Amadou Onana

E-mal

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Don’t want him and for what Braithwaite had cost I am not sure
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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Don't see it with this player, especially for what he'd cost. Feels like settling, for lack of finding someone [much] better.

Don't watch him a lot, mind, and a huge portion of the signing is about potential, so maybe there's a lot more to come from him, but from what I do see, it's a couple of tiers below what I'd hope to see in a signing for our midfield, especially with a technician in it who needs someone par to grow and interactive with on his level. We shouldn't be scrimping in this area of the pitch; dominant midfields decide games and make life easier for their whole team.
I think he really excels at one thing (duel winning) and shows enough technicality that many are looking at his physical build and just projecting it forward with the right development. Because yeah if he gets under the right coach he could become an absolute freak of a DM.

Problem is we need a starter RIGHT NOW at that position, so it's a question of do you take your lumps and let him develop with plenty of minutes but undoubtably some inconsistencies?

I'd be happy with Onana IF we were to phase out Bruno and go to more of a 3 man midfield setup with another true technical 8 with Mainoo, as you'd at least then have players ahead of Onana that can take a lot of the in possession burden on themselves. But if Bruno is still locked in to any midfield we have next year, then we probably need a better true distributor/technician as a DM that can offer more volume as a first phase passer.
 

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I think he really excels at one thing (duel winning) and shows enough technicality that many are looking at his physical build and just projecting it forward with the right development. Because yeah if he gets under the right coach he could become an absolute freak of a DM.

Problem is we need a starter RIGHT NOW at that position, so it's a question of do you take your lumps and let him develop with plenty of minutes but undoubtably some inconsistencies?

I'd be happy with Onana IF we were to phase out Bruno and go to more of a 3 man midfield setup with another true technical 8 with Mainoo, as you'd at least then have players ahead of Onana that can take a lot of the in possession burden on themselves. But if Bruno is still locked in to any midfield we have next year, then we probably need a better true distributor/technician as a DM that can offer more volume as a first phase passer.
Mount is more technical than Bruno, carries the ball better and is better at keeping possession. We would be a team that tries less Hollywood passes, and become a more possession based, which what ETH wants to do.
I think he has his hands tied because of Rashford’s and Bruno’s reputation at the club, thus has to include them and drop his philosophy in order to accomodate them.
 

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Mount is more technical than Bruno, carries the ball better and is better at keeping possession. We would be a team that tries less Hollywood passes, and become a more possession based, which what ETH wants to do.
I think he has his hands tied because of Rashford’s and Bruno’s reputation at the club, thus has to include them and drop his philosophy in order to accomodate them.
He does?
 

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I think he really excels at one thing (duel winning) and shows enough technicality that many are looking at his physical build and just projecting it forward with the right development. Because yeah if he gets under the right coach he could become an absolute freak of a DM.

Problem is we need a starter RIGHT NOW at that position, so it's a question of do you take your lumps and let him develop with plenty of minutes but undoubtably some inconsistencies?

I'd be happy with Onana IF we were to phase out Bruno and go to more of a 3 man midfield setup with another true technical 8 with Mainoo, as you'd at least then have players ahead of Onana that can take a lot of the in possession burden on themselves. But if Bruno is still locked in to any midfield we have next year, then we probably need a better true distributor/technician as a DM that can offer more volume as a first phase passer.
This is what I don't see in him, tbh. I think he'll get marginally better at what he does, but that he's already below the bar of what we should be searching for and then the hope would be for him to just get up to par. Athleticism is all good if it's backed by an above average level of technique (as opposed to outstanding), but my feeling with him is, perhaps he may win some duels and get the ball, but then what? How many times will he then be directly at fault for the next thing that happens which breaks the chain, or prevents it from starting. That's OK at a club looking to be 8th-5th in the table, but if you've real aspirations of not only being in the CL, but a threat in it as well as genuinely contending for the league, I question whether it's enough. Well, better to say: I don't feel it's enough.

My assessment of him is far from extensive, as I say, I don't watch him nearly often enough to be definitive in my thoughts, but from what I do see, I'm left questioning what he doesn't do rather than what he does, and even what he excels at hasn't stood out to me as outstanding. Like for example, AWB. You could look at him at Crystal Palace and say he needs a lot of work on his game, but equally, you could look at him and have no doubt he was an exceptional 1on1 defender with athleticism that stood out from the pack. He didn't look like a finished or even rounded article, but you were assured of at least his qualities being plus points.

At the height and size Onana is, my mind is thinking of two paths, rightly or wrongly: either he's the athletic beast who eats up opponents with his physical prowess, or, he's a tanking juggernaut you have to go around and avoid at all costs, the prerequisite on both sides being a very, very good footballer. To the former, Vieira comes to mind, and the latter, Matic, and in the middle would be Yaya and Moussa Dembele (I know I'm adding a third, but not seeing it as a path because it's the more anomalous freakish, plus both of those guys are shorter than the aforementioned). All of the players mentioned had the technical proficiency I'm thinking of for the role and their size/mass definitely aided them, but it didn't take precedence over their ability. I see Onana as being notches down on all these players in his technique, from what I've seen. It's great that he can cover lots of open space, but that could be an injury or two from not being the case, and then on the technical side, you're left with a player there's no reason or justification to start. Hypotheticals aren't the best way to assess a player, but they're definitely a factor: without his athleticism, would there be any clamour for him at all as a footballer? That's really how I assess anyone we're looking at: footballer first, athlete second, and Onana falls short for me in this sense.

re. your final paragraph - do you believe he could keep up with the technical football of Neves and Mainoo? If they're pinging and triangulating with one and two touch, is Onana going to look out of place or would he be superfluous and seamless? Theoretically, any one of them is supposed to be competent at the #6 in a pseudo role whilst chaining to either one occupying the #8 and the chain should carry without pause or hesitation for the duration of a build-up before they release to the flanks or final third. Would you back Onana to look to hold up on his end without the other two having to carry him or cater to him? I can't see that at all, if I'm honest. I think he'd stick out like a sore thumb. I know a counter point to the above is that he doesn't need to be as technically proficient, with a primary role of ball winner and recycler, but if you look at the best midfields, the DM has a major responsibility and role in the chaining we see, especially so in terms of one or two touch release, which is where those mentioned in the above paragraph as well as the likes of Carrick, Rodri or Busquets all came to the fore. I'm purposely using a myriad of types to the underpin the point of what threads them all is the seamless technical level they carry/carried. I just think it's a fundamental component of playing the role well. Even if someone like Casemiro can be cited for how he did it at Real (passing on to two way superior technicians), Casemiro's technical level was solid and dependable and the compensation there was also in two of the best ball users the game has seen, which, if we get, then sure, the DM can be a bit less.

I'm waffling now, but I think the gist is clear, or at least the tl:dr, is: I have major doubts about this guy as an actual footballer and without his athleticism, he could well be an anchor for us rather than a solid player to still rotate into the team as and when necessary.
 

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This is what I don't see in him, tbh. I think he'll get marginally better at what he does, but that he's already below the bar of what we should be searching for and then the hope would be for him to just get up to par. Athleticism is all good if it's backed by an above average level of technique (as opposed to outstanding), but my feeling with him is, perhaps he may win some duels and get the ball, but then what? How many times will he then be directly at fault for the next thing that happens which breaks the chain, or prevents it from starting. That's OK at a club looking to be 8th-5th in the table, but if you've real aspirations of not only being in the CL, but a threat in it as well as genuinely contending for the league, I question whether it's enough. Well, better to say: I don't feel it's enough.

My assessment of him is far from extensive, as I say, I don't watch him nearly often enough to be definitive in my thoughts, but from what I do see, I'm left questioning what he doesn't do rather than what he does, and even what he excels at hasn't stood out to me as outstanding. Like for example, AWB. You could look at him at Crystal Palace and say he needs a lot of work on his game, but equally, you could look at him and have no doubt he was an exceptional 1on1 defender with athleticism that stood out from the pack. He didn't look like a finished or even rounded article, but you were assured of at least his qualities being plus points.

At the height and size Onana is, my mind is thinking of two paths, rightly or wrongly: either he's the athletic beast who eats up opponents with his physical prowess, or, he's a tanking juggernaut you have to go around and avoid at all costs, the prerequisite on both sides being a very, very good footballer. To the former, Vieira comes to mind, and the latter, Matic, and in the middle would be Yaya and Moussa Dembele (I know I'm adding a third, but not seeing it as a path because it's the more anomalous freakish, plus both of those guys are shorter than the aforementioned). All of the players mentioned had the technical proficiency I'm thinking of for the role and their size/mass definitely aided them, but it didn't take precedence over their ability. I see Onana as being notches down on all these players in his technique, from what I've seen. It's great that he can cover lots of open space, but that could be an injury or two from not being the case, and then on the technical side, you're left with a player there's no reason or justification to start. Hypotheticals aren't the best way to assess a player, but they're definitely a factor: without his athleticism, would there be any clamour for him at all as a footballer? That's really how I assess anyone we're looking at: footballer first, athlete second, and Onana falls short for me in this sense.

re. your final paragraph - do you believe he could keep up with the technical football of Neves and Mainoo? If they're pinging and triangulating with one and two touch, is Onana going to look out of place or would he be superfluous and seamless? Theoretically, any one of them is supposed to be competent at the #6 in a pseudo role whilst chaining to either one occupying the #8 and the chain should carry without pause or hesitation for the duration of a build-up before they release to the flanks or final third. Would you back Onana to look to hold up on his end without the other two having to carry him or cater to him? I can't see that at all, if I'm honest. I think he'd stick out like a sore thumb. I know a counter point to the above is that he doesn't need to be as technically proficient, with a primary role of ball winner and recycler, but if you look at the best midfields, the DM has a major responsibility and role in the chaining we see, especially so in terms of one or two touch release, which is where those mentioned in the above paragraph as well as the likes of Carrick, Rodri or Busquets all came to the fore. I'm purposely using a myriad of types to the underpin the point of what threads them all is the seamless technical level they carry/carried. I just think it's a fundamental component of playing the role well. Even if someone like Casemiro can be cited for how he did it at Real (passing on to two way superior technicians), Casemiro's technical level was solid and dependable and the compensation there was also in two of the best ball users the game has seen, which, if we get, then sure, the DM can be a bit less.

I'm waffling now, but I think the gist is clear, or at least the tl:dr, is: I have major doubts about this guy as an actual footballer and without his athleticism, he could well be an anchor for us rather than a solid player to still rotate into the team as and when necessary.
Yeah I think I rate his technical ability/potential higher than you do which is where we diverge. I think at worst he can be a Casemiro at Madrid type DM where he can do the simple stuff with quality while not needing to have much of the burden in possession put on him. But of course this also depends on how as a club we want to play. If we move towards some possession heavy style then yes I’d assume we go a different direction with more technical/progressive ability from deep. But he’s also not a player I watch and think “yeah all he’ll be able to do is tackle” because he looks comfortable enough on the ball and how he strikes the ball in his passing that I see the potential for improvement in that sense.

But again it’s the rare freakish physical profile that excites me the most. But I completely understand the reservations as well
 

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Yeah I think I rate his technical ability/potential higher than you do which is where we diverge. I think at worst he can be a Casemiro at Madrid type DM where he can do the simple stuff with quality while not needing to have much of the burden in possession put on him. But of course this also depends on how as a club we want to play. If we move towards some possession heavy style then yes I’d assume we go a different direction with more technical/progressive ability from deep. But he’s also not a player I watch and think “yeah all he’ll be able to do is tackle” because he looks comfortable enough on the ball and how he strikes the ball in his passing that I see the potential for improvement in that sense.

But again it’s the rare freakish physical profile that excites me the most. But I completely understand the reservations as well
I haven’t seen a sure thing in him, to my eye, tbh, and like I said previously, what if that physical profile diminishes, are you happy with the footballer there is in lieu of that? What if he doesn’t develop much from where he’s at now, would you be happy with that player here for 5yrs?

DM is such a crucial position on the pitch; I really hope we go for someone who looks special there as a player, for it all it brings to the team.

I admire athleticism, but it’s the most fickle of mistresses for players and the one that can desert them for no fault of their own, so for me, that athleticism has to be backed up by a lot of ability.
 

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We keep hearing about Ashworth's "laptop" :rolleyes: I'd hope he has a few potential DM's in there that would cost a fraction of what Everton will ask for Amadou.
 

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I haven’t seen a sure thing in him, to my eye, tbh, and like I said previously, what if that physical profile diminishes, are you happy with the footballer there is in lieu of that? What if he doesn’t develop much from where he’s at now, would you be happy with that player here for 5yrs?

DM is such a crucial position on the pitch; I really hope we go for someone who looks special there as a player, for it all it brings to the team.

I admire athleticism, but it’s the most fickle of mistresses for players and the one that can desert them for no fault of their own, so for me, that athleticism has to be backed up by a lot of ability.
I mean he's 22 right now so barring some horrid injuries I don't think it's going to diminish any time soon, but as I said before yeah he still needs a good amount of development to become fully well rounded as a top DM.

DM is a crucial position no doubt, but it's also one where no matter what you're going to have to stomach buying players early unless you're ready to spend 100m+ on a "sure thing" (that might not even be a sure thing). Similar to strikers in that aspect for me because there just aren't many who can do it all at either position, and when you find one it's rare a club is willing to sell them.
 

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I mean he's 22 right now so barring some horrid injuries I don't think it's going to diminish any time soon, but as I said before yeah he still needs a good amount of development to become fully well rounded as a top DM.

DM is a crucial position no doubt, but it's also one where no matter what you're going to have to stomach buying players early unless you're ready to spend 100m+ on a "sure thing" (that might not even be a sure thing). Similar to strikers in that aspect for me because there just aren't many who can do it all at either position, and when you find one it's rare a club is willing to sell them.
I just think you're doing the right thing by shooting high initially with the hope even that player goes on to better themselves.

It doesn't have to be any one or two massive injury periods to ruin athleticism - lots of niggles to the muscles can do just as good a job. Back in the day it was joints that were the death knell - a couple of serious joint injuries could ruin a player - but these days, constant muscle problems can do just as good a number.

What we normally see is really talented players robbed of their absurd athletic advantages and dragged down into the more normal realm, but their talent still gets them by - if there's an over reliance on athleticism, there's an element of concern (for me) to what you're left with should that be, say, halved or worse. We've seen players as splendid as Essien reduced to shadows of themselves, for example, and he's a lot more talented than Onana from the outset.

Anyway, removing the doom scenarios, I do still have reservations and at best, he feels like an understudy to the starter, who you can then hope comes along and shines. This is in regard to anything above 5th place aspirations, for me.

Tchouameni, Camavinga, Neves and so forth are like the starting platform and talent pool I hope we're shopping from, who combine athleticism with bags of talent. Personally, I wouldn't scrimp on the position as it's one of, if not the most crucial in a team.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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I just think you're doing the right thing by shooting high initially with the hope even that player goes on to better themselves.

It doesn't have to be any one or two massive injury periods to ruin athleticism - lots of niggles to the muscles can do just as good a job. Back in the day it was joints that were the death knell - a couple of serious joint injuries could ruin a player - but these days, constant muscle problems can do just as good a number.

What we normally see is really talented players robbed of their absurd athletic advantages and dragged down into the more normal realm, but their talent still gets them by - if there's an over reliance on athleticism, there's an element of concern (for me) to what you're left with should that be, say, halved or worse. We've seen players as splendid as Essien reduced to shadows of themselves, for example, and he's a lot more talented than Onana from the outset.

Anyway, removing the doom scenarios, I do still have reservations and at best, he feels like an understudy to the starter, who you can then hope comes along and shines. This is in regard to anything above 5th place aspirations, for me.

Tchouameni, Camavinga, Neves and so forth are like the starting platform and talent pool I hope we're shopping from, who combine athleticism with bags of talent. Personally, I wouldn't scrimp on the position as it's one of, if not the most crucial in a team.
I mean I don’t think either of the first 2 names are even available though otherwise yes those are no brainers. Everything I’ve seen of Neves is that he’d be best served alongside Mainoo instead of holding behind him. They could probably both play in a dual pivot against weaker opposition, but I think we really need a top duel winner at that spot either way.

I personally just think our main priority this summer in market is drastically raising the physical/athletic profile down the spine of the team. It’s one of the biggest current weaknesses, and fixing that can cover other deficiencies until a new manager/tactical vision can begin to take shape (Newcastle last season being a good example of this with how they rocketed into the top 4 conversation by simply being hell to play against with how much they were able to outrun and outfield the opposition while still employing just average technicality at many spots).
 

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I mean I don’t think either of the first 2 names are even available though otherwise yes those are no brainers. Everything I’ve seen of Neves is that he’d be best served alongside Mainoo instead of holding behind him. They could probably both play in a dual pivot against weaker opposition, but I think we really need a top duel winner at that spot either way.

I personally just think our main priority this summer in market is drastically raising the physical/athletic profile down the spine of the team. It’s one of the biggest current weaknesses, and fixing that can cover other deficiencies until a new manager/tactical vision can begin to take shape (Newcastle last season being a good example of this with how they rocketed into the top 4 conversation by simply being hell to play against with how much they were able to outrun and outfield the opposition while still employing just average technicality at many spots).
I wholly agree with the bolded, I just don’t think it should be at all in lieu of technical acumen, which is where this player comes up short, for me.

The two French players and the Portuguese were mentioned in relation to the type of quality and talent I hope we’re scouring for. Scoping for absolute best in class from Ligue 1 or any of the other talent farms out there - tier 1 instead of 2 or 3. Onana feels like a player you go after if those from t1 and t2 turn you down. He may well be what we end up with anyway, but I sure hope we shoot higher initially.
 

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I mean, watching him properly today and he just doesn’t scream expensive recruit to me at all.
 

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I mean, watching him properly today and he just doesn’t scream expensive recruit to me at all.
Nothing to write home about anyway.

One of those players that can look good one day and the next it's like he's won a competition to play.
 

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Nothing to write home about anyway.

One of those players that can look good one day and the next it's like he's won a competition to play.
That’s how it feels to me, which is why I tune in to watch him, forget about it and repeat the process some months later, repeating the process again.
 

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He’s not a 60-70m player which is what Everton would want. These are type of signings we need to avoid, not necessarily a bad player just not good enough for the fee, surely you can find cheaper options.
 

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I just don't see it with this dude. Not bad, nothing special. Either a lateral move in the Premier League, or a team abroad.
 

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Tbf the game was gone and we have three massive home games coming up so I expect he's been saved for those, as with Garner and Coleman.

I said previously though in this thread I think, the one worry I have with him reaching the top is his mentality. I don't think he's ever mentally switched onto Everton, it's always been about that next step and that's a really dangerous mentality to have and stops many players who should be top players being anywhere near one.
 

SAF is the GOAT

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Read the comments in there, All of them from Everton fans wanting Onana gone




 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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I mean, watching him properly today and he just doesn’t scream expensive recruit to me at all.
Yeah was terrible yesterday.

I thought he was brilliant watching him for Belgium on Mainoos full debut though. But it's never a good sign when a club's supporters would be thrilled to see what is supposed to be one of their brightest prospects leave
 

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Tbf the game was gone and we have three massive home games coming up so I expect he's been saved for those, as with Garner and Coleman.

I said previously though in this thread I think, the one worry I have with him reaching the top is his mentality. I don't think he's ever mentally switched onto Everton, it's always been about that next step and that's a really dangerous mentality to have and stops many players who should be top players being anywhere near one.
Yeah was terrible yesterday.

I thought he was brilliant watching him for Belgium on Mainoos full debut though. But it's never a good sign when a club's supporters would be thrilled to see what is supposed to be one of their brightest prospects leave
It probably sounds like I have a total downer on the guy as I don't come in this thread much, and when I do, it's not with positive things to say, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong down the road.

Will say, whenever I watch a player who is a possible suitor for us, I'm really looking intensely at those who have the quality to elevate us far and beyond the level we've been mired in - players who stir the feeling of covetousness when you watch them at their current side, thinking of what they could do for us. I've just not had any stirring of those feelings when watching Onana, in fact, he looks like a player who would keep us exactly where we are to me, so just not a player I'd want us to actively pursue the moment the transfer window opened. In fact, he's the type you go for at the end of the window after all the better options have been purchased and you've nowhere else to turn, and I'm not saying that to be cruel, but rather because I just hope we're aspiring for elite or near elite players, not ones you're not even sure could hang with what we have here right now.
 

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I don’t want him, mostly because he adds nothing to ability to control the game, he is not a specialist midfielder
 

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He'd be an upgrade but nowhere near the level we want to get to