2021 Summer Olympics (Tokyo)

[RoadTrip]

Cheers for that mate. Of course no one can look inside her head so I indeed don't wanna make assumptions. I think I do (or did) feel that it takes away from greatness because it's both physical+mental for me, but like you say I don't wanna feel that way if it means it's plain and simple ignoring or misunderstanding mental health problems. Just trying to learn something here

I completely agree in some respects by the way - being successful in sport is as much about mental “readiness” as physical. Going back to our NFL roots, Brady wins yes because he has a great team and coach, but without doubt also because when it’s game time, he just elevates his performance because of his mental desire to win and ability to perform under pressure. It’s a fixture of all greats who elevate themselves beyond just winning, but especially in those who ultimately out-perform their natural ability and technical talent. Someone like Ronaldo and Ferguson immediately also come to mind. Obviously hugely talented at football / coaching but what took them apart is their mental ability to maximise their abilities and those around them.

However, I think we are talking about a different “mental” ability here. Biles has shown she has these qualities because of her performances in Worlds and Olympics before. But separated from this type of mental ability is a separate question altogether of mental health. It’s not a question of “does she have the mental strength to rise above the pressure and perform her best at the most important times” - which is what she’s shown she has done and the thing that separates the people listed above from other great players in their sports. But a more fundamental question of (for example) does she suffer anxiety? Does she suffer depression? Does she have any other mental conditions? All reasonably possible given the historic abuse in the field In the US with the coach. These things are far more rooted, sometimes buried, in ones physchy which can be a constant battle to overcome and cause serious mental strain. I personally think it’s key to separate those two things (one being an ability to mentally cope purely from the pressures of what the sport and occasion brings, the other being a rooted underlying mental health issue which impacts all aspects of life beyond just competing in the sport) - but that’s just my view!

 

[Adam-Utd]

30 olympic medals? Wtf?

@Adam-Utd would’ve meant 30 World Championship medals (she doesn't but has a still remarkable 25). So 31 global medals if you combine World & Olympics.

Even the legendary Michael Phelps didn’t get 30 Olympic medals

Yeah apologies meant medals in total - but still a vast achievement. The point is nobody can say she hasn't performed on the highest level - so something else has clearly got to her.

She's made it clear that she is often in a lot of pain, I suspect she's just dreading the sport rather than enjoying it now.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...njuries-says-it-feels-weird-if-im-not-in-pain

 

[RoadTrip]

Also the fine for that Norway woman’s beach handball team for wearing shorts is beyond ludicrous, by the way.

 

[RobinLFC]

I completely agree in some respects by the way - being successful in sport is as much about mental “readiness” as physical. Going back to our NFL roots, Brady wins yes because he has a great team and coach, but without doubt also because when it’s game time, he just elevates his performance because of his mental desire to win and ability to perform under pressure. It’s a fixture of all greats who elevate themselves beyond just winning, but especially in those who ultimately out-perform their natural ability and technical talent. Someone like Ronaldo and Ferguson immediately also come to mind. Obviously hugely talented at football / coaching but what took them apart is their mental ability to maximise their abilities and those around them.

However, I think we are talking about a different “mental” ability here. Biles has shown she has these qualities because of her performances in Worlds and Olympics before. But separated from this type of mental ability is a separate question altogether of mental health. It’s not a question of “does she have the mental strength to rise above the pressure and perform her best at the most important times” - which is what she’s shown she has done and the thing that separates the people listed above from other great players in their sports. But a more fundamental question of (for example) does she suffer anxiety? Does she suffer depression? Does she have any other mental conditions? All reasonably possible given the historic abuse in the field In the US with the coach. These things are far more rooted, sometimes buried, in ones physchy which can be a constant battle to overcome and cause serious mental strain. I personally think it’s key to separate those two things (one being an ability to mentally cope purely from the pressures of what the sport and occasion brings, the other being a rooted underlying mental health issue which impacts all aspects of life beyond just competing in the sport) - but that’s just my view!

Yeah bolded parts are probably where the line should be drawn, that's a great reasoning and fully agree with that.

 

[Samid]

Also the fine for that Norway woman’s beach handball team for wearing shorts is beyond ludicrous, by the way.

Welcome to 2021!

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[croadyman]

Didn't realise that Alice from the Women's GB Gymnastics team is daughter of ex Charlton player Mark

 

[Desert Eagle]

Welcome to 2021!

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They should just switch uniforms for a photo. It'd go viral and they would generate loads of good press. The fines won't be that big anyways.

 

[SilentWitness]

Didn't realise that Alice from the Women's GB Gymnastics team is daughter of ex Charlton player Mark

There is a diver for GB who is the daughter of that Fred bloke from First Dates.

 

[croadyman]

There is a diver for GB who is the daughter of that Fred bloke from First Dates.

Not forgetting the Boss's daughter in the US Dressage team

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

I think it's one of those sports where you need to be on the front foot. You try and back off to create space and you're just giving them more room to come and hit you.

I've watched at least 4 matches now so I'm an expert.

Haha it was only 3 seconds though, I’d have walked around a bit, job done!

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

It's mad isnt it? that's 3 GB athletes that have lost a medal now in the closing 10 seconds.

I get that you can't just run away but surely be more defensive, aim to counter strike etc?

She could have backed away for 3 seconds surely, just dodged a bit you know.

 

[Carolina Red]

Just (prematurely) wondering if this will be held against her if she's one day compared against the likes of Phelps and Bolt for example

She’s already the most successful female gymnast of all time. If anybody thinks she has anything else to prove, they aren’t worth listening to anyway.

 

[Alex99]

Haha it was only 3 seconds though, I’d have walked around a bit, job done!

I have thought the same, but given they spend most of the fight right on top of each other, I've just assumed there's a big disadvantage to allowing your opponent to attack you.

Bonkers that so many brits have lost it late on though.

 

[Carolina Red]

Also the fine for that Norway woman’s beach handball team for wearing shorts is beyond ludicrous, by the way.

Oh yes. Embarrassing that that’s a thing in 2021

 

[Carolina Red]

It's mad isnt it? that's 3 GB athletes that have lost a medal now in the closing 10 seconds.

I get that you can't just run away but surely be more defensive, aim to counter strike etc?

She could have backed away for 3 seconds surely, just dodged a bit you know.

I have thought the same, but given they spend most of the fight right on top of each other, I've just assumed there's a big disadvantage to allowing your opponent to attack you.

Bonkers that so many brits have lost it late on though.

What was the score of the match?

Stalling to run out the clock is prohibited and results in points being awarded to your opponent

 

[United Hobbit]

I'm not surprised Simone Biles is struggling with her mental health as wasn't she started from a very young age? Same with Tom Daley I know he went through it psychologically being scared of going off the platform, again one who started so young

Maybe she's been doing it for so many years at such an intensity she's lost her passion for it. I was surprised watching her in the qualifiers, she didn't seem to produce her usual faultless display. Obviously still very good but like you usually see with China, you expect them to be perfect as they and she have such high standards, so it's a shock when they aren't quite perfect

Isnt she doing each piece of apparatus in the final too?

 

[Alex99]

What was the score of the match?

Stalling to run out the clock is prohibited and results in points being awarded to your opponent

Walkden lost 25-24 but was leading I think with literally 1 second on the clock when she was kicked in the head.

 

[Carolina Red]

Walkden lost 25-24 but was leading I think with literally 1 second on the clock when she was kicked in the head.

There you have it then. Stalling awards your opponent 1 point every time it is called on you.

 

[Carolina Red]

I'm not surprised Simone Biles is struggling with her mental health as wasn't she started from a very young age? Same with Tom Daley I know he went through it psychologically being scared of going off the platform, again one who started so young

Maybe she's been doing it for so many years at such an intensity she's lost her passion for it. I was surprised watching her in the qualifiers, she didn't seem to produce her usual faultless display. Obviously still very good but like you usually see with China, you expect them to be perfect as they and she have such high standards, so it's a shock when they aren't quite perfect

Isnt she doing each piece of apparatus in the final too?

Not to mention, she is one of the gymnasts who was sexually assaulted by Dr. Nasser.

And yes, she’s supposed to be, but I expect to see her withdraw.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

Ah

What was the score of the match?

Stalling to run out the clock is prohibited and results in points being awarded to your opponent

Ah fair enough, it was only a point or two I think.

 

[Alex99]

There you have it then. Stalling awards your opponent 1 point every time it is called on you.

I had to imagine there was something that stopped competitors just running away.

 

[United Hobbit]

Not to mention, she is one of the gymnasts who was sexually assaulted by Dr. Nasser.

And yes, she’s supposed to be, but I expect to see her withdraw.

I thought I'd seen somewhere she'd been sexually assaulted, wouldn't be surprised if that's not helping her mental health wonder if she's getting counselling/support

If it I'd her last games if she feels up to it, she should just do a couple of events in the final and try and finish on a medal.

That piece up thread where she said her best days are her days off sounds like she just doesn't want to do it anymore and she's lost the joy of it

The pressure on these sorts of events eg diving/ gymnastics looks so intense especially nations such as China who are expected to do well then compared to the skateboarding where lots were going splat but bouncing up smiling looking like they were enjoying themselves

 

[Adam-Utd]

There you have it then. Stalling awards your opponent 1 point every time it is called on you.

eh? there’s no way you’d get penalised for being defensive for 2-3 seconds. nobody is saying run away but at least step back and dodge the strikes rather than stand there and get pinned down like she did.

 

[Carolina Red]

I had to imagine there was something that stopped competitors just running away.

Yep. We also have similar rules in wrestling. For me, that’s the best part about scored combat sports. You have to move forward and take risks.

 

[Carolina Red]

eh? there’s no way you’d get penalised for being defensive for 2-3 seconds. nobody is saying run away but at least step back and dodge the strikes rather than stand there and get pinned down like she did.

Feel free to look up the rules for yourself.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Feel free to look up the rules for yourself.

I know the rules but what i’m saying is there’s a difference between trying to activately engage somebody and being more defensive.

No judge will penalise your for dodging an attack

 

[sullydnl]

Quite hilarious to see random internet idiots (not here but in general) criticising four-time olympic gold medalist Simone Biles' "weak" mentality. If literally the most decorated American gymnast of all time isn't feeling able to compete, you can probably assume it's for good reason. Because if she wasn't generally insanely strong mentally, she wouldn't be who she is.

Really the key point here is that she was honest enough to say why she pulled out. As opposed to doing what I'm sure countless other athletes have done over the years and blame a physical injury.

 

[croadyman]

What the hell was that in our supposed top rowing event and to get nothing is utterly diabolical

 

[Agent Red]

I got up early up to watch the men’s coxless 4 and we put in a really messy performance.

Not sure what’s gone on with the British rowing programme (I know one of the head coaches stepped down) but something has obviously gone massively wrong in the preparation this time round - there doesn’t seem to be any experience in any of the crews bar Helen Glover, where it’s arguably too tough an ask given her time out since Rio. Given rowing is normally a guaranteed gold mine for us it’s pretty shocking to see all of our crews so off the pace. Will need a big reset in time for Paris 2024.

 

[croadyman]

I got up early up to watch the men’s coxless 4 and we put in a really messy performance.

Not sure what’s gone on with the British rowing programme (I know one of the head coaches stepped down) but something has obviously gone massively wrong in the preparation this time round - there doesn’t seem to be any experience in any of the crews bar Helen Glover, where it’s arguably too tough an ask given her time out since Rio. Given rowing is normally a guaranteed gold mine for us it’s pretty shocking to see all of our crews so off the pace. Will need a big reset in time for Paris 2024.

Yeah you are thinking of Jurgen Grobler who was clearly the mastermind behind our success

 

[Agent Red]

Yeah you are thinking of Jurgen Grobler who was clearly the mastermind behind our success

Yeah, although how much can be totally down to one man? Especially given he justified his decision by saying we need time to build for Paris and he couldn’t commit to that, it feels worrying that things have so totally fallen apart so quickly. Surely after so many decades of dominance you’d think there would be enough experience in the stable still that you’re collecting a few silver/bronzes even if you haven’t yet got the experience built up to defend your titles or challenge for new ones.

They’ll need to turn things around quickly to improve by 2024 and they’ll now have to do it without the benefit of previous winners being there to keep things calm and with the challenge of mentally resetting after some pretty disappointing performances.

 

[croadyman]

Yeah, although how much can be totally down to one man? Especially given he justified his decision by saying we need time to build for Paris and he couldn’t commit to that, it feels worrying that things have so totally fallen apart so quickly. Surely after so many decades of dominance you’d think there would be enough experience in the stable still that you’re collecting a few silver/bronzes even if you haven’t yet got the experience built up to defend your titles or challenge for new ones.

They’ll need to turn things around quickly to improve by 2024 and they’ll now have to do it without the benefit of previous winners being there to keep things calm and with the challenge of mentally resetting after some pretty disappointing performances.

Yeah and special mention should go to the Men's Quadruple Sculls who restore a bit of pride with an unexpected silver, however like you say there is some serious soul searching needed before Paris that's for sure

 

[christy87]

Charlie’s niece got a medal

 

[Cooksen]

2 rowing golds, 1 swimming gold.

Pretty good morning by Australia

 

[croadyman]

2 rowing golds, 1 swimming gold.

Pretty good morning by Australia

Yeah GB need to respond

 

[giorno]

Ledecky out of the podium in the 200 free...wow. Titmus won as expected

Now Ledecky should at least win the 1500

 

[Carolina Red]

Quite hilarious to see random internet idiots (not here but in general) criticising four-time olympic gold medalist Simone Biles' "weak" mentality. If literally the most decorated American gymnast of all time isn't feeling able to compete, you can probably assume it's for good reason. Because if she wasn't generally insanely strong mentally, she wouldn't be who she is.

Really the key point here is that she was honest enough to say why she pulled out. As opposed to doing what I'm sure countless other athletes have done over the years and blame a physical injury.

I legit just had to deal with this on a Facebook post I made in support of Biles.

A dude I used to coach with said “she quit on her team”… “I could understand if it was a real injury”… and “she can’t be the GOAT if she quit”

I’m friends on FB with some of my administrators so I told him to shut the feck up without telling him to shut the feck up and deleted every stupid ass comment he made.

 

[Carolina Red]

Now Ledecky should at least win the 1500

And does. Nice

 

[Acheron]

Ledecky out of the podium in the 200 free...wow. Titmus won as expected

Now Ledecky should at least win the 1500

The schedule for Ledecky is brutal, she's swimming all the 200, 400, 800, 1500 the clasification rounds and the finals. She's also on the 4x200 freestyle relay so that in itself it's an amazing feat.

Props to Ariarne Titmus she's been on the rise since last year so it shouldn't be such a surprise she's been doing this good, in fact I was afraid Ledecky was going to do worse as she wasn't doing very hot before the olympics but she recovered a lot of ground in the last months. Think they're still going to face each other on the 800 and Ledecky has a better chance in that event as she's better on the longer events despite her swimming almost all the distances.

 

[Agent Red]

Yeah and special mention should go to the Men's Quadruple Sculls who restore a bit of pride with an unexpected silver, however like you say there is some serious soul searching needed before Paris that's for sure

Ah I went back to sleep (just got up again for the swimming) so that’s good news on the silver. Good to at least have one medal banked for them to build on. A total blank would have been tough psychologically.