2019/20 Rivals - Spurs

vadimivich

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Rose is fine, not great - his problem is he gets hurt all the time. Kyle Walker-Peters has been "ok" so far this season, but he's not really the right wing dynamo that someone like Kyle Walker was. Don't know if both need massive upgrades, but Spurs need to get at least one really top class fullback in. Doesn't really matter which side.

Also, the diamond formation needs to die. Not sure why Poch keeps going back to it, but we look like total dogshit every time it's tried.
 

Sweech

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Perhaps you can have a poll to see whether anyone thinks spurs will win a trophy? Makes me chuckle for all spurs’ bluster, they never actually win anything - unless the Audi Cup now counts?
:lol:

Savage but fair.

City were all over them yesterday but always have one result like this at the start of the season when they are not quite in rhythm.

Spurs, for all their bluster, will do what they always do – finish in the top four but win nothing.

No idea why their fan base, in general, is so arrogant.
Bluster and arrogance? About what? Having a decent team that people only take pot shots at?

Odd response.
 

BarcaSpurs

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Poch tactics so far have been awful. The Diamond we used against Villa is just terrible and leaves us with no wide outlets other than our full backs that aren't good going forward and on occasion Sissoko/Ndombele drift out there to offer support but are hardly De Bruyne or Pogba in the wide channels. Then against City benching Lucas meant we had absolutely nobody who can offer a threat in behind which is vital to a team looking to counter attack, they could press us all day knowing we didn't have the personnel to quickly play through it. Incredibly lucky to come away with a point.

Son coming back will hopefully rectify things but I still fear the diamond.

Would prefer to see this long term


Sissoko Ndombele
Lo Celso Eriksen Son/Moura
Kane
 

BarcaSpurs

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It's Glaston. When people generalise Spurs fans here what they really mean is Glaston.
It's crazy how one person has managed to rattle an entire forum to the point they all despise a club they should generally have positive feelings for (Competing against Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal).
 

balaks

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It's crazy how one person has managed to rattle an entire forum to the point they all despise a club they should generally have positive feelings for (Competing against Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal).
Yeah I know, it's pretty frustrating.
 

balaks

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Poch tactics so far have been awful. The Diamond we used against Villa is just terrible and leaves us with no wide outlets other than our full backs that aren't good going forward and on occasion Sissoko/Ndombele drift out there to offer support but are hardly De Bruyne or Pogba in the wide channels. Then against City benching Lucas meant we had absolutely nobody who can offer a threat in behind which is vital to a team looking to counter attack, they could press us all day knowing we didn't have the personnel to quickly play through it. Incredibly lucky to come away with a point.

Son coming back will hopefully rectify things but I still fear the diamond.

Would prefer to see this long term


Sissoko Ndombele
Lo Celso Eriksen Son/Moura
Kane
I'm happy to give the diamond a go once we get Lo Celso into the side, perhaps he is the missing link that makes it work. Who knows.
 

hellohello

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We played well with the diamond at times last season. I don't think the main problem against City or Villa was our formation.
 

GlastonSpur

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It's crazy how one person has managed to rattle an entire forum to the point they all despise a club they should generally have positive feelings for (Competing against Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal).
Let me tell you how this came about.

When I joined this forum there were no Spurs supporters on here - or none that I ever became aware of - so any and all criticism of Spurs was directed at me. At that time Spurs had never finished in the top 4 during the Prem era, and sold star players like Carrick to stronger clubs - thus weakening us and strengthening them.

However, in due course I began to see changes in the certain trend patterns - around the time that Redknapp was appointed manager - concerning both Spurs and the (then) perennial top 4 clubs. I pointed these out, supplying supporting facts and reasoned arguments, and predicted that the old order would soon start to crumble.

This prediction was, of course, widely attacked on here - Spurs will never finish in the top 4, money will always talk etc etc. But I stuck to my guns and robustly defended what I'd said - which again some folk on here didn't like. They presumably expected me to backtrack under an avalanche of criticism - and when I didn't, the attacks started getting personal and I was supposedly being a WUM for making such predictions.

But in fact what I predicted came true. And the vast majority (not everything, but most) of the things that I've predicted since then have also come true. And some folk on here don't like that … and have in the past resorted to all sorts of shenanigans in response, up to and including widespread fabrication of things that I supposedly said, but never did.

And so here we are today. The old order has indeed crumbled, Spurs have become an established top 4 club … and are starting to become a club that few wish to face within the Champion's League.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Let me tell you how this came about.

When I joined this forum there were no Spurs supporters on here - or none that I ever became aware of - so any and all criticism of Spurs was directed at me. At that time Spurs had never finished in the top 4 during the Prem era, and sold star players like Carrick to stronger clubs - thus weakening us and strengthening them.

However, in due course I began to see changes in the certain trend patterns - around the time that Redknapp was appointed manager - concerning both Spurs and the (then) perennial top 4 clubs. I pointed these out, supplying supporting facts and reasoned arguments, and predicted that the old order would soon start to crumble.

This prediction was, of course, widely attacked on here - Spurs will never finish in the top 4, money will always talk etc etc. But I stuck to my guns and robustly defended what I'd said - which again some folk on here didn't like. They presumably expected me to backtrack under an avalanche of criticism - and when I didn't, the attacks started getting personal and I was supposedly being a WUM for making such predictions.

But in fact what I predicted came true. And the vast majority (not everything, but most) of the things that I've predicted since then have also come true. And some folk on here don't like that … and have in the past resorted to all sorts of shenanigans in response, up to and including widespread fabrication of things that I supposedly said, but never did.

And so here we are today. The old order has indeed crumbled, Spurs have become an established top 4 club … and are starting to become a club that few wish to face within the Champion's League.

You tell 'em Glaston. All hail the new footballing order.
 

BobbyManc

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Rose is fine, not great - his problem is he gets hurt all the time. Kyle Walker-Peters has been "ok" so far this season, but he's not really the right wing dynamo that someone like Kyle Walker was. Don't know if both need massive upgrades, but Spurs need to get at least one really top class fullback in. Doesn't really matter which side.

Also, the diamond formation needs to die. Not sure why Poch keeps going back to it, but we look like total dogshit every time it's tried.
What's the deal with Aurier? Is it his attitude off the field that's his main problem (based on the troubles he had at PSG) or is he just not actually that good a full-back?
 

Dec9003

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If United are the old order, we certainly have crumbled. But Tottenham weren't the ones to take our place, as much as I wish they were.
 

ash_86

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This made me laugh
 

caid

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It's crazy how one person has managed to rattle an entire forum to the point they all despise a club they should generally have positive feelings for (Competing against Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Arsenal).
Beat them when it matters and we might :)
Dec puts its pretty well

If United are the old order, we certainly have crumbled. But Tottenham weren't the ones to take our place, as much as I wish they were.
 

NoPace

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They will look better when Sissoko is on the bench.

I rate Rose, he seems to have the first touch to be comfortable when the game goes up a level in quality and other players get a bit nervous, stood out to me in last year's CL run. History will show that Poch lacked the balls to bench Trippier pre-game for Foyth even though everyone knew he was the weak link and then he immediately got beat on a clever run by Mane and a penalty and it was basically job half done at that point. Just like Ferguson not dropping Chicharito or Rooney against the great Barca team after a 4-5-1 beat Arsenal and instead going for the gung-ho team that murdered uh, Schalke, giving Vidic and Rio the protection they needed for the massive defensive effort they proved up to and could have turned the game into a fecking 50/50 mess like Chelsea did, instead of a football game we were outclassed in. Conversely, Rose could be relied on.
 

InLevyITrust

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They will look better when Sissoko is on the bench.

I rate Rose, he seems to have the first touch to be comfortable when the game goes up a level in quality and other players get a bit nervous, stood out to me in last year's CL run. History will show that Poch lacked the balls to bench Trippier pre-game for Foyth even though everyone knew he was the weak link and then he immediately got beat on a clever run by Mane and a penalty and it was basically job half done at that point. Just like Ferguson not dropping Chicharito or Rooney against the great Barca team after a 4-5-1 beat Arsenal and instead going for the gung-ho team that murdered uh, Schalke, giving Vidic and Rio the protection they needed for the massive defensive effort they proved up to and could have turned the game into a fecking 50/50 mess like Chelsea did, instead of a football game we were outclassed in. Conversely, Rose could be relied on.
I prefer him over Winks right now.
 

Welby5

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The old order has indeed crumbled, Spurs have become an established top 4 club … .
So, a moderate Chelsea team which finished above you and wins another trophy is one that has crumbled? Spurs are top four because Utd are the weakest they've been for 30 years, Arsenal keeping Wenger too long and Chelsea being wildly inconsistent from one season to the next. It wont take much for them to get their act together enough to put Spurs back to a regular 6th place club.
 

Lash

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What does Winks really bring to the team ? The way pundits talk about him, it's as if I'm missing something so I'm asking Spurs fans. He seems like a generic FIFA player
He's painfully average for the way some people talk about him. Never got the hype at all.
 

hellohello

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I prefer him over Winks right now.
Me too, Sissoko is extremely frustrating in the final third, and his brain seemingly freezes whenever he is in a position to affect the final third. But except for that he is extremely solid. His ability to carry the ball from defense to attack is invaluable for us, and he is very reliable in defensive situations, and is a fantastic athlete.
 

InLevyITrust

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What does Winks really bring to the team ? The way pundits talk about him, it's as if I'm missing something so I'm asking Spurs fans. He seems like a generic FIFA player
He's positive and moves the ball quickly, sadly for that role you do need some strength, Winks lacks in that area. I like him as a squad player but as a starter? No.
 

GlastonSpur

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So, a moderate Chelsea team which finished above you and wins another trophy is one that has crumbled? Spurs are top four because Utd are the weakest they've been for 30 years, Arsenal keeping Wenger too long and Chelsea being wildly inconsistent from one season to the next. It wont take much for them to get their act together enough to put Spurs back to a regular 6th place club.
What has crumbled, as I said in my previous post, is the old order in the league consisting of what used to be (but are no longer) the perennial top 4 clubs. This is undeniable.

Chelsea, for example, have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last four seasons. United have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last six seasons. And Arsenal have finished outside the top 4 for last three seasons running.

Meanwhile Spurs have finished in the top 4 for the last four seasons running. You can provide your various excuses to explain away one season - or maybe even two seasons at a stretch - but credibility vanishes when it comes to four seasons in a row.

So, along with the rise of City, it's clear that the rise of Spurs has been the major factor in upsetting the top 4 apple-cart.
And the more recent rise of Liverpool simply makes things even worse for the likes of United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Nor is the old order likely to return anytime soon … not when Spurs are increasingly now able to add financial muscle to what they've previously been doing on a comparatively shoe-string transfer and wages budget.
 

Welby5

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What has crumbled, as I said in my previous post, is the old order in the league consisting of what used to be (but are no longer) the perennial top 4 clubs. This is undeniable.

Chelsea, for example, have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last four seasons. United have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last six seasons. And Arsenal have finished outside the top 4 for last three seasons running.

Meanwhile Spurs have finished in the top 4 for the last four seasons running. You can provide your various excuses to explain away one season - or maybe even two seasons at a stretch - but credibility vanishes when it comes to four seasons in a row.

So, along with the rise of City, it's clear that the rise of Spurs has been the major factor in upsetting the top 4 apple-cart.
And the more recent rise of Liverpool simply makes things even worse for the likes of United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Nor is the old order likely to return anytime soon … not when Spurs are increasingly now able to add financial muscle to what they've previously been doing on a comparatively shoe-string transfer and wages budget.
I maintain the "rise of Spurs" has been more down to the other teams being nowhere near the levels they once were. Arsenal, Chelsea and Utd wont be overtaking City or Liverpool anytime soon, but Spurs will be much easier to deal with even with their increased spending powers. If Lampard is given a couple of years to rebuild, i will be very, very confident Chelsea will get back to being a level above Spurs again. Credit to Poch and Spurs for doing well the past few years. But you still haven't won anything, so your success has been pretty good but nothing more than that.
 

caid

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What has crumbled, as I said in my previous post, is the old order in the league consisting of what used to be (but are no longer) the perennial top 4 clubs. This is undeniable.

Chelsea, for example, have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last four seasons. United have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last six seasons. And Arsenal have finished outside the top 4 for last three seasons running.

Meanwhile Spurs have finished in the top 4 for the last four seasons running. You can provide your various excuses to explain away one season - or maybe even two seasons at a stretch - but credibility vanishes when it comes to four seasons in a row.

So, along with the rise of City, it's clear that the rise of Spurs has been the major factor in upsetting the top 4 apple-cart.
And the more recent rise of Liverpool simply makes things even worse for the likes of United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Nor is the old order likely to return anytime soon … not when Spurs are increasingly now able to add financial muscle to what they've previously been doing on a comparatively shoe-string transfer and wages budget.
That was a thing for 3 or 4 seasons. There was an element of the media (and i suppose fans following it) stretching it to some unbreakable order but it felt pretty silly at the time and just plain wrong now obviously. Its kind of the same now. City are pretty secure, short of selling half their squad they're probably not going to go away any time soon. Liverpool though? You? How far would Chelsea sink if Abromovich decides hes bored and they can make do with what they have. Arsenal could sink to Evertons level fairly easily, they've made a few good decisions recently and i dont think they will but its not a huge stretch is it?
The current top 6 will become something else in 5 years time. Realistically the current top 6 is a top 1 so it doesn't even fit that much now.
 

Mihai

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What has crumbled, as I said in my previous post, is the old order in the league consisting of what used to be (but are no longer) the perennial top 4 clubs. This is undeniable.

Chelsea, for example, have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last four seasons. United have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last six seasons. And Arsenal have finished outside the top 4 for last three seasons running.

Meanwhile Spurs have finished in the top 4 for the last four seasons running. You can provide your various excuses to explain away one season - or maybe even two seasons at a stretch - but credibility vanishes when it comes to four seasons in a row.

So, along with the rise of City, it's clear that the rise of Spurs has been the major factor in upsetting the top 4 apple-cart.
And the more recent rise of Liverpool simply makes things even worse for the likes of United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Nor is the old order likely to return anytime soon … not when Spurs are increasingly now able to add financial muscle to what they've previously been doing on a comparatively shoe-string transfer and wages budget.
While your reasoning is valid, it doesn't show the full picture imo.

I think in relation to Man United, it's more due to us being in the worst period in recent history than others catching up. We had an average of 86.66 points per season in the 6 years before SAF retired (69.33 in the seasons after his retirement). If we kept the same average, we would've finished above spurs almost every season (Spurs had an average of 72.83 points in the 6 seasons after SAF retired).

Now, I agree that both Spurs and Liverpool improved a lot in recent seasons, but one must also consider the monumental fall from grace that Untied experienced in the same period.
 
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What has crumbled, as I said in my previous post, is the old order in the league consisting of what used to be (but are no longer) the perennial top 4 clubs. This is undeniable.

Chelsea, for example, have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last four seasons. United have finished in the top 4 only twice in the last six seasons. And Arsenal have finished outside the top 4 for last three seasons running.

Meanwhile Spurs have finished in the top 4 for the last four seasons running. You can provide your various excuses to explain away one season - or maybe even two seasons at a stretch - but credibility vanishes when it comes to four seasons in a row.

So, along with the rise of City, it's clear that the rise of Spurs has been the major factor in upsetting the top 4 apple-cart.
And the more recent rise of Liverpool simply makes things even worse for the likes of United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Nor is the old order likely to return anytime soon … not when Spurs are increasingly now able to add financial muscle to what they've previously been doing on a comparatively shoe-string transfer and wages budget.
What are your top 4 predictions this season? x
 

GlastonSpur

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What are your top 4 predictions this season? x
City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea - in that order - is what I predicted just before the season started.

But I may (?) have been too hasty in picking Chelsea. United or Arsenal have a good chance of finishing above them.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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What does Winks really bring to the team ? The way pundits talk about him, it's as if I'm missing something so I'm asking Spurs fans. He seems like a generic FIFA player

No idea. He's a tidy enough player and I'm happy to have him in the squad but I constantly feel like when he's in midfield we're too conservative in our play.

He needs to add more to his game to consistently start for us. Going forward I'd love to see us go with an Ndombele/Lo Celso/Eriksen midfield, especially in games where we're dominant in possession. 3 players who want to get it forward at all times.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea - in that order - is what I predicted just before the season started.

But I may (?) have been too hasty in picking Chelsea. United or Arsenal have a good chance of finishing above them.
Arsenal will grab fourth I think. For United to do it I think Martial/Rashford both have to have really strong seasons, otherwise I don't see them scoring enough goals.
 
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City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea - in that order - is what I predicted just before the season started.

But I may (?) have been too hasty in picking Chelsea. United or Arsenal have a good chance of finishing above them.
I think most people would have picked the same tbh. I don't think Chelsea will get there as they don't have enough goals in them plus their defence looks really shaky too. I think Spurs will finish top 4 comfortably and either utd or arsenal should challenge for the last spot.
 

Welby5

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How far would Chelsea sink if Abromovich decides hes bored and they can make do with what they have. /QUOTE]

You clearly have no idea how Chelsea have been run for the last half a dozen year or so, because that's exactly what we've been doing and its what Roman always said Chelsea would be doing.
And in that time we've won two titles and numerous cups. Furthermore, we're the only club in Premiership history to win the league and have a net profit on transfers for that season.
And let's not forget, Chelsea are coping ,despite having 20,000 fewer fans on match days than all the other big clubs.
If we get the 60, OOO stadium, we'll financially wipe the floor with Spurs

And even when Roman does move on he will make sure the club is passed onto very safe, very wealthy hands.
 

thegregster

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You clearly have no idea how Chelsea have been run for the last half a dozen year or so, because that's exactly what we've been doing and its what Roman always said Chelsea would be doing.
And in that time we've won two titles and numerous cups. Furthermore, we're the only club in Premiership history to win the league and have a net profit on transfers for that season.
And let's not forget, Chelsea are coping ,despite having 20,000 fewer fans on match days than all the other big clubs.
If we get the 60, OOO stadium, we'll financially wipe the floor with Spurs

And even when Roman does move on he will make sure the club is passed onto very safe, very wealthy hands.
It simply isn't true that not other club has done this.

Eg United in 95-96 for starters.
 

Sweech

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Been seeing this type of take a lot recently.

The media storm over that VAR decision is also odd given that there wasn’t any backlash to the one given in a Champions League final.
 

GlastonSpur

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@welby "If we get the 60, OOO stadium, we'll financially wipe the floor with Spurs."

That's a very big IF because the whole project has stalled. In the meantime Spur's income is on course to soon match or exceed that of Chelsea.
 

charlenefan

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Been seeing this type of take a lot recently.

The media storm over that VAR decision is also odd given that there wasn’t any backlash to the one given in a Champions League final.
Which statement are you taking offence to? That you just got over the line against Villa or that your were rinsed by City?
 

Sweech

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Which statement are you taking offence to? That you just got over the line against Villa or that your were rinsed by City?
Either? I personally think we got rinsed by City but I can’t see how you can logically think one but then go the other way for the other. It just screams of bias and not really thinking at all.