If ETH also is able to bring in FdJ and de Ligt and at some point wins the CL I reckon the cup should be shared with Ajax.
André Onana | Officially a Red! | #24
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Very exciting signing, should improve the general play of the team greatly. Looks like he's quite a big character too which the United dressing room needs more of.
Yeah, we have to look at the overall change in the team. I think we will end up conceding more without De Gea (he did win golden gloves after all), but we will end up winning more games which is the ultimate goal. The whole team will play differently now.
Nobody is expecting him to reach De Gea's peak level of shot-stopping. He was literally one of the best ever in that regard, probably the best I've seen in the roughly 27 years I've been watching the sport. Onana's pure shot-stopping will not reach that level, it's not even debatable.
But De Gea himself hasn't been remotely close to that level for five years now (bar a brief period in the first half of 21/22). All decent keepers make the occasional amazing save, but the best will do it more often and also won't concede many that they shouldn't. That doesn't describe De Gea anymore.
I'm not saying Onana will definitely be as good or better at shot-stopping as current De Gea, but it's also not a definite that he won't be. We just have to watch to find out, and compare how he goes with the De Gea of the last five years. Unfortunately what is very obvious is that a lot of people are going to pretend that De Gea is still at (or at least close to) his 2012-18 level and compare Onana to that version. 'De Gea would have saved that' is going to be said a lot over the next year or two by people who ignore that current De Gea also wouldn't have saved it. Obviously there is a chance that Onana will be a fairly big drop even from current De Gea but I'd say that's more unlikely than him being roughly the same level.
I don't think this will necessary be the case tbh. I think we're guilty of being hoodwinked by the odd spectacular De Gea save, but often forget it was his positioning and unwillingness to leave his line which would lead to situations where those saves would be necessary.
By having a more proactive and assertive goalkeeper its possible we'd give the opposition less opportunities to have a direct chance at goal.
De Gea and pur defenders sitting back defending made us have ridiculously low goals conceded numbers at times. I think we will concede 4 or 5 goals more per season but the change in our overall play will have us score 10 or 20 more.
Keeping De Gea as #1 was not an option, simple as that. He was massively unsuited to the entire playstyle that ETH wants to utilise, and his limitations create issues that make it harder for the entire team to move to that style. Expecting ETH to have to wait until his third season to make that change would have been a massive failure of the club.
Whether Onana is the correct replacement or not is another story, but De Gea had to be replaced.
What many people here are not seeing with regards to “keeping the ball out of the net” is that we will concede far fewer shots to begin with.
I implore you doubters to do a simple exercise. Watch our performances from last season and look at the number of open play chances we’ve conceded as a result of either a strong press causing De Gea to hoof it or the lack of passing ability leading to us being penned in to our own half with a less intense press.
Have a look at the number of possessions we should have had with a keeper comfortable with his feet vs what we had. You will realise a whole new world of watching football because you’ll see that wejust couldn’t control possession at times against pretty weak opponents!
This is an exercise I started when watching City, Liverpool and even Leipzig from a few years ago. Hell look at Brighton from last season! They control games and control starts from the keeper.
I implore you doubters to do a simple exercise. Watch our performances from last season and look at the number of open play chances we’ve conceded as a result of either a strong press causing De Gea to hoof it or the lack of passing ability leading to us being penned in to our own half with a less intense press.
Have a look at the number of possessions we should have had with a keeper comfortable with his feet vs what we had. You will realise a whole new world of watching football because you’ll see that wejust couldn’t control possession at times against pretty weak opponents!
This is an exercise I started when watching City, Liverpool and even Leipzig from a few years ago. Hell look at Brighton from last season! They control games and control starts from the keeper.
Trouble is when that fails we fall apart in spectacular fashion and end up getting beat quite heavily. The Etihad and Anfield games were testament to that. Its all good managing to keep it tight against the minnows of the league, but the second our low block fails against one of the big boys, we tend to concede heavily. De Gea's also a keeper who's been notorious for completely collapsing when conceding a goal or two early. Liverpool only had 8 shots on target in the 7-0 disaster. Says a lot I think.
Is he even bad at shot stopping? I checked his fbref profile and didn't find it bad. He had couple of average ones (last season at Ajax) but overall it looks decent,
| Competition | PSxG-xA | Percentile | Save % | |
| 2022-23 | CL | 0.58 | 94 | 80.70% |
| 2022-23 | Serie A | -0.11 | 42 | 73.50% |
| 2021-22 | Dutch League | -0.25 | 16 | 44.40% |
| 2021-22 | CL | 0.55 | 96 | 75.00% |
| 2020-21 | CL | 85 | 85 | 78.60% |
| 2020-21 | Dutch League | 0.21 | 89 | 80.00% |
| 2019-20 | CL | 0.83 | 99 | 86.70% |
| 2019-20 | Dutch League | 0.23 | 85 | 73.60% |
| 2018-19 | CL | 0.43 | 88 | 77.40% |
| 2018-19 | Dutch League | 0.02 | 77 | 74.30% |
Then we will be Joint-Ajax United？
I would rate De Gea as a 6/10 whereas our ST is a 1/10.
Personally I believe the GK situation should of been addressed only after the resolution of our ST one. Those 50 mil could of been redirected for a very good striker or strikers, for that matter.
It remains to be seen who do we buy.
Hey I've always been in favor of a more serious collab than just selling you players for a shitload of money.Then we will be Joint-Ajax United？
I'm sure United sometimes has academy players that need time to mature in a smaller league so for instance selling them to us for a small fee with an interesting buy back clause would be beneficial for both clubs and even the players to some extend.
If it's world class CF then they are not available to sign for us, if available they cost way more than whatever we saved up.
Better decision is to sign a young CF who has the potential to be a 9 for many years.
FdJ is my dream signing. Would only get done after a takeover sadly if ever. With a controlling playmaker we could win a CL 100%.
I’m most excited about the keeper though over Mount. I honestly don’t think Mount will change us a whole lot. This keeper meanwhile is a game changer.
No worries mate, I know the feeling well.
Seeing as neither Osimhen or Kane are available, it is not possible to put £50m towards a higher calibre of striker. Also, signing a new first choice keeper is more beneficial than an additional striker to Højlund.
Has to be pointed out that Onana is not perfect in this regard, just much better than De Gea. Could still lead to the odd goal, as the tempo of pressing is just higher in the Premier League than Serie A. Onana will adapt eventually I believe but it could be a rough start like with De Gea.
A new striker was slightly more important, but both were vital. That doesn't mean you spend 100m on a striker and 0 on a keeper. It means you replace both.
At the end of last season it was obvious that there were three positions that were far ahead of any other in terms of how vital they were to sign. Striker, keeper and #8. Every other position (with the possible exception of a cheap back-up for Casemiro) can be postponed, but not signing any of those three was simply setting us up for guaranteed failure. To put it very simply, spending an average of 50m on each of the three is a better solution than spending 150m on one of them. Obviously with the caveat that we are able to find the correct players to sign. Perhaps the better way of putting it is that signing a good player in all three positions makes us a better team than one world class player in one of the positions.
I would say that the way you are describing this is how I did feel about our links with Kim Min-jae. While a nice signing and being available for what seemed a great price, it would still have had too much of an impact on our actual key positions so it never made sense to me. However that argument doesn't work with keeper as it is one of those vital positions.
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Absolutely. If you leave out his horrific games after his suspension I didn't feel as confident of our GK since VDS.
He hasnt even played a single minute but a myth about him not being good at shot stopping is aready doing the rounds.
It was in my suggestions on YouTube so I gave it a watch.
To be honest, I think it's already established that he's not a stand out keeper in terms of shot stopping etc. He's a bit flappy at times and you can see how he has a tendency to palm shots into dangerous areas. But he's been signed because we wanted a keeper that's good with his feet, the rest we will have to see how it works out.
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You’re a wanker.
Looking at the PSxG-GA he is slightly worse than DDG at shot stopping, who is worse than Allison
According to Save% he is (much) better than DDG and (slightly) better than Allison
So it looks like we're swapping DDG for a keeper who is slightly worse at stopping shots but much better at all the other stuff. So still a significant upgrade.
I think people are already expecting too much of his ball playing capabilities, combined with his other GK qualities, I think some will get a reality check very fast.
I agree with the KIM situation, we are in no position to spend 50 mil on a squad player at this moment.
For me at least the order of priority in this transfer market would of been: ST - CM - GK, with the striker position being far ahead of the others.
The fact that we left our most weak position last, makes me worry a little and I just hope we are able to sign a quality ST.
Maybe I'm just a bit old-fashioned, but I always think City look even more tinpot with their stupid squad numbers.
champ, july 2023
Edgar Davids was wearing no1 when he was player/manager
Honestly why did we let our #24 go in first place?
I don't get it....
I don't get it....
Cautiously optimistic about this signing. Sure he'll get torn into the second he fails to make a save, but we'll concede far fewer chances with a more proactive goalkeeper, and be far harder to put under pressure with a keeper who can use his feet.
24 = 2x12
2x1 = 2
2/2 = 1
2x1 = 2
2/2 = 1
Under ETH, he was a kick away from a CL final and now he's played in one. It wouldn't take much for him to be better than what we already had. That's where the optimism comes from.
I wouldn't say he's a poor shot stopper but he doesn't have the reflexes De Gea has so dont expect miraculous world class saves from point blank range. Dave spoilt us with those but let us down in his distribution.
Onana is infinitely better with the ball at his feet and I hope his calmness extends to the team.
Onana is infinitely better with the ball at his feet and I hope his calmness extends to the team.
I've missed the HEH?s last few weeks.
What is this place, KUMON?
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