Same all over, man - it was plenty dead yesterday too.
Maybe it'll pick up some pace later in the day.
All time British/Irish fantasy draft, Q-F: MJJ vs Raees
- Thread starter crappycraperson
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Maybe it'll pick up some pace later in the day.
Last time Bremer and Mackay were on the same field, this is what happened. Now they are on the same team....
I've read the posts, but still share crappy's view. I can only judge based on what they have achieved in reality, not on how they could have played in a different postions/formation. I mentioned it in my match too, definitely Hoddle does not fit in there.
On Raees side, not a fan of Raich Carter in that position, but it might not be that bad as he is a very attack minded player. With Bale cutting in the movement between Bale/Carter would definitely cause some confusion here.
Gone for Raees.
On Raees side, not a fan of Raich Carter in that position, but it might not be that bad as he is a very attack minded player. With Bale cutting in the movement between Bale/Carter would definitely cause some confusion here.
Gone for Raees.
does the fact his fullbacks are playing in unnatural positions count for nothing?
Sorry, might have missed on this. Explain?
From what I can read, both are full backs on their respective positions...
http://www.blackburn.vitalfootball.co.uk/sitepage.asp?a=147708#ixzz3MAbQJSdk
http://www.goal.com/en/news/2274/go...lcoms-top-50-english-players-eddie-hapgood-36
It's the fullback debate again, I guess: Are we dealing with two CBs and a pair of fullbacks - or a line of four CBs?
My stance on this has been very simple: There is no standard answer, it all depends on the individual players. In this case, I'd say that what Raees says in his write-up is logical enough (use an old school fullback to keep a dangerous winger at bay). However, in this particular match this only goes for the Giggs Vs Crompton side. MJJ/mani aren't playing that super winger game many of us have been opting for - it's a different approach.
In conclusion I don't think either of Raees' fullbacks are ideally suited to the role, but I do believe both will do a job here. I don't like that arrow on Hapgood, though, to be honest - I don't see him as a natural fit for a proper side back, one who is expected to work the flank in a more modern fashion.
My stance on this has been very simple: There is no standard answer, it all depends on the individual players. In this case, I'd say that what Raees says in his write-up is logical enough (use an old school fullback to keep a dangerous winger at bay). However, in this particular match this only goes for the Giggs Vs Crompton side. MJJ/mani aren't playing that super winger game many of us have been opting for - it's a different approach.
In conclusion I don't think either of Raees' fullbacks are ideally suited to the role, but I do believe both will do a job here. I don't like that arrow on Hapgood, though, to be honest - I don't see him as a natural fit for a proper side back, one who is expected to work the flank in a more modern fashion.
See the op Ed. My explanation of full backs.
I didn't like it either but I wanted him to provide a lil support to Bale. Also he can push on due to having no winger against him. Not roberto carlos style.
crompton was a natural cb who played out wide his prefferred move of defnding was letting the attacker run past him and then shoulder barge him I. e. a foul today while hapgood was a left centreback in a WM formation in an era where defending was only done by man marking till Hungary tore England a new one by players moving from position.
Who was it that once picked Bremner, waxed lyrical about him and then, to prove what a hardman he was, posted this picture of him grabbing and berating an opponent? Spectacular failLast time Bremer and Mackay were on the same field, this is what happened. Now they are on the same team....
Surely it illustrates just how much of a beast Mackay was. Every footballer of that time acknowledges Bremner as a warrior so for him to be manhandled like that.. demonstrates the sheer ferocity of Mackay.Who was it that once picked Bremner, waxed lyrical about him and then, to prove what a hardman he was, posted this picture of him grabbing and berating an opponent? Spectacular fail
The Left CB in a WM is quite different from being the LCB in a 3-5-2 (with wing-backs) ... also you seem to be of the opinion that Crompton the world's best defender of his time - only could shoulder barge and had no other method of defending at his disposal?
A master tactician who had to defend against forward lines of 5 players and had only one partner alongside him to cover the full width of the pitch and yet... whose only method of defending was to shoulder-barge opponents? doesn't make any sense. Preferred yes, but that is just something he was famed for - its hardly his only go to method of defending a situation.
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Who was it that once picked Bremner, waxed lyrical about him and then, to prove what a hardman he was, posted this picture of him grabbing and berating an opponent? Spectacular fail
That sounds brilliant, not that I can remember it.@MJJs team reminds me of this:
I've no idea what is going on there, particularly with the persistence on Hoddle as a midfielder, Giggs randomly materialising and, well, whaatever is going on there with Bobby & Kenny.
With @Raees I'm pleasantly surprised. I hadn't been a huge fan of his team in the group stage but alll I see here is proper defenders, proper midfielders, proper linkup and wideplay and a proper striker. Proper being often an understatement. Good work.
I've no idea what is going on there, particularly with the persistence on Hoddle as a midfielder, Giggs randomly materialising and, well, whaatever is going on there with Bobby & Kenny.
With @Raees I'm pleasantly surprised. I hadn't been a huge fan of his team in the group stage but alll I see here is proper defenders, proper midfielders, proper linkup and wideplay and a proper striker. Proper being often an understatement. Good work.
@MJJs team reminds me of this:
I've no idea what is going on there, particularly with the persistence on Hoddle as a midfielder, Giggs randomly materialising and, well, whaatever is going on there with Bobby & Kenny.
With @Raees I'm pleasantly surprised. I hadn't been a huge fan of his team in the group stage but alll I see here is proper defenders, proper midfielders, proper linkup and wideplay and a proper striker. Proper being often an understatement. Good work.
I had the same impression, when he picked Giggs.
Billy Meredith "Football's first superstar'
A long time before the status of celebrity had been branded about, Billy Meredith was a superstar in his time. Along with Edward VII and the prime minister David Lloyd George, billy was one of the most famous people in britain in the first two decades of the 20th century, an instantly recognisable icon whose image dominated the public prints. Even the people who knew little of football and cared less knew all about Meredith: he was widely admired for his raffishness and rebellion, just as much as his prowess on the park.
Pre United...
He had shown some talent as a player in local football and Meredith wanted to try his luck in England. His family were reluctant to let him go, but in the end he joined Northwich Victoria as an amateur in 1892. He was soon spotted and signed by Manchester City and became an instant sensation, dazzling spectators up and down, right accross the country, with his breathtaking wing play. Billy won his first cap for Wales in 1895, the second division championship in 1903 and the F.A. Cup in in 1904 with City.
Meredith scored City's first goal in the First Division on the opening day of the 1899–1900 season in a 4–3 defeat to Blackburn Rovers at Ewood Park on 2 September. Seven days later he claimed two goals in a 4–0 home victory over Derby County, and "led the field that day" by dribbling the ball almost the whole length of the pitch before launching a powerful shot that settled into the corner of Jack Fryer's net. The Athletic News reported that "for real brilliance the right-wing [Meredith and Ross] took the biscuit".
Meredith was partnered with George Livingstone for the 1903–04 campaign, who was able to supply him and the rest of the team with quality passes.Harding 1998, p. 71 Drawn against a strong Sunderland outfit in the First Round of the FA Cup, Meredith was the "raider-in-chief" as City claimed a 3–2 victory at Hyde Road. City then defeated Woolwich Arsenal and Middlesbrough to reach the semi-finals.There they faced The Wednesday at Goodison Park, and Meredith scored one goal (bundled in by Gillespie) and claimed two assists as City won the game 3–1. Their opponents in the final at Crystal Palace were mid-table Second Division outfit Bolton Wanderers, and Meredith was cautiously optimistic before the match, stating "We ought to win ... if we play anything like our normal game the cup is ours ... but this is the cup final and, well, anything might happen." With just over 20 minutes played, Livingstone found Meredith with a long ball, who then beat goalkeeper Dai Davies to score the only goal of the game; Bolton supporters long maintained that Meredith had been offside. As captain, Meredith was handed the trophy by Prime Minister Arthur Balfour.
Manchester United...
If someone was to see Meredith in the street you wouldnt recognise him to be an exceptional athlete. He was as pale as a ghost and had bandy little legs which wouldnt ‘stop a pig in a passage’ as the saying has it. Yet get him on a football pitch and he was transformed. Meredith’s skill with a ball, devastating acceleration and pin point crossing, allied with the ability to inspire his team mates, all played a huge part in United’s rise to the summit of english football. Meredith was the teams best player as they won two championships and the F.A. Cup in the years before the first world war.
He marked his debut at Bank Street with an assist for Sandy Turnbull to score the only goal of the game against Aston Villa.[43] In addition to Turnbull, Meredith was joined at United by former City teammates Jimmy Bannister and Herbert Burgess. This new forward line made the team into a powerful force, as they already possessed a dominant half-back line in Charlie Roberts (captain), Dick Duckworth, and Alex Bell.[45] They ended the 1906–07 season in eighth place in the First Division.
Manager Ernest Mangnall signed Jimmy Turnbull, and the forward line of Meredith, Bannister, Jimmy Turnbull, and Sandy Turnbull were dominant in the 1907–08 campaign. United won the title with a nine-point margin over second-placed Aston Villa, and secured the 1908 FA Charity Shield (the first ever Charity Shield) with a 4–0 win over Queens Park Rangers at Stamford Bridge.
United slipped to a disappointing 13th place finish in 1908–09. Meredith was suspended for the month of January in punishment for kicking a Brighton & Hove Albion player in an FA Cup match. The club reached the 1909 FA Cup Final, knocking out Brighton, Everton, Blackburn Rovers, Burnley, and Newcastle United. Their cup final opponents at Crystal Palace were Bristol City, captained at centre-half by Billy Wedlock –England captain and staunch opponent of the Players' Union. A Sandy Turnbull goal settled the tie, which was described as quite a boring game; Meredith himself dismissed reports of the match, stating "it was a good game for dashing, keen, thrilling football, great goalkeeping and narrow escapes at either end".Meredith and his teammates celebrated the victory with music hall stars such as George Robey.
A long time before the status of celebrity had been branded about, Billy Meredith was a superstar in his time. Along with Edward VII and the prime minister David Lloyd George, billy was one of the most famous people in britain in the first two decades of the 20th century, an instantly recognisable icon whose image dominated the public prints. Even the people who knew little of football and cared less knew all about Meredith: he was widely admired for his raffishness and rebellion, just as much as his prowess on the park.
Pre United...
He had shown some talent as a player in local football and Meredith wanted to try his luck in England. His family were reluctant to let him go, but in the end he joined Northwich Victoria as an amateur in 1892. He was soon spotted and signed by Manchester City and became an instant sensation, dazzling spectators up and down, right accross the country, with his breathtaking wing play. Billy won his first cap for Wales in 1895, the second division championship in 1903 and the F.A. Cup in in 1904 with City.
Meredith scored City's first goal in the First Division on the opening day of the 1899–1900 season in a 4–3 defeat to Blackburn Rovers at Ewood Park on 2 September. Seven days later he claimed two goals in a 4–0 home victory over Derby County, and "led the field that day" by dribbling the ball almost the whole length of the pitch before launching a powerful shot that settled into the corner of Jack Fryer's net. The Athletic News reported that "for real brilliance the right-wing [Meredith and Ross] took the biscuit".
Meredith was partnered with George Livingstone for the 1903–04 campaign, who was able to supply him and the rest of the team with quality passes.Harding 1998, p. 71 Drawn against a strong Sunderland outfit in the First Round of the FA Cup, Meredith was the "raider-in-chief" as City claimed a 3–2 victory at Hyde Road. City then defeated Woolwich Arsenal and Middlesbrough to reach the semi-finals.There they faced The Wednesday at Goodison Park, and Meredith scored one goal (bundled in by Gillespie) and claimed two assists as City won the game 3–1. Their opponents in the final at Crystal Palace were mid-table Second Division outfit Bolton Wanderers, and Meredith was cautiously optimistic before the match, stating "We ought to win ... if we play anything like our normal game the cup is ours ... but this is the cup final and, well, anything might happen." With just over 20 minutes played, Livingstone found Meredith with a long ball, who then beat goalkeeper Dai Davies to score the only goal of the game; Bolton supporters long maintained that Meredith had been offside. As captain, Meredith was handed the trophy by Prime Minister Arthur Balfour.
Manchester United...
If someone was to see Meredith in the street you wouldnt recognise him to be an exceptional athlete. He was as pale as a ghost and had bandy little legs which wouldnt ‘stop a pig in a passage’ as the saying has it. Yet get him on a football pitch and he was transformed. Meredith’s skill with a ball, devastating acceleration and pin point crossing, allied with the ability to inspire his team mates, all played a huge part in United’s rise to the summit of english football. Meredith was the teams best player as they won two championships and the F.A. Cup in the years before the first world war.
He marked his debut at Bank Street with an assist for Sandy Turnbull to score the only goal of the game against Aston Villa.[43] In addition to Turnbull, Meredith was joined at United by former City teammates Jimmy Bannister and Herbert Burgess. This new forward line made the team into a powerful force, as they already possessed a dominant half-back line in Charlie Roberts (captain), Dick Duckworth, and Alex Bell.[45] They ended the 1906–07 season in eighth place in the First Division.
Manager Ernest Mangnall signed Jimmy Turnbull, and the forward line of Meredith, Bannister, Jimmy Turnbull, and Sandy Turnbull were dominant in the 1907–08 campaign. United won the title with a nine-point margin over second-placed Aston Villa, and secured the 1908 FA Charity Shield (the first ever Charity Shield) with a 4–0 win over Queens Park Rangers at Stamford Bridge.
United slipped to a disappointing 13th place finish in 1908–09. Meredith was suspended for the month of January in punishment for kicking a Brighton & Hove Albion player in an FA Cup match. The club reached the 1909 FA Cup Final, knocking out Brighton, Everton, Blackburn Rovers, Burnley, and Newcastle United. Their cup final opponents at Crystal Palace were Bristol City, captained at centre-half by Billy Wedlock –England captain and staunch opponent of the Players' Union. A Sandy Turnbull goal settled the tie, which was described as quite a boring game; Meredith himself dismissed reports of the match, stating "it was a good game for dashing, keen, thrilling football, great goalkeeping and narrow escapes at either end".Meredith and his teammates celebrated the victory with music hall stars such as George Robey.
Style of play
Meredith was able to avoid injury throughout his career, despite the extremely physical nature of the game during the period.This was due in part to his extraordinary balance and agility, which allowed him to avoid clumsy challenges, and the toughness he had built up from spending his adolescence working in the mines. A model professional, he spent his spare time improving his game with extra training sessions and maintained peak physical fitness by avoiding alcohol and tobacco. His "gimmick" was to chew on a toothpick during matches, and this unusual trait was picked up on by cartoonists of the time.
Writing a 1947 critique of Stanley Matthews, Meredith criticised the lack of direct play on show in the 1940s and stated that when he was playing that "I knew what was expected of me – to beat the wing-half and the full-back, take the ball down to the corner flag and centre". His ball control skills were unparalleled, leaving opposition players unable to tackle him. He also was an extremely accurate passer and crosser of the ball. His dribbling and crossing gave him a large advantage over rival wingers, who relied solely on speed to beat opposition full-backs.In addition to wing-play, he was also highly skilled at sending in long-range shots across the face of the goal, and could be relied upon to meet crosses from his left-winger with a powerful volley.
Meredith had to deal with extremely physical defences, and was often boxed into the corner of the pitch by as many as four players.As his talents became widely regarded, more well organised defences would designate him with a man-marker, to try and isolate him from his teammates. This often left him reliant on an unselfish inside-right partner willing to fetch and carry the ball for him without expecting much in terms of goals or glory in return.[84] A hard-working wing-half would also improve Meredith's effectiveness by winning the ball and sending him a pass down the flank. The best teams he played in also had a centre-forward able to make the most of his accurate crosses.
Meredith was able to avoid injury throughout his career, despite the extremely physical nature of the game during the period.This was due in part to his extraordinary balance and agility, which allowed him to avoid clumsy challenges, and the toughness he had built up from spending his adolescence working in the mines. A model professional, he spent his spare time improving his game with extra training sessions and maintained peak physical fitness by avoiding alcohol and tobacco. His "gimmick" was to chew on a toothpick during matches, and this unusual trait was picked up on by cartoonists of the time.
Writing a 1947 critique of Stanley Matthews, Meredith criticised the lack of direct play on show in the 1940s and stated that when he was playing that "I knew what was expected of me – to beat the wing-half and the full-back, take the ball down to the corner flag and centre". His ball control skills were unparalleled, leaving opposition players unable to tackle him. He also was an extremely accurate passer and crosser of the ball. His dribbling and crossing gave him a large advantage over rival wingers, who relied solely on speed to beat opposition full-backs.In addition to wing-play, he was also highly skilled at sending in long-range shots across the face of the goal, and could be relied upon to meet crosses from his left-winger with a powerful volley.
Meredith had to deal with extremely physical defences, and was often boxed into the corner of the pitch by as many as four players.As his talents became widely regarded, more well organised defences would designate him with a man-marker, to try and isolate him from his teammates. This often left him reliant on an unselfish inside-right partner willing to fetch and carry the ball for him without expecting much in terms of goals or glory in return.[84] A hard-working wing-half would also improve Meredith's effectiveness by winning the ball and sending him a pass down the flank. The best teams he played in also had a centre-forward able to make the most of his accurate crosses.
Just to keep this moving...
Not that much. Yes, they are not a perfect fit...but here you lack any wide players on Hoddle side and he has 2 players in front of defence to bail out on the Giggs wing. Yes, it will be an inconvenience, but not massively so.
Don't think I'll be voting in this one mate. Not keen on having a deciding vote in a match where I could pick players from the losing team. From the discussions and tactics, I'd edge it towards you, but I'd be hard pressed to pick a winner even if i was voting.
the defending back then was based on man marking not positional defending, crompton picked a man and stuck to him since players didn't swap position. now with hoddle playing in midfield who exactly is he going to be marking?
same goes for hapgood as well, if Meredith is helping out defensively then both your wings are negated. if you want to talk about adapting why can't the best striker at his time(daglish)can't adapt to play a role he has all the attributes for or hoddle?
seems like am being of punished for having players who played recently out of position than having some unknowns no one has seen
but having hoddle out of position will be hugely inconvenient? since even dsglish is in his preferred position.
if Meredith is tracking back a lot then both his wings are ineffective so how exactly will he score?
Lol, why me?
you are online, just saw who had recently posted 
or maybe because you fronted grinner and won ?
Haha, no problem, I'm just not intellectual enough at this stuff to make a valid vote. Especially with older players.you are online, just saw who had recently posted
What do I do?
ahh no worries.
read the op and thread if you have time and vote for whomever you think is going to win.
Never mind. Voted
cheers.
MJJ pulling out all the stops here
MJJ pulling out all the stops here
if people won't read the thread, you gotta make them do it feckin'ell... I WANT PENOS!!!!!
There were none in those very tight QFs!enough with the penos
Oh, the irony!
Blame @antohan for that.