4 Midfielders: Bruno, Pogba, Matic/Fred & McT - Can we make it work?

[Red4Life_#7]

I've seen posts mentioning who should be our 3rd Midfielder etc. Why can't we play 4 mids in a game sometimes?

Can you guys suggest/discuss how we can get the most out of our Mids. This was a problem position for us even a year ago, essentially we have signed 2 players with Bruno and McT gaining more experience.

Don't forget to include Matic too, he still has a few more seasons left in him.

The four mids could be played as a compact diamond to really flood the midfield areas and dominate against more difficult opposition with our fullbacks providing the width (only 1 attacking at a time and the opposite fullback staying back to form a back 3 to prevent counter-attacks).

Can you guys make any suggestions as we have a lot of talent in our midfield ranks, there can be some games which we play a 4-2-2-2 diamond etc to mix things up from our preferred 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 respectively.

 

[VorZakone]

I like it.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It could certainly work as pogba / Fernandes naturally drift wide and give crosses / through balls anyway. It would only really work against teams setup for a draw but would be interesting to see how we fared with it.

I don’t see how it could be any worse in terms of goals than with James on the right instead of pogba basically

 

[V.O.]

Not for me, Clive.

I don't think McTominay or Fred are positionally disciplined or aware enough for either of them to be the holding mid either in a 3 or a diamond. I think there's a reason we looked better when Matic came on against Spurs. McTominay might grow into that role one day, though.

I think you'd need fullbacks that are a lot better going forward than ours to pull it off as well.

 

[Samid]

No. These full backs don't provide anywhere near the quality and width a diamond requires. Drawing fancy lines on a virtual tactic board doesn't change that fact.

 

[Irrational.]

We'd need natural width from the fullbacks, and with Shaw hit and miss, and AWB in the final third as uncomfortable as a duck at a goose convention I can't see it happening.

 

[berbatrick]

It needs a Carrick at the base to function as a 3-man midfield. Positional discipline and defensive ability and able to feed the ball forwards quickly, Pogba as the box-to-box midfielder with world-class dribbling and creative passing, and Bruno as the dedicated playmaker.

The alternative is the diamond you've shown, with though I'd swap Fred with McTominay in there. And maybe replace the base player with Matic. But there's too much to do for Shaw and AWB.

 

[Rood]

It's not totally crazy and I'd like to see us trying it at some point but I can't see Ole going for it TBH

 

[Bastian]

We don't have full backs capable of making that a balanced side. We struggle to stretch teams as it is.

 

[Skills]

We shouldn't be shoehorning McTominay into the team at Mason's expense.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It's a waste playing both Fred and Scott when you could play one player with both their qualities, and add another attacker.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I worry about how narrow that will become, I think we'd need better attacking fullbacks to pull it off. If we're expecting Martial and Rashford to split to give us width and Bruno to move into an advanced central role we're talking essentially about Bruno as a false 9, not what we're after at all in my view.

I'm more up for giving Greenwood a go on the right of a three-pronged attack. His two-footedness and fine technical ability make him our best bet as our widest right-sided attacker, plus I want to see whether his extra bit of muscle will allow him to hang physically with opposition fullbacks.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

It would only exacerbate the problems we have with teams sitting deep.

We’d have no threat out wide and would end up rummaging our way through and even more congested middle.

One of the least thought out suggestions I’ve seen on here recently.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

No. These full backs don't provide anywhere near the quality and width a diamond requires. Drawing fancy lines on a virtual tactic board doesn't change that fact.

This

and

It's a waste playing both Fred and Scott when you could play one player with both their qualities, and add another attacker.

This

 

[bosnian_red]

Probably not worth it. The benefit of playing Pogba and Bruno in front of a DM is you don't need anything else there, it's perfectly balanced. Get more bodies up in attack.

 

[Rozay]

Nah. We’re not even talking about a group of world class midfielders who all have to be fitted in somehow. Just show some balls and drop one.

4 midfielders is overkill, and we become too congested in the centre.

 

[Majima]

A classic Brazilian 'box' or 'magic rectangle' system would work well with us.



City used to play it with Pellegrini with Silva & Nasri (it's his key system).

We can have Fred/McT & Matic DM, Pogba & Bruno CAMs, Martial & Rashford in the ST pairing.

No RW because it doesn't exist for us.

With this system, all our key players are playing in their natural roles, most importantly Bruno & Pogba. It gives defensive structure to the team, Matic is protected by Fred/McT, whilst Matic being there helps us to build up properly, and Fred/McT can focus on harassing. Pogba & Bruno freed up to create. It's perfect for us imo

 

[passing-wind]

No. These full backs don't provide anywhere near the quality and width a diamond requires. Drawing fancy lines on a virtual tactic board doesn't change that fact.

Good good point. We need wingers in this side.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

No point in a diamond with our full-backs.

If we had Trent/Robertson, then yeah a diamond is suitable.

 

[Dr. McBeasty]

A classic Brazilian 'box' or 'magic rectangle' system would work well with us.



City used to play it with Pellegrini with Silva & Nasri (it's his key system).

We can have Fred/McT & Matic DM, Pogba & Bruno CAMs, Martial & Rashford in the ST pairing.

No RW because it doesn't exist for us.

With this system, all our key players are playing in their natural roles, most importantly Bruno & Pogba. It gives defensive structure to the team, Matic is protected by Fred/McT, whilst Matic being there helps us to build up properly, and Fred/McT can focus on harassing. Pogba & Bruno freed up to create. It's perfect for us imo

I like this option, think its best to have a choice between fred/Scott as your “legs,” with matic a more natural back 4 screen. Like many have mentioned, the lack of width is a bit concerning, but I actually think Shaw is good enough in this situation (health permitting, of course), and regards to AWB, I would hope he would receive help in the form of a short option from Bruno/Fred/Tony, as that could help negate his weak final ball issues (he’s got the legs to get it up and down the flank just fine and provide the wide option at least).

it’s not like our strikers really excel on crosses into the box, so focusing our attack more through the middle might suit everybody.

 

[Tarrou]

I hate it to be honest

We don't have the full-backs for it, and it's just a shite formation anyway

Having strength in depth in midfield is great, why turn that into a negative by shoe-horning everyone in

 

[TheRedHearted]

Can’t play them all because if one gets injured who slots in? And then if one gets injured and we switch to a 3 midfield- we have no real subs for the next game. So, although a cool idea and one I’ve thought about I wouldn’t recommend it. Could be a tactical switch if we are getting out manned in midfield, drop a (right) winger for a midfielder for sure

 

[ManUnitedCanuck]

Would work much better if our fullbacks were better attackers.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

It might, try it first.

Theoretically it won't..
because of our two best FBs being too defensive.. but then this system may give them plenty of spaces as Pogba and Bruno pull-twist defenders here and there around with their creative movements. More spaces meant easier for Shaw and AWB to provide better width, wing play and send in better crosses.

But then since when theories always right? never.

Instead of Diamond, a Square midfield 4 may be better. Pog and Brun focus on attacking, with Fred and McT mopping up opposing attacks but occasionally joining in. Would also be a good system to play Matic in with Pog and Brun without fear of defensive exposure.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

A classic Brazilian 'box' or 'magic rectangle' system would work well with us.



City used to play it with Pellegrini with Silva & Nasri (it's his key system).

We can have Fred/McT & Matic DM, Pogba & Bruno CAMs, Martial & Rashford in the ST pairing.

No RW because it doesn't exist for us.

With this system, all our key players are playing in their natural roles, most importantly Bruno & Pogba. It gives defensive structure to the team, Matic is protected by Fred/McT, whilst Matic being there helps us to build up properly, and Fred/McT can focus on harassing. Pogba & Bruno freed up to create. It's perfect for us imo

Interesting idea isn't it. Love to see Ole try this at least once "properly".

 

[Andycoleno9]

You forgot Matic who is essential in midfield with Bruno and Pogba

 

[Jibbs]

We need Ndidi to complete the midfield. VdB or Grealish if Pogba leaves.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

There's nothing wrong with having quality on the bench.

 

[EwanI Ted]

I find it telling that four man midfields like this are pretty rare, whether in a diamond or a square. On paper they look good since they get a lot of talent in an important part of the pitch all at once, but in reality they tend not to work well and I struggle to think of a team that has picked one consistently.

You get situations like us vs Everton, where we started out in a diamond. We completely boss midfield due to the extra man or two, but struggle to carve out chances. When our attacking midfielder gets the ball, he often ends up with three midfielders behind him, which means the opposition outnumber our attackers 4 to 2. It certainly doesn't help that our full backs are better at defending than attacking. You need to overload areas of the pitch to succeed in those areas, usually, and overloading midfield means you can't also overload the opposition defence.

There are tactical reasons why a 4 man midfield can be useful. If you're playing away in a game where, frankly, you'd be happy with a point then its not a bad tactic, it can nullify the opposition. But as a plan A, I don't think it has much mileage.

 

[The Boy]

I'm not sure why you would want to play them all at once. Surely the reason for having them all is to provide depth and an ability to change things up for different/or during games. Also last night showed how Ole wants to balance your team and it worked well, this would mean a complete formation change and would run the risk of throwing away all the good work you've done in 2020

 

[kouroux]

The caf is weirdly obsessed with Fred, he's alright but defo not starter material anymore. Playing 4 midfielders like in the OP is pure lunacy

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

This obsession with McTominay and Fred starting needs to stop. They are good squad players, but nothing more.

Matic is miles better than both and fits Pogba and Fernandes better. I know he's not a fashionable "baller" or good on FIFA, which seems to be how the kids judge players these days, but he's a very good defensive midfielder and needs to play every important game.

The caf is weirdly obsessed with Fred, he's alright but defo not starter material anymore. Playing 4 midfielders like in the OP is pure lunacy

The caf loves players who run around a lot and "work 'ard" hence the gassing up of Fred and McTominay and the disregarding of Matic.

 

[TheNewEra]

Honestly? until the end of the season? yes.

For a title challenge? no.

Klopp plays a 4-2-3-1 and Guardiola plays a 4-3-3

There needs to be a designated CDM in the team thats world-class and a world-class winger for a start.

The squad needs options for the big games, where honestly I expect having a top CDM for example would be the starter each game, but when required McT would come in and do a shift, or be brought on in rotations (he's good but still learning his trade).

Up top right now with Rashford and Martial is fine, but again there needs to be a top class winger, in the big games going between a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 is just a personnel change of a CDM.

Bruno, Pogba are adaptable in most formations.

Fred doesn't offer us what we need, McT still has to grow he's a good player but he's not a title winning level yet.

Someone like Fred is good for say FA Cup games, or in the CL in the qualification rounds, but for a starter in big big games? honestly it's a no from me.

Shaw needs to pick up his game as a full back honestly but apart from a CDM, a RW and LB I don't really see many faults anymore with a team (at last!)

 

[JPRouve]

Why would you do that when Matic has been better than the two players you are trying to shoehorn, the system that we used yesterday fits all the starters and it provides excellent balance? It's not as if McTominay and Fred were world class players, that you absolutely want to have on the field.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Why would you do that when Matic has been better than the two players that you are trying to shoehorn and the system that we used yesterday fits all the starters and provides excellent balance? It's not as if McTominay and Fred were world class players, that you absolutely want to have on the field.

Because Fred and McTominay run around a lot and Matic doesn't. That's how the caf judges players. People rate Dan James on here for crying out loud.

It's as clear as day that the midfield 3 we saw last night is by far our best combination.

 

[RashyForPM]

In response to the OP, yes we can make it work, but only for one-off games as something like this is not sustainable and will never allow to us to fulfill our potential and have success.

Ole’s recent run of good form has stemmed from him coaching us to play with pace and the high press, as a modern big team wanting to win titles should. A diamond will just make us so easy to play around, just like the time we had Di Maria and co, used a diamond and lost a few games, which made LvG realise that a diamond does not work. If I remember correctly, we then switched to a 4-3-3 and battered Spurs, Liverpool and City consecutively. I seriously cannot remember any modern team who has been extremely and consistently successful without wingers. Heck, even Pep’s Barca had them: Henry, Villa, Pedro etc.

As for Fred and McTominay, I genuinely love their attitude, passion and improving footballing ability but this is Football, and they will just have to make do with a back-up role to Matic, Pogba and Bruno and be ready to step in if one of them gets injured.

 

[Red4Life_#7]

I'm the post creator and I agree with the better attacking fullbacks point. I still think the energy in the middle of the park would be great, I would still like to see it in a friendly.

 

[SAFMUTD]

In order to that to work we would need a back 5 with the wingbacks being extremely offensive to provide width, with the proposed line up we would hardly produce anything, neither AWB nor Shaw attack well enough for it to work.

 

[Volumiza]

I don't think McTominay or Fred are positionally disciplined or aware enough for either of them to be the holding mid either in a 3 or a diamond.

I disagree. I think McT and Fred are the perfect foils for PP and Bruno. Both are, or could be, the water carriers for Paul and Bruno. If they were tasked with a role, I think both could follow orders to provide cover for Pogba and Bruno.

 

[ChaddyP]

Why do they all have to start? Rather play another forward and have a balanced side with quality on the bench ready to change the game if needed