2019/20 Rivals - Spurs

balaks

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The season Pochettino took over Spurs they finished 6th with 69 Points with Vertonghen, Lloris, Eriksen and Kane in the squad (ahead of Manchester United).

In Pochettinos 5 season in charge of Spurs - they got 64, 70, 86, 77 and 71 Points - now that is an average of close to 73 Points. During this time they have won .. nothing. And they still have huge gaps in their squad (especially in defense). The fact is - if you look at the Points and table position, they have improved - but not much apart from that one season in 16/17

To all you wanting Pochettino - why ? What is it he has done that makes you think he is the right person ? He has had 5 seasons and they are not gonna be anywhere near Liverpool or City this season either. Not even Close!
Perhaps it is because he has kept us in the top 3/4 throughout that time with about the same resources as Burnley (in terms of net spend) in comparison with the other clubs? That and the fact he got to a champions league final only a few months ago. Not every club can be a Liverpool or a City and have those kind of resources. Ignore the bigger picture if you want but your argument is simplistic in the extreme.
 

romufc

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To all you wanting Pochettino - why ? What is it he has done that makes you think he is the right person ? He has had 5 seasons and they are not gonna be anywhere near Liverpool or City this season either. Not even Close!
Champions League Final
Worked with no major transfers whilst the rest around them spend millions
Plays attacking football
Players play for him
 

RedSky

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Fullbacks are their real weakness as they have zero end product coming from wide positions. Absolutely bizarre they didn't bring in some genuine fullbacks in the Summer. I don't mean Sessegnon either given he played the majority of the season last year and the year before as a forward. I suppose he was counting on using Foyth as a fullback and then he got injured in pre season. But from the little i've seen of him I don't think he's some attacking talent?

He's also denying Tottenham points by fecking around with players not signing their contracts. They messed around with Alderwiereld last season and now they're doing it with Eriksen and Vertonghen. All Poch is doing by throwing them on the bench is making their first eleven weaker. Strange move all things considered. Not that i'm complaining mind, it's helping them drop points which is all good.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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I knew it wouldn’t take long for you to change tune and get back to whining endlessly about how bad Spurs have been.

:rolleyes:

I've been saying we're out of form for ages. Doesn't change the fact I think we have a very good side, just one which is under performing.

I also thought/hoped that last season our bad form was caused by the CL run, but that isn't the case as it's continued in to this season.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Fullbacks are their real weakness as they have zero end product coming from wide positions. Absolutely bizarre they didn't bring in some genuine fullbacks in the Summer. I don't mean Sessegnon either given he played the majority of the season last year and the year before as a forward. I suppose he was counting on using Foyth as a fullback and then he got injured in pre season. But from the little i've seen of him I don't think he's some attacking talent?

He's also denying Tottenham points by fecking around with players not signing their contracts. They messed around with Alderwiereld last season and now they're doing it with Eriksen and Vertonghen. All Poch is doing by throwing them on the bench is making their first eleven weaker. Strange move all things considered. Not that i'm complaining mind, it's helping them drop points which is all good.
The fullback situation is genuinely mental. Selling Trippier and not signing somebody was one of the weirdest decisions made by a top 6 club in ages.

Bad form or not he was our first choice rb, and Aurier has been a huge flop. KWP is a kid and clearly not ready to come in and start and the Foyth plan is insane, he's not going to be nearly good enough in the attacking third.

Sessegnon makes sense, but not whilst Rose is the disaster of a player he currently is. We've needed a genuine replacement for him for 2 seasons now, not a kid who might press him in a season or so.
 

RedSky

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The fullback situation is genuinely mental. Selling Trippier and not signing somebody was one of the weirdest decisions made by a top 6 club in ages.

Bad form or not he was our first choice rb, and Aurier has been a huge flop. KWP is a kid and clearly not ready to come in and start and the Foyth plan is insane, he's not going to be nearly good enough in the attacking third.

Sessegnon makes sense, but not whilst Rose is the disaster of a player he currently is. We've needed a genuine replacement for him for 2 seasons now, not a kid who might press him in a season or so.
Aye, your fullback situation is basically our midfield situation. Both are huge weaknesses for a top 6 team fighting for top 4. Very strange scenario all things considered.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Aye, your fullback situation is basically our midfield situation. Both are huge weaknesses for a top 6 team fighting for top 4. Very strange scenario all things considered.
I'd honestly rather have not signed Lo Celso/Sessegnon and instead brought in two fullbacks for decent money who could come in and immediately be in a good position to start.

Our midfield was an issue but having added Ndombele/kept Eriksen it was serviceable. I expect almost nothing from our fullbacks all season, they're going to be a defensive liability and and add nothing going forward.
 

The Boogeyman

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The season Pochettino took over Spurs they finished 6th with 69 Points with Vertonghen, Lloris, Eriksen and Kane in the squad (ahead of Manchester United).

In Pochettinos 5 season in charge of Spurs - they got 64, 70, 86, 77 and 71 Points - now that is an average of close to 73 Points. During this time they have won .. nothing. And they still have huge gaps in their squad (especially in defense). The fact is - if you look at the Points and table position, they have improved - but not much apart from that one season in 16/17

To all you wanting Pochettino - why ? What is it he has done that makes you think he is the right person ? He has had 5 seasons and they are not gonna be anywhere near Liverpool or City this season either. Not even Close!
I don't think Pochettino is on the same level as Klopp or Pep, but he pretty much meets expectations every year, and there aren't a lot of managers who can say that.

If he was at a club with more resources, it's no stretch to think he'd be a step closer to winning trophies. I think most United fans would be happy to have a stretch that went something like 4th, 4th, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, which Poch is capable of achieving.
 

acnumber9

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:rolleyes:

I've been saying we're out of form for ages. Doesn't change the fact I think we have a very good side, just one which is under performing.

I also thought/hoped that last season our bad form was caused by the CL run, but that isn't the case as it's continued in to this season.
You also argued that it was an emotional reaction during one or two matches. Which was clearly bullshit because here you are again complaining about the same things. Spurs are a tired team lacking ideas. Two great goal scorers lift them above the likes of Utd and Chelsea and even then it is marginal.
 

roonster09

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I'd honestly rather have not signed Lo Celso/Sessegnon and instead brought in two fullbacks for decent money who could come in and immediately be in a good position to start.

Our midfield was an issue but having added Ndombele/kept Eriksen it was serviceable. I expect almost nothing from our fullbacks all season, they're going to be a defensive liability and and add nothing going forward.
Your midfield was still a problem isn't it? Also like you said, you can get away with decent midfield if you have very good fullbacks. I don't know what happened to Rose, he looks good in bits and pieces of the game but somehow ends up badly by making silly mistakes. I still think he can be very good player.
 

United58

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The fullback situation is genuinely mental. Selling Trippier and not signing somebody was one of the weirdest decisions made by a top 6 club in ages.
It mirrors us losing Herrera and Fellaini and Matic being completely finished, replacing none. I'd put it down to cost-cutting, due to the stadium for ye and the Glazers for us.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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You also argued that it was an emotional reaction during one or two matches. Which was clearly bullshit because here you are again complaining about the same things. Spurs are a tired team lacking ideas. Two great goal scorers lift them above the likes of Utd and Chelsea and even then it is marginal.
Fundamentally disagree. We comfortably have a better team than both and are under performing currently.

Last season I didn't want to draw any conclusions about where we were at because we still had a fantastic CL run, so yes I put it down to a few bad games. This season we've started off in the same vein, so it's becoming clearer that something is fundamentally wrong in terms of the way the team is being managed and motivated. The issues over contracts with Vertonghen/Eriksen are not helping at all.

There's a lot of issues going on at the club right now that go beyond the squad we have available, which yeah I still believe in and still think is easily the 3rd best in the league. When they put it together we're capable of doing something like reaching a CL final, but the same motivation isn't there for the league anymore. We obviously have weaknesses and the squad isn't perfect by any means, but the ability is all there imo.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Your midfield was still a problem isn't it? Also like you said, you can get away with decent midfield if you have very good fullbacks. I don't know what happened to Rose, he looks good in bits and pieces of the game but somehow ends up badly by making silly mistakes. I still think he can be very good player.
Given up on Rose now. Been ages since he was anywhere near his best. He looks decent but any end product in the final third is missing and he's constantly a worry at the back.
 

mav_9me

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Fullbacks are their real weakness as they have zero end product coming from wide positions. Absolutely bizarre they didn't bring in some genuine fullbacks in the Summer. I don't mean Sessegnon either given he played the majority of the season last year and the year before as a forward. I suppose he was counting on using Foyth as a fullback and then he got injured in pre season. But from the little i've seen of him I don't think he's some attacking talent?

He's also denying Tottenham points by fecking around with players not signing their contracts. They messed around with Alderwiereld last season and now they're doing it with Eriksen and Vertonghen. All Poch is doing by throwing them on the bench is making their first eleven weaker. Strange move all things considered. Not that i'm complaining mind, it's helping them drop points which is all good.
The fullback situation is genuinely mental. Selling Trippier and not signing somebody was one of the weirdest decisions made by a top 6 club in ages.

Bad form or not he was our first choice rb, and Aurier has been a huge flop. KWP is a kid and clearly not ready to come in and start and the Foyth plan is insane, he's not going to be nearly good enough in the attacking third.

Sessegnon makes sense, but not whilst Rose is the disaster of a player he currently is. We've needed a genuine replacement for him for 2 seasons now, not a kid who might press him in a season or so.
That's what I came to post. I always thought a major part of the way Pochetino's spurs play is narrow midfield with width from fullbacks. They didnt use to assist like Liverpool's but more than say city's fullbacks. So I always saw them as crucial to their attack.

Now their fullbacks are as useless as ours. In general play and in assists. And he can't even play 3-5-2 cuz the fullbacks are not good enough in attack for that. And I don't see a solution either unless sessegnon and Aurier work as wing backs in 3-5-2.

Having said all that they are still 3rd best team and that's where they will end up at.
 

caid

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I'd say Rose will still have his good days. He's a good stopgap at least. Not ideal by any means but City for instance would manage just fine with him.

Fundamentally disagree. We comfortably have a better team than both and are under performing currently.
I think people are underestimating Chelsea pretty badly. I dont rate Jorginho much defensively but he looks comfortably one of the best midfielders in the league with the ball. Playing Kante further up the field limited his use last season but i presume he'll be next to Jorginho this season and as a midfield 2, that has to be one of the strongest in the league. City are the only obvious exception (as with all things). Mount has impressed me, Pulisic looked very, very fast if nothing else. Hudson Odoi I've never seen play but I presume he's a decent talent. Their defence all look capable, probably not top tier in most cases but capable. Decent keeper.
Its really not a bad team, I wouldn't treat them not competing as a foregone conclusion.
I expect Spurs to finish 3rd but I think Chelsea are probably set up a bit better in the medium term. Throw a world class striker in their squad and their first 11 looks pretty good for a few years.
 

acnumber9

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Fundamentally disagree. We comfortably have a better team than both and are under performing currently.

Last season I didn't want to draw any conclusions about where we were at because we still had a fantastic CL run, so yes I put it down to a few bad games. This season we've started off in the same vein, so it's becoming clearer that something is fundamentally wrong in terms of the way the team is being managed and motivated. The issues over contracts with Vertonghen/Eriksen are not helping at all.

There's a lot of issues going on at the club right now that go beyond the squad we have available, which yeah I still believe in and still think is easily the 3rd best in the league. When they put it together we're capable of doing something like reaching a CL final, but the same motivation isn't there for the league anymore. We obviously have weaknesses and the squad isn't perfect by any means, but the ability is all there imo.
How long can a bad run last before it becomes the norm? The writing was on the wall with the performances from the very start of last season at least. Even with superior goal scorers and Utd being so bad they had to sack their manager the difference in points was minimal.

If Spurs have the third best squad it’s minimal at best. Put even one of Son, Kane or Eriksen in United’s squad and any difference is instantly gone. That doesn’t suggest a huge chasm to me.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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How long can a bad run last before it becomes the norm? The writing was on the wall with the performances from the very start of last season at least. Even with superior goal scorers and Utd being so bad they had to sack their manager the difference in points was minimal.

If Spurs have the third best squad it’s minimal at best. Put even one of Son, Kane or Eriksen in United’s squad and any difference is instantly gone. That doesn’t suggest a huge chasm to me.
Disagree. We had some bad performances at the start of last season but we did get going midway through or so and built up a very, very comfortable gap on the rest of the top six and were even mentioned in the title race. Then we hit a point where suddenly the team just completely stopped performing and it hasn't got going since other than in Europe, and for me that points towards a motivation issue at the club. Particularly at the start of this season we just don't look up for games or show the kind of intensity you need to compete.

Maybe, but then you're taking one of our best players (our best, in Kane) and giving it straight to United so that's a pretty big move. I don't think there's some colossal gap but I do think we should be getting that third place with relative comfort, considering the squad is settled and the talent we have available. But potentially right now there is an issue behind the scenes which we aren't really fully aware of and can only speculate on.
 

acnumber9

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Disagree. We had some bad performances at the start of last season but we did get going midway through or so and built up a very, very comfortable gap on the rest of the top six and were even mentioned in the title race. Then we hit a point where suddenly the team just completely stopped performing and it hasn't got going since other than in Europe, and for me that points towards a motivation issue at the club. Particularly at the start of this season we just don't look up for games or show the kind of intensity you need to compete.

Maybe, but then you're taking one of our best players (our best, in Kane) and giving it straight to United so that's a pretty big move. I don't think there's some colossal gap but I do think we should be getting that third place with relative comfort, considering the squad is settled and the talent we have available. But potentially right now there is an issue behind the scenes which we aren't really fully aware of and can only speculate on.
Spurs won a lot of games they just weren’t very good in. Similar to how Utd had played the year before. A few games at Christmas where Spurs scores a few were the exception by far. Getting to the final glosses over the fact Spurs were extremely fortunate to even get out of their group in the Champions League.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Spurs won a lot of games they just weren’t very good in. Similar to how Utd had played the year before. A few games at Christmas where Spurs scores a few were the exception by far. Getting to the final glosses over the fact Spurs were extremely fortunate to even get out of their group in the Champions League.
We weren't that fortunate to get out of our CL group. Our loss away to Inter was stupidly unfortunate, they did nothing for a majority of the game then scored 2 quick goals out of nothing. We had a goal wrongly chalked off in the first game against PSV as well, overall our play throughout the groups deserved 2nd place imo, we were better than Inter.

We had a few games where we were fortunate to get the points, but also quite a few where the opposite was true. We also had people saying we were lucky to win just because we were scoring late goals, but in a lot of those games we were clearly the better side.
 

Jimmy_Bond

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I remember Spurs being bang in the title race and I was right behind them and then they lost and home to Wolves and never seemed to recover league-wise.
 

caid

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Spurs haven't been bang in a title race in decades. Unless getting vaguely close to Leicester for a few games counts.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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I remember Spurs being bang in the title race and I was right behind them and then they lost and home to Wolves and never seemed to recover league-wise.
Yeah, from that moment on our league form collapsed. It was like yet another potential title race going down the pan was just too much for the squad mentally and they took the foot off the gas thinking third was pretty much wrapped up, whilst in Europe they were still motivated to keep going. I can't remember a game we played well in after that match, we obviously won some games but they were close and scrappy, before Wolves we were playing great football and smashing teams left right and centre.

I thought maybe with a new season coming that league form would come back, but it's pretty much the same tired, disinterested performances from a team who don't look like they really buy in to the philosophy any longer.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Spurs haven't been bang in a title race in decades. Unless getting vaguely close to Leicester for a few games counts.
Agree we haven't been properly in one (as in, really neck and neck) but I think we've had a few too many 'ooo .. maybe?' seasons and that's taken a bit of a toll mentally. Add that to the disappointment of losing a CL final and you have to wonder whether some of the players just don't believe in Pochettino anymore.
 

caid

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Agree we haven't been properly in one (as in, really neck and neck) but I think we've had a few too many 'ooo .. maybe?' seasons and that's taken a bit of a toll mentally. Add that to the disappointment of losing a CL final and you have to wonder whether some of the players just don't believe in Pochettino anymore.
I'm not sure its that strange. Even with a perfect season its hard to see anyone actually beating City. They probably see finishing ahead of Chelsea and others as being pretty much wrapped up again. The squad needed freshening up and when people settle your form will probably pick up again. Maybe some good cup runs will get them going?
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Does KWP really qualify as a kid? He's older than Wan Bissaka.
22 is still pretty young, and he's only just started really breaking through to the seniors so whilst he's older than Wan Bissaka, AWB has a lot more experience of senior football than he does. KWP still has a hell of a lot to learn.