Neither are ideal tbh. It would actually have been better yo loan someone. The only problem I had was making Cavani look good. It's always a new injury keeping him from playing 10 minutes a week. Best case scenario he really is broken and we have a player who can't even play in sub role. He can just start building his own Island in Dubai. Know he isn't actually there but might as well be anywhere else.
Anthony Martial | Sevilla loan watch
- Thread starter roonster09
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He wanted to leave, so I don't understand why people are acting as uf we should have forced him to stay. When does keeping a player who wishes to go ever work out?
Look at Cavani, we had to beg him to stay and he's been Mr invisible the whole season
Look at Cavani, we had to beg him to stay and he's been Mr invisible the whole season
up to some point last season if you said Jota was better than Rashford you’d have been crucified on here. I think Rashford is a better player with a much lower work ethic on the pitch. Jota just keeps going and a chance will always fall for him. Rashford is walking around and has been for too long.
You're also right. I think it's because the topic of who to sell in the summer is different from which of the wantaways would have helped most before the summer.
When it comes to Cavani I'd rather have loaned another striker because we're now stuck with Lingard when we need a goal (yet another wantaway). The other wantaways want playing time and there's Cavani who we're begging to have playing time. As per Ralf he has been given assurances of his importance. He has it good. I'm sure he'll be magically fit for that CL tie.
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I don't understand why Martial scoring in a Europa league means we should bring him back. Even if he scores 10 goals for Sevilla this season, I'd want him gone in the summer. Players like him need to go, too many question marks. If he finds for, we can get £40/50m for him which can help with our summer budget.
We have Rashford, Elanga, Sancho who play LW so lets focus on getting a MF and ST.
We have Rashford, Elanga, Sancho who play LW so lets focus on getting a MF and ST.
I think it's an issue of motivation with quite a few players. Martial showing what he's about at a new club and trying to show United what they're missing is motivated. Shaw trying to prove Mourinho wrong is motivated. Pogba playing for his next contract or at a tournament with France is motivated. None of those are the versions of them we've seen for most of their time here.
I don't doubt that all three of them will likely look great for new clubs... for a while, and that's not an argument that keeping them would be the best option, because that's not the player we'd see for Manchester United if we kept them. Let alone the mental Martial FC stance of keeping him here against his will somehow.
You're not even taking on what I'm saying, so I'm leaving this discussion here. Have a great day champ
Cavani's mind is willing? Really? It doesn't seem very willing!
That's what it is, a criticised player or one that doesn't get many chances, will always look good for a new club for a while. I can guarantee if Martial has a great loan spell, his value will increase, Martial FC will say he has to stay. If we sell him, 1 year from now, he will be back to being complacent.I think it's an issue of motivation with quite a few players. Martial showing what he's about at a new club and trying to show United what they're missing is motivated. Shaw trying to prove Mourinho wrong is motivated. Pogba playing for his next contract or at a tournament with France is motivated. None of those are the versions of them we've seen for most of their time here.
I don't doubt that all three of them will likely look great for new clubs... for a while, and that's not an argument that keeping them would be the best option, because that's not the player we'd see for Manchester United if we kept them. Let alone the mental Martial FC stance of keeping him here against his will somehow.
I mean there is evidence, Smalling. When he went to Roma, first 6 months I remember people saying he is our best defender and he is on loan and what not.. look at him now.
It was willing last season. He’s been mentally checked out of all this one. If you check the stats he’s actually covering less ground/sprints/tackles than Rashford and Ronaldo per 90
Surely he's coming back next season. Cavani is gone, Greenwood has no future at the club and Ronaldo has just turned 37.
We'll sign another striker for sure, but we'll need Martial as back-up.
We'll sign another striker for sure, but we'll need Martial as back-up.
He's clearly massively flaky, but he's been poorly managed too.
Of all our players, he's the one who would have benefited most from Fergie.
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It’s a difficult one - I do understand why you re-signed him. He was very good at times last year and clearly there was hope that he’d do that again, but more regularly. But that was clearly an overly optimistic aim rather than a justified and well thought out assessment. It’s astonishing to me that I’ve gone from thinking recently that you are stupidly, unnecessarily, overloaded up front, to now thinking that you absolutely must buy a striker in the summer or you’ll be screwed next season. Shows what I know!
The thing with Martial is he’s a really good low pressing/pressure #9 in a counter attacking team. He can skin the final man or two. When you need to attack or press relentlessly he totally goes missing.
On the wings he doesn’t press or track back enough.
Confusing player. Another one who if he majorly upped his work rate could be world class.
On the wings he doesn’t press or track back enough.
Confusing player. Another one who if he majorly upped his work rate could be world class.
What would the point be of keeping a player that doesn’t want to be here as a backup? He’s not going to perform on the pitch. Would make far more sense to sell him for 20-30 million and use the money to buy a promising striker to replace him
Surely the reason he wanted to leave was because he wasn't getting minutes. If he's getting minutes, problem solved.
I’m obviously guessing just like you are (and clearly we could both be wrong) but yes, I exactly think that. I wouldn’t confuse being injured with somehow not being willing.
But when he got minutes most of the time he was poor to invisible. The issue with Martial seems to be temprament not ability. I think a less competitive and pressured league at aless profile club would suit him. Hope he plays well and we get a decent sum for him.
Hope he does well so we get some for him. He doesnt have a future here. We need players with different mentality
Martial is a technically excellent player, but when you want to challenge for titles he's not the man to count on.
The moment you need him to step up and be a consistent 30 goal a season striker, or a 15 goal/20 assist a season winger, he's away with the fairies.
The moment you need him to step up and be a consistent 30 goal a season striker, or a 15 goal/20 assist a season winger, he's away with the fairies.
Had his chances.
Sell him to whoever wants him.
Bring in hungry players.
Sell him to whoever wants him.
Bring in hungry players.
Its very clear he doesn't have the mentality to operate at the very top level, don't doubt his talent but he's so flaky. This was his 7th season since joining the club.
Sevilla twitter account is something else. Alot of posts for a player they have on loan. I doubt theyll be able to afford him if he has a good spell.
Brilliant post.
It would be ok simply criticise Martians character [though those that do have never met nor trained with the guy] if he were the exception but he’s not the first talented player to join us, stagnate then suddenly look revived once leaving. We have woefully under developed a number of players in recent years. Just look at Sancho, bought by a manager that switched to a winger less formation months later only to look decent when played consistently in his best position.
My worry is, we’ve learnt nothing. We’ll go for Poch & repeat the cycle.
Everyone is entitled to say what they want about him at the end of the day but the 'last 18 months' rhetoric that is being spewed by a section here is utter nonsense. He was undoubtedly poor from August 2020 - March 2021 (despite having a statistically better season than Jadon Sancho lol). He then tore a ligament in his knee, missed the end of the season and (rightly or wrongly) never got a sustained run in the side this season. The reality is he had a poor 7 months, got a bad injury which kept him out for around 5 months and we signed two big name attackers in the summer which essentially ended his career here which is fair enough but he hasn't been performing badly for 18 months as some people here are suggesting, its complete nonsense and is nothing more than confirmation bias from those who tend to watch football without any sort of context applied to their thinking.
This./
The same as it’ll be when a fellow Frenchman leaves this summer, don’t be surprised by a sudden upturn in form. The current set up at the club is the problem, the amount of ‘flops’ with us who’ve gone on to show they can offer more elsewhere really should have switched on a light by now. Martial was horrendously handled after LvG left.
This is actually a good and valid point. Questions have to be asked as to why players who seemingly have no problem performing elsewhere can't replicate that at United. And it can't be as simple as a matter of pressure because some of these players have come from places like Real Madrid performing excellently to then come here and look lost.
Why do loads of players prior to coming here or after they've left do perform well or at least to their general expected level? We've seen players come to United off some world class seasons to then underperform and struggle here. What is that all about?
Despite people having a tendency to focus on individual talents, it's imperative to understand that only a proper structure can compliment those said talents and give them a platform to perform and excel. No matter how good a player is, if not given the right platform to perform, he'll struggle and we've seen many example at United.
Hes utter dross and has been for sometime. Making excuses for our underperforming players. We just need to sell him and move on. Simply not good enough.
Where does this notion that Martial is allergic to pressing football hence why he didn't want any part of Ragnik football comes from? I keep hearing this thrown around yet it's born out of wild speculations based on how some people perceive Martial.
This idea Martial doesn't want to play in a pressing system is an especially funny take because Sevilla play a pressing game. They press more than United have ever attempted under Ralf himself, so these takes about Martial being allergic to playing in a pressing system are quite bizarre.
Honestly I don’t see him or Donny coming back. I think when you loan out 40m players, mid season with shite load of important matches to play, fighting for top four, still in CL and players in those positions are terribly out of form or injured all the time, what does that tell you if the club is still willing to let them go and take that risk?
Maybe it’s me but can’t be too many examples of people coming back of that age and being successful. Yes they come back and just revert back to the player they were before they left.
Maybe it’s me but can’t be too many examples of people coming back of that age and being successful. Yes they come back and just revert back to the player they were before they left.
If the can sell kounde for 70 millions to Chelsea, they can probably submit an offer for Martial for 25 millions. But I don't think we would accept. I do think that if he does well, they would probably try to take him on loan again for 5 millions and we will include an optional fee of 40 millions, which they will never submit.
This is a list I would like to see.
You might want to look into this again. Jota is a far better player than Rashford it´s not even close.
We need to stop overrating our players.
Im no huge Rashford fan. I spent most of last season majorly frustrated by him before the penny dropped for the majority. I said this above
up to some point last season if you said Jota was better than Rashford you’d have been crucified on here. I think Rashford is a better player with a much lower work ethic on the pitch. Jota just keeps going and a chance will always fall for him. Rashford is walking around and has been for too long.
I think that’s fair enough considering people were saying Rashford was worth 100 million and all this last year or the year before
He has literally never, ever shown himself to be the hardworking, pressing forward that we need. It really doesn't matter how many goals he scores on loan, he doesn't suit our play. The more goals he scores the better, maybe we'll get a decent fee for him when we sell him.
This, it’s the same situation as Lingard and Henderson. Just because they play good for another team. It doesn’t matter, they arent good enough for us and don’t suit us. I really hope we sell DVB, Henderson and Martial at the end of the season
It’s not a hard one to find. Players that flop at United going on to prove useful elsewhere isn’t particularly radical a concept. Do you really want to go name for name then you bitch & moan about to what degree they’ve succeeded since leaving then & I rebuttal but you playe down success in Serie A or Ligue 1 etc. Frankly, I’ve played this game too many times on this forum, we’ve written off a number of players in recent years who leave & aren’t bad players elsewhere, if you don’t agree with that then go argue with the clouds.
Check the list & determine for yourself. I’m not saying every player that left has been great [far from it] but we’ve seen some players leave under a cloud & take no massive steps back in their careers. We haven’t won a league title since 2013, it’s rather easy to go elsewhere & be just as, if not more, ‘successful’.
I think there needs to be context to most of these discussions. United are one of only a handful of clubs in the world that can be on the front page and the back of the newspapers at the same time. The pressures that come with that are enormous and the shirts weighs heavy on players more so than others, in the same way as it does for us as fans. As big as City are now, their footprint on football isn’t the same as Utd with many of the fans still old enough to remember when they were shite.
Not sure anyone questioned Tony’s ability or Pogs, just their mentality to be consistently good sometimes even when others aren’t.
I think that it is cope out. United have been structurally terrible, we all agree on that but somehow when it comes to judge pretty much all players individually we come up with far fetched theories like pressure. Almost all our players since SAF left have been mishandled and none of them have been consistent or even overachieved at the exception of maybe De Gea but even in the case of De Gea we saw him improve in his weaknesses under Hoek and then slowly regress without him which makes him an other example of a player that has been mishandled by the club since we know that he had more to offer, we know that we had a coach that was a good fit for him and yet we seemingly never made an effort to keep that partnership.
But to go back to your point, it would be something if none of the players we sign are able to handle pressure, it would be something if all our players without exception have a questionable mentality because none of them are consistent, none of them have been consistently good.
Exactly. The club continues to flounder but people take it out on the individuals every time when fundamentally these players have been under coached/poorly coached for years. That doesn’t absolve all issues as some responsibility lays with the players but this notion that they need more fire in their belly is nonsense. Example, for all the gusto McTominay runs round with, his determination doesn’t make up for a lack of ability. VdB who I don’t think is amazing looks transformed in a game outside the club. It’s happening too much to be coincidence is my point.
Come on mate, people throw out things like below all the time. . .
The mentality argument is another red herring, yes it’s often mentioned but you don’t need to go far on this forum to find posters calling the players you’ve mentioned bad which is just not true.
Yes we have a large profile but as the poster above says, a number of players go on to/come from massive clubs in their respective countries. As much as Citeh are a smaller entity you’d have to be rather naive to ignore the fact that as a club currently they are set up far better to promote the best from their players than we are.