And while we're at it...

[rcoobc]

And while we're at it... all this talk of respect for the pyramid and respect for the beautiful game. But if there is one change that needs to be made to European football, it surely is that the FA Cup needs a bigger prize on the end of it.

Because the FA Cup has been treated horribly for the last twenty years. It's not financially valuable to win, it's been shuffled about and trodden on, and it lacks a proper European prize ever since the Champions League expanded and started stealing teams from the Cup Winners Cup.

Maybe it can't have a complete Champions League place - it is a cup competition after all. But maybe it could have a Champions League play-off place. Give both the 4th place Prem team and the FA Cup winners a play-off place so you don't need to "take" any new places from other countries. (One half place + one half place = one whole place).

And do the Champions League play-off at the end of the season rather than the start of the next (which is boring). Either the team finishing 4th plays the FA Cup winner for the final spot, or they both play other European teams for spots, but either way, give the FA Cup a proper prize.

If a team wins the FA Cup that has already qualified for the Champions League, then 4th because a complete place.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I think FA cup is cheapened because of the league cup. It makes no sense to have two knock out competitions featuring the same teams.

 

[duffer]

I think FA cup is cheapened because of the league cup. It makes no sense to have two knock out competitions featuring the same teams.

The League cup is 92 teams.

The FA Cup is 736 teams.

I'm not an accountant but I think those are different numbers.

 

[rcoobc]

I think FA cup is cheapened because of the league cup. It makes no sense to have two knock out competitions featuring the same teams.

That wasn't the case for the first 40 years of the Leagues Cup's existence

 

[SER19]

I think FA cup is cheapened because of the league cup. It makes no sense to have two knock out competitions featuring the same teams.

Prem teams shouldn't be in league Cup i think. Man city's reserves have won it 5 from 7 so far. Pointless competition in current format

 

[Reditus]

I think FA cup is cheapened because of the league cup. It makes no sense to have two knock out competitions featuring the same teams.

The league cup is over 60 years old.

Fa cup is lesser now purely because of the PL importance and the CL extra games

 

[Pink Moon]

And while we're at it... all this talk of respect for the pyramid and respect for the beautiful game. But if there is one change that needs to be made to European football, it surely is that the FA Cup needs a bigger prize on the end of it.

Because the FA Cup has been treated horrible for the last twenty years. It's not financially valuable to win, it's been shuffled about and trodden on, and it lacks a proper European prize ever since the Champions League expanded and started stealing teams from the Cup Winners Cup.

Maybe it can't have a complete Champions League place - it is a small cup competition after all. But maybe it could have a Champions League play-off place. Give both the 4th place Prem team and the FA Cup winners a play-off place so you don't need to "take" any new places from other countries. (One half place + one half place = one whole place).

And do the Champions League play-off at the end of the season rather than the start of the next (which is boring). Either the team finishing 4th plays the FA Cup winner for the final spot, or they both play other European teams for spots, but either way, give the FA Cup a proper prize.

If a team wins the FA Cup that has already qualified for the Champions League, then 4th because a complete place.

Ridiculous argument IMO.

You're suggesting someone that wins a domestic cup competition gets at least a play off place for the CL while actual champions of their leagues need to play 4 qualifiers.

 

[duffer]

Prem teams shouldn't be in league Cup i think. Man city's reserves have won it 5 from 7 so far. Pointless competition in current format

Take the prem sides out of the league cup and they lose their sponsors, prize money and TV coverage. People would give less of a shit than they do now.

 

[Reditus]

Maybe just me, but I don’t mind the league cup. Leave it alone

 

[duffer]

Maybe just me, but I don’t mind the league cup. Leave it alone

Yep. If teams don't want the extra fixtures, play their kids.

 

[Reditus]

Edit: never mind I didnt read entire post

 

[FireballXL5]

The FA cheapening something? How dare you criticise the Emirates FA Cup!

 

[Zen86]

CL spots for the winners of the FA Cup and League Cup. It would make both competitions infinitely more interesting as teams will want to win it rather than treating it as a mild inconvenience. It would also potentially help to better distribute income beyond the big 6.

 

[SirFergie]

Bring back the Cup Winners Cup, reward success and ensure that Clubs can earn the right to be in Europe through winning trophies, not through finishing nowhere in their national leagues. Two of United's best European nights have been in the Cup Winners Cup in '84 and '91.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

The League cup is 92 teams.

The FA Cup is 736 teams.

I'm not an accountant but I think those are different numbers.

It almost always comes down to the PL teams by the quarter final stage of the FA cup and the league cup, barring a cinderella run here and there. Which is why it feels like the same competition done twice. It loses the appeal of knock-out competition if there are two of them.

 

[Offside]

They should definitely make the FA Cup a CL spot. People always say “well it would be ridiculous if Wigan had got in in 2013” but that season 7th placed Liverpool went out to Oldham with a weakened team. Would they have if a CL spot was up for grabs? Probably not.

And even if a small club wins the cup and gets into the CL it would be fairytale stuff that people love and change a club’s fortunes forever, same as when Leicester won the PL.

 

[SER19]

Take the prem sides out of the league cup and they lose their sponsors, prize money and TV coverage. People would give less of a shit than they do now.

Better for the other clubs but yeah it's all about money. Maybe last seasons top 4 stays out or something. Pretty grim seeing bored subs win it so often

 

[2cents]

Maybe just me, but I don’t mind the league cup. Leave it alone

I think it’s been a more exciting competition than the FA Cup for years now.

 

[stevoc]

Ridiculous argument IMO.

You're suggesting someone that wins a domestic cup competition gets at least a play off place for the CL while actual champions of their leagues need to play 4 qualifiers.

Is it any less ridiculous than a team finishing 6th or 8th yet still getting a wild card CL invite due to their co-efficient?

Because thats happening in the next few years..

 

[Ludens the Red]

And while we're at it... all this talk of respect for the pyramid and respect for the beautiful game. But if there is one change that needs to be made to European football, it surely is that the FA Cup needs a bigger prize on the end of it.

Because the FA Cup has been treated horrible for the last twenty years. It's not financially valuable to win, it's been shuffled about and trodden on, and it lacks a proper European prize ever since the Champions League expanded and started stealing teams from the Cup Winners Cup.

Maybe it can't have a complete Champions League place - it is a small cup competition after all. But maybe it could have a Champions League play-off place. Give both the 4th place Prem team and the FA Cup winners a play-off place so you don't need to "take" any new places from other countries. (One half place + one half place = one whole place).

And do the Champions League play-off at the end of the season rather than the start of the next (which is boring). Either the team finishing 4th plays the FA Cup winner for the final spot, or they both play other European teams for spots, but either way, give the FA Cup a proper prize.

If a team wins the FA Cup that has already qualified for the Champions League, then 4th because a complete place.

The problem with all of this is that the FA Cup is basically won every season by Chelsea who will finish in the top 4.

 

[rcoobc]

Ridiculous argument IMO.

You're suggesting someone that wins a domestic cup competition gets at least a play off place for the CL while actual champions of their leagues need to play 4 qualifiers.

Well thats a load of horse manure. Complete false dilemma and fallacy of appeal to extremes. I've said nothing at all about the deservedness or otherwise off the lower ranked leagues. I've suggested taking half a spot from the team finishing 4th and giving it to the FA Cup winner.

But whilst we're talking about it, what League Champions have to play four qualifiers?

England
Spain
Italy
Germany
France
Portugal
Netherlands
Russia
and Belgium leagues

all have automatic qualification places. It's only when you get to Scotland, Ukraine, Turkey, Denmark, Cyprus, etc that you start getting into qualification, and they still don't have to play four qualifiers. Some of those absolutely should get an automatic spot, but the FA Cup winners could well be deserving of the same price as the Cypriot League Winners.

Actually - right now - it's arguable that the FA Cup has a bigger prize on it that the Cypriot League winner... The FA Cup winner goes straight into the Europa League group stage, the Cypriot League winner may fail to qualify for that.

 

[bsCallout]

A play off place would be a great idea for the cup, maybe for all of Europes major leagues, in their equivalent cups. Imagine the stories that could create.

Perhaps it's time we invited the Scottish clubs into the FA Cup too, that would add some nice spice.

Anything to relegate the league cup to academy players only would be great too.

 

[duffer]

Better for the other clubs but yeah it's all about money. Maybe last seasons top 4 stays out or something. Pretty grim seeing bored subs win it so often

There already is the EFL Trophy (No Prem or Championships sides allowed) which pretty much no fan gives a shit about, other than a nice day out at Wembley for the finalists.

 

[Withnail]

Ridiculous argument IMO.

You're suggesting someone that wins a domestic cup competition gets at least a play off place for the CL while actual champions of their leagues need to play 4 qualifiers.

That's a play-off for the fourth CL place that already goes to a team who didn't win the league so your argument makes little sense.

 

[Pink Moon]

Well thats a load of horse manure. Complete false dilemma and fallacy of appeal to extremes. I've said nothing at all about the deservedness or otherwise off the lower ranked leagues. I've suggested taking half a spot from the team finishing 4th and giving it to the FA Cup winner.

But whilst we're talking about it, what League Champions have to play four qualifiers?

England
Spain
Italy
Germany
France
Portugal
Netherlands
Russia
and Belgium leagues

all have automatic qualification places. It's only when you get to Scotland, Ukraine, Turkey, Denmark, Cyprus, etc that you start getting into qualification, and they still don't have to play four qualifiers. Some of those absolutely should get an automatic spot, but the FA Cup winners could well be deserving of the same price as the Cypriot League Winners.

Actually - right now - it's arguable that the FA Cup has a bigger prize on it that the Cypriot League winner... The FA Cup winner goes straight into the Europa League group stage, the Cypriot League winner may fail to qualify for that.

Arrogant bullshit.

 

[rcoobc]

The problem with all of this is that the FA Cup is basically won every season by Chelsea who will finish in the top 4.

Is this not because the Premier League clubs don't take it seriously (unless they have a big squad).

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...s-devaluing-changes-stats-facts-a9305666.html

 

[Oldyella]

Prem teams shouldn't be in league Cup i think. Man city's reserves have won it 5 from 7 so far. Pointless competition in current format

Any team who's qualified for Europe should lose their spot. Sure they wouldn't complain either.

 

[Pink Moon]

That's a play-off for the fourth CL place that already goes to a team who didn't win the league so your argument makes little sense.

You think it's nonsensical to be against winners of a domestic cup competition being given a greater reward than winners of a league?

Cool.

 

[rcoobc]

Arrogant bullshit.

All I'm saying is that, if England has to have 4 spots, it should be 3.5 for the League, 0.5 for the Cup

 

[RUCK4444]

Who cares though, I can't wait for this Super League to get going.

 

[Pink Moon]

All I'm saying is that, if England has to have 4 spots, it should be 3.5 for the League, 0.5 for the Cup

I do get that but my point is, imagine someone has a crazy fairytale run a la Wigan years ago, they are then one game away from the CL group stages while champions of leagues you mentioned above have to navigate multiple qualifiers. It's not fair.

 

[rcoobc]

Bring back the Cup Winners Cup, reward success and ensure that Clubs can earn the right to be in Europe through winning trophies, not through finishing nowhere in their national leagues. Two of United's best European nights have been in the Cup Winners Cup in '84 and '91.

I'd love that, but are you saying to run the CWC alongside the current CL?

90% of winners woudn't compete in it unless it was a pre-season tournament.

 

[rcoobc]

I do get that but my point is, imagine someone has a crazy fairytale run a la Wigan years ago, they are then one game away from the CL group stages while champions of leagues you mentioned above have to navigate multiple qualifiers. It's not fair.

I mean, if Wigan beat 5 other teams on the route to the final, then City in the FA Cup Final, then 2013 Arsenal over a two legged qualifier...

It's not perfect but it would be hilarious.

 

[rcoobc]

They should definitely make the FA Cup a CL spot. People always say “well it would be ridiculous if Wigan had got in in 2013” but that season 7th placed Liverpool went out to Oldham with a weakened team. Would they have if a CL spot was up for grabs? Probably not.

And even if a small club wins the cup and gets into the CL it would be fairytale stuff that people love and change a club’s fortunes forever, same as when Leicester won the CL.

Great point.

 

[Grinner]

Who was it who dissed the FA Cup by skipping it one year to play in some bollocks tournament?

 

[Withnail]

You think it's nonsensical to be against winners of a domestic cup competition being given a greater reward than winners of a league?

Cool.

Currently a team who finishes 4th in the premier league gets a spot so I've no idea what your problem is.

Which team/league in particular do you have a bee in your bonnet about?

 

[manutddjw]

Who was it who dissed the FA Cup by skipping it one year to play in some bollocks tournament?

I could me mistaken, but I always heard the FA was pushing us to play in that tournament to help them out with their bid for the World Cup.

 

[Withnail]

Who was it who dissed the FA Cup by skipping it one year to play in some bollocks tournament?

This bullshit again

We're just going to pretend the FA had nothing to do with that decision, are we?

 

[Bastian]

I wouldn't mind if the FA Cup winners get the 4th CL place. At all. I do mind if the changes to the CL will start having that Super League effect of coefficient over last few seasons keeps you in there, but that's another story..

 

[SirFergie]

I'd love that, but are you saying to run the CWC alongside the current CL?

90% of winners woudn't compete in it unless it was a pre-season tournament.

No, the CL would obviously have to change as would the Europa League. Preferably back to what they were i.e. for National League champions and Europa League for 2nd, 3rd place/League Cup winners

Not going to happen though.