Amateur hour? The 12 key Man Utd figures from execs to coaches who learn on the job

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Ranchero

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The problems at Manchester United right now can to a large extent stem from having key players in the organisation from the board room to the pitch who are either trainees when it comes to their positions or are not football people or both, issues that are continuing to dog the set-up.
In fact from top to bottom in the past ten years we have key people (outside of playing staff) who are essentially learning on the job.
As we know our owners, the Glazers are not football men and women and there are six in the boardroom. Co-chairman Avram Glazer' and directors Joel Glazer, Edward Glazer, Darcie Glazer Kassewitz, and Bryan Glazer are all key boardroom figures in the US NFL side Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Director Kevin Glazer is head of the family US-based real estate firm.
They have no experience of running a football club.

And that is permeating throughout Old Trafford.

Their long-time right hand man at the club Ed Woodward is an accountant and investment banker with commercial nous who became executive vice-chairman and effectively the chief executive who despite little football-side experience has been for years in charge of dealing with agents and managers at the club. We know this.
Now as Mr Woodward departs, Richard Arnold - another accountant who was promoted to group managing director and director of Manchester United PLC on 1 July 2013, assuming control of the club's business operations - will be taking his place. He too has not much football-side experience in dealing with agents or making decisions over managers and is steeped in the commercial side.

On the pitch, Ole's experience at the very top level in the Prem was also zero before he was brought in as interim manager and getting it full time. The only Prem club he managed got relegated. We know this.
You have ex United star Darren Fletcher who has come from nowhere to become the technical director at the club. With what qualifications? He was under-16s coach last year.
There is Kieran McKenna, who was a youth coach, then suddenly becomes the first team coach.
Then there is Michael Carrick who came from nowhere to become a first team coach.
And there's Matt Judge who has been negotiating the transfers and contracts having been head of corporate development, since 2016. He had a 13-year career in investment banking before joining Man Utd. Again, steeped in commercial.
John Murtough, the first ever football director who is responsible for overseeing operations and strategy across all football functions is the man with the most obvious experience to to his key position.
Prior to that he was head of elite performance at the Premier League, following senior academy and player development roles at other clubs.

So if you are wondering why Van De Bench came to the club only for Ole to keep him as a sub, if you wonder why Ole was given a new three years contract in the summer, if you wonder why Paul Pogba is set to leave for a second time on a free after we paid £90m for him, if you wonder why Eric Bailly is given a three year contract in April while remaining sidelined, if you wonder why Jesse Lingard remains benched despite nine goals in 13 games for David Moyes' West Ham side, if you wonder why under Ole two years ago Phil Jones was given a contract to 2023 and an option for another year, if you wonder why Nemanja Matic at the age of 31 was given a three year contract last year.....
 

wattsy7

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New coach Eric Ramsey’s only senior football experience is 8 months as assistant at Shrewsbury.

Another one is Chris Chiang who is football strategy manager with zero experience in football before he came to us.
 

golden_blunder

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I pointed out in another thread how we can start to address this; make Woodward’s replacement VDS not Arnold. A football CEO
 

FreakyJim

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And the weird thing is - so many young coaches and we still play football from 20 years ago.
 

V.O.

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I pointed out in another thread how we can start to address this; make Woodward’s replacement VDS not Arnold. A football CEO
They wouldn't want a football bloke anywhere near that role. They want a corporate wanker they can trust to look after the bottom line, nothing else.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I’ll give the OP rant a 4/10. So many rants to choose from these days. Standards are high. His main beef seems to be that the guys in charge of commercial stuff aren’t footbally enough and that guys in charge of football stuff aren’t… I dunno… he kind of lost me in that section.
 

Deery

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It’s utter madness and it’s showing on the pitch, go as far as to say incompetent to let one of the biggest clubs in the world be run like this.
 

FatTails

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Hard to believe that at some point in time, all these roles were run by two people, Gill and SAF….

…and they left at the same time.
 

lex talionis

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Hard to believe that at some point in time, all these roles were run by two people, Gill and SAF….

…and they left at the same time.
We still haven't recovered from this catastrophic event, salt being rubbed into the open wound by Ferguson appointing Moyes and then Moyes firing the entire coaching staff (before instructing Rio to watch videos of Jagielka to learn how it's done). Has any top tier football club even lost both its chief executive and manager at the same time?
 

Sky1981

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They wouldn't want a football bloke anywhere near that role. They want a corporate wanker they can trust to look after the bottom line, nothing else.
To be fair a proper football ceo cost less. All this yes man ends up wasting 1 billion post fergie. VdS would not have sanctioned 130m on awb and maguire.
 

Sviken

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To be fair a proper football ceo cost less. All this yes man ends up wasting 1 billion post fergie. VdS would not have sanctioned 130m on awb and maguire.
Since when have the Glazers been good businessmen? They hit the jackpot with United and that's it.
 

Abizzz

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Seriously? They're a great businessmen, you might not like them but that's like saying Pep is a lousy manager, he just hit jackpot with Messi
What's the current generation Glazer's done to distinguish themselves? I'm genuinely unaware.
 

0le

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For reference, the coach list:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/mitarbeiter/verein/985

Name​
Role​
Previous Football Experience​
Time at United
(current role)​
Time since first
staff role​
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer​
Manager​
- Molde manager
- Cardiff manager
- Molde manager
- Man Utd U23 Manager
- Man Utd Forward Coach​
28/03/19​
5234 days​
Michael Carrick​
Assistant Manager​
N/A​
01/07/18​
1216 days​
Kieran McKenna​
Assistant Manager​
- Man Utd U18 Manager
- Spurs U18 Manager​
01/07/18​
> 1947 days​
Mike Phelan​
Assistant Manager​
- Central Coast Sporting Director
- Hull City Manager
- Hull City Assistant Manager
- Norwich Assistant Manager
- Man Utd Assistant Manager
- Man Utd Conditioning Coach
- Man Utd U18 Manager
- Stockport U18 Manager
- Blackpool Assistant Manager
- Norwich U18 Manager
- Norwich Assistant Manager​
19/12/18​
9444 days​
Martyn Pert​
Assistant Manager​
- Vancouver Assistant Manager
- Cardiff Assistant Manager
- Bahrain Assistant Manager
- FC Baniyas Assistant Manager
- Coventry City Assistant Manager
- Watford FC Conditioning Coach
- Fulham FC Conditioning Coach
- Watford FC Conditioning Coach​
01/10/19​
6058 days​
Craig Mawson​
Goalkeeping Coach​
- Man Utd Goalkeeping Coach
- Burnley U18 Goalkeeping Coach​
01/07/19​
4139 days​
Mike Clegg​
Conditioning Coach​
- Man Utd Conditioning Coach
- Sunderland AFC Conditioning Coach​
01/07/19​
5507 days​
Jim Lawlor​
Chief Analyst​
- South Africa Scout​
01/07/05​
> 5965 days​
Andrew Meredith​
Chief Analyst​
- FC St. Pauli Match Analyst​
01/09/19​
3042 days​
Eric Ramsay​
Individual Coach​
- Chelsea U23 Assistant Manager
- Shrewsbury Assistant Manager
- Shrewsbury Academy Manager
- Swansea U18 Manager​
13/07/21​
2281 days​
Richard Hawkins​
Athletic Coach​
- Sheff Utd Conditioning Coach
- West Brom Conditioning Coach
- England Conditioning Coach​
01/03/08​
8886 days​
Mark Dempsey​
Coordinator of talent management​
- Man Utd Assistant Manager
- Kongsvinger Manager
- IK Start Manager
- Molde Assistant Manager
- Djurgarden Manager
- Haugesund Manager
- Haugesund Assistant Manager
- Cardiff Assistant Manager
- Molde Assistant Manager
- Tromsø IL Assistant Manager
- Man Utd Youth Coach​
01/01/21​
5599 days​
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
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When I pointed this out around 1-2 years ago I was literally slaughtered in here. I am glad that people are starting to get on the same page
 

Sky1981

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Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
For reference, the coach list:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/mitarbeiter/verein/985

Name​
Role​
Previous Football Experience​
Time at United
(current role)​
Time since first
staff role​
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer​
Manager​
- Molde manager
- Cardiff manager
- Molde manager
- Man Utd U23 Manager
- Man Utd Forward Coach​
28/03/19​
5234 days​
Michael Carrick​
Assistant Manager​
N/A​
01/07/18​
1216 days​
Kieran McKenna​
Assistant Manager​
- Man Utd U18 Manager
- Spurs U18 Manager​
01/07/18​
> 1947 days​
Mike Phelan​
Assistant Manager​
- Central Coast Sporting Director
- Hull City Manager
- Hull City Assistant Manager
- Norwich Assistant Manager
- Man Utd Assistant Manager
- Man Utd Conditioning Coach
- Man Utd U18 Manager
- Stockport U18 Manager
- Blackpool Assistant Manager
- Norwich U18 Manager
- Norwich Assistant Manager​
19/12/18​
9444 days​
Martyn Pert​
Assistant Manager​
- Vancouver Assistant Manager
- Cardiff Assistant Manager
- Bahrain Assistant Manager
- FC Baniyas Assistant Manager
- Coventry City Assistant Manager
- Watford FC Conditioning Coach
- Fulham FC Conditioning Coach
- Watford FC Conditioning Coach​
01/10/19​
6058 days​
Craig Mawson​
Goalkeeping Coach​
- Man Utd Goalkeeping Coach
- Burnley U18 Goalkeeping Coach​
01/07/19​
4139 days​
Mike Clegg​
Conditioning Coach​
- Man Utd Conditioning Coach
- Sunderland AFC Conditioning Coach​
01/07/19​
5507 days​
Jim Lawlor​
Chief Analyst​
- South Africa Scout​
01/07/05​
> 5965 days​
Andrew Meredith​
Chief Analyst​
- FC St. Pauli Match Analyst​
01/09/19​
3042 days​
Eric Ramsay​
Individual Coach​
- Chelsea U23 Assistant Manager
- Shrewsbury Assistant Manager
- Shrewsbury Academy Manager
- Swansea U18 Manager​
13/07/21​
2281 days​
Richard Hawkins​
Athletic Coach​
- Sheff Utd Conditioning Coach
- West Brom Conditioning Coach
- England Conditioning Coach​
01/03/08​
8886 days​
Mark Dempsey​
Coordinator of talent management​
- Man Utd Assistant Manager
- Kongsvinger Manager
- IK Start Manager
- Molde Assistant Manager
- Djurgarden Manager
- Haugesund Manager
- Haugesund Assistant Manager
- Cardiff Assistant Manager
- Molde Assistant Manager
- Tromsø IL Assistant Manager
- Man Utd Youth Coach​
01/01/21​
5599 days​
Thats' quite damning
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
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This thread doesn't exist if we have a Manager/Head Coach who has the experience and know how in how to manage a squad and highly talented youth players, which have been mismanaged by the current Manager IMO.
 

Tincanalley

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Ireland
I’ll give the OP rant a 4/10. So many rants to choose from these days. Standards are high. His main beef seems to be that the guys in charge of commercial stuff aren’t footbally enough and that guys in charge of football stuff aren’t… I dunno… he kind of lost me in that section.
He makes some decent points. The dig at Matic at the end doesn’t help but … 7/10. There is a strong commercial/corporate (as opposed to football) lean in the boardroom. It’s probably fair to say that vibe seeps down.
 

Waynne

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Messages
1,921
The problems at Manchester United right now can to a large extent stem from having key players in the organisation from the board room to the pitch who are either trainees when it comes to their positions or are not football people or both, issues that are continuing to dog the set-up.
In fact from top to bottom in the past ten years we have key people (outside of playing staff) who are essentially learning on the job.
As we know our owners, the Glazers are not football men and women and there are six in the boardroom. Co-chairman Avram Glazer' and directors Joel Glazer, Edward Glazer, Darcie Glazer Kassewitz, and Bryan Glazer are all key boardroom figures in the US NFL side Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Director Kevin Glazer is head of the family US-based real estate firm.
They have no experience of running a football club.

And that is permeating throughout Old Trafford.

Their long-time right hand man at the club Ed Woodward is an accountant and investment banker with commercial nous who became executive vice-chairman and effectively the chief executive who despite little football-side experience has been for years in charge of dealing with agents and managers at the club. We know this.
Now as Mr Woodward departs, Richard Arnold - another accountant who was promoted to group managing director and director of Manchester United PLC on 1 July 2013, assuming control of the club's business operations - will be taking his place. He too has not much football-side experience in dealing with agents or making decisions over managers and is steeped in the commercial side.

On the pitch, Ole's experience at the very top level in the Prem was also zero before he was brought in as interim manager and getting it full time. The only Prem club he managed got relegated. We know this.
You have ex United star Darren Fletcher who has come from nowhere to become the technical director at the club. With what qualifications? He was under-16s coach last year.
There is Kieran McKenna, who was a youth coach, then suddenly becomes the first team coach.
Then there is Michael Carrick who came from nowhere to become a first team coach.
And there's Matt Judge who has been negotiating the transfers and contracts having been head of corporate development, since 2016. He had a 13-year career in investment banking before joining Man Utd. Again, steeped in commercial.

John Murtough, the first ever football director who is responsible for overseeing operations and strategy across all football functions is the man with the most obvious experience to to his key position.
Prior to that he was head of elite performance at the Premier League, following senior academy and player development roles at other clubs.

So if you are wondering why Van De Bench came to the club only for Ole to keep him as a sub, if you wonder why Ole was given a new three years contract in the summer, if you wonder why Paul Pogba is set to leave for a second time on a free after we paid £90m for him, if you wonder why Eric Bailly is given a three year contract in April while remaining sidelined, if you wonder why Jesse Lingard remains benched despite nine goals in 13 games for David Moyes' West Ham side, if you wonder why under Ole two years ago Phil Jones was given a contract to 2023 and an option for another year, if you wonder why Nemanja Matic at the age of 31 was given a three year contract last year.....
Said this before in previous post. Where the feck did Darren Fletcher come from out of nowhere to such an important role in the club. I still don't understand this appointment.

Who is handing out these appointments to these people. I don't care for Fletcher, Carrick or McKenna. I don' want either of them in charge of this club. They are not the best possible people in these key positions for a club like United.
They are the past just like SAF.
I also want SAF to step away from this club. He's had his time and should have no influence on appointing new managers. He was the best manager in an era of the premier league where football scene was vastly different.
We're the only club it seems who's stuck in the past looking to employ people who understand the United Way. Its bullshit.
You either you change with the times or you get rolled over.
 

tjb

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This thread doesn't exist if we have a Manager/Head Coach who has the experience and know how in how to manage a squad and highly talented youth players, which have been mismanaged by the current Manager IMO.
TBH his point on Arnold should not count. 2013 is almost 10 years of experience, plus how much experience did Martin edwards or Peter Kenyon have on the football side. David Gill was a finance director. Don't see the relevance, particularly as we now have football directors at the club
 

Hal9000

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Pretty sure this was an article in the athletic the other day,?
 

Denis79

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When I pointed this out around 1-2 years ago I was literally slaughtered in here. I am glad that people are starting to get on the same page
Was about to write a similar post. Way to many people act like all that is needed to be a good manager at United is to share it's historical values. Because Ole embodies "The United way" somehow he will become just as successful as SAF, if he's given more time, really!? Like the OP wrote and like Carragher said, You can't come to United at a important position to learn your job.
 

Adnan

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TBH his point on Arnold should not count. 2013 is almost 10 years of experience, plus how much experience did Martin edwards or Peter Kenyon have on the football side. David Gill was a finance director. Don't see the relevance, particularly as we now have football directors at the club
I agree with you mate. We have talent in abundance from the youth to the first team and that talent needs a man who will guide and teach/coach/develop them to a high standard. We can blame the board for lots of things but we can't blame them if the Manager at first team level isn't making best use of the tools that have been provided for him. I'd also be very critical if I thought there wasn't the level of talent at the club that can propel us to to challenge for major honours. But the talent is there and there's also talent at youth level which can help a new Manager build a team and system without even delving into the transfer market. And the credit for the improvement in our youth goes to the likes of Marcel Bout and John Murtough.

I honestly believe if they (the club) bring in the right Head Coach which suits the football they've spoken about playing, and he also has the capability to develop the likes of Elanga, Hannibal, Amad, Shoretire, Laird etc. We'll go very close to winning the league at the very least.
 
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amolbhatia50k

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Agree.

Even moreso when you look at experience and accomplishments of individuals in relation to modern football. In our case, our manager doesn't really have a modern bone in his body on a tactical front and is anyway simply not in the higher echelons of management. Our coaches are all young and upcoming chaps. Mike Phelan the one experienced individual is from by gone era with again no actual experience of success I the modern game.

On the executive front again we have people like Fletcher who have no accomplishments to their name and Sir Alex who might be the greatest ever football manager but is a football man of the 90s and 00s.

So in essence we are a football club that's tightly clinging on to the past while trying to learn the present. That for a club of our stature is astoundingly unprofessional.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I agree with you mate. We have talent in abundance from the youth to the first team and that talent needs a man who will guide and teach/coach/develop them to a high standard. We can blame the board for lots of things but we can't blame them if the Manager at first team level isn't making best use of the tools that have been provided for him. I'd also be very critical if I thought there wasn't the level of talent at the club that can propel us to to challenge for major honours. But the talent is there and there's also talent at youth level which can help a new Manager build a team and system without even delving into the transfer market. And the credit for the improvement in our youth goes to the likes of Marcel Bout and John Murtough.

I honestly believe if they (the club) bring in the right Head Coach which suits the football they've spoken about playing, and he also has the capability to develop the likes of Elanga, Hannibal, Amad, Shoretire, Laird etc. We'll go very close to winning the league at the very least.
Yup this is the biggest change at this football club that if get right can have a cascading impact imo. If you get a top class coach in who modernises the coaching side of this football club suddenly you'll have the manager and his coaching staff who all get the game as it is (and not how it was 20 years back). We might still lack executive quality when it comes to the football decisions (contracts, managerial decisions etc) but at least the managerial staff would be strong and youd hope that it has a knock on effect on thoughts and direction within the football club.

Of course the hard part is for this board to pick a top coach given their track record. One can only hope that they stumble over the right choice.
 

Adnan

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Yup this is the biggest change at this football club that if get right can have a cascading impact imo. If you get a top class coach in who modernises the coaching side of this football club suddenly you'll have the manager and his coaching staff who all get the game as it is (and not how it was 20 years back). We might still lack executive quality when it comes to the football decisions (contracts, managerial decisions etc) but at least the managerial staff would be strong and youd hope that it has a knock on effect on thoughts and direction within the football club.

Of course the hard part is for this board to pick a top coach given their track record. One can only hope that they stumble over the right choice.
I agree mate.

I've always said the Head Coach is the most important person on the football side of the club. And having a Head Coach who has the experience and know how to understand the modern game and manage a squad of players to a high level is something we're missing. And I've also felt the current coaching team's inexperience has meant that there's been hesitation in who they want to keep and who they want gone which has resulted in us having a bloated squad. If we had someone experienced and strong minded as Head Coach, I don't believe players who are now into the final year of their contracts would be at the club.

I believe if we get a Coach who's decisive in what he wants, then things will start to fall into place. It's exactly what happened at Liverpool with their board also making stupid decisions which caused a division between the transfer committee and the Manager, Rodgers. And when Klopp arrived, he embraced Michael Edwards and the recruitment staff and everything else is history because the recruitment department and Klopp were all on the same page unlike the previous Manager. And it was easy for Klopp because he understood that he needed structural support which he was accustomed to at his previous club BvB.
 
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hobbers

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Eric Ramsey is probably the most amusing one. Our set piece mastermind posing like a peacock trying to get into every camera shot with the subs.

The club labelled him as a highly rated young coach poached from Chelsea. Truth is he's a nobody, whose coaching experience is Swansea U18s, Shrewsbury U18s and Chelsea U23s, according to his own linkedin page. No fecking wonder our defending has gone to shit.

McKenna was a highly rated youth coach. We put him straight into leading all coaching and training sessions for the biggest club in the world. He should be assisting someone who knows what the feck they're doing.
 

tjb

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I agree with you mate. We have talent in abundance from the youth to the first team and that talent needs a man who will guide and teach/coach/develop them to a high standard. We can blame the board for lots of things but we can't blame them if the Manager at first team level isn't making best use of the tools that have been provided for him. I'd also be very critical if I thought there wasn't the level of talent at the club that can propel us to to challenge for major honours. But the talent is there and there's also talent at youth level which can help a new Manager build a team and system without even delving into the transfer market. And the credit for the improvement in our youth goes to the likes of Marcel Bout and John Murtough.

I honestly believe if they (the club) bring in the right Head Coach which suits the football they've spoken about playing, and he also has the capability to develop the likes of Elanga, Hannibal, Amad, Shoretire, Laird etc. We'll go very close to winning the league at the very least.
The only area I would blame the board for is allowing the simplistic idea of the United way to cloud their judgement in how they operate. For that reason, they sack managers far too slowly and give them too much power and respect. Fergie had years to cultivate and manage the teams. He knew the club in and out, so fully understood what was needed. He also cared about the finances and profile of the club, which is why he stayed for as long as he did without really breaking our wage structure or having too many major fallouts with players. That is very rare to have for such a long period of time. These days, clubs have teams who support the manager on the cultural, financial and even player development side of things, so a manager does not need to do all those things. Mourinho and LVG coming in taught us how important that structure was, because even the most successful managers may not have an eye for the business side of the club like Fergie did.

The United way for me was never in the way we played, but in the professionalism, tradition( gameday suits, etc) and giving youth a chance. We have never really been a superstar club, we've always liked to have hardworking players who have the individual skills to work as a part of the unit. It's never been about having a British manager or having a former player there. All we need is for the manager to have a full understanding what the club represents and hence behave with a professionalism that keeps the club away from negative headlines. Mourinho and LVG did not understand this. It's the one thing Ole understood.

In saying all this, United have made a mistake of profiling a manager similar in nationality or knowledge of the club to Sir Alex without realizing what made Sir Alex so special. He understood the game of football, had top man management skills, knew how to delegate and was actually a good tactician. In essence, he knew how to get players to play the way he wanted them to play and had previous evidence of this from his time at Aberdeen. He was a modern manager in his time and was a visionary for many aspects of the game. Yet we have not actually hired a manager with the knowledge of how to implement tactics in todays game. Moyes didn't really have a style at Everton and had been trying and failing to implement one. Mourinho struggled to adapt to both modern tactics, but also modern man management, which is clear in his meltdown. We were looking at LVG's Ajax, but failed to understand that he was a manager that had not really proven anything in the twenty years after. He had no real evidence of implementing a style in the modern game; his Bayern team were not really that impressive and eventually he was axed out of that team for falling to a vastly inferior Dortmund team. We haven't actually hired a manager who had made a name for themselves in the 2010's like the Conte's, Simeone's, Klopp's, Tuchel's, Zidane's or Guardiola's had or even ones that had succesfully implemented playing styles that have impressed like Pochettino, Rodger, Sarri, Luis Enrique etc. Even Arsenal, in hiring Unai Emery, at least attempted to do something of the sort. For me, that has been our biggest failing
 

devilish

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Was about to write a similar post. Way to many people act like all that is needed to be a good manager at United is to share it's historical values. Because Ole embodies "The United way" somehow he will become just as successful as SAF, if he's given more time, really!? Like the OP wrote and like Carragher said, You can't come to United at a important position to learn your job.
It's so easy to get a job with United these days and that is felt at every level from DOF/technical director right to coaching staff. It seems that we are stuck into an incompetent system that is terrified of brining competent staff out of fear that it ends up exposing everyone. No wonder why Ole is still in the job despite being humiliated at OT by Liverpool
 

Adnan

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The only area I would blame the board for is allowing the simplistic idea of the United way to cloud their judgement in how they operate. For that reason, they sack managers far too slowly and give them too much power and respect. Fergie had years to cultivate and manage the teams. He knew the club in and out, so fully understood what was needed. He also cared about the finances and profile of the club, which is why he stayed for as long as he did without really breaking our wage structure or having too many major fallouts with players. That is very rare to have for such a long period of time. These days, clubs have teams who support the manager on the cultural, financial and even player development side of things, so a manager does not need to do all those things. Mourinho and LVG coming in taught us how important that structure was, because even the most successful managers may not have an eye for the business side of the club like Fergie did.

The United way for me was never in the way we played, but in the professionalism, tradition( gameday suits, etc) and giving youth a chance. We have never really been a superstar club, we've always liked to have hardworking players who have the individual skills to work as a part of the unit. It's never been about having a British manager or having a former player there. All we need is for the manager to have a full understanding what the club represents and hence behave with a professionalism that keeps the club away from negative headlines. Mourinho and LVG did not understand this. It's the one thing Ole understood.

In saying all this, United have made a mistake of profiling a manager similar in nationality or knowledge of the club to Sir Alex without realizing what made Sir Alex so special. He understood the game of football, had top man management skills, knew how to delegate and was actually a good tactician. In essence, he knew how to get players to play the way he wanted them to play and had previous evidence of this from his time at Aberdeen. He was a modern manager in his time and was a visionary for many aspects of the game. Yet we have not actually hired a manager with the knowledge of how to implement tactics in todays game. Moyes didn't really have a style at Everton and had been trying and failing to implement one. Mourinho struggled to adapt to both modern tactics, but also modern man management, which is clear in his meltdown. We were looking at LVG's Ajax, but failed to understand that he was a manager that had not really proven anything in the twenty years after. He had no real evidence of implementing a style in the modern game; his Bayern team were not really that impressive and eventually he was axed out of that team for falling to a vastly inferior Dortmund team. We haven't actually hired a manager who had made a name for themselves in the 2010's like the Conte's, Simeone's, Klopp's, Tuchel's, Zidane's or Guardiola's had or even ones that had succesfully implemented playing styles that have impressed like Pochettino, Rodger, Sarri, Luis Enrique etc. Even Arsenal, in hiring Unai Emery, at least attempted to do something of the sort. For me, that has been our biggest failing
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But for me the biggest mistake this club made was not to create the mechanisms for the football side to evolve in the modern game post Fergie. We got left behind when it comes to having a scouting network and data science department due to the lack of foresight at the club when it comes modernisation. So Fergie at the tail end of his reign as Manager, had his brother and Jim Lawlor as the only two full time scouts and Derek Langley in a HoR role overseeing the academy that was in a dreadful state when compared to our rivals due to the neglect/lack of funding, under the Glazers and Gill. And when Fergie retired our flimsy football structure collapsed with him because our scouting and data science departments were almost non existent which should've been the support for a new man ((Moyes) to help him make decisions more efficiently. Moyes reportedly asked where he could tap into data bases to get information on potential new recruits and was told everything was stored in Jim Lawlor's head. And it's the Glazers and Gill who allowed this to happen and their incompetence shouldn't be overlooked.

I agree with you regarding Managers and Head Coaches but feel that Van Gaal could've done better if he had structural support, but at that time John Murtough was in the process of revamping the whole structure from the academy, scouting, data science department which created conditions for a extra 80 to 100 staff to work in the aforementioned departments. Murtough did the same at Everton and various other clubs where he was even hired by the billionaire Mohamed al Fayed, at Fulham in 2004, where he revamped and modernised the structure at the club when it comes to the football side. so Van Gaal was left to his own devices and made a mess of the recruitment.

If we look at the list of Liverpool Managers below in the 30 years between Dalglish winning the league and Klopp winning it. What we see is a pattern of Managers who were just not good enough for the level Liverpool aspired to be at. Benitez and Houllier were successful but neither Manager was on the same level as Klopp when it comes to playing high tempo football. So the point is, when Liverpool finally signed the Manager who was aligned with modern concepts and had proven himself in the UCL, they broke their stalemate and won the league.

Graeme Souness
Roy Evans
Roy Evans/Gerard Houllier
Gerard Houllier
Rafa Benitez
Roy Hodgson
Kenny Dalglish
Brendan Rodgers
Jurgen Klopp - high pressure, fast transition, high intensity = Champions
 

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
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Eric Ramsey is probably the most amusing one. Our set piece mastermind posing like a peacock trying to get into every camera shot with the subs.

The club labelled him as a highly rated young coach poached from Chelsea. Truth is he's a nobody, whose coaching experience is Swansea U18s, Shrewsbury U18s and Chelsea U23s, according to his own linkedin page. No fecking wonder our defending has gone to shit.

McKenna was a highly rated youth coach. We put him straight into leading all coaching and training sessions for the biggest club in the world. He should be assisting someone who knows what the feck they're doing.
By whom? Butt? Ole?

Rated highly by our own staff is not a great testament.
 

UpWithRivers

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Messages
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The board of directors are usually high level business people right? Its rare to find people that have a background in being a CEO in a large multi national organization and have a football background. I presume most of all clubs board room members are business people and not footballers. I mean as much as the value of ex footballers football knowledge they couldn't run a club as large as United for sht. You need a background in Finance etc.

So how does it really work? They must be reliant on other staff to guide them. So I doubt the board of directors are sitting around and saying hey lets get that lad VDB in he looks awesome. It will be more the case of Ole, Phelan, Carrick etc sitting down and writing a list of players that they want. Then they sit with the recruitment team and hash out options. Then the negotiation teams and finance team etc move in and then when its all about done they go to the board of directors and say we want to sign this guy at 40 mill wages are x. Then the board members sign off. They probably get involved very little in the overall process. The majority of their time is dealing with a million business decisions.

So if this is how it works the question is who are the real influencers in the club? Woodward? Sir Alex? Who is making the big decisions. Like who's bright idea was it that Fletcher should be DOF or whatever that role he should be. Ole? I think there are major influencers within the club and its hard to get them out. We need mass firings. Get rid of them all. But how easy will that be. They are loved within the club by everyone. What would happen if the board start axing all these people. There would be riots outside Old Trafford thats what. So we are stuck with people that are living in the past. The whole United way. The hiring of ex players. The hiring of English players. All of it. It runs through the club like a disease. Its like how Liverpool were until Klopp came in. We need a fresh start from scratch.
 

Revaulx

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Yup this is the biggest change at this football club that if get right can have a cascading impact imo. If you get a top class coach in who modernises the coaching side of this football club suddenly you'll have the manager and his coaching staff who all get the game as it is (and not how it was 20 years back). We might still lack executive quality when it comes to the football decisions (contracts, managerial decisions etc) but at least the managerial staff would be strong and youd hope that it has a knock on effect on thoughts and direction within the football club.

Of course the hard part is for this board to pick a top coach given their track record. One can only hope that they stumble over the right choice.
Let’s hope the new manager is given the opportunity to do that.

McCarrick seem to be Ed Woodward pets. They were in post when Ole arrived. LvG had Giggs foisted on him.

I’m not trying to deflect blame from Ole, who is clearly out of his depth. I’m just not sure how much say he has over “his” staff. His main value to Ed and the Glazers seems to be as a front man.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Eric Ramsey is probably the most amusing one. Our set piece mastermind posing like a peacock trying to get into every camera shot with the subs.

The club labelled him as a highly rated young coach poached from Chelsea. Truth is he's a nobody, whose coaching experience is Swansea U18s, Shrewsbury U18s and Chelsea U23s, according to his own linkedin page. No fecking wonder our defending has gone to shit.

McKenna was a highly rated youth coach. We put him straight into leading all coaching and training sessions for the biggest club in the world. He should be assisting someone who knows what the feck they're doing.

Exactly, that is where is our real problem, the 3 coaches who play an important role in coaching our 1st team are total novices, Carrick, McKenna, & Ramsey, Ole himself, though experienced in terms of years, lacks the pedigree to manage a club the size of MUFC, the only one with good experience is Mike Phelan, who was SAF's Assistant from 2008 to 2013, and started his coaching career in 2000 with MUFC.

I believe the overall football structure is already in place, we have a very experienced recruitment team led by Steve Brown, and it includes Marcel Bout, & Jim Lawler. John Murtough does have good experiences, and Darren Fletcher who is also a novice as a technical director, will work within a structure under Murtough, which has good experience, we even have good Academy staff like Nick Cox & Justin Cochrane.

The problem is basically with the first team coaches who are extremely inexperienced to coach the team, look at Pep's coaches, or Klopp's, or Tuchel's, they have experience to manage at the top level.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,737
Exactly, that is where is our real problem, the 3 coaches who play an important role in coaching our 1st team are total novices, Carrick, McKenna, & Ramsey, Ole himself, though experienced in terms of years, lacks the pedigree to manage a club the size of MUFC, the only one with good experience is Mike Phelan, who was SAF's Assistant from 2008 to 2013, and started his coaching career in 2000 with MUFC.

I believe the overall football structure is already in place, we have a very experienced recruitment team led by Steve Brown, and it includes Marcel Bout, & Jim Lawler. John Murtough does have good experiences, and Darren Fletcher who is also a novice as a technical director, will work within a structure under Murtough, which has good experience, we even have good Academy staff like Nick Cox & Justin Cochrane.

The problem is basically with the first team coaches who are extremely inexperienced to coach the team, look at Pep's coaches, or Klopp's, or Tuchel's, they have experience to manage at the top level.
what experience does John Murtough has as a DOF?
 

Trezeguet17

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Rangnick would demand so much power but I am totally sure it would be worth it. What does the club have to lose right now?
 

Adnan

Talent Spotter
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Exactly, that is where is our real problem, the 3 coaches who play an important role in coaching our 1st team are total novices, Carrick, McKenna, & Ramsey, Ole himself, though experienced in terms of years, lacks the pedigree to manage a club the size of MUFC, the only one with good experience is Mike Phelan, who was SAF's Assistant from 2008 to 2013, and started his coaching career in 2000 with MUFC.

I believe the overall football structure is already in place, we have a very experienced recruitment team led by Steve Brown, and it includes Marcel Bout, & Jim Lawler. John Murtough does have good experiences, and Darren Fletcher who is also a novice as a technical director, will work within a structure under Murtough, which has good experience, we even have good Academy staff like Nick Cox & Justin Cochrane.

The problem is basically with the first team coaches who are extremely inexperienced to coach the team, look at Pep's coaches, or Klopp's, or Tuchel's, they have experience to manage at the top level.
Good post.

It's not about how much experience The DoF has, it's about how strong the recruitment team is when it comes to understanding football and the team as a whole is very strong. Michael Edwards at Liverpool is a great example.
 
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