Alternatives for Frenkie De Jong

#07

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Why would Napoli need more money after selling Koulibaly?
My understanding of the situation was that Koulibaly going wasn't going to solve all their problems. I could be wrong about that though. If I am fair enough.

In terms of Ruiz, his contract is expiring next summer and he's made clear he's not signing a new one. So if Napoli wants to cash in it needs to be between now and then.
 

georgipep

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My understanding of the situation was that Koulibaly going wasn't going to solve all their problems. I could be wrong about that though. If I am fair enough.

In terms of Ruiz, his contract is expiring next summer and he's made clear he's not signing a new one. So if Napoli wants to cash in it needs to be between now and then.
That's true too (the contract situation). I've never been a huge fan of his and considering he would come on more than average wages, am not happy with him, especially if this is a plan C, D or worse, for Ten Hag.

Telles and Cavani were similar type of transfers and while Cavani is a mixed bag, Telles is a £93k/week stone we are now carrying around until 2025
 

#07

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That's true too (the contract situation). I've never been a huge fan of his and considering he would come on more than average wages, am not happy with him, especially if this is a plan C, D or worse, for Ten Hag.

Telles and Cavani were similar type of transfers and while Cavani is a mixed bag, Telles is a £93k/week stone we are now carrying around until 2025
Yeah and this is why I'm not offended by the idea of going for Grillitsch on a free transfer.

Is he who I would pick if I had my pick of all the midfielders in the world? No. But is he a good standard, affordable and leave room for upgrading later? Yes. If we go out and spend £50m on someone, Glazernomics dictates that we ain't going to be upgrading them later. So, if its Ruiz or someone else, I'd rather not jump into a transfer out of desperation.

Lets get a cheap option and make moves in the background to bring someone we've scouted and knows suits the role in January.
 

Lee565

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Ruiz and Teilimens for around 60 million is maybe still not perfect but they are an upgrade on our current midfield in possession of the ball and I can't imagine either would be hard to shift for around the same fee they would cost in their current contract situation when time comes to move them on for better quality unless they are revelation at the club.
 

Strootman's Finger

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We only added Renato Sanches to the list yesterday, and now he's signed for PSG today.
 

JuriM

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Ruiz is a bit meh in my opinion. Jack of all trades, master of none.

I am quite sure that Ruiz has hit eyes set to Real Madrid next summer, Kroos & Modric can't be there forever and he has very good relationship with Carlo.
 

Strootman's Finger

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I am quite sure that Ruiz has hit eyes set to Real Madrid next summer, Kroos & Modric can't be there forever and he has very good relationship with Carlo.
But the have Tchouameni, Camavinga and Valverde waiting to replace Modric, Kroos and Casamiro
 

Teja

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Surely there's some promising U21 in Ajax or in the Dutch league or in Spain with the right attributes that we can develop long term?

No prospects that we can snipe from La Masia?
 

hellhunter

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Surely there's some promising U21 in Ajax or in the Dutch league or in Spain with the right attributes that we can develop long term?

No prospects that we can snipe from La Masia?
Kenneth Taylor from Ajax is said to have a lot of potential. Although ETH kind of refused to use him when he was there.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Surely there's some promising U21 in Ajax or in the Dutch league or in Spain with the right attributes that we can develop long term?

No prospects that we can snipe from La Masia?
Nope, we must spend £80mil+ on a player to assert our dominance then wonder why the supporting cast isn’t up to par for a season or two then do it all over again.
 

dutchred

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Surely there's some promising U21 in Ajax or in the Dutch league or in Spain with the right attributes that we can develop long term?

No prospects that we can snipe from La Masia?
Our own Iqbal is very similar to Frenkie in the way that he plays. We don't need a youngster but and established central midfielder
 

Teja

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Our own Iqbal is very similar to Frenkie in the way that he plays. We don't need a youngster but and established central midfielder
Yup I'm a huge fan and I really hope we develop him but you have to trust the manager's judgement here.

Sees him every day in training and still decides he wants FdJ rather than Antony / RB + Iqbal.
 

Borys

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Our own Iqbal is very similar to Frenkie in the way that he plays. We don't need a youngster but and established central midfielder
This is the best approach. I believe even if we got de Jong, it would still be better to have him paired with another more defensive minded player in midfield (considering we're playing midfield two + no10). Therefore I'd be more keen on someone like Neves who would also be a better fit for Iqbal.
I'm not sold on the idea of Frankie magically transforming our midfield. Smells like another Di Maria / Sanchez situation.
 

dutchred

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Yup I'm a huge fan and I really hope we develop him but you have to trust the manager's judgement here.

Sees him every day in training and still decides he wants FdJ rather than Antony / RB + Iqbal.
True, which is why I said we need an established CM who can come in immediately and allow Iqbal to develop in his own time. If we cant get Frenkie We need an experienced altrenative. Who ? God only knows
 

georgipep

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Yeah and this is why I'm not offended by the idea of going for Grillitsch on a free transfer.

Is he who I would pick if I had my pick of all the midfielders in the world? No. But is he a good standard, affordable and leave room for upgrading later? Yes. If we go out and spend £50m on someone, Glazernomics dictates that we ain't going to be upgrading them later. So, if its Ruiz or someone else, I'd rather not jump into a transfer out of desperation.

Lets get a cheap option and make moves in the background to bring someone we've scouted and knows suits the role in January.
When you say affordable, what do you mean?

If Brighton can't agree a deal with him because of high demands, how is he going to be someone we can get rid of when needed?
 

Alemar

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Why not to test PSG resolve for Veratti? He would be a good alternative for FDJ
 

pocco

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Doesnt he play further up the field?

Maxence Caqueret – The Heart of a Lyon
I think he's got the game for it. I only had chance to quickly read a bit of that link but straight away it talks about him covering every blade if grass etc. But, don't forget FDJ isn't a traditional holding midfielder. He starts there and moves up the pitch. I'm looking at ability and characteristics and I believe Caqueret could play the role I think ETH wants FDJ to play, which won't be rigid and disciplined.
 

#07

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When you say affordable, what do you mean?

If Brighton can't agree a deal with him because of high demands, how is he going to be someone we can get rid of when needed?
Affordable in that a £50-100k wage isn't much to Man Utd. Provided we don't give him a contract longer than three years, and he plays acceptably for us, we should be able to shift if needed to a Europa League club. It's not the same as spending £50m and hoping it works out. Then trying to find a dope to pay even 50% of the fee if the transfer flops.
 

georgipep

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Affordable in that a £50-100k wage isn't much to Man Utd. Provided we don't give him a contract longer than three years, and he plays acceptably for us, we should be able to shift if needed to a Europa League club. It's not the same as spending £50m and hoping it works out. Then trying to find a dope to pay even 50% of the fee if the transfer flops.
I think if a mid-table PL club like Brighton can't afford his wages, there is almost zero chance we would be able to sell him after giving him almost certainly wages that will be higher than what Brighton could afford.

And if we think someone outside of the PL would be able to get him, unless it is a top team, European clubs are paying less than mid-table PL clubs.
 
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#07

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I think if a mid-table PL club like Brighton can't afford his wages, there is almost zero chance we would be able to sell him after giving him almost certainly wages that will be higher than what Brighton could afford.

And if we think someone outside of the PL would be able to get him, unless it is a top team, European clubs are paying less than mid-table PL clubs.
Brighton are not a Europa League level club. Although, Nottingham Forest are paying Dean Henderson's full wages and Henderson is being paid between £50k-£70k. Frankly, I'm not surprised that Brighton are refusing to match Grillitsch's demands. They already have Caicedo, even though they've lost Bissouma. They have a need but its not a critical need. I would consider our need for a #6 to be greater, since Brighton have one and we don't. We're just trying to make Fred into one.

As I said, provided we give him a relatively short term contract and we don't have to spend years trying to recoup a huge initial outlay, I don't see much downside with doing this deal. If he plays acceptably for us and we want to upgrade in 6 or 12 months, he will be able to go to another team e.g. West Ham when Rice is ultimately sold. Plus, as a free transfer we won't be slapping a £30m or £40m price on him that dissuades people.

I don't see a great deal of downside.
 

LuckyScout78

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Kenneth Taylor from Ajax. 16.May.2002. Really quick and good with the ball. Versatile and can play all the cm positons :

RW - Taylor RCM - Taylor CDM - Taylor LCM - LW


Market value only at 4.5. By the end of next season if he stay with Ajax. Playing regular in the league and champion league. I predict his market value will rise over 15 mill euros. Around 20 mill euros plus minus.

As a central midfield player right now i rate Kenneth Taylor over DVB. And i predict about 2-3 years from now. Kenneth Taylor will be a well known cm and football player.

The boy is really good and quick with the ball and cover a lot of area.


All United youngster are not good enough to help United to get top 4 this season.

Kenneth Taylor is at least a half level over Zidane, Hannibal and Savage. Those youngster bring not good enough squad depth for United in cm to get top. I have watched all United pre season games. They are good. But not good enough to strenght United XI line up. On a regular basic, to achieve top 4. United and Ten Hag need "ready player". As good as the XI, versatile. To boost the squad depth quality.

If United go into the season with those youngster as squad depth. Both in midfield and RW positions. I would get worry.


A upcoming really good and promising Kenneth Taylor from Ajax, at a really low market value. 4,5. Is the right player United and Ten Hag to boost they squad depth quality. In central midfield.
And i can promise Kenneth Taylor can do a better job than both Diallo and Chong as RW. It say a lot about United RW options too. Beside the United cm options.


In the end. " Alternatives for De Jong " = If not De Jong, then whoelse? My best recommendation is Kenneth Taylor from Ajax.

Kenneth Taylor is as good as Ruben Neves and more mobile, more speed and drive in his games.


I can say like this:

Kenneth Taylor, Ajax. MV = 4,5 > Ruben Neves, Wolves. MV = 40 mill. A lot more value for money and a lot lower risk. 4,5 compare to 40 mill euros. Big big gap there.


Sum up and conclusion: If not De Jong this summer. Buy Kenneth Taylor and come back for De Jong next summer. After achieving ch.league spot.

Or buy both De Jong and Kenneth Taylor if possible.

Kenneth Taylor has been at Ajax since he was 10 years old = he knows how to play dutch and Ten Hag football.
Mark mine words. By the end of next season. Kenneth Taylor will rise from 4.5 to around 20 mill euros. Get and buy him this summer when both market value and price is really low. Next summer 3-4 times more.
 

dutchred

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Kenneth Taylor from Ajax. 16.May.2002. Really quick and good with the ball. Versatile and can play all the cm positons :

RW - Taylor RCM - Taylor CDM - Taylor LCM - LW


Market value only at 4.5. By the end of next season if he stay with Ajax. Playing regular in the league and champion league. I predict his market value will rise over 15 mill euros. Around 20 mill euros plus minus.

As a central midfield player right now i rate Kenneth Taylor over DVB. And i predict about 2-3 years from now. Kenneth Taylor will be a well known cm and football player.

The boy is really good and quick with the ball and cover a lot of area.


All United youngster are not good enough to help United to get top 4 this season.

Kenneth Taylor is at least a half level over Zidane, Hannibal and Savage. Those youngster bring not good enough squad depth for United in cm to get top. I have watched all United pre season games. They are good. But not good enough to strenght United XI line up. On a regular basic, to achieve top 4. United and Ten Hag need "ready player". As good as the XI, versatile. To boost the squad depth quality.

If United go into the season with those youngster as squad depth. Both in midfield and RW positions. I would get worry.


A upcoming really good and promising Kenneth Taylor from Ajax, at a really low market value. 4,5. Is the right player United and Ten Hag to boost they squad depth quality. In central midfield.
And i can promise Kenneth Taylor can do a better job than both Diallo and Chong as RW. It say a lot about United RW options too. Beside the United cm options.


In the end. " Alternatives for De Jong " = If not De Jong, then whoelse? My best recommendation is Kenneth Taylor from Ajax.

Kenneth Taylor is as good as Ruben Neves and more mobile, more speed and drive in his games.


I can say like this:

Kenneth Taylor, Ajax. MV = 4,5 > Ruben Neves, Wolves. MV = 40 mill. A lot more value for money and a lot lower risk. 4,5 compare to 40 mill euros. Big big gap there.


Sum up and conclusion: If not De Jong this summer. Buy Kenneth Taylor and come back for De Jong next summer. After achieving ch.league spot.

Or buy both De Jong and Kenneth Taylor if possible.

Kenneth Taylor has been at Ajax since he was 10 years old = he knows how to play dutch and Ten Hag football.
Mark mine words. By the end of next season. Kenneth Taylor will rise from 4.5 to around 20 mill euros. Get and buy him this summer when both market value and price is really low. Next summer 3-4 times more.
He is a talent but Ajax will never sell him now. They are grooming him to be Gravenberg's Replacement
 

georgipep

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Brighton are not a Europa League level club. Although, Nottingham Forest are paying Dean Henderson's full wages and Henderson is being paid between £50k-£70k. Frankly, I'm not surprised that Brighton are refusing to match Grillitsch's demands. They already have Caicedo, even though they've lost Bissouma. They have a need but its not a critical need. I would consider our need for a #6 to be greater, since Brighton have one and we don't. We're just trying to make Fred into one.

As I said, provided we give him a relatively short term contract and we don't have to spend years trying to recoup a huge initial outlay, I don't see much downside with doing this deal. If he plays acceptably for us and we want to upgrade in 6 or 12 months, he will be able to go to another team e.g. West Ham when Rice is ultimately sold. Plus, as a free transfer we won't be slapping a £30m or £40m price on him that dissuades people.

I don't see a great deal of downside.
I would be happy if we could agree 1+1 deals for players like him. Ceiling is kind of set, probably will do a job, with incentive to perform and stay. Players, however, are not huge fans of such deals, unless they want to prove themselves.
 

#07

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I would be happy if we could agree 1+1 deals for players like him. Ceiling is kind of set, probably will do a job, with incentive to perform and stay. Players, however, are not huge fans of such deals, unless they want to prove themselves.
I reckon we could get away with the 2+1 we gave to Bailly more if we pushed our luck. Of course, it can be a double edged sword if the player does really well and you want to keep them. However, in cases of emergency like this, I think it'd be clever.
 

The Irish Connection

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I think he's got the ability (and even the build, agility etc) to be something like Modric if things went well. I'd honestly be far more excited to see us sign him than FDJ.
It’s impressive how illogical we are in transfer windows.
Bissouma and Caqueret or Ruiz for the price of de Jong, done in the first week of June…we’d have been laughing.