Aaron Anselmino

MiceOnMeth

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:lol: Yes lets ignore an entire continent that has produced world class talent for decades, seems logical.
Kleberson,Di Maria, falcao, forlán,Heinze, rojo, veron you have to admit our record from that continent is atrocious and now Martinez looks like another sicknote :(
 

DWelbz19

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Kleberson,Di Maria, falcao, forlán,Heinze, rojo, veron you have to admit our record from that continent is atrocious and now Martinez looks like another sicknote :(
Tevez, Rafael, and Antonio Valencia worked well. Martinez isn’t a “sick note”, he’s just had two pretty serious injuries and then had a freak contact injury as soon as he came back. It’s not like he’s a player who breaks down with frequent niggles in the way Martial or Varane do.
 

MiceOnMeth

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Tevez, Rafael, and Antonio Valencia worked well. Martinez isn’t a “sick note”, he’s just had two pretty serious injuries and then had a freak contact injury as soon as he came back. It’s not like he’s a player who breaks down with frequent niggles in the way Martial or Varane do.
Will probably be adding Antony and Casemiro to the disappointment section soon too :lol:
Yeah i suppose he isn't a sick note. Shame about the injuries he really feels like our best defender since Vidic and Ferdinand
 

Sea-Cow

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Will probably be adding Antony and Casemiro to the disappointment section soon too :lol:
Yeah i suppose he isn't a sick note. Shame about the injuries he really feels like our best defender since Vidic and Ferdinand
Wouldn't argue with you about Ant and Chubby-miro going on the disappointment list, but surely Garnacho looks like one for the plus side? Or does he not count since he came from Atletico Madrid?
 

Sea-Cow

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Tevez, Rafael, and Antonio Valencia worked well. Martinez isn’t a “sick note”, he’s just had two pretty serious injuries and then had a freak contact injury as soon as he came back. It’s not like he’s a player who breaks down with frequent niggles in the way Martial or Varane do.
Martinez was quickly on his way to "worthy of grown men like me buying insanely expensive kits with his name on the back" territory. If he has some luck with injuries and gets another run of games I am confident he will be right back to a huge positive for our transfer team.
 

Fobal

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I have a great deal of sympathy for this perspective. As a fan of a wealthy club, we sometimes take for granted our “right” to hoover up these talents. Because if we don’t, someone else will. But for fans of that club, it must rightly suck as you say. Boca isn’t a small club by any measure, but the power of economics mean that European clubs just plunder all the best South American talent before they are 21.
I feel for ya. But as you've seen our transfers and how much we've wasted, these type of signings are the only way for us to get back to the top
I feel for ya. But as you've seen our transfers and how much we've wasted, these type of signings are the only way for us to get back to the top
Don't get me wrong, I was complaining for more reasons than my Club not being able to keep him. In fact we Boca did that sort plunder since ages with smaller clubs here and in SA.
I was also thinking about the "natural" development of a player. I mean to settle in first division, to incorporate experience and later decide what he thinks is better for his future. To cross the pond at this very early ages, if lady luck it's not on your side in your first opportunities, even a great talent can be lost.
Yet we live in a world were Groups buy players while still being a child, this groups put pressure on the player, the family and clubs. Clubs sometimes associate with some of them and a side effect another kid it's left aside because of this sort of dubious under the table arrangements, etc...

Also I've noticed a lot recently that the pressure to perform down here it's so insane that makes many of the players to not perform at their best or be irregular. The enviroment with all that I've mentioned above (rumours of huge Euro clubs transfers included) plus the classic pressure of any huge Club, creates a very bad mix.
I've watched a more calm and composure Varela in Porto against Arsenal, than with us against even minor teams, the same with Alexis and so many others. That's why I think that even clubs buying should understand that even if they buy a young player maybe the best it's to let him be calm, let him stay at least a couple of seasons or one to the very least to deal with already very harsh conditions down here.
I know is a risk, but at the end of the day a more mature player is better than a very green one, no matter talent.

PD: As a side note, yes sometimes I think that even if some players now in Europe since years, including some that I'm not that fond like Paredes, still we could have had nowadays a team with Paredes, Mac Allister, Varela, Barco, Retegui, that is quite a great mix of youngters with veterans that would made us played a lot better, without spending a penny in transfers but yeap shyte happens.
 

Fobal

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Kleberson,Di Maria, falcao, forlán,Heinze, rojo, veron you have to admit our record from that continent is atrocious and now Martinez looks like another sicknote :(
I think United also made an extra effort to fvck it up in many cases, from stubborn stuff from Fergie, to other coaches that do not endorse the type of style many of this players bring, to bad luck with injuries and extra pitch issues.
But I don't think that is thg that doesn't happen with palyers from other places, it leaves a bitter taste because not the Heinzes, Rojos, Klebersons etc were really great transfers. But because there is nothing in the style and talent of Tevez, Sanchez, Di Maria or Falcao to not have a great time in United that makes it feel to the very least sad of how many of those, even the good ones, not ending in a legendary way.
 

Pughnichi

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One YouTube compilation he looks calm on the ball. Can use both feet. Strong. Good in the air. Decent passing range. Can bring the ball out….doesnt look too fast though.

not suggesting Aaron is our saviour after one YouTube clip…that’d be mental.

but this is certainly the route we need to be going.

Historically we’ve let other teams make the first move on talent from less obvious leagues…watch them become successful and then make our big money move knowing they can ‘do it’ outside of their home country

instead of paying 60,70,80M we should be intercepting earlier and making our move at the 20,30M price point.

it saves so much money of course, but also maintains decent saleability. We ain’t shiftin Antony for anywhere close to 80M for example but 20,30M players would be much easier to move on
 

Fobal

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One YouTube compilation he looks calm on the ball. Can use both feet. Strong. Good in the air. Decent passing range. Can bring the ball out….doesnt look too fast though.

not suggesting Aaron is our saviour after one YouTube clip…that’d be mental.

but this is certainly the route we need to be going.

Historically we’ve let other teams make the first move on talent from less obvious leagues…watch them become successful and then make our big money move knowing they can ‘do it’ outside of their home country

instead of paying 60,70,80M we should be intercepting earlier and making our move at the 20,30M price point.

it saves so much money of course, but also maintains decent saleability. We ain’t shiftin Antony for anywhere close to 80M for example but 20,30M players would be much easier to move on
I get what you've meant (like buying to Benfica the dude they brought for pennies a year before), yet you made me laugh with that one because actually it wasn't the less obvious,
it was always the MOST obvious places.

It's one of the reasons Serie A and la Liga had historically better teams and names.
In my COCKY opinion, the Brazilian and Argentinian League were always the MOST obvious leagues to go shopping.
The thing is that the Insular and Anglo aspect of the EPL (and the prior one) always made the British go shopping on Holland, Nordic Countries and among the Isles.
The same happened with coaches and only in more recent times adquiring Continental Coaches made the entire League shift it's style.

In any case not long ago, it was harder to go fishing, it was cheaper than buying in Europe in most cases but still would have cost a penny to buy a
Samuel, Aimar, and such...yet that extra penny also meant a more mature player with more games under his belly.
Nowadays like you've said, buying in this "pedophile" style :D it's riskier in terms of posible perfomances but at the same time a lot cheaper.
If this will make at some point, imany transfers to end in failure and kind of ruining the crops, we don't know, but I hope not.
 

devilish

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I get what you've meant (like buying to Benfica the dude they brought for pennies a year before), yet you made me laugh with that one because actually it wasn't the less obvious,
it was always the MOST obvious places.

It's one of the reasons Serie A and la Liga had historically better teams and names.
In my COCKY opinion, the Brazilian and Argentinian League were always the MOST obvious leagues to go shopping.
The thing is that the Insular and Anglo aspect of the EPL (and the prior one) always made the British go shopping on Holland, Nordic Countries and among the Isles.
The same happened with coaches and only in more recent times adquiring Continental Coaches made the entire League shift it's style.

In any case not long ago, it was harder to go fishing, it was cheaper than buying in Europe in most cases but still would have cost a penny to buy a
Samuel, Aimar, and such...yet that extra penny also meant a more mature player with more games under his belly.
Nowadays like you've said, buying in this "pedophile" style :D it's riskier in terms of posible perfomances but at the same time a lot cheaper.
If this will make at some point, imany transfers to end in failure and kind of ruining the crops, we don't know, but I hope not.
That's a rather simplistic argument to make.

A- We 'children of the sun' hate bad weather. Thus given options we'll always go were the sun is.
B- The SA market is mainly made up of Brazilian and Argentinian league. The Brazilians has strong ties with Portugal and the Argentinians have strong ties with the Italians. 25 Argentinian born players and 13 Brazilian born players played with Italy national team. We all know the type of relationship Argentina and England share.
C- The EPL had been a financial juggernaut since around the mid 2000s. Before that other leagues reigned supreme. I remember a time when Manchester United couldn't afford Fiorentina's striker salary
D- The EPL had started playing a continental style of football since the mid 90s and even now its considered more physical then other leagues. Before that most Brazilian/Argentinian players were unsuited for the EPL.
E- Work permits in the UK are stricter then those in the continent
F-SA players tend to put their national team first and foremost with club level football being considered as a job. That is understood by the Italians (who tend to share the same idea) but is not very much liked by the EPL crowd. I remember the outrage Heinze caused when he said that he prefers to represent Argentina in the Olympics rather then play for Manchester United
 

Fobal

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That's a rather simplistic argument to make.

A- We 'children of the sun' hate bad weather. Thus given options we'll always go were the sun is.
B- The SA market is mainly made up of Brazilian and Argentinian league. The Brazilians has strong ties with Portugal and the Argentinians have strong ties with the Italians. 25 Argentinian born players and 13 Brazilian born players played with Italy national team. We all know the type of relationship Argentina and England share.
C- The EPL had been a financial juggernaut since around the mid 2000s. Before that other leagues reigned supreme. I remember a time when Manchester United couldn't afford Fiorentina's striker salary
D- The EPL had started playing a continental style of football since the mid 90s and even now its considered more physical then other leagues. Before that most Brazilian/Argentinian players were unsuited for the EPL.
E- Work permits in the UK are stricter then those in the continent
F-SA players tend to put their national team first and foremost with club level football being considered as a job. That is understood by the Italians (who tend to share the same idea) but is not very much liked by the EPL crowd. I remember the outrage Heinze caused when he said that he prefers to represent Argentina in the Olympics rather then play for Manchester United
Yeap I agree with many of those, yet the unsuited for EPL, it's always silly, but not only regarding the EPL, regarding any League at any period.
As much what a player needs, it's some time to adapt to something diff. and the main thing he need to make it it's having a good relantionship with the coach and his teammates. With those two on board, a quality player plays anywhere.
Regarding the relantionship with England, prior to 82, it's a mix bag, yet in those days for many of the reasons already said the Englanders turn a blind eye and SA players too, but since in the past players only moved for money (mostly at older ages in the final stages of theoir carreers) more transfers could have been done nonetheless.
 

devilish

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Yeap I agree with many of those, yet the unsuited for EPL, it's always silly, but not only regarding the EPL, regarding any League at any period.
As much what a player needs, it's some time to adapt to something diff. and the main thing he need to make it it's having a good relantionship with the coach and his teammates. With those two on board, a quality player plays anywhere.
Regarding the relantionship with England, prior to 82, it's a mix bag, yet in those days for many of the reasons already said the Englanders turn a blind eye and SA players too, but since in the past players only moved for money (mostly at older ages in the final stages of theoir carreers) more transfers could have been done nonetheless.
I've been following the EPL since childhood (IE 80s) and I assure you that epl football had changed massively throughout the years. Also not that the xenophobia (I am sure that there is a different word that is less extreme so I apologise)was mutual. One of the reasons I was so anti Blanc's signing was because of an old interview he made on the Inter's mag. He basically described the EPL as some sort of neanderthal league were he will never play in unless he's desperate
 

Fobal

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I've been following the EPL since childhood (IE 80s) and I assure you that epl football had changed massively throughout the years. Also not that the xenophobia (I am sure that there is a different word that is less extreme so I apologise)was mutual. One of the reasons I was so anti Blanc's signing was because of an old interview he made on the Inter's mag. He basically described the EPL as some sort of neanderthal league were he will never play in unless he's desperate
I'm an old fart, I know that, but also remember that a fella like Ardiles, who was the softest, most well mannered midget ever simply could play because his coach and team understood what he could bring. And I trully believe that to be the most important factor for a player to succeed, no matter the League style.
Also remember that down here, we always had that mixture of magicians with butchers, even some butchers magicians in the mix :D .
Does this mean that I do not endorse that in the Islands there were lots of huge fellas playing peaky blinders in the pitch? of course absolutely (still is a very phsycial league nowadays too), but at the end of the day, it's just a question of how a coach gets what he has in his hand and indeed like you've said, if a coach was too much into the primary style of the league, he would never give time or even want an Ardiles on his team.
 
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devilish

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I'm an old fart, I know that, but also remember that a fella like Ardiles, who was the softest, most well mannered midget ever simply could play because his coach and team understood what he could bring. And I trully believe that to be the most important factor for a player to succeed, no matter the League style.
Also rmemeber that down here, we always had that mixture of magicians with butchers, even some butchers magicians in the mix :D .
Does this mean that I do not endorse that in the Islands there were lots of huge fellas playing peaky blinders in the pitch? of course absolutely (still is a very phsycial league nowadays too), but at the end of the day, it's just a question of how a coach gets what he has in his hand and indeed like you've said, if a coach was too much into the primary style of the league, he would never give time or even want an Ardiles on his team.
Oh I know that mate. I live in Malta. 50% support Italian clubs and the other 50% support English clubs and we get exposed to the media of both countries. I spent most of my childhood and teens seeing Italian media supporting the British stereotype of them being tall, strong, unprofessional and dumb. That persisted up till the treble season when Giggs, scholes and becks schooled first inter and then juventus. Then the likes of vialli and Zola came to the EPl, they fell in love with the game and the rest was history, especially since the EPL is loaded while the rest are mostly skint.

Yet there's no denying that while not being the Brutish style of football that it was unfortunately portrayed to be, the EPL was indeed more physical and played at a higher tempo. There's also the EPL obsession with tackles which most continental players doesn't share. I heard pique talking about it in a recent interview and of course maldini stating that one only dives in tackles as a last resort. In my opinion that's a misconception as well. Sure tackles can end careers but some of the nastiest players I've seen were not British (gentile, the butcher of Bilbao, Kohler, west etc)

Unfortunately there are still legacy issues (IE players wanting to follow their idols footsteps) + the epl work permit doesn't help.
 

Wrecking ralf

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I’m guessing the rumours of us buying and loaning him to Nice are so we can buy Todibo and maybe lower the fee by giving them a promising centre back as part of the deal.
 

jeepers

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Probably end up at one of the Milan clubs with a scout report that reads “susceptible to problems living in ENGLAND.”
 

MegadrivePerson

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Fits the profile of what Ashworth would have us be doing. Hopefully it comes off at that price as well. It strikes you as one where a team like Benfica or Porto would swoop in for him and then in two years, he’s like the best young centre back talent in Europe and being sold for £75m minimum and then we’re kicking ourselves wondering why we didn’t act on that at the time and instead either got some peaked marquee centre back influenced by Woodward or some left field pick influenced by whoever the manager was at time.
It's no different to signing the likes of Pellistri or Diallo though.

It's impossible to tell if a player like Anselmino will make it in the Premier League off the back of a handful of appearances in Argentina.

It's actually better to let him go to a Porto and Benfica then sign him if he impresses over there. He's just as likely to flop over there and end up back in Argentina as he is to become the best young centre back in Europe!
 

Fobal

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This is too much, wasn't there a young argie fella already in Milan that they instantly loan this year? Pellegrino or sthg. Like Anselmino, he barely played in Primera
 

Rojofiam

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I like him a lot.

Would be great to already have two promising kids in Pafundi and Anselmino playing for Ineos-owned clubs, with the prospect of them potentially making the step-up to United within a few years, if they're good enough.
 

Ekeke

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For professional scouts working for elite clubs, no, it's really not
They are mostly guessing. It all depends on how they the player adapts and progresses and any injuries they have that set them back. Nobody knows whats going to happen. They have a slightly better guess hopefully than most of us but one of the main factors for a transfer like this one will be what kind of person he is. And that would require talking to him and his agent so our scouts probably dont know that information before we agree to buy him with the club and talk directly. If he isnt someone excited about moving to a new culture and happy enough training and playing on rainy cold days then he's probably not going to make it in England regardless of his skillset.

I suppose you could hear some rumours and chatter on back channels with people around him leaking it to scouts. But its in Boca / Argentine clubs and player agents best interest to make the player seem valuable and keen and not be completely truthful. In other words everyone is going to tell you he's excited and wants to come and play in England because money is on the line for them. Only the player himself might be honest and say I'm only interested in somewhere like Spain where I prefer the weather. Plenty of players are happy to come and work hard to make it in England even if down the line they want to play elsewhere. And some are just happy to stay in England the whole time. I expect the scouts have no idea which he is at this point.
 

Rojofiam

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They are mostly guessing. It all depends on how they the player adapts and progresses and any injuries they have that set them back. Nobody knows whats going to happen. They have a slightly better guess hopefully than most of us but one of the main factors for a transfer like this one will be what kind of person he is. And that would require talking to him and his agent so our scouts probably dont know that information before we agree to buy him with the club and talk directly. If he isnt someone excited about moving to a new culture and happy enough training and playing on rainy cold days then he's probably not going to make it in England regardless of his skillset.

I suppose you could hear some rumours and chatter on back channels with people around him leaking it to scouts. But its in Boca / Argentine clubs and player agents best interest to make the player seem valuable and keen and not be completely truthful. In other words everyone is going to tell you he's excited and wants to come and play in England because money is on the line for them. Only the player himself might be honest and say I'm only interested in somewhere like Spain where I prefer the weather. Plenty of players are happy to come and work hard to make it in England even if down the line they want to play elsewhere. And some are just happy to stay in England the whole time. I expect the scouts have no idea which he is at this point.
I agree with you regarding how it's far from a guaranteed success if we buy a talented player, as their attitude can still be a huge question mark, I guess. That's still the case with every signing to a certain degree, though, isn't it? One example that comes to mind is when Alexis apparently wanted to go back to Arsenal almost immediately after we bought him back in 2018. :lol:

Clubs also do background checks if I'm not mistaken, although like you mentioned, when a club like us offer them a huge financial package, maybe agents will lie, and/or the player will be pressured into the move, even if his heart is saying no. Another example that popped into my head was Mudryk. I'm pretty sure he was pressured into going to Chelsea, after the Arsenal deal fell through.

My original point was just that the scouting department for a club like Manchester United will most definitely have reliable reports on how good these youngsters are on the pitch, and can make a decent prediction as to how their physical and technical attributes would translate to European football.

If we feel like Anselmino has all the tools to become a top class Premier League centre back, isn't it a risk worth taking? Not all of these kind of signings will work out, but the risk is way lower as well.
 

48 hours

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One YouTube compilation he looks calm on the ball. Can use both feet. Strong. Good in the air. Decent passing range. Can bring the ball out….doesnt look too fast though.

not suggesting Aaron is our saviour after one YouTube clip…that’d be mental.

but this is certainly the route we need to be going.

Historically we’ve let other teams make the first move on talent from less obvious leagues…watch them become successful and then make our big money move knowing they can ‘do it’ outside of their home country

instead of paying 60,70,80M we should be intercepting earlier and making our move at the 20,30M price point.

it saves so much money of course, but also maintains decent saleability. We ain’t shiftin Antony for anywhere close to 80M for example but 20,30M players would be much easier to move on
Not a fully fledged transfer muppet then?
 

Adnan

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I agree with you regarding how it's far from a guaranteed success if we buy a talented player, as their attitude can still be a huge question mark, I guess. That's still the case with every signing to a certain degree, though, isn't it? One example that comes to mind is when Alexis apparently wanted to go back to Arsenal almost immediately after we bought him back in 2018. :lol:

Clubs also do background checks if I'm not mistaken, although like you mentioned, when a club like us offer them a huge financial package, maybe agents will lie, and/or the player will be pressured into the move, even if his heart is saying no. Another example that popped into my head was Mudryk. I'm pretty sure he was pressured into going to Chelsea, after the Arsenal deal fell through.

My original point was just that the scouting department for a club like Manchester United will most definitely have reliable reports on how good these youngsters are on the pitch, and can make a decent prediction as to how their physical and technical attributes would translate to European football.

If we feel like Anselmino has all the tools to become a top class Premier League centre back, isn't it a risk worth taking? Not all of these kind of signings will work out, but the risk is way lower as well.
Agreed.

The scouting department are being paid to make the assessment on how a young player will develop from his current level. And the scouts on the ground are the ones that initiate the first contact with young players through their parents and agents. We've done that with a number of youngsters previously where a scout like Gerardo Guzman was appointed at youth level and he initiated the contact with Garnacho's parents/reps, hence John Murtough got involved and signed the player, on the say so of Gerardo Guzman who he had brought to the club in 2016 to identify youth players in Spain. Of course there will be players who don't live up to their potential, but it's not guess work from the scouts but rather they're paid to make a assessesment on current level and also future projection by observing the players over a long period of time.

And the South American market for Man Utd is overseen by Jose Mayorga who is from the region and he's the scout that pushed United to sign the likes of Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez when the structure at first team level was made up of Woodward, Judge at the administrative level with Bout and Lawlor running recruitment. And imo the key to having a strong first team is to first have a strong foundation when it comes to cherry picking the best young players around the world which will provide the springboard for the first team to thrive and a conveyor belt of talent which can then be utilised in the first team or be sold for profit. So taking advantage of young talent in South America is important imo.

There's a young CB emerging at RB Salzburg called Samson Baidoo, and he's another young player that could become a target for us with a view to sending him to OGC Nice.
 

Ekeke

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I agree with you regarding how it's far from a guaranteed success if we buy a talented player, as their attitude can still be a huge question mark, I guess. That's still the case with every signing to a certain degree, though, isn't it? One example that comes to mind is when Alexis apparently wanted to go back to Arsenal almost immediately after we bought him back in 2018. :lol:

Clubs also do background checks if I'm not mistaken, although like you mentioned, when a club like us offer them a huge financial package, maybe agents will lie, and/or the player will be pressured into the move, even if his heart is saying no. Another example that popped into my head was Mudryk. I'm pretty sure he was pressured into going to Chelsea, after the Arsenal deal fell through.

My original point was just that the scouting department for a club like Manchester United will most definitely have reliable reports on how good these youngsters are on the pitch, and can make a decent prediction as to how their physical and technical attributes would translate to European football.

If we feel like Anselmino has all the tools to become a top class Premier League centre back, isn't it a risk worth taking? Not all of these kind of signings will work out, but the risk is way lower as well.

Yeah for sure a transfer is never guaranteed, but if someone is already based in England and doing well its very unlikely they're going to come in and have a culture shock and want to leave for abroad. And being settled in the country and giving it your all is going to be almost mandatory for any of them to make it. So that removes 2 of the big pitfalls that could lead to a move that doesnt work out.

Thats also one of the big reasons to have a bunch of players who were developed in the uk to make up most of your team. Players like Rashford and Mainoo who new players coming in will see their passion and desire to succeed at this club, its infectuous and over time they will build bonds with these players and might want to always be playing on the same team with them.

And yeah I'm sure clubs do background checks but its about what stage you actually have a good idea about the person and I doubt you can really get that without talking to the player and his agent which means you need to go through the club else its tapping up right? So you'd need to have progressed enough with the move for the club to say yes they are available and we want this much now you can ask the agent and player what they really want, beyond money and get a feel for how genuine and determined they are to come in, settle in and work their way into the team.

I agree that if we're watching a player like Anselmino for a bunch of games its because we have a checklist of things we're looking out for, and plenty of data, stats and numbers to go alongside it. I mean thats just the basics of a scouts job isnt it? If we dont have that they arent doing their job. We should absolutely take chances on young players from the Argentine league. City have done it for 4 or 5 seasons now - most not very successful or yet to be successful because they signed them very young and its only been a year or two since then so its relatively expected. There's Bustos who City signed for 6.5 million euros in 2020. He was loaned out a bunch including to Girona and left for free in 2023 back to Argentina.

And then a year later they signed Alvarez who has been an abundant success and Echverri who looks very talented, but is still on loan in Argentina so no idea how he'll take to England. And Brighton who were already acclaimed for their recruitment now in the past couple of years they've bought multiple young outstanding players from Argentina in Buonanotte and Barco. So we're already behind doing this.

Theres loads of value in Argentina compared to Brazil for example where the fees tend to still be high like in a lot of european leagues. MLS have been signing some of the best performing players in the Argentine league since before City were shopping there and some Brazilian clubs have come in and bought players from Argentina as well.
 

Rojofiam

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Agreed.

The scouting department are being paid to make the assessment on how a young player will develop from his current level. And the scouts on the ground are the ones that initiate the first contact with young players through their parents and agents. We've done that with a number of youngsters previously where a scout like Gerardo Guzman was appointed at youth level and he initiated the contact with Garnacho's parents/reps, hence John Murtough got involved and signed the player, on the say so of Gerardo Guzman who he had brought to the club in 2016 to identify youth players in Spain. Of course there will be players who don't live up to their potential, but it's not guess work from the scouts but rather they're paid to make a assessesment on current level and also future projection by observing the players over a long period of time.

And the South American market for Man Utd is overseen by Jose Mayorga who is from the region and he's the scout that pushed United to sign the likes of Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez when the structure at first team level was made up of Woodward, Judge at the administrative level with Bout and Lawlor running recruitment. And imo the key to having a strong first team is to first have a strong foundation when it comes to cherry picking the best young players around the world which will provide the springboard for the first team to thrive and a conveyor belt of talent which can then be utilised in the first team or be sold for profit. So taking advantage of young talent in South America is important imo.

There's a young CB emerging at RB Salzburg called Samson Baidoo, and he's another young player that could become a target for us with a view to sending him to OGC Nice.
I've read some of your posts on this topic before, that mentioned Mayorga, other scouts and they work they do or did at the club. I think the scouting department has always been doing a decent job, but looking at it from the outside, and reading some Athletic articles on it, my impression is that they've often been ignored regarding certain decisions, one example being their 25 million valuation of Antony, which should've seen us look for cheaper alternatives back in August 2022, or in other cases, their player recommendations simply weren't acted upon. Caicedo and Enzo are good examples of the latter IMO, even though if I'm not mistaken, the Caicedo deal would've been very complicated due to the third-party ownership of the player (which is common in SA), and the fact that it was around the start of COVID.

I just hope that we will do more deals like this now, under Ineos, as with Nice and Lausanne, we have a great opportunity of hoarding elite talent with the eventual goal of them making the step-up to United within a few years. Brighton has had a lot of success by having a "symbiotic partnership" with Union Saint-Gilloise, as all of Mitoma, Undav and Adingra had loan spells there, before they were bedded in at the club.

I've not heard about Baidoo, but will be taking a look.

Yeah for sure a transfer is never guaranteed, but if someone is already based in England and doing well its very unlikely they're going to come in and have a culture shock and want to leave for abroad. And being settled in the country and giving it your all is going to be almost mandatory for any of them to make it. So that removes 2 of the big pitfalls that could lead to a move that doesnt work out.

Thats also one of the big reasons to have a bunch of players who were developed in the uk to make up most of your team. Players like Rashford and Mainoo who new players coming in will see their passion and desire to succeed at this club, its infectuous and over time they will build bonds with these players and might want to always be playing on the same team with them.

And yeah I'm sure clubs do background checks but its about what stage you actually have a good idea about the person and I doubt you can really get that without talking to the player and his agent which means you need to go through the club else its tapping up right? So you'd need to have progressed enough with the move for the club to say yes they are available and we want this much now you can ask the agent and player what they really want, beyond money and get a feel for how genuine and determined they are to come in, settle in and work their way into the team.

I agree that if we're watching a player like Anselmino for a bunch of games its because we have a checklist of things we're looking out for, and plenty of data, stats and numbers to go alongside it. I mean thats just the basics of a scouts job isnt it? If we dont have that they arent doing their job. We should absolutely take chances on young players from the Argentine league. City have done it for 4 or 5 seasons now - most not very successful or yet to be successful because they signed them very young and its only been a year or two since then so its relatively expected. There's Bustos who City signed for 6.5 million euros in 2020. He was loaned out a bunch including to Girona and left for free in 2023 back to Argentina.

And then a year later they signed Alvarez who has been an abundant success and Echverri who looks very talented, but is still on loan in Argentina so no idea how he'll take to England. And Brighton who were already acclaimed for their recruitment now in the past couple of years they've bought multiple young outstanding players from Argentina in Buonanotte and Barco. So we're already behind doing this.

Theres loads of value in Argentina compared to Brazil for example where the fees tend to still be high like in a lot of european leagues. MLS have been signing some of the best performing players in the Argentine league since before City were shopping there and some Brazilian clubs have come in and bought players from Argentina as well.
There's obviously less risk involved if you sign a player that's lived in the UK their whole lives, or came to the Premier League a few years ago. We need to keep doing those kind of transfers as well. There's just a lot of untapped potential in markets like South America that I feel like we've overlooked in recent years. I've mentioned it in another thread as well, that our transfer policy has to be a good combination of several type of transfers.

Hoarding the best British and/or PL-proven talent is one of them. Ferguson always did it. City are doing it as well. Kane, Grealish, Rice, Bellingham are all elite talents they signed or tried to sign just in the last 3 years. Funnily enough, they've tried to pry away Mainoo from us as well several times at youth level.

Agreed with everything else you said as well.
 

Roboc7

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INEOS have to make use of Nice and Lausanne as a pathway for players, either via loans or players joining directly with a view to end up Utd.

They’ve got Pafundi already at Lausanne and someone like Anselmino is an ideal candidate to be loaned to Nice especially as by the time his fee is amortised it’s very low risk.
 

soapythecat

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Glasgow resident these days.
We've been crying out for this kind of transfer activity for years and folk are moaning.
Lets trust the new process, rather than dwelling on problems in the past with regards to south american players. I'm sure the fee will be spread out or paid in a way it hardly touches our spending limits, yet we could save ourself a fortune or make a bit of cash by unearthing a gem.
There are many Argentinians playing well and adopting to English life now, so lets be positive if this news is true.