3-4-3 formation

[Beachryan]

We have 0 players capable of filling the LWB role, so not sure it's supposed to work on a regular basis.

For all his energy, Shaw's actual final ball is awful. And that's it for left-footers really.

That formation works best when you use FBs to be the width, and I'm not convinced we have those types of FBs.

It's not the only position that enables a front 2, which I agree seems to work much better for us. And Martial thrives with someone near him too.

 

[NoPace]

We have 0 players capable of filling the LWB role, so not sure it's supposed to work on a regular basis.

For all his energy, Shaw's actual final ball is awful. And that's it for left-footers really.

That formation works best when you use FBs to be the width, and I'm not convinced we have those types of FBs.

It's not the only position that enables a front 2, which I agree seems to work much better for us. And Martial thrives with someone near him too.

Wolves do okay with Jonny on the left despite being right footed but he's good at linking up and aggressive going forward and I'm not sure we have that player. Pereira or Dalot maybe.

I could see the case for going 3 at the back because it gives Pogba more protection if we are going to use him in a midfield 2 and I'm fine with Tuanzebe and Lindelof playing every game as they're better than our weaker midfielders anyways, but yeah we'd need to buy/loan a LWB to challenge Shaw for January, and a #10 or a box to box CM (if we want to play 3-5-2 with Pogba and that CM either side of McTominay) but we need those players for a 4 at the back system too so don't think it's a huge problem.

 

[TrustInOle]

We have 0 players capable of filling the LWB role, so not sure it's supposed to work on a regular basis.

For all his energy, Shaw's actual final ball is awful. And that's it for left-footers really.

That formation works best when you use FBs to be the width, and I'm not convinced we have those types of FBs.

It's not the only position that enables a front 2, which I agree seems to work much better for us. And Martial thrives with someone near him too.

I would argue, although not very well, but Young plays his best games as Lwb with licence to go bombing forward, and is still one of the best crossers in the squad.

 

[bosnian_red]

No it's not a formation we should use unless forced into it because of injury. With wing backs like Robertson and Alexander Arnold who are quality on the ball, sure. But not our personnel. Our fullbacks arent creative enough on the ball, so we need to load our midfield and attack with creativity and on ball quality.

 

[red woppit]

This 352 formation is absolutely the way forward.

Lindelof-Maguire-Tuanzebe are a capable trio, AWB actually looks very comfortable on the right flank and I have little concern about Shaw as a wing-back.

Our midfield is dire, the best way forward is to give them support with numbers. Fred and Pereira looked a bit more comfortable with the former able to keep it simple easier and the latter just bustling around with extra bite into players which he couldn't do when isolated on the wing.

Plus the front 2 being closer together means Rashford isn't left alone. He can lay off James/Martial and vice versa.


But, this is Ole, and I wouldn't be surprised with a 4321 versus Norwich.

I was advocating a similar thing before Sundays game, but was told by a poster that it was 'the craziest pre match post yet'. I did put Shaw in at left back, but wouldn't have a problem with Brandon Williams, he is less experienced defensively, but brilliant going forward, and with three at the back he wouldn't be so exposed, similarly if Dalot was in for AWB at right back. I also thought Garner might get a run, for a similar reason, defensively stronger, but Garner can create things. It would have been interesting. Hope we don't revert to 4-2-3-1 for the Norwich match, 4-3-3 would be ok for me though, hopefully Shaw is back, personally would prefer Tuanzebe as CB, McTominay, Pereira and Fred, with Rashford, Martial and James. Lindelof, Garner, Gomes, Greenwood, Chong on the bench.

 

[Godfather]

We have no wingbacks that provide any threat from the flanks so no

 

[red woppit]

We have no wingbacks that provide any threat from the flanks so no

Not Dalot or Williams? Both seem better at attacking than defending at the moment, Shaw is good going forward, I don't know where this idea that he doesn't get past halfway comes from, AWB has still to develop that side of his game.

 

[friendlytramp]

Have been advocating this formation since the start of the season given the players we have available. We should stick with it. Still think James can play as a wing back too.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

We played 541 today, not sure how you saw 343. At some points we were 55.

We played 343 in first half. Switched to 532 in 2nd half. Switched to 541 when Williams came on.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Not a very good idea to play this formation week in week out. We don’t have a good strong wing back. Beside we played this formation because it suits us to play against Liverpool & I think will suit as well to play against City. The reason we played this formation was to strengthen our defense more since we are playing against a team that is good in attack. Ole wasn’t naive to play 4 at the back and went to 5 defenders.

 

[kouroux]

Not a very good idea to play this formation week in week out. We don’t have a good strong wing back. Beside we played this formation because it suits us to play against Liverpool & I think will suit as well to play against City. The reason we played this formation was to strengthen our defense more since we are playing against a team that is good in attack. Ole wasn’t naive to play 4 at the back and went to 5 defenders.

This. I liked this tactical flexibility from OGS.

 

[Roboc7]

You say that, but today I took AWB as an example of a "defender" who was way more offensive than I've ever seen him in a United shirt. And he gave a couple of good deliveries in the box too. Forget the traditional position and look at the system. It has the potential to get the best out of the team, bringing Pereira centrally, allowing Shaw and AWB license to overlap the wings and allowing potential for Rashford to interlink with a partner upfront, rather than try it all on his own.

Might give them license to overlap but neither are particularly good going forward. Weakest part of Shaw and AWB’s game is their attacking play so putting them in a position where they have to attack more and have more attacking responsibility makes no sense.

The system fails if the wingbacks aren’t an attacking threat has nothing to do with traditional position.

 

[MrBrightside1989]

Given what we have available, 3 at the back is my preference. We definitely should be making use of the defenders we have giving us a strong base knowing the weakness in midfield that is there.

3-4-3
DDG
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire
Dalot Mctominay Pogba Shaw
James Martial Rashford

3-4-1-2
DDG
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire
Dalot Mctominay Fred Shaw
Pogba
Martial Rashford/James​

I would question Pogba's ability to lead the press high up the pitch, when pereira played yesterday he did that well, Pogba as a 10 would change that dynamic but should obviously give us more quality.

 

[Judas]

Not Dalot or Williams? Both seem better at attacking than defending at the moment, Shaw is good going forward, I don't know where this idea that he doesn't get past halfway comes from, AWB has still to develop that side of his game.

He really isn't. He gets in the right positions, but his delivery is very poor, and overall use of the ball in that position is often a total waste. He can defend, but attacking wise he needs a lot of work.

But really Shaw should be upgraded on anyway, but we've got so many other issues this won't happen.

 

[AneRu]

I loved it, if we hadn't given up the initiative after scoring we probably would have won. But I would call it a 352. Allowing both strikers to go wide or narrow means a lot of open spaces for balls over the top, and we were better able to deal with the opponent in central midfield. Not sure how we fit James with Rashford and Martial in this formation, though.

I think one will have to miss out because Pereira up there is crucial to making it work, Pogba in front of three CBs wouldn't be as risky and he would have time to pick out passes so its Fred out and Pogba in.

Up front that's where it's difficult, who do you leave out between Martial, Rashford and James? I think Rashford and Martial play well together and are likely to create for each other with James coming on against tired legs to run rugged.

 

[devilish]

Changing formations is what a team with limited talent like United can do to look unpredictable. The time when we expect others to adapt to us because we are so good that we can't be bothered about opposition is long gone. Ole needs players with different skill sets that allows him to quickly change his game. That's had been a winning formula since the frigging treble team let alone now when we lack so much quality.

 

[AneRu]

We have 0 players capable of filling the LWB role, so not sure it's supposed to work on a regular basis.

For all his energy, Shaw's actual final ball is awful. And that's it for left-footers really.

That formation works best when you use FBs to be the width, and I'm not convinced we have those types of FBs.

It's not the only position that enables a front 2, which I agree seems to work much better for us. And Martial thrives with someone near him too.

I think Young and William's could do well in rotation, Shaw is no no for that role even though he has the tools but his final ball is lacking.

 

[GBBQ]

I think one will have to miss out because Pereira up there is crucial to making it work, Pogba in front of three CBs wouldn't be as risky and he would have time to pick out passes so its Fred out and Pogba in.

Up front that's where it's difficult, who do you leave out between Martial, Rashford and James? I think Rashford and Martial play well together and are likely to create for each other with James coming on against tired legs to run rugged.

Agreed, I know we have over-relied on James for creativity this season but it might not be the worst thing to use him in rotation or as an impact sub. Matip and VVD were cleaning him out any chance they got and others will do the same until he bulks up a bit more.

 

[settembrini]

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-assesses-change-of-formation-v-liverpool

Solskjaer says that:

1. It allows more width.
Really depends tbh, with our complete lack of right wingers than yes pushing our right back further forward will give us more width. My biggest criticism of Solskjaer this season has been the fact that his 'solution' to our right wing problem was to play Pereira out of position so I have to be happy with this.

2. It's a risk when you play 3 at the back against a good attacking 3 like Liverpools. But he did it to improve our own attacking.
Makes sense. Our problems this season have clearly been offensive and not defensive.

3. It can develop into something.
Sounds like we will be trying it again and it's not just a one off. Fine by me. The 4-2-3-1 looked doomed with Pereira on the right and Lingard/Mata as #10s.

 

[Godfather]

Not Dalot or Williams? Both seem better at attacking than defending at the moment, Shaw is good going forward, I don't know where this idea that he doesn't get past halfway comes from, AWB has still to develop that side of his game.

I don't think Dalot is good enough. And Williams? Bit early no?

 

[AneRu]

Agreed, I know we have over-relied on James for creativity this season but it might not be the worst thing to use him in rotation or as an impact sub. Matip and VVD were cleaning him out any chance they got and others will do the same until he bulks up a bit more.

Plus when we do not have a Lukaku type of player that attacks crosses is he really that effective? Martial, Rashford and Pogba had a creative trident that saved Jose and helped get Ole the job so I think play a front two of Martial and Rashford, push up Pogba to play alongside Pereira in his sweet spot (LM, Pogba) with McTominay holding. For it to work you need CBs that push up and actually know what they are doing with the ball so hopefully Axel is back soon.

I saw AWB put in a decent cross so I think with work on the training ground then he will do well and Young plays well as a LWB. We don't have the wide forwards, the No.10, the lone striker and the DM to play a 4-2-3-1 and we lack the midfielders and widemen to play effectively in a 4-3-3. LVG tried it and failed because we didn't have the ball playing CBs and midfield creativity that Pogba gives plus the strikers, whilst a couple of levels above our current roster, were not mobile and dynamic enough. Martial and Rashford, on the other hand, aren't complete enough to play as lone striker but as a pair they are alright.

 

[Havak]

It was just the right way to approach that game, it isn't a long term solution. I wasn't surprised to see it, particularly with injuries to Pogba and Matic and Martial unable to start.

 

[AneRu]

Agreed, I know we have over-relied on James for creativity this season but it might not be the worst thing to use him in rotation or as an impact sub. Matip and VVD were cleaning him out any chance they got and others will do the same until he bulks up a bit more.

Plus when we do not have a Lukaku type of player that attacks crosses is he really that effective? Martial, Rashford and Pogba had a creative trident that saved Jose and helped get Ole the job so I think play a front two of Martial and Rashford, push up Pogba to play alongside Pereira in his sweet spot (LM, Pogba) with McTominay holding. For it to work you need CBs that push up and actually know what they are doing with the ball so hopefully Axel is back soon.

I saw AWB put in a decent cross so I think with work on the training ground then he will do well and Young plays well as a LWB. We don't have the wide forwards, the No.10, the lone striker and the DM to play a 4-2-3-1 and we lack the midfielders and widemen to play effectively in a 4-3-3. LVG tried it and failed because we didn't have the ball playing CBs and midfield creativity that Pogba gives plus the strikers, whilst a couple of levels above our current roster, were not mobile and dynamic enough. Martial and Rashford, on the other hand, aren't complete enough to play as lone striker but as a pair they are alright.

 

[red woppit]

I don't think Dalot is good enough. And Williams? Bit early no?

Dalot may not be good enough, but I think he is suited better to a wing back, than a pure full back. Williams is someone who can come into certain games where we need attacking options wide, and he has license to do that. He still needs work defensively, but he looks exciting when going forward, but it is still early days for him, but the odd game I think he would do well.

 

[King7Eric]

If we want to play with Wing Backs long term then AWB is not the answer. Dalot is a much better RWB than him. Also, on the opposite flank Shaw will need to show a lot more consistent attacking flair for this formation to succeed long term.

It is true though that the Pogba/McTominay midfield duo would work much better in a 3-5-2 than in a 4-2-3-1 and also a Martial/Rashford combo upfront is a better use of their talents than sticking one out wide and leaving the other isolated up front.

 

[VP89]

Might give them license to overlap but neither are particularly good going forward. Weakest part of Shaw and AWB’s game is their attacking play so putting them in a position where they have to attack more and have more attacking responsibility makes no sense.

The system fails if the wingbacks aren’t an attacking threat has nothing to do with traditional position.

You haven't really tested either enough to suggest that. It's been one game, where I actually saw AWB as a better threat. Also shaws weakest point is defensively. Offensively he has a lot of potential, but no room in the current system to showcase anything.

The system wouldn't fail with them deployed as wing backs imo. It actually worked extremely well for around 65 minutes against the best side in the world, so it's definately worth a run.

 

[Bestietom]

Given what we have available, 3 at the back is my preference. We definitely should be making use of the defenders we have giving us a strong base knowing the weakness in midfield that is there.

3-4-3
DDG
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire
Dalot Mctominay Pogba Shaw
James Martial Rashford

3-4-1-2
DDG
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire
Dalot Mctominay Fred Shaw
Pogba
Martial Rashford/James​

Yes, I would agree. we need to try these formations. Tighten up in midfield and give us more when attacking. This should be the way to go until we get reinforcements in January, Hopefully.

 

[JPRouve]

I feel that we do it with all formations, the same enthusiasm and the same criticism.

 

[Raees]

Suits Rashford a lot more than as a lone centre forward.

 

[OldTrevil]

Saw a lot of positives in today's formation, imo it got the best out of some players who were not playing good of late. I've been watching this season's Antonio Conte's Inter and I can see our current squad improving a lot if some of those tactics were in place. A complementary front two in Lautaro and Lukaku, a pair of wing backs that are not better than ours, a midfield three which places one or two midfielders in scoring positions as in Sensi, and 3 CBs, a position we actually have got a lot in numbers.

De Gea
Lindelof - Maguire - Tuanzebe
AWB --------------Fred-------------- Shaw
McT ---------- Pogba
Rashford - Martial
​

A 3-5-2 where Pogba have more freedom to go further up the pitch and Step in scoring/creating positions, as that's what he can do the best. Rashford and Martial are indoubtedly our best attacking players and they can swicht and roam in more wide areas creating space for Pogba or another attacking midfielder in the likes of Pereira and Lingard (at least until we can upgrade on them). Greenwood and James could come in for Rhaford / Martial as subs or when injuries hit.

Seems legit, innit?

343 or 352 would be a good structure with our current players to make the best team. Against the "lesser" sides, I would use 3 attackers as below. Keep in mind also that Shaw would have to vastly improve his offensive game to at least his pre leg-break peak.

DDG
AWB-Maguire-Tuanzebe
Dalot------Fred--Pogba------Shaw
James-Martial-Rashford​

 

[harms]

It was a formation suited for Liverpool's 4-3-3 that allowed us to press personally. I don't think that it's the way forward. Also, when Klopp changed his 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1, we've lost control. So it's not really a set up for a season, as it doesn't really deal with our issues in positional attack; we need a proactive scheme, not a reactive one (in the long run, it was a great decision to set up like that against Liverpool).

 

[flappyjay]

If it means no spot in the team to shoehorn Mata and lingard into it then good. We just have to find a way to be potent in attack whilst using it

 

[Buster15]

I have to agree, I think we set it up specifically for this game. Tactically, I think Ole got it right and it's unfortunate that a few individual errors stopped us at the end from getting the win.

I wouldn't be adverse to seeing more 3-4-3/3-5-2 formations this season, depending on the opposition and depending on who we have available. It's actually quite heartening in way to know that Ole has it in him to set up teams in a way to nullify certain threats. It at least shows that he has some tactical nous about him.

Yes. The primary tactic was to negate the Liverpool wingbacks and that worked well. AWB and Young did their job.
But you have to be flexible and when Klopp changed to 4 in midfield that was when Ole poor tactic thinking showed up, again.

 

[charlenefan]

I'd say the only positive in the 352 is getting Lindelof, Tuanzebe and Maguire all into the starting XI. Neither AWB or Shaw are good attacking wing backs and Pogba as a 10 leading the press is never going to work in a month of Sundays

 

[EdinburghDevil]

Given what we have available, 3 at the back is my preference. We definitely should be making use of the defenders we have giving us a strong base knowing the weakness in midfield that is there.

3-4-3
DDG
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire
Dalot Mctominay Pogba Shaw
James Martial Rashford

3-4-1-2
DDG
AWB Tuanzebe Maguire
Dalot Mctominay Fred Shaw
Pogba
Martial Rashford/James​

When I was watching yesterday, I was thinking this team going forward would be good to see. Get Pogba further forward where he can influence the game more.

I think it gets the best out of the squad that is there currently. Dalot looks better suited as a wing back and AWB looks like he is more than solid enough to play right of a 3 at the back.

 

[Roboc7]

You haven't really tested either enough to suggest that. It's been one game, where I actually saw AWB as a better threat. Also shaws weakest point is defensively. Offensively he has a lot of potential, but no room in the current system to showcase anything.

The system wouldn't fail with them deployed as wing backs imo. It actually worked extremely well for around 65 minutes against the best side in the world, so it's definately worth a run.

Neither of our first choice full backs are known for their attacking play it’s just the reality, one good cross from AWB doesn’t change that. Neither of them are suited to being wingbacks, especially against any team that defends deeper which is what majority of teams will do against us.

 

[11101]

I think it worked so well against Liverpool because they weren't expecting it, whilst they set up exactly how we expected. After half time and Klopp made adjustments we weren't so good. I don't know how well it would work against other teams, we left a lot of gaps outside the wide CBs.

I would take anything over the dreadful 4231.

 

[Lee565]

-------awb-Maguire-axel
Lingard-mctominay-periera-fred
------rashford-pogba-martial

Pogba in a false 9/number 10 position.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I think it worked so well against Liverpool because they weren't expecting it, whilst they set up exactly how we expected. After half time and Klopp made adjustments we weren't so good. I don't know how well it would work against other teams, we left a lot of gaps outside the wide CBs.

I would take anything over the dreadful 4231.

I think even during the winning run, the attack functioned much better with a 4-3-1-2 as there were 3 players who were in the attacking third, all capable of quickly triggering transitions, making sure the striker was never left isolated as has happened with Rashford recently.

 

[11101]

I think even during the winning run, the attack functioned much better with a 4-3-1-2 as there were 3 players who were in the attacking third, all capable of quickly triggering transitions, making sure the striker was never left isolated as has happened with Rashford recently.

The end of the winning run coincided to within a game or two with the move to 4231.

We've always been terrible with it but managers persisted because we always needed 2 sitting midfielders to cover for Smalling, Jones & Co. Now we have a semi decent defence we should be able to move away from it.