All Time Reserves Draft | Quarters

harms

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Chesterlestreet said:
Nowhere near it.

Best available fullback? Could be.
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He isn't the most balanced one (it would be Bossis, probably), but in the right set-up Alves will contribute more to the team than any other fullback in the draft

Let's agree to disagree.
 

Chesterlestreet

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harms said:
Let's agree to disagree.
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Sure.

I don't like the cnut, so there's that - probably not 100% objective.

Still, balance would be the key objective element. If you're going for a more or less standard back four, with players from all over the historical spectrum, balance is usually what you aim for - and as a balanced fullback, I don't rate him very highly at all compared to many others. There are several unpicked players I'd rather have than him, actually.

Moot point if you don't intend to sell him as the King of Balance, of course. In the right set-up he's clearly a top player.
 

Enigma_87

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Chesterlestreet said:
I've a very lazy period coming up, mate - so I can play whenever, really. Entirely up to you.
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Let's make it Wednesday then.

2 May (Mon):
3 May (Tue): green_smiley vs. Tuppet
4 May (Wed): Enigma_87 vs Chesterlestreet
5 May (Thu):
6 May (Fri):
 

Enigma_87

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Chesterlestreet said:
Sure.

I don't like the cnut, so there's that - probably not 100% objective.

Still, balance would be the key objective element. If you're going for a more or less standard back four, with players from all over the historical spectrum, balance is usually what you aim for - and as a balanced fullback, I don't rate him very highly at all compared to many others. There are several unpicked players I'd rather have than him, actually.

Moot point if you don't intend to sell him as the King of Balance, of course. In the right set-up he's clearly a top player.
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I'm going 4-3-3 in this draft so I'd need the full backs to provide width especially when I have 3 hard working midfielders in the center and an old school purely defensive type in Schulz - in other words plenty of cover.

In any case that's the reason why I picked him. I don't think there's another right back that is as good as him offensively in the pool and he'll work well with Simonsen on the right. Sure there are more balanced full backs, but at his peak he can provide something I think rest of the right backs can't at least in the formation I intend on playing. Especially since Cajkovski also can provide cover when he bombs forward as he is also fluent on the right side.

Playing at his top at Barca side won't get him much credit in terms of balance given their style but he's no mug defensively and in terms of athleticism and agility he doesn't fall behind either.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Isotope said:
Zambrotta is the most balanced modern fullback I've seen, other than Cafu, Lahm, and Zanetti. He's even deserve on the All Time Draft, imho.
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He's versatile too, can use him on both flanks, etc. But he was suspect defensively - like almost all modern fullbacks - compared to the great fullbacks/sidebacks who went before him. The lot of the modern/contemporary ones mainly operated/operate in systems which exposed/expose them in a purely defensive sense (positioning, defensive technique, physical prowess, what have you). Pointless argument to make against them in a modern/contemporary context, as it doesn't detract anything from their game, where "exposing" in that regard meant/means a calculated risk - not an individual flaw.

But if your game is based on fielding fullbacks/side backs who were genuinely good defenders on top of being assets offensively, the modern/contemporary variety come up short. That shouldn't be a controversial statement. It's a matter of trends and developments in the game as such.
 

Isotope

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Chesterlestreet said:
He's versatile too, can use him on both flanks, etc. But he was suspect defensively - like almost all modern fullbacks - compared to the great fullbacks/sidebacks who went before him. The lot of the modern/contemporary ones mainly operated/operate in systems which exposed/expose them in a purely defensive sense (positioning, defensive technique, physical prowess, what have you). Pointless argument to make against them in a modern/contemporary context, as it doesn't detract anything from their game, where "exposing" in that regard meant/means a calculated risk - not an individual flaw.

But if your game is based on fielding fullbacks/side backs who were genuinely good defenders on top of being assets offensively, the modern/contemporary variety come up short. That shouldn't be a controversial statement. It's a matter of trends and developments in the game as such.
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That's the thing that still confuse me. In this draft, if your opponent have great wingers, you are expecting winger vs fullback. Everytime an attacking fullback would've been seen as a 'weakness" against any decent winger. Because many see that the fullback has to defend all time, hust because if he has any thought to venture forward, the winger would be free to do whatever they want.

It's a mistery of how Alves could go forward a lot, when the opposition play with decent wingers in all those yaers then.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Isotope said:
That's the thing that still confuse me. In this draft, if your opponent have great wingers, you are expecting winger vs fullback. Everytime an attacking fullback would've been seen as a 'weakness" against any decent winger. Because many see that the fullback has to defend all time, hust because if he has any thought to venture forward, the winger would be free to do whatever they want.

It's a mistery of how Alves could go forward a lot, when the opposition play with decent wingers in all those yaers then.
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Yes.

There's two ways of looking at this, though:

1. In a realistic match, it's a ridiculous argument. Take the amounts of flak a certain Real fullback got last draft: Horribly inept defensively, practically a winger who operates as a "defender" purely in a nominal sense, etc. Now, in a "realistic" context this is - as said - a ridiculous argument. Because you don't need a defensively immaculate left back or right back in order to overcome your opponent. We all know this - and have seen evidence of it time and again.

2. But. The context here is all-time. We're talking about the very best wingers/tricksters in football history (apart from the blocked ones) - players who target their man and seek to attack him/get past him whenever they're on the ball. That isn't some sort of fantasy. It's plain as day that if you're up against Garrincha - or Garrincha light - you better feckin' well be able to defend in a...purely defensive capacity. You won't get away with being "decent for an otherwise attacking fullback" in that respect. If you sport a modern fullback, who isn't "balanced" in the sense normally implied, you have a problem on your hands unless you can provide him with the support he needs - against a historically great trickster on the flank.

So, it's context: Which players can do what - in what context, supported by whom? It's about history, really: Contemporary fullbacks normally defend very differently from their counterparts thirty or fifty years ago, their basic task is different in nature.

The way these draft games are usually interpreted does not favour modern/contemporary defenders - whether they be lateral or central ones. There's a marked tendency to focus on "battles" rather than looking at the whole XI, which necessarily means the modern brand of pure defender will look shaky compared to...what have you.
 

Moby

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2 May (Mon):
3 May (Tue): green_smiley vs. Tuppet; BBRBB vs. Aldo Staine
4 May (Wed): Enigma_87 vs Chesterlestreet
5 May (Thu):
6 May (Fri):
 

BBRBB

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Aldo said:
Sure, who do you want to send it to?
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I don't know, maybe @Balu or whoever is ready to start the game.

You can probably do it too if necessary. I'll need a few minutes to format my writeup.
 

BBRBB

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Is that micro @RedTiger ?

Cute baby, congratulations to you and the mommy!
 

Enigma_87

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Congrats @RedTiger if not Luis Ronaldo, let it be to replicate at least Cristiano Ronaldo's career (minus the Real part).
 

RedTiger

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Guys thanks for the well wishes, mother and baby are home now so just sleepless nights from now on:)

In regards to the pisstaking in the match threads, why don't we just do the next draft in a private forum group?
 

BBRBB

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I'm out of this, do what you want with my spot/team if someone wants to takeover.

Good luck everyone.
 
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