG and Mourinho have failed...

P.S. it is also important to mention that while Pep did get Messi and Xavi and Iniesta, he did NOT just play the squad he inherited. Pep kicked-out half of the “stars” he inherited immediately upon arrival. So to some extent Pep did rebuild the squad, he wasn’t just easing into past success

 

[Bullhitter]

Yes, I did mean you. Well, as things stand I would pick Man Utd above us (they do not have a snake in their nest anymore and AWB is decent transfer; also it's not like we were miles above 4th, 5th and 6th last season.)

I think Chelsea finished a handful of points lower than they should have last season while Spurs probably finished the same amount higher than they should have.

A Chelsea drop off from Hazard leaving and no incoming transfers coupled with spurs improving and they are ahead enough to not even consider them.

I don't expect 4th but I do expect to be well in the mix for it.

 

[Dancfc]

I think Chelsea finished a handful of points lower than they should have last season while Spurs probably finished the same amount higher than they should have.

A Chelsea drop off from Hazard leaving and no incoming transfers coupled with spurs improving and they are ahead enough to not even consider them.

I don't expect 4th but I do expect to be well in the mix for it.

The XP metre had us on roughly the same as we got while United, Arsenal and Spurs overperformed by about 10 points give or take. If results start catching up with 2 of them that will give us a little bit of leeway.

 

[P-Ro]

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The song's offensive line is 'Oh Frankie Lampard, he scored 200 against the pikeys' directed at West Ham fans. Perhaps I'm just a massive twat (...well I am) but I think it's an overreaction and it's one of my favourite songs. The word is basically slang in London for a chav. Gypsy guys at my boxing years ago said that it's only racist if its actually intended to insult them, as gypsies.

 

[UnitedObsession99]

Yeap. Exactly!

Also @UweBein, I totally agree that Pep had Messi in the squad, Zidane had Ronaldo - no doubt about that, but well then it’s not all about “top level experience” of the coach, is it? That’s what was floated as a knock on Lampard (and is often mentioned for Ole). So which one is it? Good squad or “top level experienced coach”? If you have great team then “top-level experience” is not necessary? OK, but then it follows that it’s more about the squad and talent and less about whether coaches have the “top level experience”. Ole and Lampard can succeed, they do have enough experience. They can succeed even where LVG and Mourinho have failed...

P.S. it is also important to mention that while Pep did get Messi and Xavi and Iniesta, he did NOT just play the squad he inherited. Pep kicked-out half of the “stars” he inherited immediately upon arrival. So to some extent Pep did rebuild the squad, he wasn’t just easing into past success

Most clubs don't have the budgets to kick out a bunch of stars (usually at a loss) and rebuild (at massive cost).

I guess you can easily discredit any manager, but at least Mourinho and SAF did it at lesser clubs first. They earned their opportunity. To be fair so has Ole to some extent as winning the league with Molde was a major achievement given that's the first time in their history.

However you look at it, coaching players to fulfil their potential and some is relevant at any level.

 

[Bullhitter]

Pikey is a derogatory word and the song is "taking aim" at another team/set of fans so clearly is intended as such. Anybody singing it is a moron in my opinion.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

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The song's offensive line is 'Oh Frankie Lampard, he scored 200 against the pikeys' directed at West Ham fans. Perhaps I'm just a massive twat (...well I am) but I think it's an overreaction and it's one of my favourite songs. The word is basically slang in London for a chav. Gypsy guys at my boxing years ago said that it's only racist if its actually intended to insult them, as gypsies.

Poppycock. As much as it has been desensitised over the years, it's still a very very degrading term. I'm sure you gypsy friends wouldn't like to be called Pikey. I'm sure they'd be much less offended if you call them a chav

 

[Kostov]

How is Pulisic doing for Chelsea?

 

[P-Ro]

How is Pulisic doing for Chelsea?

Scored 2 and won a penalty today. He was hot and cold in his first couple of games.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

What's their best lineup going to be?

 

[Mb194dc]

What's their best lineup going to be?

Doubt even Lampard knows exactly. Only certainties are Kepa and Kante starting when fit.

We've looked good going forward in pre season. Shipping some really poor goals though. Utd and Liverpool first two games going to be massive tests.

 

[Balotelli's Bib]

Going to be interesting to see Giroud lead the line a lot of this season. Still rate the bloke.

Top 4 seems like a big ask for Chelsea this season though. Good luck to them either way.

 

[Bullhitter]

What's their best lineup going to be?

4-2-3-1

-----------------------------Kepa---------------------------------

Azpilicueta -------- Zouma----------Luiz-------------Emerson


------------------Kante--------------Kovacic-------------

Pedro ------------------Barkley ---------------Pulisic

-----------------------Abraham---------------------


I think that's what will start, only doubt being possibly Jorginho over Kovacic.

Rudiger to replace Zouma when fit.

Loftus-Cheek to replace Barkley or Kovacic when fit.

Hudson-Odoi to replace Pedro when fit.

 

[TheeAma12]

4-2-3-1

-----------------------------Kepa---------------------------------

Azpilicueta -------- Zouma----------Luiz-------------Emerson


------------------Kante--------------Kovacic-------------

Pedro ------------------Barkley ---------------Pulisic

-----------------------Abraham---------------------


I think that's what will start, only doubt being possibly Jorginho over Kovacic.

Rudiger to replace Zouma when fit.

Loftus-Cheek to replace Barkley or Kovacic when fit.

Hudson-Odoi to replace Pedro when fit.

Jorginho will start, he's still our best midfielder when taking the ball under pressure and at playing out of the back. The #10 spot is gonna be up in the air, Mount, Barkley and Rlc are gonna have to fight alot for that spot. I can see Pulisic still starting even when CHO is fit, he's not gonna walk into the side as many might think. Abraham no doubt though i think will be tried as the #1 striker for a couple matches.

 

[duffer]

Makalele is back as a "technical mentor".

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Makelele will be based largely at our Cobham training ground, working closely with individual Academy players, tracking technical performances in both training and matches as they reach a critical point in their professional development.

The 46-year-old will also work with Chelsea players out on loan, visiting them at their clubs and providing regular match feedback.

Sounds like a pretty sweet job.

 

[Relfy]

I can only see them regressing this season. They lost their main creative outlet and have an untested manager in only his 2nd season as a manager. My guess is 5th or 6th or possibly slipping to 7th.

 

[Adisa]

I think they will be fine. 3rd or 4th.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I can only see them regressing this season. They lost their main creative outlet and have an untested manager in only his 2nd season as a manager. My guess is 5th or 6th or possibly slipping to 7th.

Their main creative outlet AND their main source of goals. Without being replaced .. unless you count Pulisic.

And then they hired a championship manager to try and save the day .. should be a joy to watch them fail.

 

[Mb194dc]

Great news Claude is back.Will Lamps give him a penalty again late in the season if our league position assured ?

Bit crazy to think we've just got Monchengladbach left pre season, then Utd away and Liverpool in the Super Cup, not slow start to this season for sure. Hopefully Kante fit and Lampard got our tactics and first XI sorted and ready.

 

[robinamicrowave]

Hardly title-winning quality but they'll be fine for top 6 if Lampard has anything about him.

Kepa
Azpilicueta, Rudiger, Luiz, Emerson
Kante, Jorginho, Barkley
Pulisic, Giroud, Pedro

Caballero
Zappacosta, Zouma, Christensen, Alonso
Kovacic, Drinkwater, Loftus-Cheek
Willian, Abraham, Hudson-Odoi

 

[Dancfc]

Their main creative outlet AND their main source of goals. Without being replaced .. unless you count Pulisic.

And then they hired a championship manager to try and save the day .. should be a joy to watch them fail.

We'd still find a way to have a better season than Spurs.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

We'd still find a way to have a better season than Spurs.

Nah another 15/16 awaits. Popcorn at the ready.

 

[Dancfc]

Nah another 15/16 awaits.

Does that means your dreams end at Stamford Bridge?

 

[duffer]

Hardly title-winning quality but they'll be fine for top 6 if Lampard has anything about him.

Gonna be 4231 rather than 433.

Pulisic will will young player of the season.

 

[SportingCP96]

I hope Pulisic becomes the player I know he could be!

 

[Gringo]

Think we'll see much of a muchness. Lampard will be more reactive to opposition tactics where as Sarri was a little stubborn in changing from his set ways. Pedro and Willian can't be as poor as they were last season and Pulisic while not Eden Hazard Mk2, has the quickness of footing and close ball control to cause defensives issues. They'll be fine.

 

[Kablamo]

Their main creative outlet AND their main source of goals. Without being replaced .. unless you count Pulisic.

And then they hired a championship manager to try and save the day .. should be a joy to watch them fail.

Hah! Primark Glaston doing his prediction thing again.

Noticed how quiet you went on the Chelsea 18/19 thread during May. Funny how it happened around the same time you didn't end up "7 points" in front of us, choked in the Champions League final and had to watch us finish above you in 3rd and make it 21 trophies in 22 years.

And for the record, none of those trophies were the Audi Cup.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Going to be interesting to see Giroud lead the line a lot of this season. Still rate the bloke.

Top 4 seems like a big ask for Chelsea this season though. Good luck to them either way.

Does it? They finished in 3rd last season, effectively 7 points clear of United - it won't be easy to displace them from top 4.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Hah! Primark Glaston doing his prediction thing again.

Noticed how quiet you went on the Chelsea 18/19 thread during May. Funny how it happened around the same time you didn't end up "7 points" in front of us, choked in the Champions League final and had to watch us finish above you in 3rd and make it 21 trophies in 22 years.

And for the record, none of those trophies were the Audi Cup.

Choked in the champions league final by losing to a team far better than us . Couldn't give a feck about you finishing a meaningless place above us when we were in the final of the biggest competition in club football and you were in the emmerdale cup.

And yeah, well done, you won a bunch of trophies because you got funded by petrodollars. Mega impressive. But the money's running a little drier than usual and Abramovich isn't allowed in the country because he's a giant crook, and because of your cheating ways you can't replace players anyway. So I'll sit back and enjoy you next season now the 'get the ball to hazard' tactic can't be employed.

 

[Dancfc]

Choked in the champions league final by losing to a team far better than us . Couldn't give a feck about you finishing a meaningless place above us when we were in the final of the biggest competition in club football and you were in the emmerdale cup.

And yeah, well done, you won a bunch of trophies because you got funded by petrodollars. Mega impressive. But the money's running a little drier than usual and Abramovich isn't allowed in the country because he's a giant crook, and because of your cheating ways you can't replace players anyway. So I'll sit back and enjoy you next season now the 'get the ball to hazard' tactic can't be employed.

Money doesn't guarantee success, you lot tried it for a good 30 years and ended up with a team that couldn't beat Chelsea for over a decade

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Money doesn't guarantee success, you lot tried it for a good 30 years and ended up with a team that couldn't beat Chelsea for over a decade

The situations are so comparable.

You were backed to a stupid degree, at the point of which you're basically guaranteed success. Basically every petro/oil dollar owner who has been serious about a club has experienced success because the financial advantages are too great, same with City. Might have a testy period but it'll work eventually and the trophies will come in, it's not exactly something these clubs have to genuinely work for.

But now Roman isn't the biggest bully in the yard and he seems to be retreating a bit, so maybe Chelsea fans will remember what being a 'normal' club is like soon enough. This season should be a good start.

 

[charlenefan]

Hardly title-winning quality but they'll be fine for top 6 if Lampard has anything about him.

Strong contender for manager of the season if Lampard were to get that lot into the top 4

 

[Dancfc]

The situations are so comparable.

You were backed to a stupid degree, at the point of which you're basically guaranteed success. Basically every petro/oil dollar owner who has been serious about a club has experienced success because the financial advantages are too great, same with City. Might have a testy period but it'll work eventually and the trophies will come in, it's not exactly something these clubs have to genuinely work for.

But now Roman isn't the biggest bully in the yard and he seems to be retreating a bit, so maybe Chelsea fans will remember what being a 'normal' club is like soon enough. This season should be a good start.

You were constantly snapping up talent that any club in the world would have also loved. If you think you were constantly beating the worlds biggest and richest clubs (in terms of not only offers to the players current club but player himself too) solely on club generated income then well, ok then.

Well when we were a "normal" club i bet you weren't feeling like one, what was it 19 years of Chelsea invincibility at White Hart Lane? 16 of which when we were supposedly nothing, ouch!

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

You were constantly snapping up talent that any club in the world would have also loved. If you think you were constantly beating the worlds biggest and richest clubs (in terms of not only offers to the players current club but player himself too) solely on club generated income then well, ok then.

Well when we were a "normal" club i bet you weren't feeling like one, what was it 19 years of Chelsea invincibility at White Hart Lane? 16 of which when we were supposedly nothing, ouch!

It clearly wasn't comparable to the god knows how much Abramovich has invested in to Chelsea. That was before the petro/oil barons who completely outstripped regular owners/changed the conventions of running a football club and turned in to to a billionaire's playground.

I didn't say you were nothing, I said you were a normal club who didn't have a stupid advantage over your competitors in the form of a gangster billionaire behind the club. You were a regular football club who had to build itself up like everybody else and function under the same rules, I imagine most of your fans have forgotten what that is like, in fact most of them probably weren't even around back then or have moved on to a lighter shade of blue. The brags about the silverware from clubs who are backed to this degree are always a bit hollow to me but whatever floats your boat. You were hardly big time trophy winners back when you didn't have the Russian's funds.

 

[Dancfc]

It clearly wasn't comparable to the god knows how much Abramovich has invested in to Chelsea. That was before the petro/oil barons who completely outstripped regular owners/changed the conventions of running a football club and turned in to to a billionaire's playground.

I didn't say you were nothing, I said you were a normal club who didn't have a stupid advantage over your competitors in the form of a gangster billionaire behind the club. You were a regular football club who had to build itself up like everybody else and function under the same rules, I imagine most of your fans have forgotten what that is like, in fact most of them probably weren't even around back then or have moved on to a lighter shade of blue. The brags about the silverware from clubs who are backed to this degree are always a bit hollow to me but whatever floats your boat. You were hardly big time trophy winners back when you didn't have the Russian's funds.

I don't think any fan denies that Roman played a big part in putting us on the map, however no successful club is solely built organically. AC Milan (arguably the worlds biggest club save for Real) were bankrolled by Berlusconi in their golden era yet no one seems to take shots at them. I may have been a bit sarcastic relaying the point but this notion of clubs growing organically and cleanly is fantasy. United for example were about to cease as a club as Newton Heath until rich benefactors arrived.

However you may want to relax your expectations if you are still holding hope for Roman getting bored and us disappearing into the abyss. We have grown massively as a club in the modern era in pretty much every aspect if he decides to leave we will have potential owners lining up (one of England's wealthiest men has already tried his luck lately), we may not have been a huge club in 1994 but make no mistake we are now.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I don't think any fan denies that Roman played a big part in putting us on the map, however no successful club is solely built organically. AC Milan (arguably the worlds biggest club save for Real) were bankrolled by Berlusconi in their golden era yet no one seems to take shots at them. I may have been a bit sarcastic relaying the point but this notion of clubs growing organically and cleanly is fantasy. United for example were about to cease as a club as Newton Heath until rich benefactors arrived.

However you may want to relax your expectations if you are still holding hope for Roman getting bored and us disappearing into the abyss. We have grown massively as a club in the modern era in pretty much every aspect if he decides to leave we will have potential owners lining up (one of England's wealthiest men has already tried his luck lately), we may not have been a huge club in 1994 but make no mistake we are now.

There's a difference between rich benefactors helping a club build itself and a billionaire plunging completely unprecedented amounts of funds in to a club over a short period of time. United/Milan etc may have had helping hands but they still went about building a legacy a more traditional route, you were purchased by a Russian gangster who then basically made you a success story overnight in football terms.

You're a big club but the hope is that without Roman you'll have to just behave like a normal big club and get owners who don't just throw money around to build their egos. It's much harder to be successful in that model than it is in the old chelsea/current city model where the owners are basically using you as a play toy. Next season for example if you end up missing out on the CL and need to do a big rebuild, a hell of a lot of money is going to need to be invested to replace Hazard and then some, does Abramovich still have the desire for that kind of investment?

 

[Pow]

Sigh spurs fans.
We dont have to win a single trophy from now till the day i die. Ive seen us win everything and then some and some amazing memories at this club. Whatever happens in the future is a bonus no team is guaranteed to win trophies nor has a divine right to. Ive never seen liverpool win the league in my lifetime but they once dominated. And now united after 2 decades plus of nigh domination of this league havent come close since ferguson retired.
This year is a free hit for frank. Weve got exciting youngsters to play and hopefully they play with freedom. Besides worry about youre own team. No success to speak of a your best era in my life time is potless and will be remembered for putting the pressure on and paul merson completely destroying them...

 

[Bullhitter]

I don't know why some of you bother to reply to people who obviously can't discuss things without removing their allegiance blinkers. Are these people 12 years old?

Jorginho will start, he's still our best midfielder when taking the ball under pressure and at playing out of the back. The #10 spot is gonna be up in the air, Mount, Barkley and Rlc are gonna have to fight alot for that spot. I can see Pulisic still starting even when CHO is fit, he's not gonna walk into the side as many might think. Abraham no doubt though i think will be tried as the #1 striker for a couple matches.

You're probably right on Jorginho but I would start Kovacic. I can see United smothering Jorginho out of the game and pressing from there.

 

[Pow]

I don't know why some of you bother to reply to people who obviously can't discuss things without removing their allegiance blinkers. Are these people 12 years old?



You're probably right on Jorginho but I would start Kovacic. I can see United smothering Jorginho out of the game and pressing from there.

One thing jorgi has over kova is the long through ball. Could be a weapon aimed at pulisic.

 

[Dancfc]

There's a difference between rich benefactors helping a club build itself and a billionaire plunging completely unprecedented amounts of funds in to a club over a short period of time. United/Milan etc may have had helping hands but they still went about building a legacy a more traditional route, you were purchased by a Russian gangster who then basically made you a success story overnight in football terms.

You're a big club but the hope is that without Roman you'll have to just behave like a normal big club and get owners who don't just throw money around to build their egos. It's much harder to be successful in that model than it is in the old chelsea/current city model where the owners are basically using you as a play toy. Next season for example if you end up missing out on the CL and need to do a big rebuild, a hell of a lot of money is going to need to be invested to replace Hazard and then some, does Abramovich still have the desire for that kind of investment?

You seem to be under the notion he still "throws his money around", he doesn't especially not in transfers.

After the first few years the transfers went quite quiet for half a decade (until the Torres/Luiz January). Between 2007-2010 we spent on average just over £20m a summer and that was gross. We spent big again in 2012 due to the CL win money but beyond that and January11 we certainly weren't "big spending" post 2006 until recent years with the TV deals coming in (which is allowing even newly promoted to go £100m summer sprees).

As for the window yes I do believe we will spend regardless of CL football and we will have no problem attracting players. The last time we missed out on CL football we got Jorginho and Kovacic from CL clubs while up against CL clubs for their signature's and the time before that we got Kante and Luiz (also from CL clubs) while attracting one of the most high profile managers in the game.

Furthermore I don't think replacing Hazard is the problem, we are solving that by going down a more collective responsibility route (something that is more than evident in pre season), there's no main man and more equal responsibility for goals and attacking play (a bit like our team under Mou 1.0 although obviously way of that level) and I think in CHO and Pulisic we could have top players in those areas for years. Where we lack is fullback and striker departments (put it this way, replace Azpi and Emerson with Walker and prime Rose and we walse into top three even with losing Hazard and a striker issue, that's how much a difference I believe dynamic attacking fullbacks would make).