Abortion

buchansleftleg

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I always wondered why this was always called pro-choice vs pro-life. It's pro-murder vs pro-life. I'm not religious, but terminating progression of a fetus is terminating life. Those that murder pregnant women are charged with a double murder (rightfully so).
Don't have an abortion then if that's your view.

However you have no right to force that view on someone whose own health could be compromised by prolonging a non viable pregnancy for example.

So if the absence of the option to abort ends up killing the mother in this situation who gets charged for murder?
 

cafecillos

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I always wondered why this was always called pro-choice vs pro-life. It's pro-murder vs pro-life. I'm not religious, but terminating progression of a fetus is terminating life. Those that murder pregnant women are charged with a double murder (rightfully so).
I thought this message was going well, as in how can pro-life be called/call themselves pro-life when they simply don't give a flying feck about or even straightforward actively despise basically all lives after birth, but nope, it's just a pathetic and factually incorrect embarrassment.
 

calodo2003

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I always wondered why this was always called pro-choice vs pro-life. It's pro-murder vs pro-life. I'm not religious, but terminating progression of a fetus is terminating life. Those that murder pregnant women are charged with a double murder (rightfully so).
:lol:
 

Peter van der Gea

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I always wondered why this was always called pro-choice vs pro-life. It's pro-murder vs pro-life. I'm not religious, but terminating progression of a fetus is terminating life. Those that murder pregnant women are charged with a double murder (rightfully so).
If you could cut out the fetus and it could live independently, maybe you might have the vague genesis of a point, but until then, it's a growth in the lady's body, and it's her choice of what she does with it. You can't murder that that can't live.
 

Ekkie Thump

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The evolution of the philosopher:

Abortion is a complicated topic. I am for it when it comes to rape or any sort of act where women did not have consensual sex (not really sure if any condition exists that it isn't rape). I am however opposed to have an abortion easily accessible and an easy option out of pregnancy. Sex has consequences so all parties should enter it carefully so every effort is made that abortion is not needed. Abortion has consequences. Long lasting consequences. Both physical and emotional. Having a child does as well have consequences, however efforts should be made prior to having sex. I don't have any scientific backing for my next opinion but from previous interactions with women who had an abortion ALL regretted it at one point of their life. However, all front google results suggests that nearly all women do not regret having an abortion 5 years after the fact.

I am not religious, I don't have any personal experiences with abortion. I am male. I don't find it right that woman can enter romantic relationship with free will and then decide on her own to get an abortion. "My body, my choice" argument doesn't hold very well for me as multiple parties are effected: Father might want a baby.

It's a very complicated topic and I don't think clear / objective view on abortion will ever get established.

The reason why I am against abortion is because I watched 2 abortion videos. It was hard to watch. Now, would I be against kidney transplant beucase the surgery was hard to watch? :D Not sure.

I always wondered why this was always called pro-choice vs pro-life. It's pro-murder vs pro-life.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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If you could cut out the fetus and it could live independently, maybe you might have the vague genesis of a point, but until then, it's a growth in the lady's body, and it's her choice of what she does with it. You can't murder that that can't live.
I think the record is 21 weeks for premature birth.
 

Peter van der Gea

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I think the record is 21 weeks for premature birth.
Which is why most normal countries have a limit on how long after conception an abortion can happen. Its almost like they used science, rather a repeatedly amended book from 2000 years ago...
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
The most depressing thing about this (apart from all the lives potentially ruined obviously) is the realisation that the Democrats are impotent millionaire fecks. Best of luck America.
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
Yeah. Carrying for nine months is life changing. Telling a woman who has been a victim of rape that they can't abort the foetus, have to carry it for nine months, be potentially scarred permanently through some of the potential side effects like becoming incontinent, stretch marks which could be a permanent reminder of what they've gone through not to mention needing to take time off work, the resulting baby and having to go through the process of giving it away and being asked by work colleagues "how is the baby" etc then either having to explain to them the baby is gone or just try and keep quiet about it. To want abortions to be banned is anti women's rights. Simple as.
100%.
 

Buster15

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If you could cut out the fetus and it could live independently, maybe you might have the vague genesis of a point, but until then, it's a growth in the lady's body, and it's her choice of what she does with it. You can't murder that that can't live.
Bingo.
 

Pickle85

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I always wondered why this was always called pro-choice vs pro-life. It's pro-murder vs pro-life. I'm not religious, but terminating progression of a fetus is terminating life. Those that murder pregnant women are charged with a double murder (rightfully so).
Is 'I'm not religious, but...' the new 'I'm not racist, but...'?! Seriously though...pro-murder? Take a long, hard look at yourself my man.
 

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Alrighty. Deleted.
You didn't have to delete it on my account. :(

Banning abortions kills women and a good sexual health policy with available contraception reduces abortions?
Is the correct answer!

A friend of mine, who's had 3 kids, one after the other, went back to work after Maternity Leave last month and finds she's pregnant again. She discussed it with her husband and they will be going ahead.

She had decided that 3 was enough, but didn't take any action.

They're clearly prolific parents and unless they take steps, it will be No. 5, before too long. You have to ask yourself, why don't they do something about it?

tbh, not really sure what this adds to the debate either. Except that, where birth control is available, use it if you don't want an unplanned pregnancy.

Didn't Tony Blair have the same thing once, and he was like "I don't know how it happened". That's 2 Prime Ministers who don't seem to know where babies come from.
 

RoadTrip

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You didn't have to delete it on my account. :(



Is the correct answer!

A friend of mine, who's had 3 kids, one after the other, went back to work after Maternity Leave last month and finds she's pregnant again. She discussed it with her husband and they will be going ahead.

She had decided that 3 was enough, but didn't take any action.

They're clearly prolific parents and unless they take steps, it will be No. 5, before too long. You have to ask yourself, why don't they do something about it?

tbh, not really sure what this adds to the debate either. Except that, where birth control is available, use it if you don't want an unplanned pregnancy.

Didn't Tony Blair have the same thing once, and he was like "I don't know how it happened". That's 2 Prime Ministers who don't seem to know where babies come from.
I think the point you’re trying to rightly make is that the correct response to preventing abortion is to avoid the pregnancy in the first place, not ban abortion. And your example highlights why this pro-life wording is such a misnomer, because there’s plenty of people who support access for abortion but would never go ahead with an abortion themselves, even if it means having a child they didn’t want or plan for. And hence why the decision shouldn’t be about whether you agree with abortions but who has the right to choose to abort or not.

But in true US style, the one thing that can prevent unwanted pregnancies is contraception. But Mr Thomas wants to go after access to that, next. Such a fecked up logic from a fecked up country.
 

nimic

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You didn't have to delete it on my account. :(



Is the correct answer!

A friend of mine, who's had 3 kids, one after the other, went back to work after Maternity Leave last month and finds she's pregnant again. She discussed it with her husband and they will be going ahead.

She had decided that 3 was enough, but didn't take any action.

They're clearly prolific parents and unless they take steps, it will be No. 5, before too long. You have to ask yourself, why don't they do something about it?

tbh, not really sure what this adds to the debate either. Except that, where birth control is available, use it if you don't want an unplanned pregnancy.

Didn't Tony Blair have the same thing once, and he was like "I don't know how it happened". That's 2 Prime Ministers who don't seem to know where babies come from.
All contraception has a measurable failure rate, so maybe they just enjoy a good sex-life?
 

RoyH1

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More than a joke, it sometimes feels like it's a TV show about a fictional country, with impossible highs and ridiculous lows, that just don't happen in most of our realities (at least for us that live in Europe which is a big part of the CAF). Other than Brexit and its fallout, politics and judicial systems decisions are pretty dull and grey and thank God for that. The crazies that seem to fill up so much space in the political sphere in the US are just absent most places
 

Sky1981

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For me it's always a case by case on when an abortion is allowed if it's up to me

1. Endangering the mother's life? Mother's choice

2. Unplanned pregnancy? Deal with it. No life should be lost over just some financial worry.

3. Rape? Tough one where i have no answer.

But as such every rules needs a clear and applicable cut off point and we cant always decide justly on case by case.

If the pregnancy is 9 months? We would all call it murder to abort it.

But if the pregnancy is say 2 weeks? We would say it's the mother's choice.

So rightly there will be an arbitrary age where one is ok then a day after it's murder.

I also dont believe in it's the mother's choice 100% since the baby too has a right to life, and just like children it's up to adults to protect those that still can't protect themselves.

If it's totally up to me, maybe it's 9 weeks less and that's it, no abortion after.

And we all know that condoms works. Those with unplanned pregnancy most of the times uses ovulation calendar just not to wear condoms. So i think it's harsh to really excuse unplanned pregnancy.
 

VorZakone

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For me it's always a case by case on when an abortion is allowed if it's up to me

1. Endangering the mother's life? Mother's choice

2. Unplanned pregnancy? Deal with it. No life should be lost over just some financial worry.

3. Rape? Tough one where i have no answer.

But as such every rules needs a clear and applicable cut off point and we cant always decide justly on case by case.

If the pregnancy is 9 months? We would all call it murder to abort it.

But if the pregnancy is say 2 weeks? We would say it's the mother's choice.

So rightly there will be an arbitrary age where one is ok then a day after it's murder.

I also dont believe in it's the mother's choice 100% since the baby too has a right to life, and just like children it's up to adults to protect those that still can't protect themselves.

If it's totally up to me, maybe it's 9 weeks less and that it.
Let me get this straight, you have no answer for abortion in the case of rape? As in, that's a toss up to you?
 

calodo2003

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For me it's always a case by case on when an abortion is allowed if it's up to me

1. Endangering the mother's life? Mother's choice

2. Unplanned pregnancy? Deal with it. No life should be lost over just some financial worry.

3. Rape? Tough one where i have no answer.

But as such every rules needs a clear and applicable cut off point and we cant always decide justly on case by case.

If the pregnancy is 9 months? We would all call it murder to abort it.

But if the pregnancy is say 2 weeks? We would say it's the mother's choice.

So rightly there will be an arbitrary age where one is ok then a day after it's murder.

I also dont believe in it's the mother's choice 100% since the baby too has a right to life, and just like children it's up to adults to protect those that still can't protect themselves.

If it's totally up to me, maybe it's 9 weeks less and that it.
Why should a woman have to have an unwanted pregnancy if she realizes before viability that she is pregnant? The fetus is nothing but a non-viable mass of cells until viability. How on earth should that have primacy over the woman’s choice?

One simple mistake shouldn’t sentence someone to a lifetime sentence.
 

calodo2003

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Imagine being torn up over if a rape victim should birth the fetus of the rapist. Imagine being on that fence.
 

Sky1981

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Why should a woman have to have an unwanted pregnancy if she realizes before viability that she is pregnant? The fetus is nothing but a non-viable mass of cells until viability. How on earth should that have primacy over the woman’s choice?

One simple mistake shouldn’t sentence someone to a lifetime sentence.
As adults we have to bear responsibility over our action. You can have safe sex with very little chance of pregnancy if you took enough precaution.
 

Mike Smalling

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For me it's always a case by case on when an abortion is allowed if it's up to me

1. Endangering the mother's life? Mother's choice

2. Unplanned pregnancy? Deal with it. No life should be lost over just some financial worry.

3. Rape? Tough one where i have no answer.

But as such every rules needs a clear and applicable cut off point and we cant always decide justly on case by case.

If the pregnancy is 9 months? We would all call it murder to abort it.

But if the pregnancy is say 2 weeks? We would say it's the mother's choice.

So rightly there will be an arbitrary age where one is ok then a day after it's murder.

I also dont believe in it's the mother's choice 100% since the baby too has a right to life, and just like children it's up to adults to protect those that still can't protect themselves.

If it's totally up to me, maybe it's 9 weeks less and that's it, no abortion after.

And we all know that condoms works. Those with unplanned pregnancy most of the times uses ovulation calendar just not to wear condoms. So i think it's harsh to really excuse unplanned pregnancy.
Generally, a train-wreck of a post, but I will address a couple of specific points.

Regarding the 9 weeks limit, do you realize that it's quite common for women not to discover they are pregnant in the first 7 weeks? That would leave them with 2 weeks to make a decision and actually have the abortion done (presumably there might be a waiting period). That's not a lot for such a life-altering decision.

Also, "condoms work" as a blanket statement is meaningless. A quick Googling will tell you they fail 3% of the time with perfect use, and 12% of the time with normal use.
 

Sky1981

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Generally, a train-wreck of a post, but I will address a couple of specific points.

Regarding the 9 weeks limit, do you realize that it's quite common for women not to discover they are pregnant in the first 7 weeks? That would leave them with 2 weeks to make a decision and actually have the abortion done (presumably there might be a waiting period). That's not a lot for such a life-altering decision.

Also, "condoms work" as a blanket statement is meaningless. A quick Googling will tell you they fail 3% of the time with perfect use, and 12% of the time with normal use.
You can practically find anything with quick google
 

shamans

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I always wondered why this was always called pro-choice vs pro-life. It's pro-murder vs pro-life. I'm not religious, but terminating progression of a fetus is terminating life. Those that murder pregnant women are charged with a double murder (rightfully so).
I think it's unethical to get an abortion in most cases personally but why restrict it for everyone else.

Murder is always wrong and even you probably agree there are cases when abortion is not murder (unless you think if it's a threat to a mom you shouldn't do anything in which case that would be murder)

So how can we decide on those cases or the unique scenarios? Ideally I would want a term limit and then strict doctors permissions beyond that but that limit is difficult for me to decide.

Either way, the complete ban on it is just nonesense I think even pro life person should see that as getting an abortion during the day a baby is delivered. It's that extreme of a view
 

Peter van der Gea

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As adults we have to bear responsibility over our action. You can have safe sex with very little chance of pregnancy if you took enough precaution.
As some who suffered massively because of my mother's postnatal and other depressions, forcing together an unwilling mother and child is putting that child at risk. Not every woman has maternal instincts all the time.
 

RedSky

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Yeah. Carrying for nine months is life changing. Telling a woman who has been a victim of rape that they can't abort the foetus, have to carry it for nine months, be potentially scarred permanently through some of the potential side effects like becoming incontinent, stretch marks which could be a permanent reminder of what they've gone through not to mention needing to take time off work, the resulting baby and having to go through the process of giving it away and being asked by work colleagues "how is the baby" etc then either having to explain to them the baby is gone or just try and keep quiet about it. To want abortions to be banned is anti women's rights. Simple as.
That's also ignoring the knock on effect to the woman (or in some cases girls) mental health. All because a few right wing religious old shites have determined what women can and cant do with their bodies.

Great post btw.
 

Sky1981

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Imagine being torn up over if a rape victim should birth the fetus of the rapist. Imagine being on that fence.
Why so cynical? This sort of shooting opinions down are what entrenched people into one side of extreme. Getting your opinion is false boohoo has driven bipartisanship in America they'd vote to spite the other party.

Not everyone has the same sort of moral and standard and culture and background. Maybe for you it's a clear cut. But as history shows that theres no clear cut in everything.

As a man who wants to have kids the thought of parents aborting their kids just because it's a preplanned is not something i believe in
 

RedSky

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Why so cynical? This sort of shooting opinions down are what entrenched people into one side of extreme. Getting your opinion is false boohoo has driven bipartisanship in America they'd vote to spite the other party.

Not everyone has the same sort of moral and standard and culture and background. Maybe for you it's a clear cut. But as history shows that theres no clear cut in everything.

As a man who wants to have kids the thought of parents aborting their kids just because it's a preplanned is not something i believe in
Maybe you'd feel differently if someone raped your girlfriend/wife and got them pregnant.

It's a fecked up thing to suggest honestly Sky. There's no grey line when it comes to raping.
 

Sky1981

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As some who suffered massively because of my mother's postnatal and other depressions, forcing together an unwilling mother and child is putting that child at risk. Not every woman has maternal instincts all the time.
Sure..but on the flip side there are parents who aborts for the silliest reason. And I'm not saying full anti abortion, but some flexibility and some constraint should exist.
 

shamans

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Imagine being torn up over if a rape victim should birth the fetus of the rapist. Imagine being on that fence.
I think what he meant was does rape supercede term limit. I don't think many would advocate for aborting a 28 week baby which came about as a result of rape.

At least I would be totally against that.