All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: SF - Skizzo/Pat vs Gio/Theon

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vs

......................................Team Skizzo/Pat.....................................................................................Team Gio/Theon.........................................

TEAM SKIZZO/PAT

Formation: 4-4-1-1

Tactics: Counter-attacking/Quick Transitions

The reinforcement round has allowed us to massively strengthen our already brilliant attack. We unite the two greatest attackers the Premier League has ever seen in Henry and Ronaldo, with Luis Suarez and David Silva rounding off a fearsome attacking unit. One of the PL’s finest deep-lying playmakers in Xabi Alonso bolsters the midfield and slots in alongside Gilberto. We reprise our Mourinho-influenced defensive tactics from our first match in the draft, with Gallas, Desailly, Campbell and Bridge keeping a deep defensive line.

Gio’s strength lies in his excellent midfield trio, and if he feels he’ll have an edge in possession we’re happy to concede that. That said, we have two avenues to give Gilberto and Alonso additional support in midfield. David Silva will tuck infield frequently, and Suarez will be expected to channel his huge work rate towards pressing Makelele and Vieira.

We foresee an open match with frequent turnovers of possession. For all their talents and sometimes underrated passing, both Vieira and Gerrard are fairly direct players who aren’t the type to maintain a stranglehold on possession. Similarly, none of his attackers are particularly suited to playing possession football. Combined with our strong defence and the ball-winning skills of Gilberto Silva, we don’t see ourselves being denied possession for large spells of the match.

When we regain possession, we aim to counter quickly, with Alonso utilising his brilliant range of passing to spring our incredibly fast attackers. Gio’s defence just won’t have the pace to deal with them. Gio may decide to play strictly on the counter to not expose Vidic, and particularly Kompany's struggle against pace – if this is the case we’re happy to adopt a more patient build up, with our attacking quartet sure to create chances without us having to overcommit players forward. David Silva, in particular, is masterful at finding space between the lines and unlocking tight defences. Henry, Suarez and Ronaldo will thrive off his service.


Keys to Victory:

Our Attack: Its simply too good, too fast and too multi-faceted to contain. In their most prolific seasons, Ronaldo claimed 31 goals and 7 assists, Suarez 31 and 12, Henry 24 and 20, and David Silva 6 and 15. Ronaldo vs Vertonghen is the starkest mismatch on the pitch, and while Petrescu was a competent defender his best qualities were attacking. He faces a horrible assignment in this match, with Henry and David Silva reprising, and arguably upgrading, the brilliant Henry/Pires partnership.

As good as Kompany was at his peak, he’s always been prone to rashly stepping out of defence to try to make a tackle, and with both Suarez and Henry so good at dropping back to collect the ball, he’s highly likely to follow them at times, which most likely won’t end well for him. Vidic’s weakness against quick forwards has been well-documented and in our view unfairly exaggerated, but it does have a factual basis and it will be exploited here against our blisteringly fast and tricky attacking unit. It’s a very rough match up for him – Henry, Ronaldo and Suarez are all great dribblers who can comfortably outpace him; Kompany’s eagerness to step out of defence will leave holes that Ferdinand seldom did; and Ronaldo having the beating of Vertonghen will drag him out wide frequently where he doesn’t like to be. He’s probably the best penalty box defender in the draft, but this is an awful match up for him stylistically.

Wide Playmaker: Makelele is as good as it gets in this draft in terms of shielding his defence, but he’s got too a lot of ground to cover here. With David Silva starting on the left, Makelele is left with the predicament of choosing between drifting to that side to keep tabs on him, staying more central to pick up the strikers when they drop deep, or coming out to our right wing when Vertonghen inevitably needs help against Ronaldo. He’ll receive heavyweight support from Vieira and Gerrard of course, but Silva’s starting position gives him a big headache.

Question Marks about Gio’s Attack: We’re unsure whether Gio will start with Giggs/Shearer/Robben or Giggs/Shearer/Tevez. Either way, it’s a good unit, but there’s issues with both set ups.

With Robben, his greatest strength as an inverted winger is without a doubt his incredible end product. In his Premier League days, that end product simply wasn’t there:

How many of those seasons was he a genuinely key player? He started around 1/3 of Chelsea's games in 04/05 a little over half in 05/06, and while there were plenty of magical moments in that time the cold hard facts are he got just 15 goals and 17 assists in his entire PL career - in three whole seasons. That's a record the likes of Suárez, Ronaldo, van Persie, Henry or even Rooney bettered in a single season. People will say that Robben offered something different to the team, that electrifying pace and the ability to carry the ball and beat players and open up the game, but most of that for me is about aesthetics. His all-round contribution in the PL didn't come close to any of them and obviously nor did his end product. In his only title-winning season at Madrid he started 12 games. It's only at Bayern that he really established himself as a key player in a title-winning team and in the summer of 2012 you would have found lots of Bayern fans happy to see him leave.

His first great season was when he was when he was 26 in 09/10 and even then he was "just" a great matchwinner, not a matchwinner and a playmaker like Ribéry at his best. It's only following the immense lows at the end of 11/12 - when they lost the CL final on penalties and the Bundesliga (which was partly due to Robben's penalty miss against Dortmund) - that he truly became a complete player. In those matches against Barcelona he was still that same unstoppable force of nature that drove at the defence over and over and over again, but on top of that he was a secondary fullback and a tremendous team player - and for me that was the first time that you could ever say that about him.

I think there is an argument to be had that Robben at his peak reached a level that Giggs didn't - although I maintain that Giggs' top level is greatly underrated because of his longevity and his inability to live up to the "new George Best" hype - but for me it's completely mental to even compare their contribution over the course of their careers.

Also, Shearer produced all his best football with a partner up front – his partnerships with Sutton, Ferdinand and Sheringham coincided with the most memorable stages of his career. On paper he’s got many of the attributes to succeed as a lone centre forward, but the question mark remains. If Tevez starts as a right-sided forward then this is somewhat mitigated, although it’s still not the 4-4-2 with 2 wingers and a strike partner that Shearer thrived in. Regarding Tevez, whilst his defensive workrate would be a valuable help for Petrescu versus David Silva and Henry, we don’t recall him producing much if any of his best football from the right wing. His title-winning form for City was squarely as the main man at centre forward, while even in Utd’s 07-08 fluid front three he seemed far more comfortable operating from the left wing.

 

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TEAM GIO/THEON

TACTICS:

Our 4-3-3 is based around Mourinho's 2004-2006 Chelsea winning machine that raised the bar in the Premier League.

At the heart of our defence we pair together the sole two defenders who have ever won the Premier League Player of the Season award in Nemanja Vidic and Vincent Kompany. Vidic's performance level has been such that he has won the award twice and he was the beating heart behind United's great team of the late 2000s. Alongside him is Kompany who was three times in the PFA Team of the Year and part of the ESM European Team of the Year in 2011/12, and a huge reason behind City's success since 2010. Together they form an impressive and influential central defensive partnership. On the right of the back four is Dan Petrescu who was part of the Overseas Premiership Team of the Decade and remains the standout overlapping right-back. Proven at every stage, from his early career reaching European Cup Finals with Steau Bucharest, to the 1990, 1994 and 1998 World Cups, to his time in England (1.5 seasons at Sheffield Wednesday and a further 5 at Chelsea). On the opposite flank is Jan Vertonghen who was part of the 2012/13 PFA Team of the Year and will naturally tuck in as a third defender if Petrescu moves forward. That quality is likely to be particularly useful when up attempting to limit the impact of Ronaldo. Behind the defence is one of the Premiership's greatest in Edwin Van der Sar whose excellent reading of the game enabled him to operate as one of the best keepers in Europe until his late 30s. His proven league and Champions League winning partnership with Vidic significantly reduces the threat in behind the back four.

The midfield is carefully crafted around getting the best out of Steven Gerrard who has the freedom to dictate from his favoured central/right channel and bomb forward beyond a relatively lightweight midfield. A record 8 times in the PFA Team of the Year, Gerrard was good for over 20 goals a campaign as he did three times in four seasons during the mid-to-late 2000s. Perhaps the most talismanic player the Premiership has seen, with the right midfield platform he was nigh-on unstoppable in his prime and won so many games that his otherwise underwhelming Liverpool sides had no right to win. Alongside him is the great Patrick Vieira. He was an ever-present in the PFA Team of the Year for 6 consecutive seasons, winning the Premier League Player of the Year award in 2000/01 and a colossal tour de force behind two great Arsenal teams. In this match he is likely to control the game by dominating both through his physicality and by imposing his class through his reliable passing and telling early balls forward. That swashbuckling pair are perfectly supported by the standout midfield anchor Claude Makelele whose selflessness and discipline absolutely maximised the ability of Frank Lampard and somehow gelled a top-heavy collection of Galacticos attackers into a functioning midfield. Against today's opposition, this trio should boss the match.

Our front three is led by the Premier League's greatest centre-forward Alan Shearer. At his imperious Blackburn best he banged in 96 goals in just three league campaigns in the most dominant goalscoring period of the Premier League's history. He will be in his element here fed by two genuine wingers. On the left is the most successful player in the competition's history Ryan Giggs whose hip-swerving dribbling and plentiful supply of crosses and cutbacks will be lapped up by a ravenous Shearer. On the right is the irrepressible Arjen Robben who will leave the youthful Wayne Bridge with twisted blood. Together the pair of wingers will feed Shearer and provide the cut-backs for Gerrard and Vieira to attack as they outstrip Silva and Alonso charging through the middle.

WHY WE WILL WIN:

1. We will win the midfield battle. Gilberto Silva is going to be working overtime scrambling around after everyone. Makelele should mitigate the influence of David Silva. Peak Vieira will have the beating of Xabi Alonso. And Gerrard will storm through the lot of them: he has the perfect platform to burst forward. It's an imposing and dominating midfield up against a tidy but lower calibre one. Our midfielders have been voted into the PFA Team of the Year 14 times. The opposition's? Once.
2. Our right flank will be a chance creation highway. Arjen Robben against Wayne Bridge is a critical mismatch that, on its own, will cause problems. Irrespective of whether Silva, Suarez or Henry is deployed on the left, neither will have the willingness to follow Petrescu back up the flank. With Robben regularly having the beating of Bridge, he will cut inside, Petrescu will overlap and we will have great crossing positions for Shearer to attack or cutbacks for Gerrard and Vieira to meet. With our midfield dominance, that should be something that works time and time again.
3. In Ryan Giggs and Alan Shearer we have a superb combination and arguably the Premiership's two outstanding performers - the winners of the Premiership Player of the Decade and the Premiership Player of the Last 20 Years. Between they have some pretty impressive statistics - All-time League Appearances, All-time Most Assists, All-Time Top Scorer, All-time League winners medals, Twelve Time PFA Team of the Year Winners - as well as the most dominant period of goalscoring in the league's history with Shearer hitting an unbelievable return of 112 goals in 138 appearances for Blackburn.
4. We plan to deal with SkizzoPat's outstanding attack by playing compact and choking the supply. In Kompany and Vidic we have two centre-halves from the top tier. Dan Petrescu is from that top bracket and, as well as being a penetrative outlet going forward, is quick and defensively nimble. Vertonghen will tuck right in, almost operating as a third centre-back where he is at home, to squeeze out the space for the runs Ronaldo will inevitably make.
5. Crucially our game plan will revolve around cutting the supply to the attack. We have the gold standard for defensive protection in Makelele patrolling in front of the back four which will be especially important given the inclination of each of SkizzoPat's front four to attack the middle of the park. On the left, Giggs' natural work-rate will cut out the passing angles to Ronaldo. Ahead of Makelele, Vieira and Gerrard will hound Xabi Alonso and Gilberto Silva forcing them to play the ball back to their defence - none of whom will be able to provide the service their attack needs to function.

 

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@Rado_N

Could you please help to put up a poll? Thanks

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?
Skizzo/Pat
Gio/Theon

votes visible without voting
votes can be changed
24 hours

 

[green_smiley]

Good luck
@Skizzo @Pat_Mustard @Gio @Theon

 

[Annahnomoss]

1. Our right flank will be a chance creation highway. Arjen Robben against Wayne Bridge is a critical mismatch that, on its own, will cause problems. Irrespective of whether Silva, Suarez or Henry is deployed on the left, neither will have the willingness to follow Petrescu back up the flank. With Robben regularly having the beating of Bridge, he will cut inside, Petrescu will overlap and we will have great crossing positions for Shearer to attack or cutbacks for Gerrard and Vieira to meet. With our midfield dominance, that should be something that works time and time again.

This part is clearly just bullshit. The primary defensive job of a wide midfielder is to defend against their full back and to assume David Silva will just stand still doing nothing in the defense is retarded. David Silva is very good defensively and City plays a flat four in which David Silva defends very deep together with his full back.

He will clearly not leave Robben and Petrescu for a 2 vs 1 against the full back. To add, Robben is a lot worse defensively during this Chelsea period than Silva is and he's not a team player - and Silva is way superior offensively as well.

Great game overall though, looking forward to seeing the discussion develop. Good luck to both teams.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Very two good teams, tough for me to look past Skizzo/Pat here but I'll wait to see some of Gio's comments.

 

[antohan]

Both leftbacks are a bit out of their depth here, but Verthongen is the one looking most exposed.

As far as the rest of the defence is concerned, they are as good as each other. Petrescu will make a contribution upfront to the team on the front foot for much of the game, while Gallas is equally if not more important for a team that will have to soak up more pressure, virtue of Gio/Theon having the stronger midfield.

I agree with SkizzoPat that there won't be much possession football and it will be a rather direct back and forth game. Gio/Theon will be better at recovering in midfield, which is a good thing for them seeing as Skizzopat's attack is vastly superior. Giggs is great but Shearer did always play with a partner (I can't see Gerrard being in midfield and also being Chris Sutton upfront) and Robben was far behind any of Skizzopat's attacking quartet.

Further to this, Skizzopat have a team better able to respond to circumstances in the game, while his rivals are better set up to grind out a win. Gio/Theon would find it a lot harder to come back if they conceded first. In fact, if they concede first they lose the game, full stop, while the same doesn't hold in the opposite direction.

Skizzopat win here, probably by a couple of goals.

 

[harms]

Robben is getting way overrated.
Skizzo has a scary team with some of my personal favorites (and one cnut), if the poll would've been there I would've voted instantly. In the real world Gio's team would be a tough opponent to beat and I see a lot of draws here, but in fantasy football Skizzo has an edge.

 

[antohan]

1. Our right flank will be a chance creation highway. Arjen Robben against Wayne Bridge is a critical mismatch that, on its own, will cause problems. Irrespective of whether Silva, Suarez or Henry is deployed on the left, neither will have the willingness to follow Petrescu back up the flank. With Robben regularly having the beating of Bridge, he will cut inside, Petrescu will overlap and we will have great crossing positions for Shearer to attack or cutbacks for Gerrard and Vieira to meet. With our midfield dominance, that should be something that works time and time again.

This part is clearly just bullshit. The primary defensive job of a wide midfielder is to defend against their full back and to assume David Silva will just stand still doing nothing in the defense is retarded. David Silva is very good defensively and City plays a flat four in which David Silva defends very deep together with his full back.

He will clearly not leave Robben and Petrescu for a 2 vs 1 against the full back. To add, Robben is a lot worse defensively during this Chelsea period than Silva is and he's not a team player - and Silva is way superior offensively as well.

Great game overall though, looking forward to seeing the discussion develop. Good luck to both teams.

More to the point, it seems Gio/Theon have had a hard time trying to work out which game they were preparing for.

There's another statement whereby Makelele was taking care of Silva... It looks to me like Makelele is sat there in the middle wondering what he is supposed to be doing here with no dedicated #10 to gobble up but, instead, Silva occasionally drifting in from the left and Suárez dropping back into inside right. He will find himself in no-man's land all too often and won't be anywhere near as effective in this game as he usually was.

 

[Moby]

Both leftbacks are a bit out of their depth here, but Verthongen is the one looking most exposed.

As far as the rest of the defence is concerned, they are as good as each other. Petrescu will make a contribution upfront to the team on the front foot for much of the game, while Gallas is equally if not more important for a team that will have to soak up more pressure, virtue of Gio/Theon having the stronger midfield.

I agree with SkizzoPat that there won't be much possession football and it will be a rather direct back and forth game. Gio/Theon will be better at recovering in midfield, which is a good thing for them seeing as Skizzopat's attack is vastly superior. Giggs is great but Shearer did always play with a partner (I can't see Gerrard being in midfield and also being Chris Sutton upfront) and Robben was far behind any of Skizzopat's attacking quartet.

Further to this, Skizzopat have a team better able to respond to circumstances in the game, while his rivals are better set up to grind out a win. Gio/Theon would find it a lot harder to come back if they conceded first. In fact, if they concede first they lose the game, full stop, while the same doesn't hold in the opposite direction.

Skizzopat win here, probably by a couple of goals.

Well summarized. To add to that, and this isn't based on the one torres-goal but Vidic-Kompany-Vertonghen against Henry-Suarez-Cristiano with Silva and Alonso providing service is a nightmare, whichever way you might wanna paint the circumstances. Whereas Desailly and Campbell should be more at home against Shearer alone up front. Moreover, the famous 'bypassing' tactic that works against Makelele can be well applied here, plenty of options for Xabi to spray his passes for across the width of the pitch and I can see the Frenchman struggling with that.

Tough to see past a win for Skizzo here.

 

[Gio]

I don't think anyone's painting Robben as the all-rounded winning machine he matured into at Bayern. But he was nonetheless an absolute handful for most if not all of the full-backs he faced in the Premiership. His pure ability to beat a man was probably unrivalled in the league at that point.

Robben was unplayable at times

Often that Chelsea team drearily ground their way to endless 1-0 wins, and it was only the man-beating ability of Robben and Duff on the flanks that made them decent to watch. Here's a flavour of what he produced below, and it's not Cole (even though he gets embarrassed in the video) or Pearce or Irwin he's up against, but Wayne Bridge.

 

[Gio]

1. Our right flank will be a chance creation highway. Arjen Robben against Wayne Bridge is a critical mismatch that, on its own, will cause problems. Irrespective of whether Silva, Suarez or Henry is deployed on the left, neither will have the willingness to follow Petrescu back up the flank. With Robben regularly having the beating of Bridge, he will cut inside, Petrescu will overlap and we will have great crossing positions for Shearer to attack or cutbacks for Gerrard and Vieira to meet. With our midfield dominance, that should be something that works time and time again.

This part is clearly just bullshit. The primary defensive job of a wide midfielder is to defend against their full back and to assume David Silva will just stand still doing nothing in the defense is retarded. David Silva is very good defensively and City plays a flat four in which David Silva defends very deep together with his full back.

Fair enough. But the point stands that Silva isn't going to match up to Petrescu offensively. And I'm unconvinced about his qualities as a left midfielder in a proper 4-4-2 like this.

 

[Gio]

Both leftbacks are a bit out of their depth here, but Verthongen is the one looking most exposed.

Nah. Who's going to protect their flank better - Ryan Giggs or David Silva? The beauty about United's 4-4-2 was the endless graft of Beckham and Giggs to make it work. I struggle to imagine a better left midfielder than Giggs to prevent his full-back leaving exposed - unlike poor Gallas at the other end.

Further to this, Skizzopat have a team better able to respond to circumstances in the game, while his rivals are better set up to grind out a win. Gio/Theon would find it a lot harder to come back if they conceded first. In fact, if they concede first they lose the game, full stop, while the same doesn't hold in the opposite direction.

On the contrary, if you lose the midfield you face a horrible job trying to recover the match. It's pretty clear who's going to win the midfield here. Attempting to wrestle control of the midfield when you've lost it ain't easy.

 

[Moby]

Attempting to wrestle control of the midfield when you've lost it ain't easy.

Looking at their tactics, they're not looking to engage you in a battle, rather bypass it completely using Alonso's range of passing and vision.

 

[Gio]

Looking at their tactics, they're not looking to engage you in a battle, rather bypass it completely using Alonso's range of passing and vision.

Quite. But hinging the whole game-plan on Alonso getting enough of the ball with Patrick Vieira and Steven Gerrard hunting him down is reckless. He's not up against a passive AM who'll let him dictate the game. Nor does he have the luxury of a third man to occupy the opposition midfield. For all his brilliant passing and vision, will he get a chance to showcase it here both under-manned and on the end of a level of pressing he didn't typically face in the Premier League?

 

[antohan]

Nah. Who's going to protect their flank better - Ryan Giggs or David Silva? The beauty about United's 4-4-2 was the endless graft of Beckham and Giggs to make it work. I struggle to imagine a better left midfielder than Giggs to prevent his full-back leaving exposed - unlike poor Gallas at the other end.

It's a 4-3-3, not a 4-4-2, so you'd expect Giggs to be far less involved protecting the flank. He would pick his fullback (like Silva), but Gallas is going nowhere. In any case, the disparity has nothing to do with the protection afforded by Silva or Giggs, the disparity is that Jan Vertonghen is facing Cristiano Ronaldo, while Wayne Bridge (a better leftback) is facing Arjen Robben (a far less destructive and consistently effective winger).

Sure, Petrescu and Robben will occasionally (not constantly) get some good crosses in for Shearer, who still has Campbell and Desailly to contend with. In the meantime, when I look at Ronaldo vs. Verthongen all I see is this:

On the contrary, if you lose the midfield you face a horrible job trying to recover the match. It's pretty clear who's going to win the midfield here. Attempting to wrestle control of the midfield when you've lost it ain't easy.

It's not "the midfield" but the centre of midfield that would be hard to wrestle control of. The answer? Don't try, just play through the flanks with Silva and Ronaldo. That instead drives your central midfielders to loosen the grip as they spread themselves thin enough for Xabi to become relevant. Guerrilla tactics 101, don't take on your rival where they are strong, chip away around the edges.

 

[Moby]

Quite. But hinging the whole game-plan on Alonso getting enough of the ball with Patrick Vieira and Steven Gerrard hunting him down is reckless. He's not up against a passive AM who'll let him dictate the game. Nor does he have the luxury of a third man to occupy the opposition midfield. For all his brilliant passing and vision, will he get a chance to showcase it here both under-manned and on the end of a level of pressing he didn't typically face in the Premier League?

He won't have a lot of time for sure, but at the same time I see him receiving the ball deep into his half near his CBs, which isn't exactly where Vieira or Gerrard would always be present to press, he'll be f*cked if he tries to take any time on it but if he releases it quick enough, it can work. If you had someone in that space between midfield and defense who could constantly - not really man mark but - maybe a Welbeck on Pirlo type job. As it stands you wouldn't want to waste Gerrard concentrating mainly on that the whole game, that's a waste, and other than that I can't see anyone who would majorly reduce his influence.

 

[Gio]

Look, if I have a triangle in midfield – Claude Makelele behind and two others just in front – I will always have an advantage against a pure 4-4-2 where the central midfielders are side by side. That’s because I will always have an extra man. It starts with Makelele, who is between the lines. If nobody comes to him he can see the whole pitch and has time. If he gets closed down it means one of the two other central midfielders is open. If they are closed down and the other team’s wingers come inside to help, it means there is space now for us on the flank, either for our own wingers or for our full-backs. There is nothing a pure 4-4-2 can do to stop those things.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Think a 4-2-3-1 with Gerrard in a more advanced role would be more apt for this game. Looking forward to see how this one pans out.

 

[Moby]

Think a 4-2-3-1 with Gerrard in a more advanced role would be more apt for this game.

Yep, my thoughts as well. Add to that Vieira and Makelele have played in a similar setup together - though obviously not in the PL. There's little use of stocking up 3 CMs against the side Skizzo has put forward, whereas Slippy in his 08-09 role where he played off Torres would be beneficial for both the team as well as Shearer who's a bit isolated at the moment. Lastly, Alonso faces more 'immediate' resistance.

 

[Gio]

It's not "the midfield" but the centre of midfield that would be hard to wrestle control of. The answer? Don't try, just play through the flanks with Silva and Ronaldo. That instead drives your central midfielders to loosen the grip as they spread themselves thin enough for Xabi to become relevant. Guerrilla tactics 101, don't take on your rival where they are strong, chip away around the edges.

Let's look at the flanks. Skizzopat wins his right/our left while we win our right/his left. The flanks are fairly even and we've got control of the centre of the park - the most important part.

 

[Ish]

2 fairly amazing teams, especially in midfield and attack.

Should I be worried about Vidic against the pace/power of Henry/Suarez?

 

[Moby]

Should I be worried about Vidic against the pace/power of Henry/Suarez?

Vida can handle himself, it's Kompany and his alpha male act that is worrying. Henry's way too clever not to punish that, Suarez though is stupid enough to get wound up by that and do something stupid..

 

[Marty1968]

Skizzo's team has a perfect shape for me and so many attacking players who can interchange freely. Henry can play on the left with Silva having a free role in the middle and Suarez up top.

The one mis-match i think is just where Gio/Theon doesn't want it. Ronaldo vs Vertonghen. Only one winner no matter how good Vertonghen might be on his day..

 

[Skizzo]

2 fairly amazing teams, especially in midfield and attack.

Should I be worried about Vidic against the pace/power of Henry/Suarez?

The biggest issue in regards to Vidic pace would be having to cover Kompany if he steps out of defence as he is prone to do on occasion. It would leave a lot of ground I'm behind that he would have to make up, which would be tough enough against most strikers, and probably too much of an ask against Suarez/Henry

 

[Ish]

The biggest issue in regards to Vidic pace would be having to cover Kompany if he steps out of defence as he is prone to do on occasion. It would leave a lot of ground I'm behind that he would have to make up, which would be tough enough against most strikers, and probably too much of an ask against Suarez/Henry

Vida can handle himself, it's Kompany and his alpha male act that is worrying. Henry's way too clever not to punish that, Suarez though is stupid enough to get wound up by that and do something stupid..

Yeah, agree with all of that.

 

[Gio]

As good as Kompany was at his peak, he’s always been prone to rashly stepping out of defence to try to make a tackle, and with both Suarez and Henry so good at dropping back to collect the ball, he’s highly likely to follow them at times, which most likely won’t end well for him.

There's a key difference here which make that idea less relevant.

The key is that City's tactical naivety leaves their central defenders brutally exposed. For all their quality on the ball, the likes of Toure and Silva simply don't offer enough in terms of defensive effort or shape, while the likes of Fernandinho just don't cut it at the top level. Off the ball City's midfield is a mess. Here the difference couldn't be greater. We've got three tireless and physically dominant midfielders. We've also got Claude Makelele who is simply streets ahead of anything City have had 'protecting' their back four. Kompany won't need to step into midfield because that area will be exceptionally well covered.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'd say Skizzo's team is highly contingent on Alonso having a good game. They have a very good spectrum of attacking threats, but without Alonso, it'll not be coordinated and even halfway effective as a overall unit. With Gerrard and Vieira there, I really don't see Alonso running the game. Not sure I like Suarez/Henry combo either. Either a tie or a sneak goal for Skizzo.

 

[Gio]

Vida can handle himself, it's Kompany and his alpha male act that is worrying. Henry's way too clever not to punish that, Suarez though is stupid enough to get wound up by that and do something stupid..

See above re Kompany. He won't need to attempt to be a one-man defence here.

 

[Moby]

Not sure I like Suarez/Henry combo either

It's a massive upgrade on Suarez-Sturridge that worked brilliantly, and they are in a similar counter attacking setup.

 

[Moby]

See above re Kompany. He won't need to attempt to be a one-man defence here.

True, he's got a lot more protection here. He won't be doing it to the extent he has to for city but at the same time I don't see him as the most composed of defenders, even inside the box he likes to be everywhere. Put a ball in the air and he will brush aside others to clear it. I'm exaggerating of course but in tight games such qualities stand out. Against that forward line you need more 'smartness' than the Belgian brings in, to put it bluntly.

 

[Gio]

midfield that would be hard to wrestle control of. The answer? Don't try, just play through the flanks with Silva and Ronaldo. That instead drives your central midfielders to loosen the grip as they spread themselves thin enough for Xabi to become relevant. Guerrilla tactics 101, don't take on your rival where they are strong, chip away around the edges.

With such a strategy you'd want a back four strong on the ball who can hit those early diagonals to wingers. A couple of Koeman types would be ideal. But I do wonder about the scope of the likes of Gallas, Campbell and Desailly to offer anything more than simple turnover in possession. Just can't see that working effectively, and again, it all hinges on Alonso having a star man performance when he's facing the very opposition that means he'll struggle to impose himself on the game at all.

 

[antohan]

Let's look at the flanks. Skizzopat wins his right/our left while we win our right/his left. The flanks are fairly even and we've got control of the centre of the park - the most important part.

We seem to rate David Silva and the impact he will have on this game quite differently. I agree Petrescu is important there but Robben doesn't belong in a semi tbh.

 

[Gio]

We seem to rate David Silva and the impact he will have on this game quite differently. I agree Petrescu is important there but Robben doesn't belong in a semi tbh.

Whereas Bridge does?

 

[Joga Bonito]

Yep, my thoughts as well. Add to that Vieira and Makelele have played in a similar setup together - though obviously not in the PL. There's little use of stocking up 3 CMs against the side Skizzo has put forward, whereas Slippy in his 08-09 role where he played off Torres would be beneficial for both the team as well as Shearer who's a bit isolated at the moment. Lastly, Alonso faces more 'immediate' resistance.

Aye, Shearer could do with a wee bit more support and Gio/Theon's side does look a bit over reliant on him at the moment. Giggs wasn't a prolific goalscorer, Robben scored 15 PL goals in 3 seasons (67 games) for Chelsea and Shearer happens to be up against Campbell and Desailly in a rather isolated role. Whilst Gerrard is a considerable goalscoring threat from central midfield, he would pose a significantly greater threat playing behind Shearer in his 08/09 role - his greatest PL goalscoring season. Or even playing Gerrard on the right, in his 06/07 role, with Tevez playing as the second striker with Robben making way.

Vieira and Makelele is a good enough midfield as it stands and for me the key is limiting Alonso's influence who is the key to Skiz/Pat's team. Even then they have a great auxilary playmaker in Silva, so it's not just Alonso, but still he is pivotal as it stands in distributing the ball from deep for the likes of Suarez, Henry and Ronaldo to have a go at the opposition. Gerrard in a more advanced central role (or Tevez who would be tailor made for that role) would give Alonso-Gilberto more headaches, than a CM hounding Alonso from a deeper position. I do understand the rationale in playing Makelele in the anchor role and also in having a midfield trio to gain the upper hand in the middle, but even then it might be too much for even Makelele with the likes of Suarez/Henry dropping deep, Ronaldo cutting in and Silva gliding inside occasionally. Obviously the likes of Gerrard and Vieira etc would be helping him out and it is an extreme view but it would make more sense to attempt to stem the supplyline (primarily Alonso) as opposed to desperately trying to stop the tide.

Leaning slightly towards Skizz/Pat's team atm as their firepower is too overpowering but it could go either way as both have the tools to win the match. Undecided for now and will see how it progresses.

 

[Moby]

Definitely agree that Alonso's the heartbeat of this team, take him out and it will break apart. There's another quality playmaker in Silva but then you start getting into the Vieira-Gerrard territory instead of bypassing it that Alonso can do, and that is something you don't want to.

 

[Moby]

We seem to rate David Silva and the impact he will have on this game quite differently. I agree Petrescu is important there but Robben doesn't belong in a semi tbh.

I'm finding it difficult to see Silva having much of an impact as things stand, Gerrard is patrolling the precise area he is operating in and he will never let him breathe for 2 seconds, nevermind the presence of Petrescu who can advance freely knowing Silva is never gonna advance into the flank, rather operate in midfield. Alonso picking out Ronaldo tearing Vertonghen apart is by far the clearest route to goal.

 

[Gio]

We seem to rate David Silva and the impact he will have on this game quite differently. I agree Petrescu is important there but Robben doesn't belong in a semi tbh.

I rate Silva and his slickness and slipperiness on the ball. But I'm not convinced about him in this game. Either centrally up against Gerrard or Makelele, or out wide in a conventional 442 in a team that won't see a lot of the ball.

 

[antohan]

With such a strategy you'd want a back four strong on the ball who can hit those early diagonals to wingers. A couple of Koeman types would be idea. But I do wonder about the scope of the likes of Gallas, Campbell and Desailly to offer anything more than simple turnover in possession. Just can't see that working effectively, and again, it all hinges on Alonso having a star man performance when he's facing the very opposition that means he'll struggle to impose himself on the game at all.

Alonso would pick it up and spray deep, he won't be standing on the halfway line waiting for the ball to get to him while pressed by your midfielders. I'd agree though another ball player would be handy, but so long as Alonso provides an outlet from deep/rightish position, you can also rely on Bridge carrying the ball forward on the left and connecting with Silva. It's not like Robben will stop him doing so. And the moment Silva gets the ball, your midfield goes into disarray. I can see Gerrard trying to stop that linkup, but if taken out (by a simple pass) then you have Makelele having to fill in for him and guess who drops in behind his back to receive Silva's pass? Suárez.

There's too many brilliant players spread across the pitch for that midfield to contend with, and they'll end up toying with it.

 

[antohan]

Whereas Bridge does?

See above ^^