2021 German Federal Election - who will replace Merkel - 6 different government coalitions possible

Abizzz

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:lol:
Imagine having these big priorities in 2021: Not introducing a speed limit that would be beneficial to environment, CO2 emission, local residents and accident risks, something which every other European country is doing already - and not taxing the rich.
That's important to me too. I'm 33 and every city near me was easier to access when I did my drivers license than it is now. The train takes longer on every route bar to Paris than it did when I entered adulthood, and the restricted parts have increased a lot (especially on the A5, which I drive frequently). I have no interest in spending an additional 2 days on the Autobahn every year of my life just so people who don't utilize it can force their choice on others.

I would accept the danger aspect but then looking at the statistics of deaths per km on limited networks doesn't support that. I drive an E208 and this year have been able to charge purely solar 75% since buying it (this will go down now that winter is about to come, I got it this summer). My only problem right now is I need a faster electric car ;).
 

Rektsanwalt

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:lol:
Imagine having these big priorities in 2021: Not introducing a speed limit that would be beneficial to environment, CO2 emission, local residents and accident risks, something which every other European country is doing already - and not taxing the rich.

Overall I'm happy that they went ahead quickly and that Jamaica never really turned out to be an option. Even if I'm sceptical about the coalition, not having corrupt scum like Seehofer, Scheuer, Klöckner etc. in important ministeries sabotaging everything will make a big difference.
From what I've read and heard so far there are a couple of positive things (voting age to 16, weed legalization, children rights, cutting of subsidies for shitty sectors), a couple of things where we'll have to see how that pans out (solar+wind energy promotion, unemployement reform) and a couple of meh things especially the lack of tax increase which questions how certain things are to be financed.
Well, if you had checked some facts regarding wealth tax and speed limit, you would have known that both measures are highly inefficient and especially speed limit on the autobahn factually irrelevant regarding almost every aspect you mentioned bar co2 emission, which is such a small amount, that it's almost irrelevant as well (especially considering that the speed limit would hit electric cars as well!!). While I - obviously - never said those two aspects are of priority to me, they are still important. If you ask why, here's my answer. If you don't bother, it's fine.
Both measures are more symbols than efficient tools to make the world a better place. The green party and to a certain extent the SPD as well are known for good theoretical ideologies, but highly impractical approaches to implement actual key aspects in daily life. I, personally, don't like inefficient symbol politics, especially when it comes at the cost of a substantial loss of individual freedom. Now if you think about it, our complete outlook on the world and what our basic rights are and what freedom in a modern society means has been changed by covid. People seem to accept ideological symbol politics dictating and violating their freedom without even thinking. It's not surprising that many former members of the Bundesverfassungsgericht and other experts who are currently not part of our judicial system have deemed many/most of the corona measures as unconstitutional. Thing is, I get why our legal system has not acted in a mechanical way in that regard, in order to maintain control over the situation and because the government needs to have some kind of margin when it comes to unpredictable global crisis situations. But we should be careful about abolishing more and more freedom without conscientously checking the necessity.
Regarding wealth tax, this is a much more debatable matter and might be valid in the future. My concern is though that in this highly globalized world cash cows would start pulling out of germany soon enough if something substantionally happened in that regard (I personally know some people who have already bought real estate overseas because of that). The concrete design of such a tax is the key aspect, though, and I didn't see either the SPD nor the Grüne as competent enough to implement such a costly tool at this moment. Covering up your own wealth has never been so easy as it is at this moment, so in order to actually collect some money, the government needs to dig quite deep in many cases. Which costs absurd amount of money and - having worked for the government myself - I can absolutely assure you that the apparatus is already extremely inefficient. You would never believe it unless you have worked there. So the call for "more state" is something I'm not very fond of. Many of the authorities - especially on the communal level - are basically state financed economic stimulus programs to get their inhabitants to work. It's hard to believe this is happening on a daily basis on a gigantic scale when it comes to the government's work.

Edit:

the funny thing is, the SPD and the Grüne have understood that those two measures are negligible, which kind of shows already that they themselves deemed it not as important as they made it out before the election (just symbols...)
 
Last edited:

Kasper

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That's important to me too. I'm 33 and every city near me was easier to access when I did my drivers license than it is now. The train takes longer on every route bar to Paris than it did when I entered adulthood, and the restricted parts have increased a lot (especially on the A5, which I drive frequently). I have no interest in spending an additional 2 days on the Autobahn every year of my life just so people who don't utilize it can force their choice on others.

I would accept the danger aspect but then looking at the statistics of deaths per km on limited networks doesn't support that. I drive an E208 and this year have been able to charge purely solar 75% since buying it (this will go down now that winter is about to come, I got it this summer). My only problem right now is I need a faster electric car ;).
Speed limits would actually favor electric cars because it makes the traffic flow way more efficient. And regarding the bolded, no offense but people without a car are forced to watch a significant part of the state's budget going into maintenance and expension of these roads you use with the majority of these users contributing a higher CO2 footprint than your average citizen so I think it's pretty fair that these non-utilizer have a say on the matter :)

Well, if you had checked some facts regarding wealth tax and speed limit, you would have known that both measures are highly inefficient and especially speed limit on the autobahn factually irrelevant regarding almost every aspect you mentioned bar co2 emission, which is such a small amount, that it's almost irrelevant as well (especially considering that the speed limit would hit electric cars as well!!). While I - obviously - never said those two aspects are of priority to me, they are still important. If you ask why, here's my answer. If you don't bother, it's fine.
Both measures are more symbols than efficient tools to make the world a better place. The green party and to a certain extent the SPD as well are known for good theoretical ideologies, but highly impractical approaches to implement actual key aspects in daily life. I, personally, don't like inefficient symbol politics, especially when it comes at the cost of a substantial loss of individual freedom. Now if you think about it, our complete outlook on the world and what our basic rights are and what freedom in a modern society means has been changed by covid. People seem to accept ideological symbol politics dictating and violating their freedom without even thinking. It's not surprising that many former members of the Bundesverfassungsgericht and other experts who are currently not part of our judicial system have deemed many/most of the corona measures as unconstitutional. Thing is, I get why our legal system has not acted in a mechanical way in that regard, in order to maintain control over the situation and because the government needs to have some kind of margin when it comes to unpredictable global crisis situations. But we should be careful about abolishing more and more freedom without conscientously checking the necessity.
Regarding wealth tax, this is a much more debatable matter and might be valid in the future. My concern is though that in this highly globalized world cash cows would start pulling out of germany soon enough if something substantionally happened in that regard (I personally know some people who have already bought real estate overseas because of that). The concrete design of such a tax is the key aspect, though, and I didn't see either the SPD nor the Grüne as competent enough to implement such a costly tool at this moment. Covering up your own wealth has never been so easy as it is at this moment, so in order to actually collect some money, the government needs to dig quite deep in many cases. Which costs absurd amount of money and - having worked for the government myself - I can absolutely assure you that the apparatus is already extremely inefficient. You would never believe it unless you have worked there. So the call for "more state" is something I'm not very fond of. Many of the authorities - especially on the communal level - are basically state financed economic stimulus programs to get their inhabitants to work. It's hard to believe this is happening on a daily basis on a gigantic scale when it comes to the government's work.

Edit:

the funny thing is, the SPD and the Grüne have understood that those two measures are negligible, which kind of shows already that they themselves deemed it not as important as they made it out before the election (just symbols...)
The arguments against wealth tax about being "inefficient" are just smokescreens a la "too complicated to implement" and "the rich will just leave the country" (btw. a simple first step would just be to increase the income tax for the upper brackets, property and wealth could come later). Especially the latter is always a welcoming deflection that isn't actually supported by any studies or data. If the fear of people leaving is the baseline for tax policy one might just put the tax rate at 1% because, everything above Luxembourg will just see people leave eh. The high income tax bracket has come down continously since the 50s and its ludicrous low, also compared to other countries (and no, I'm not talking Venezuela, just look at the Scandinavian countries or even Austria) while social inequality gap has become bigger and bigger, but hey, we can't do anything against that because it's inefficient.
As for the speed limit debate. There's a whole wikipedia article listing all the studies on the matter, and there's literally nothing in favor apart from "People want to be quicker". No matter how much you like to talk down the impact (yes of course coal power plants have a worse impact on the environment than cars going 250km/h) it is significant and it can't be overlooked. Same for safety and noise.
As for the whole rambling about "freedom" - are we the only country in Europe where the citizens are really free because we don't have a speed limit? The term has become a completely empty significant that people just throw as an argument against any positions they dislike, or more specifically, the ultimate conservative slogan against change. "Should we introduce measures that slow the spread of a disease that affects us all, overloards hospitals and has people dying?" - "Wow, stop there, you're taking away my freedom." "Should we regulate the meat industry so that we don't keep and slaughter animals in terrible conditions?" "Hell no, you're taking away my freedom to buy steaks for 1€" "Should we limit the speed of this motorway so that the village nearby could enjoy a lower noise level?" "If they don't like it, they should move away. They're not taking away my freedom of enjyoing my car." - The way we're going we might as well go full Yanks and give everyone guns because - freedom.
The fact is, the way our status quo works, people don't realize how much their priviliges (passive or active) are already impacting other peoples freedom (and be it that of future generations). But when confronted with that the freedom card is pulled right away.


Nice graph:

Most interesting on that is the FDP position which I would've thought to be way more urban. I assume this might be down to many rich suburbs that often have a high FDP percentage are not part of the inncer city constituencies but are in constituencies that cover quite a lot of area and therefore have a low density and qualify as "rural". Because there's no way I'd consider e.g. Munich suburbs as rural but looking at the constituency map they probably qualify as that.
 

stefan92

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Most interesting on that is the FDP position which I would've thought to be way more urban. I assume this might be down to many rich suburbs that often have a high FDP percentage are not part of the inncer city constituencies but are in constituencies that cover quite a lot of area and therefore have a low density and qualify as "rural". Because there's no way I'd consider e.g. Munich suburbs as rural but looking at the constituency map they probably qualify as that.
I don't really think so. I myself live in a rural area and FDP result here was like everywhere else. For FDP and SPD this rural/urban question simply seems to be no factor.
 

Abizzz

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Speed limits would actually favor electric cars because it makes the traffic flow way more efficient. And regarding the bolded, no offense but people without a car are forced to watch a significant part of the state's budget going into maintenance and expension of these roads you use with the majority of these users contributing a higher CO2 footprint than your average citizen so I think it's pretty fair that these non-utilizer have a say on the matter :)
I've driven in dozens of countries with general speed limits and I've yet to see one where traffic flow is "way more efficient". Some are similar, loads are worse. Those that have been better (Scandinavia) are so because of a lower population density, and once one gets near the cities it's no different. Lowering the speed limit would have no effect on the cost of the roads per se and people who don't use them with their own cars still use them through every good they consume. Obviously everyone should have the same say in a democracy but maybe if a speed limit was so overwhelmingly popular as it's proponents keep claiming the party that keeps on banging on about it would have more than 14.8%!?
 

Kasper

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I've driven in dozens of countries with general speed limits and I've yet to see one where traffic flow is "way more efficient". Some are similar, loads are worse. Those that have been better (Scandinavia) are so because of a lower population density, and once one gets near the cities it's no different. Lowering the speed limit would have no effect on the cost of the roads per se and people who don't use them with their own cars still use them through every good they consume. Obviously everyone should have the same say in a democracy but maybe if a speed limit was so overwhelmingly popular as it's proponents keep claiming the party that keeps on banging on about it would have more than 14.8%!?

It ain't that unpopular.
And people obviously don't vote based on one issue.

"Way more efficient" was probably going overboard. Anecdotal evidence however is also not really something to go by, I won't link all the sources but wikipedia has a good paragraph regarding benefits on capacity, flow and speed.