70s Retro Football Fantasy Championship - DRAFT THREAD

[Snow]

Sure, but everyone makes it sound like the absence of a winger makes a good fullback redundant, which is nonsense of course.

If I am Forlán or Luis Enrique attacking the space and see a choice of Cannavaro or Kelly, and Carvalho or Capdevila, other things equal, I know which way I will go (somewhere in between depending on where my own fullback is).

If I am Nesta and I have Zanetti next to me I am confident he can deal with someone heading that way, if I have Kelly I may end up in two minds regarding what to do.

Look at Cahill and Smalling last night, communication and trust between defenders is a huge part of defending effectively. Will Cling have that with such a disparate backline? I doubt it.

Of course it has an impact.

I didn't see the game yesterday so I can't comment. Who wasn't supposed to trust who?

Why should there be trust issues? Nesta has Abate next to him at Milan. I don't see him make any more special precautions than when he had someone who was better. And Abate attacks a lot.

It's not about defenders being redundant. It's about what you have in midfield as well as the role you give to your full back.

You have Zanetti but you don't have a right winger. If you then play Cling you've got Overmars to deal with. So far you haven't played many teams with wingers. So. What is Zanetti's role in this. Is he free to roam forwards? Kelly's role is clear. He's there to defend. Cling's front three are all players who are not afraid of taking their man on.

 

[antohan]

Who is that guy?

Córdoba?

Ronaldo at his peak weight

 

[antohan]

I didn't see the game yesterday so I can't comment. Who wasn't supposed to trust who?

After that first goal I don't think any of the England defenders felt particularly confident about each other, they were all over the shop.

Look it up online, three of them tracking an off the ball run while none closed down on Robben. Schoolboy stuff.

Why should there be trust issues? Nesta has Abate next to him at Milan. I don't see him make any more special precautions than when he had someone who was better. And Abate attacks a lot.

How long has Abate been playing next to Nesta? Sure he will be familiar with playing with him, his style and the implications for Nesta's own decision-making.

It's not about defenders being redundant. It's about what you have in midfield as well as the role you give to your full back.

People say it's OK if he is rubbish as no winger = no harm/no one will notice. Also say it's OK if he doesn't do much going forward either. Then tell me, what the heck is he there for? It's a facetious remark, although there is some underlying truth in there.

You have Zanetti but you don't have a right winger. If you then play Cling you've got Overmars to deal with. So far you haven't played many teams with wingers. So. What is Zanetti's role in this. Is he free to roam forwards? Kelly's role is clear. He's there to defend. Cling's front three are all players who are not afraid of taking their man on.

I think it is pretty obvious Cling's wingers will require my fullbacks to be more conservative. It's not rocket science, that's one of the main advantages of having good wingers, not just what they may do but limiting the attacking contribution of opposing fullbacks.

That is why I had given you the edge on the wings against Cling. For all the derisory remarks about Neville and Kuffour, I could see them handling Overmars and McManaman more easily than Cling's vs. Figo and Giggs.

 

[Cling Bak]

Córdoba?

Ronaldo at his peak weight

 

[antohan]

From the matchthread, any thoughts?

Rivaldo and Ferdinand are very tempting.

Two personal constraints there, I would rather not bench my two Uruguayan captains

Ferdinand and Nesta would be insane, and I would be fine with Montero as a LB as Candela's attacking opportunities will be limited.

Rivaldo and Zidane My problem there is how to fit Rivaldo, Forlán, Zidane and Scholes in the same team. One would have to go and it would have to be either Forlán or Scholes, or both.

The fundamental problem with it all is that I probably can't afford to face Vieira and Mendieta with Simeone and Luis Enrique. It would be fine in my eyes but it would lose votes like there's no tomorrow.

I would also like Luis Enrique on the right (Rivaldo-Zidane-Luis Enrique) which would mean a choice of Simeone, Seedorf and Scholes in the midfield two. Not worried at all about any of them shutting out Riquelme, mind.

It really is a matter of whether people see that Vieira and Mendieta are too busy with Zidane, Rivaldo and Luis Enrique to have any time to protect Riquelme from my two.

Cling Bak also has some good options in his locker to change tactics, I would need to look into that but this would be awesome

Will be away most of tomorrow at a wedding but should be able to post lineup on Sunday.

 

[Snow]

After that first goal I don't think any of the England defenders felt particularly confident about each other, they were all over the shop.

Look it up online, three of them tracking an off the ball run while none closed down on Robben. Schoolboy stuff.



How long has Abate been playing next to Nesta? Sure he will be familiar with playing with him, his style and the implications for Nesta's own decision-making.



People say it's OK if he is rubbish as no winger = no harm/no one will notice. Also say it's OK if he doesn't do much going forward either. Then tell me, what the heck is he there for? It's a facetious remark, although there is some underlying truth in there.



I think it is pretty obvious Cling's wingers will require my fullbacks to be more conservative. It's not rocket science, that's one of the main advantages of having good wingers, not just what they may do but limiting the attacking contribution of opposing fullbacks.

That is why I had given you the edge on the wings against Cling. For all the derisory remarks about Neville and Kuffour, I could see them handling Overmars and McManaman more easily than Cling's vs. Figo and Giggs.

It's an odd example picking Smalling and Cahill. Smalling is 22 and it was his 3rd cap. He's not even played a full season as a 1st choice defender. For Gary Cahill it's his 8th cap. He's recently changed teams as well. Comparing that to two players at the top of their game. Being a full back that's not required to do much attacking duties is one of the easiest tactical roles on the pitch. Only goalkeeper is easier. You have to stay in line with your other defenders. That's about it.
Ask any full back what's the most difficult player to play against. It's the one's that hug the line or press you at all times. Pressing you gives you little time on the ball and full backs don't have many passing options. If you have a winger against you hugging the line it makes more a bigger gap between you and the center back and you don't have much focus on keeping in line with your defense. I talk from experience now both as having to play as a winger and a full back as well as watching games and listening to what full backs don't like. It's pretty clear. Kelly would much rather have Forlán there than Walcott.

Now you've got Zanetti dealing with Henry. Henry, he hugs the line. He stays out left until he gets the ball and then uses his skill one on one.

I definitely don't think it's ok for that full back to be rubbish. Kelly isn't rubbish. Neither is Neville. It was just something an annoyed grunt claimed. Just because they aren't Zanetti or Thuram doesn't make them rubbish. But having a one minded full back who has minimal tasks to perform is easier to compensate for than any other position on the pitch. Just how many players have been used at right back the last 3 seasons for United.

The greatest full backs make your attack more comfortable. That's their added bonus. Very few of them are very good at both.

 

[Cling Bak]

From the matchthread, any thoughts?

Rivaldo and Ferdinand are very tempting.

Two personal constraints there, I would rather not bench my two Uruguayan captains

Ferdinand and Nesta would be insane, and I would be fine with Montero as a LB as Candela's attacking opportunities will be limited.

Rivaldo and Zidane My problem there is how to fit Rivaldo, Forlán, Zidane and Scholes in the same team. One would have to go and it would have to be either Forlán or Scholes, or both.

The fundamental problem with it all is that I probably can't afford to face Vieira and Mendieta with Simeone and Luis Enrique. It would be fine in my eyes but it would lose votes like there's no tomorrow.

I would also like Luis Enrique on the right (Rivaldo-Zidane-Luis Enrique) which would mean a choice of Simeone, Seedorf and Scholes in the midfield two. Not worried at all about any of them shutting out Riquelme, mind.

It really is a matter of whether people see that Vieira and Mendieta are too busy with Zidane, Rivaldo and Luis Enrique to have any time to protect Riquelme from my two.

Cling Bak also has some good options in his locker to change tactics, I would need to look into that but this would be awesome

Will be away most of tomorrow at a wedding but should be able to post lineup on Sunday.

Go for Rustu.

 

[antohan]

Any comments on Davids vs. Rivaldo? (other than "go for Rustu" )

 

[Brwned]

Game kicks off today if you're ready anto and Cling.

 

[antohan]

A bit disappointed not to get any feedback.

Will post something after the game as I'd rather pick something consistent with whatever mood I'm in then.

 

[Cling Bak]

Game kicks off today if you're ready anto and Cling.

My details are with you.

My boys had a good training session on Saturday, followed by a light session yesterday and our new addition, Ronaldo, slotted in perfectly. We're ready.

 

[antohan]

Mine have been raring to go since yesterday, should all be set then

 

[antohan]

Cheers for all the good work Brwned!

 

[Snow]

Yes. Kudos to Brwned and Cal? and anto and the rest that chipped in.

Well done Cling for winning this thing. Consolation for me at least to lose out to the eventual champion.

What's the next game then. Any ideas? I know the players younger than Messi was done. Perhaps just do the 80's style? We could well keep Messi and Ronaldo in the game if we use some kind of handicap system.

 

[Cold_Boy]

Yeah well done Brwnd and Cal?!

Congrats Cling!!!And well done Antohan to reach the final.

And I finished 3rd! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Couldn't have done without the help of KM.

 

[kps88]

Might be wise to take a bit of a break before the next game, voter fatigue et all. I like the 80s idea, though I'm in favour of just banning Messi and Ronaldo outright.

 

[Jayvin]

Might be wise to take a bit of a break before the next game, voter fatigue et all. I like the 80s idea, though I'm in favour of just banning Messi and Ronaldo outright.

I agree with all of that.

 

[Cold_Boy]

Yes 80s should be done next.

 

[Brwned]

I see no reason to do an 80s one given essentially the exact same one was done last year.

 

[KM]

Well done to all the competitors, and thanks to Brwned for moderating this.

 

[Cold_Boy]

PL draft would be another good one.

Consisting of All players that have played in the PL.

 

[Crustanoid]

50s draft or a 'through the ages' draft which allows us to work out once and for all which the best era was (ie 50s group, 60s group, 70s group, 80s group / winners to play off)

 

[Cling Bak]

PL draft would be another good one.

Consisting of All players that have played in the PL.

This has also been done.

Players born in the 50's could be interesting, though I agree with the break.

If and when we do resume, as current champ I'd love to be involved!

Thanks to Brwned and Cal for organising guys, not an easy job. It flowed very well indeed and I very much enjoyed it.

 

[Cold_Boy]

This has also been done.

Players born in the 50's could be interesting, though I agree with the break.

If and when we do resume, as current champ I'd love to be involved!

Thanks to Brwned and Cal for organising guys, not an easy job. It flowed very well indeed and I very much enjoyed it.

Ohh must have missed it.

How about La Liga Draft then?

 

[Rood]

PL draft would be another good one.

Consisting of All players that have played in the PL.

That was the very first one we ever did!

https://www.redcafe.net/f7/redcafe-...y-draft-picks-thread-only-232144/#post5635445

 

[Cling Bak]

I think World Cup is the best shout.

Who is interested?

 

[antohan]

I think World Cup is the best shout.

Who is interested?

I am, although agree with the taking a break idea.

BTW, I like that through the ages concept from Crustanoid. It would probably end up being a case of latter ages getting more votes but I like the concept of having 4 groups of 4 teams which only draft from their group theme (50s, 60s, 70s, 80s). When the group stage is done the different stages start battling each other.

To keep it pure, every time a team is beaten in the knockout stages you don't pick off them but get to go back to the pool of discarded talent in the group (including the other team from the same era if it has gone out by now) and pick from that. Some rationale for order of picks needs establishing there, although it is likely they would be looking at strengthening different areas and the hotly contested ones would have been picked after qualifying from the group.

I would do the WC one first though so as to have a clear break from the 60s and 70s one before holding this one.

Maybe the 50s -being oldies stuff- deserve to get the 40s thrown into the package, or at least 45 on to even up a bit?

 

[Snow]

I don't rate football that old the same as current/recent years football. Would be hard for me to vote for that age of football. There were 8-10 forwards on any given time and playing 3 in defense was defensive.

 

[Gio]

I don't rate football that old the same as current/recent years football. Would be hard for me to vote for that age of football. There were 8-10 forwards on any given time and playing 3 in defense was defensive.

In Antohan's idea we'd be looking at players born no earlier than the 40s or 50s, which means they played their football in the between the 1960s and 1980s. When in fairness most teams played back fours or 3-5-2s rather than 2-3-5s.

 

[Snow]

Thought he was talking about World Cups in those eras. Don't know why. Early 60's had a lot of 3-4-3 but that's somewhat coming back in a different form so that slides.

 

[antohan]

Thought he was talking about World Cups in those eras. Don't know why. Early 60's had a lot of 3-4-3 but that's somewhat coming back in a different form so that slides.

No, I meant keep the World Cup XI one and after that have one based on players births in different decades, not based on when they played. i.e. if you extend the 50s one to take 45-59 George Best squeezes in, not Stanley Matthews.