You’re putting too much focus on the signings. They be be a success in what Ten Jag envisioned but they’re not as effective in a full blown injury crisis that has lasted 3 months now
A striker who doesn't score goals, a keeper who costs us points, and a midfielder who is never fit. Our marquee Summer signings have NOT improved us.
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We weren't going to get neither even if we tried, rice wanted to stay in London and levy was going to do all he could to not sell to any epl side and would have ended like the de Jong scenario which is another thing against ten hag, along with all the awful transfers he made, we forget that he wasted most his first summer chasing the impossible transfer de Jong which left us panic buying the ageing casimero
Hojlund maybe not but Mount and Onana almost certainly, he wanted Mount even back in his Ajax days.
Recruitment has been absolutely bad, Mount should have never been priority, and even DDG replacements could have been handled much more different.
Add to that Rashford who has turned into shit again and Shaw who seems to have gone back to being injured and unavailable, we have the complete set.
Unless you are comparing him with outfield players, he has been signed for an almost outrageous amount and his salary is in top 5 among PL keepers.
Ten Hag doesn't yet know what is needed at one of the top clubs in the world to be successful. He hasn't proved that yet despite relative success at other clubs.
His signings for the 3 or 4 windows he's been here shows that. I would say Martinez and Onana are the only ones that you could argue will be solid signings for a few years. Yes I know Onana had a mare in some of the champions league games.
His choices of Reguilon, Amrabat, Weghorst and Sabitzer show he doesn't really know what it takes to be a top performer in the Premier League. Amrabat has been the best loan signing and Reguilon when fit has been good.
Some of his big money signings have flat out failed. Antony was a ludicrous buy when I felt he was a £30m player tops. I also thought from his career so far that Hojlund wouldn't be prolific, he doesn't have a pull up from any position and shoot ability or technique like a Kane, Van Persie or Cavani. He could still prove a good striker for us but he definitely would need wingers that create more chances for him rather than him creating his own.
Mount I knew for a fact would fail if he was being signed as a central midfielder and nothing in his career prior or since joining us suggests otherwise. Ten Hag can't seperate what a loan signing can do in the eredivisie with top level success in the Premier League.
Onana and Hojlund I can accept with us not being Europes elite anymore but not the Mount signing.
Ten Hag I believe should be given January to sign a player or two. But if they don't work out this time aswell he should be sacked rather than sign him another bunch of players in the Summer. Ten Hag hasn't clearly done enough with prior signings and the time he's had to warrant having the 250m to spend next summer.
Equally important as the next manager if he fails is a sporting director. If we don't feck about and actually get Paul Mitchell then I'd keep Ten Hag. Purely because he's a good disciplinarian and Mitchell would deliver a level of player that he needs, even if Ten Hag doesn't understand that yet.
His signings for the 3 or 4 windows he's been here shows that. I would say Martinez and Onana are the only ones that you could argue will be solid signings for a few years. Yes I know Onana had a mare in some of the champions league games.
His choices of Reguilon, Amrabat, Weghorst and Sabitzer show he doesn't really know what it takes to be a top performer in the Premier League. Amrabat has been the best loan signing and Reguilon when fit has been good.
Some of his big money signings have flat out failed. Antony was a ludicrous buy when I felt he was a £30m player tops. I also thought from his career so far that Hojlund wouldn't be prolific, he doesn't have a pull up from any position and shoot ability or technique like a Kane, Van Persie or Cavani. He could still prove a good striker for us but he definitely would need wingers that create more chances for him rather than him creating his own.
Mount I knew for a fact would fail if he was being signed as a central midfielder and nothing in his career prior or since joining us suggests otherwise. Ten Hag can't seperate what a loan signing can do in the eredivisie with top level success in the Premier League.
Onana and Hojlund I can accept with us not being Europes elite anymore but not the Mount signing.
Ten Hag I believe should be given January to sign a player or two. But if they don't work out this time aswell he should be sacked rather than sign him another bunch of players in the Summer. Ten Hag hasn't clearly done enough with prior signings and the time he's had to warrant having the 250m to spend next summer.
Equally important as the next manager if he fails is a sporting director. If we don't feck about and actually get Paul Mitchell then I'd keep Ten Hag. Purely because he's a good disciplinarian and Mitchell would deliver a level of player that he needs, even if Ten Hag doesn't understand that yet.
This might be true but it doesn't change the fact Bruno isn't playing #10 like he used to when him and Mount are on the pitch. Many times it's been Mount higher up and Bruno dropping slightly deeper. I have been a hige critic of this setup since I saw this in pre-season as I do not see Bruno as a midfielder at all, his strengths lie elsewhere, while Mount has a skillset of a midfielder (again, he should be doing more of Fred role for us).
On the Chelsea bit, yeah might be the case. Which is why it's a strange transfer but somehow we need to make this work. And we're not going to make this work in the current setup so something has to give.
We could have got Rice .. Kane NO chance
Theres not much to suggest that would happen. And it would still only be 3 goals, which is not good enough.
Regarding your question, I’m sure there are a lot of reasons. Poor service could be one. Being offside, not getting into positions, not putting his head into the right areas, mistimed runs, not being able to trap a bag of cement etc. all play a part too.
In the Champions League against Galatasaray he carried the ball 60 yards and chipped it over the ‘keeper; we’ve not seen him even attempt that in the league. He doesn’t come back and look for the ball, he stands on his centre back and panics when the ball comes near him. Therefore, I’d add confidence to the long list of why he hasn’t had as many shots as Solanke.
Hojlond isn't ready to be leading the line for a CL / PL challenging team but he clearly has potential. The rest are dross and eth and whoever green lighted these transfers needs to be sacked
But it could happen, which is the point, with as small a sample as that the variance is huge with just a few minor changes. Bruno has 3 goals with 40 shots, 14 of them on target, he could’ve easily missed a couple as the xG for those were pretty low, or he could’ve had double that amount since a few of them hit the woodwork or were off by inches, that’s how fine margins are and it changes the picture by a lot.
Let’s take another example, Gabriel Jesus. He has 20 shots and 2 goals, but still register 2.71 shots per match ( vs Højlund’s 1.81). He’s actually in a pretty similar boat as well since Saka, Martinelli, Odegaard and Nketiah all registered more shots than him (although not as extreme as our other forwards vs Højlund). That seems to give a pretty clear and logical picture that you can have only so many attempts at goal, no matter how well you play in attack, and individual number will suffer if the collective number is spread out, or vice versa.
Do I think Højlund’s league form has been good enough? No. Do I think he’s even ready to lead our line? No. But statistics and the naked eye both confirm that we have a bunch of highly individualistic forwards whose first instinct is to have a crack at goal, and playing as a target man with such a supporting cast is a very thankless task, and imo he should be given some leeway because of that, instead of being written off, when you probably need the pedigree of Kane, Haaland or Mbappe to be effective in that environment. Other highly prized forward options in the summer like Osimhen, Kolo Miami and Goncalos Ramos are all struggling, in easier leagues/environments, should we write them off as well? Or do you think if we get Watkins or DCL in the summer, they would have double digit in goals by now in our set up?
Our recruitment has been trash for a decade. Even when we sign good players, they go to shit in about a year since we have no real football structure and players know they can mail it in and coast every week to their pay check.
I like ETH, but the warning signs were there from the beginning when he refused to work with Ragnick and the club capitulated. Nothing but down hill from there. Ralf was right about everything; his mistake was saying the quiet part out loud which embarrassed the club.
I don't even blame ETH. He certainty has his ideas, but he needs an adult in the room (DOF) backed by an actual recruitment department to be identifying and making signings. Allowing ETH to sign who he wants was and will continue to be a huge mistake.
I like ETH, but the warning signs were there from the beginning when he refused to work with Ragnick and the club capitulated. Nothing but down hill from there. Ralf was right about everything; his mistake was saying the quiet part out loud which embarrassed the club.
I don't even blame ETH. He certainty has his ideas, but he needs an adult in the room (DOF) backed by an actual recruitment department to be identifying and making signings. Allowing ETH to sign who he wants was and will continue to be a huge mistake.
I mean we started with one of the dumbest transfers I can recall in Mason Mount... So you know, start as you mean to go on.
Onana was fantastic last season, I’m not sure about signing him being so far off. He was great with his feet, although with hindsight that kid that dazzle through pre season should have been given a chance.
Plus he fights till the end. He’s working hard, no doubt about it. He deserves more service that’s for sure. We have these two inverted wingers but without the service from someone like TAA. It just doesn’t work. I guess antony was supposed to drift in and score goals and create chances but neither is really happening. I remember he had a beautiful cross to rashford that rashford out across goal for Hojland, if we see more of that we are in good shape, but that was back in October !
Martinez won't be a starter under the new coach. He is a very limited CB, with good mentality and excellent passing skills. But he is at best, a squad player for a top team. Essentially, if we were good, he would be a Nathan Ake type of player, someone who plays a lot, but is not an undisputed starter.
Mount is the worst signing of the three. Onana and Højlund were a gamble that probably won't pay off but with Mount we knew that we were getting a bang average player that wouldn't get any press if his surname was Mountic and he was playing in the Bundesliga.
Mount is by far the most useless signing followed by Onana's.
Hojlund is still young and could(maybe, who knows?) improve, but in a good team, which we don't have.
Hojlund is still young and could(maybe, who knows?) improve, but in a good team, which we don't have.
Is Mount still at the club?
A striker who doesn't score
A keeper who doesn't save
It's the land of misfit toys!
A keeper who doesn't save
It's the land of misfit toys!
You say this, but it's funny how top strikers just seem to find chances for themselves in matches, isn't it. He's got to improve his movement.
We never needed Mount. Onana is just a bad goalkeeper, as simple as that. GK position is so important as it gives stability to the whole defence and we went for a goalkeeper who isn't really known foor good goalkeeping. He will never be someone you can depend on, it's not something you can coach, not at this age. Hojlund would have been a good signing if we already had a first choice striker and if he didn't cost that much. Expecting him to lead the line for Manchester United is just crazy, he's not close to ready.
We cannot have a manager who is useless at transfers.
This, we 100% need a top class director of football but it would be naive to think that arteta, klopp, gairdiola and emery do not have a say in recruiting players, I have zero faith in ten hag recruitment when even when he played it safe with recruiting ex players and players he saw play in the Dutch league have turned out to be a huge failure
I think most of us were excited by the Onana signing, don't think many would've predicted what a calamity he has turned into. Mount was bad the moment it happened, out of form player who plays the same role as our most consistent attacking option, Hojlund was definitely a panic buy after we were unable to bring in Kane, probably should've been bought alongside another more experienced striker but due to our own ineptitude in the market we couldn't do both.
I didn't think we had a good window at all when the season started, but I didn't think it would go this bad.
I didn't think we had a good window at all when the season started, but I didn't think it would go this bad.
No. Kane was out of equation pretty early in the summer window. Hojlund was a planned buy. The question was only if we wanted to cave in to the transfer
There were videos calling him a Bailly of keepers. But apparently his playing out from the back compensated everything else, as per many fans.
Yep.
I like ETH but i think any further signings should be done by a good DOF. His signings will bury him.
ETH should be sacked for this very thing alone. A not insignificant number of his signings from players sharing the same agent or those he's worked with.
When will our club learn that it isn't good to be giving the managers total power of transfers ?
And the money played for Hojlund who shares the same agent as ETH. I'd like to know what's ETH's kickback on that. We paid 70m for a 20m at best youth prospect. Even 20m would be a gamble at best and we blew away 70m.
When will our club learn that it isn't good to be giving the managers total power of transfers ?
And the money played for Hojlund who shares the same agent as ETH. I'd like to know what's ETH's kickback on that. We paid 70m for a 20m at best youth prospect. Even 20m would be a gamble at best and we blew away 70m.
I keep seeing comparisons with Arteta, but he actually stopped the Mkhitaryan, Aubameyang short-term signings and focused on building over a number of years. Unfortunately that meant them having a paper thin squad, with young players not ready and dross that needed to shift. They finished 8th 2 seasons in a row until a sudden improvement and then a title challenge.
At United, we waste our money on the Amrabat's / Casemiro's who are all rejects from other clubs or short term loan deals. Ronaldo / Cavani are other examples. It's simply in the hope to make top 4 and sometimes it's fine, Casemiro for example was great last season, Cavani a couple of years before that. For all we know Mount could come in and be decent until he's injured again. That's why we've never spent more than 1 year out the CL, but also why we always go out of it early and never challenge for the league.
There is no plan to build a title winning team for 3-4 years time. That comes from the owners but also the culture of the club including fans who want everything now. Many on here will defend the Casemiro deal as he was very good last season and we finished high in the league, but here we are a year later and he's finished and needs replacing. For me though, that was the moment Ten Hag sold out in desperation after such a poor start.
I genuinely think we need to go down the route Arsenal and Liverpool went, of hitting lows we haven't hit since the late 80's, until we end up with the right manager who changes the standard of the recruitment without the pressure of making up for missing out on last season's CL money, as even qualifying for the CL will seem like a pipe dream. Liverpool when Klopp took over was way worse than the situation we were in now.
We need to STOP the transfer policy that has caused this cycle over the last few years. That may happen naturally once the cycle stops working.
At United, we waste our money on the Amrabat's / Casemiro's who are all rejects from other clubs or short term loan deals. Ronaldo / Cavani are other examples. It's simply in the hope to make top 4 and sometimes it's fine, Casemiro for example was great last season, Cavani a couple of years before that. For all we know Mount could come in and be decent until he's injured again. That's why we've never spent more than 1 year out the CL, but also why we always go out of it early and never challenge for the league.
There is no plan to build a title winning team for 3-4 years time. That comes from the owners but also the culture of the club including fans who want everything now. Many on here will defend the Casemiro deal as he was very good last season and we finished high in the league, but here we are a year later and he's finished and needs replacing. For me though, that was the moment Ten Hag sold out in desperation after such a poor start.
I genuinely think we need to go down the route Arsenal and Liverpool went, of hitting lows we haven't hit since the late 80's, until we end up with the right manager who changes the standard of the recruitment without the pressure of making up for missing out on last season's CL money, as even qualifying for the CL will seem like a pipe dream. Liverpool when Klopp took over was way worse than the situation we were in now.
We need to STOP the transfer policy that has caused this cycle over the last few years. That may happen naturally once the cycle stops working.
This thread makes me wonder: its a well known that American sports are arguably the birthplace of borderline excessive stat tracking in order to determine transfer policies, lineups, plays etc. I wonder how much of that is used in footie these days. Sometimes it feels there is a lot more gut feeling happening with these transfers policies. Especially at United.
The season so far was not satisfying at all and the game against Bayern was a disappointing reality check. The truth is, Manchester United is nowhere near the top clubs in Europe anymore. Bayern was cruising in 2nd gear and still won without much effort. At no point in time I had the feeling that ManUtd would score or even win the game. It looked like the players were satisfied with losing just 1-0.
So often, people lost some rationality because disliking a player.
There was even a thread comparing Goalkeeper and Striker as which one is priority. Some got sucked into thinking Gk is highest priority. Tbf, there was a constant campaign on ousting DDG by certain posters, that it clouded people's judgement on this team's priority.
But it's all in hindsight. If all those new players are smashing it this season, we won't even care about this 'priority' stuff
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All signings have been terrible.
Hojland is raw. To sign him and expect him to be our leading striker is a shocking decision. We should have signed a far more experienced forward and brought in Hojland as a backup. We looked desperate and Atalanta took us to the cleaners.
Mount had a number of injuries in 2022-23. To think that we signed him on the back of this season at top $, when we only had a year left on his contract. Still, no one know, when fit, where Mount would play. Ten Hag tried him as a second 8, but that left us wide open in midfield, so that was scrapped after a few games. He was on £80k a week at Chelsea. We put him on £250k a week!
Onana. Putting his errors to one side, we were not ready for a "ball playing" goalkeeper. Everyone knows that our midfield lacks press resistant midfielders who are happy to take the ball facing their goal. We are also short on defenders who are comfortable receiving the ball. We needed to improve in this positions, before changing to the keeper.
Amrabat is not the quality we need to start every week. He is very limited. Backup at best and I bet we don't sign him at the end of the loan.
Bayindir. What was the point in signing him and not giving him any play time? Especially with Onanas form and the AFCON coming next year.
Hojland is raw. To sign him and expect him to be our leading striker is a shocking decision. We should have signed a far more experienced forward and brought in Hojland as a backup. We looked desperate and Atalanta took us to the cleaners.
Mount had a number of injuries in 2022-23. To think that we signed him on the back of this season at top $, when we only had a year left on his contract. Still, no one know, when fit, where Mount would play. Ten Hag tried him as a second 8, but that left us wide open in midfield, so that was scrapped after a few games. He was on £80k a week at Chelsea. We put him on £250k a week!
Onana. Putting his errors to one side, we were not ready for a "ball playing" goalkeeper. Everyone knows that our midfield lacks press resistant midfielders who are happy to take the ball facing their goal. We are also short on defenders who are comfortable receiving the ball. We needed to improve in this positions, before changing to the keeper.
Amrabat is not the quality we need to start every week. He is very limited. Backup at best and I bet we don't sign him at the end of the loan.
Bayindir. What was the point in signing him and not giving him any play time? Especially with Onanas form and the AFCON coming next year.
No. Just pointing out a bit of common sense.
The striker needs time - not sure we could bought anyone better for that price.
the other two were sadly a waste of money.
the other two were sadly a waste of money.
If you want to look at the league only sure, he does have 5 CL goals however but the usual suspects are already wanting to bury the kid and cherry picking stats to prove why he is a failure. The Glazers have done incredible damage to this club but the more toxic fans and their knee jerk opinions don't half give tham a run for their money.
Mount has barely played hard to judge. Surprised payed so much for him and didn’t go for a different profile of midfielder
Hojlund has been good just needs a goal in the league. He has 5 in Europe
Onanna jury out. Has struggled but again could prove his worth.
Hojlund has been good just needs a goal in the league. He has 5 in Europe
Onanna jury out. Has struggled but again could prove his worth.
Not one of Ten Hags signings have been good. To think with that 400 million we could of signing Rice (100), McAllister (40), Maddison (40), Szobalaski (60), Kim Min-Jae (50), Doku (55) along with Hojlund for 70 million. McTominay should of moved on years ago along with Rashford, Martial and the rest of the wasters. Sancho can feck off to.
Doku Hojlund Maddison
Bruno
Rice Mcallister
Shaw Kim-Min-Jae Varane AWB.
Subs: Szobalaski, Mainoo, Garnacho, Pellestri, Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof
Next summer then be an upgrade on Shaw and AWB and one World Class player who would walk into the team. Once you have players to replace them its very easy to get rid of Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Scott but we gave them big contracts when they didn't fecking deserve it. I've seen brothels better run that United.
Doku Hojlund Maddison
Bruno
Rice Mcallister
Shaw Kim-Min-Jae Varane AWB.
Subs: Szobalaski, Mainoo, Garnacho, Pellestri, Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof
Next summer then be an upgrade on Shaw and AWB and one World Class player who would walk into the team. Once you have players to replace them its very easy to get rid of Rashford, Martial, Sancho, Scott but we gave them big contracts when they didn't fecking deserve it. I've seen brothels better run that United.
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Onana is ok but there is no point in having a keeper like him with no defence in front of him.
Mount has struggled with injury and doesnt seem to fit anywhere in the setup Erik is trying to play.
Amrabat has done ok whenever he has played.
Hojlund probably shouldnt have been signed in hindsight as he is not the kind of striker we needed and doesnt look like he'll ever be good enough, even the Copenhagen manager was shocked we paid all that money for him.
Mount has struggled with injury and doesnt seem to fit anywhere in the setup Erik is trying to play.
Amrabat has done ok whenever he has played.
Hojlund probably shouldnt have been signed in hindsight as he is not the kind of striker we needed and doesnt look like he'll ever be good enough, even the Copenhagen manager was shocked we paid all that money for him.
Then you just do not sign anybody and wait for a year. Or get every cheap player (or loan) someone for a year.
It is ok to wait for a year. Much better than spending 70m pounds in a player that is not good enough.
The same should have been done last year for Antony. Between him and Hojlund we spent 150m pounds, and we need to upgrade them immediately.
Even when there are no good options available*, the club is not obligated to spend the entire money they have (including from the next year) just so they get someone. It is a recipe of disaster doing so. It is a recipe of being Man United.
* Which is not necessarily the case. The money for Hojlund and Mount could have brought Osimhen for example. Onana's money could have brought Kim (and keep De Gea for another season in reduced wages). We would have been much better.
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