Antoine Griezmann

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,226
Location
France
Who? PSG? Why it’s impossible? I don’t think they rate him that highly. When they rate a player they prefer to keep it in their team no matter how young he is. See Zaire Emery for example.
They rate him highly. They let him go on loans because it was the conditions he set for an extension.
 

MegadrivePerson

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2022
Messages
1,444
Griezmann is on 230k a week at Atletico. Signing him on 690k a week at 33 probably isn't the best idea?
 

slyadams

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Messages
2,183
So a bit like any player at any age?

Lukaku looked to have the world at his feet. Failed.

Rooney burnt early. Fabregas burnt early. Nani faded in his physical prime. Anderson looked promising as a young player. Faded, or grew, badly.

Ibra faded due to a serious injury more than age.

There’s no guarantee with any player. Looking at ballon d’or and watching the game, most players peak at around 30 or slightly above. For most, the decline is not like a cliff. At 35, you can still be brilliant, but you need more rest.
Not really no. If you're suggesting that a 23 year old has an equal chance to decline than a 32 year old then I simply disagree.
 

Rossa

Full Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
10,317
Location
Looking over my shoulder.
Not really no. If you're suggesting that a 23 year old has an equal chance to decline than a 32 year old then I simply disagree.
No, not saying that. However, a 23 year old is not yet in his prime, so him reaching that peak is still a big question mark. Griezmann at 33 sounds like he is in his prime being at his career best.

If you get hold of a 23 year old of equal quality then jackpot, but a 23 year old is normally not at his peak and subsequently there is an expectation of growth. That expectation may be met, or may not be. In most cases, you would be hard pressed to find a 23 year old in a similar position for similar money as Griezmann. Now, if Griezmann's quality drops by 10% in the next two years, is he going to be worse than the then 25 year old almost at his peak, or expected to be almost at his peak?

This is why I find the discussion on age so one sided. If you took a 32 year old Modric at the time, many would argue against him because of age. He's 37 now? That's five brilliant years of a fantastic footballer who is still one of the best in the world - was the best midfielder in the world at 35. If you buy an almost class player at 20-23, you expect them to improve, but that's not always the case. Thus, you need to look at their current level, and you need to consider the drop that is bound to come from at 30+ player, but that needs to be seen in comparison to an expected rise in the level of the 20+ player.

If it's a two year contract for a small fee and he hits the ground running and still produces at 35, then it was a solid investment. RvP was a brilliant investment if only for that one great season. We would not have won the league without him. Re-sale value is an issue, but then United are not exactly the best in class in that department.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
13,370
[Insert name of almost player we've purchased] would be our best player by several light years.

And then we watch his promise instantly disappear
There is seriousness in your jest which takes us back to the poor management of the club. I can forgive the Glazer Lords for going with Fergie's pick of the hapless Scot, but to then follow that up with Louis, Jose and Ole was was a fekkin tragedy -- with the possible exception of Bruno every single top name player we brought in was worse than all reasonable expectations. Perhaps we can exclude Ibra as well, who scored buckets (but missed buckets) and was felled by serious injury.

But this thread is about Antoine so let's stick to him. I'd rather see is commit to a proper rebuild rather than continue to patch on big names to a ship that's taking on water.
 

Kellyiom

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Messages
293
Location
Isle of Man Utd
Awesome, thank you KSA.

It's pretty sad the only treble we have a shot at these days is the one for salary multipliers.
when you put it like that...then yes, things are as bad as the press are saying. Made me feel quite emotional.
We're an 'institution', not just in football and I think we need to get it sorted like yesterday, easy to say, harder to do I know.
But MBA degree students often reference us due to the duration of the manager and SAF's ability to shift his styles as the sport developed.

The club does a lot of good work (as City do also) locally with charities where a player might visit an ill kid. Nobody wants to admit to doing that because it looks like you're angling for praise but that's what I mean about United being a huge institution.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
In some ways it's remarkable that some people still see us linked to aging players whose best years are obviously behind them and who would demand massive wages and think "that's a good idea, because he's good right now!".

Forget learning from our own mistakes, you could just look at the approach to transfers that has seen City and Liverpool be better than us for a decade and realise that there's a reason they so rarely make these type of signings.

As Rangnick reportedly told Murtough when referencing the Cavani signing, signing players approaching the end of their careers is short-sighted and a sticking-plaster strategy that doesn't have a future. It should be avoided.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,091
Location
Montevideo
As Rangnick reportedly told Murtough when referencing the Cavani signing, signing players approaching the end of their careers is short-sighted and a sticking-plaster strategy that doesn't have a future. It should be avoided.
In fairness, it sort of made sense if we expected Greenwood to develop into a striker. I was actually delighted to see how they would exchange gestures establishing how they should have synced their movement after a missed opportunity. That was a part of Cavani's game that was exceptional, doesn't get ruined with age and you could instantly see we had been missing.

The analogy is correct but far more fitting with Cristiano added on top of Cavani :houllier: More so because Cristiano expects the team to cater for him and there's no fecking point building a team around a 37 year-old guy, past it or not. Same holds for Griezman here.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
12,799
I disagree, we'll do what we always do with the likes of Zlatan, Cavani, Ronaldo, Schweinsteiger and the older players of that profile. We'll offer him ridiculous money (tripling his wage is fecking bonkers as he can't be on shit money now), then we're stuck with them while they rapidly decline, throw their toys out the pram or spend months out injured. We should be looking at players in the 21-26 year old bracket, and build a team instead of going for over the hill players looking for a final pay day.
While I don't like the idea of signing Griezmann, your opinion is too extreme. We wouldn't have won 1999 CL with your line of thinking by not signing Teddy Sheringham.Just like how City saw no issue signing Kovacic who is injury prone himself. Akanji was signed when he was 27. Kyle Walker was signed when he was 27.

Let's say Giroud would have been open to move to us when he left Arsenal and Chelsea, when we need an experienced CF like we do now; you would rather keep your hands in the pocket writing off a few seasons to develop Hojlund? Only to see Giroud to maintain a high level of performance for half a decade. We saw for ourselves recently that signing right age profile prospect doesn't mean jackshit because bad luck may render players into crock Pogba, Bailly, Martial, or they're just not good enough van de Beek, or off the pitch issue can take away players like Greenwood, Sancho.

Successful teams will try to get healthy portion of recruitment consisted of younger age profile, but there is no ridiculous extreme policy like you suggest. Long term also built on short term luck and good planning. Man City wanted Kane 2 seasons ago when he was 28 already. They're in luck of getting Haaland, but for them to be lucky, plenty other clubs remain unlucky. Arsenal Chelsea Real Madrid all can do with a better CF. Bayern signed Kane for their club record fee.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude

DJ Jeff

Not so Jazzy
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
5,232
Location
Soaring like a candy wrapper caught in an updraft
While I don't like the idea of signing Griezmann, your opinion is too extreme. We wouldn't have won 1999 CL with your line of thinking by not signing Teddy Sheringham.Just like how City saw no issue signing Kovacic who is injury prone himself. Akanji was signed when he was 27. Kyle Walker was signed when he was 27.

Let's say Giroud would have been open to move to us when he left Arsenal and Chelsea, when we need an experienced CF like we do now; you would rather keep your hands in the pocket writing off a few seasons to develop Hojlund? Only to see Giroud to maintain a high level of performance for half a decade. We saw for ourselves recently that signing right age profile prospect doesn't mean jackshit because bad luck may render players into crock Pogba, Bailly, Martial, or they're just not good enough van de Beek, or off the pitch issue can take away players like Greenwood, Sancho.

Successful teams will try to get healthy portion of recruitment consisted of younger age profile, but there is no ridiculous extreme policy like you suggest. Long term also built on short term luck and good planning. Man City wanted Kane 2 seasons ago when he was 28 already. They're in luck of getting Haaland, but for them to be lucky, plenty other clubs remain unlucky. Arsenal Chelsea Real Madrid all can do with a better CF. Bayern signed Kane for their club record fee.
27 is fair enough, 28 at a push, but what is the point of a big money 30+ yo signing now? What are they going to help us win? we aren't winning anything remotely big for at least 3 years by which point that player will be over the hill anyway. Same reason signing Casemiro made no sense.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
15,726
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
While I don't like the idea of signing Griezmann, your opinion is too extreme. We wouldn't have won 1999 CL with your line of thinking by not signing Teddy Sheringham.Just like how City saw no issue signing Kovacic who is injury prone himself. Akanji was signed when he was 27. Kyle Walker was signed when he was 27.

Let's say Giroud would have been open to move to us when he left Arsenal and Chelsea, when we need an experienced CF like we do now; you would rather keep your hands in the pocket writing off a few seasons to develop Hojlund? Only to see Giroud to maintain a high level of performance for half a decade. We saw for ourselves recently that signing right age profile prospect doesn't mean jackshit because bad luck may render players into crock Pogba, Bailly, Martial, or they're just not good enough van de Beek, or off the pitch issue can take away players like Greenwood, Sancho.

Successful teams will try to get healthy portion of recruitment consisted of younger age profile, but there is no ridiculous extreme policy like you suggest. Long term also built on short term luck and good planning. Man City wanted Kane 2 seasons ago when he was 28 already. They're in luck of getting Haaland, but for them to be lucky, plenty other clubs remain unlucky. Arsenal Chelsea Real Madrid all can do with a better CF. Bayern signed Kane for their club record fee.
I'd say an older player who is cheap (cheap in fee and reasonable wage) is fine in our current situation, like Giroud presumably would have been.

But we need too much work done throughout our entire squad to go big on players that will probably only be here at their peak for a short period. So we shouldn't be spending big transfer fees on a player who is on the older side of things, nor on anyone at the top wage bracket.

If the rest of the team was strong and we really just needed that extra one or two pieces then by all means it'd be fine to spend bigger money on an older player who would help take us to the next level for a few years (what RVP did for example).
 

Red in STL

Turnover not takeover
Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Messages
9,061
Location
In Bed
Supports
The only team that matters
when you put it like that...then yes, things are as bad as the press are saying. Made me feel quite emotional.
We're an 'institution', not just in football and I think we need to get it sorted like yesterday, easy to say, harder to do I know.
But MBA degree students often reference us due to the duration of the manager and SAF's ability to shift his styles as the sport developed.

The club does a lot of good work (as City do also) locally with charities where a player might visit an ill kid. Nobody wants to admit to doing that because it looks like you're angling for praise but that's what I mean about United being a huge institution.
TBH most clubs do this, a lot of elite level players have their own thing as well and neither shout about it as much as they could or maybe should

United have a tradition where the players take presents to local children's hospitals at Xmas, they've done it for decades, City do a similar thing and I know that Stockport used to (maybe still do) Rochdale used to do traingin camps with unemployed people when I was younger, I took aprt in some but I was still shite, doing the same thing at Oldham didn't improve matters either :lol:
 

Bondi77

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
7,112
We do not need another player that is over 30 and past it stinking up the place.
 

Kellyiom

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Messages
293
Location
Isle of Man Utd
TBH most clubs do this, a lot of elite level players have their own thing as well and neither shout about it as much as they could or maybe should

United have a tradition where the players take presents to local children's hospitals at Xmas, they've done it for decades, City do a similar thing and I know that Stockport used to (maybe still do) Rochdale used to do traingin camps with unemployed people when I was younger, I took aprt in some but I was still shite, doing the same thing at Oldham didn't improve matters either :lol:
That's still pretty cool though! There's a well known former Latics player living in my town, he's a good laugh and works as a physio. Hard to believe there was a time before the internet, before satellite tv, when we had to go to the pub and listen on a krappy reception long wave radio while watching the 'videprinter' or whatever it was called on the BBC..
 

Red in STL

Turnover not takeover
Joined
Dec 1, 2022
Messages
9,061
Location
In Bed
Supports
The only team that matters
That's still pretty cool though! There's a well known former Latics player living in my town, he's a good laugh and works as a physio. Hard to believe there was a time before the internet, before satellite tv, when we had to go to the pub and listen on a krappy reception long wave radio while watching the 'videprinter' or whatever it was called on the BBC..
That plastic pitch they had was a nightmare, if you bounced the ball you could have a cup of coffee before it came down and you definitely didn't want any skin on show, you'd get a burn on it!

If I recall correctly the pubs weren't usually open at that time!
 

parmenio

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
178
There is some top Trolling on here. Who’s next Neymar and Kante let’s double their wages too. Or maybe Ronnie back. Load of nonsense.
 

Stadjer

Full Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2013
Messages
7,196
Location
The Netherlands
There is some top Trolling on here. Who’s next Neymar and Kante let’s double their wages too. Or maybe Ronnie back. Load of nonsense.
You are the one trolling. You are comparing a player who is always fit and still amongst the better players in Europe with injured over the top players. A fit in form Neymar (if that is even possible anymore?) might actually add something to this team but Kante and Ronaldo arent of the required level anymore. Griezmann would directly be the best player in the team.
 

parmenio

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
178
You are the one trolling. You are comparing a player who is always fit and still amongst the better players in Europe with injured over the top players. A fit in form Neymar (if that is even possible anymore?) might actually add something to this team but Kante and Ronaldo arent of the required level anymore. Griezmann would directly be the best player in the team.
Do you honestly believe for a second United are interested? Do you not remember him mucking us around for ages? I’m not comparing him to anyone ? He’s not signing for us for so many reasons. File next to Tooth Fairy.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
17,025
There are understandable questions regarding fee, wages, age, etc. but on current form he would be without a doubt and by a fair margin your best player.
Most people think this about most of our transfers to be fair, then they come here.
 

OverratedOpinion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
6,163
He would be the best player at the club by a mile. We won't sign him but those turning their nose up at the idea are pretty odd.
 

Redstain

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,174
Would be a terrible decision, how many times have United done this dance ? Seems like others haven't learnt from Ronaldo, Cavani, Varane and eventually Casemiro.
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
Would be a terrible decision, how many times have United done this dance ? Seems like others haven't learnt from Ronaldo, Cavani, Varane and eventually Casemiro.
Ibra, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, etc. Sign players whose best is obviously behind them and then wonder why you're not building to long term success like teams who almost exclusively sign players whose best is ahead of them.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Full Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
1,696
Location
Norn Iron
Based on?
Square peg for round hole. Hes a brilliant player but he doesn't fit.

We don't play a formation that suits him and he doesn't have the physicality to carve it out for himself as a no.9 in the Prem. If we sold Bruno then maybe he plays behind the 9, but I can't see us selling Bruno.
 

SecondFig

Full Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
6,515
Location
▲ You Are Here
Griezmann is on 230k a week at Atletico. Signing him on 690k a week at 33 probably isn't the best idea?
Seriously, when is the last time we brought someone in on big wages or for a big fee and he was a success? Varane, Ibra, Sanchez, Ronaldo, Sancho, Casemiro, Antony, Lukaku, Pogba... None of them could really be described as a success. In contrast, our best signings in recent years - the likes of Bruno and Lisandro, have come in for decent money and decent wages but not huge money. That said, God we have a bloody small sample of "good" signings
 

Redstain

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,174
Ibra, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, etc. Sign players whose best is obviously behind them and then wonder why you're not building to long term success like teams who almost exclusively sign players whose best is ahead of them.
Exactly, additionally forgot about those it makes for a grim reading.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,226
Location
France
People are seriously arguing with each others about a player that isn't interested in United and is unlikely to ever leave Spain. :lol:
 

TheRedHearted

Full Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
2,607
Location
New York, NY
Manchester United interested in extemely expensive stop gap who is not premier league proven, because hey that’s life !

If we need immediate goals then just go for Ivan Toney ffs.

the guy has been back in training since September.

a lot more years left in him and he will score i this league.

Isn’t Griezman cup tied in CL? If the idea is to help lighten the load with Hojland in the PL, maybe if he can actually score here. Maybe to play the two of them up top with Hojland further up, but at those wages? What the hell is the point.

desperate times call for extemely expensive players that we would never sell on.

2 year deal is ideal for us, so guessing it’ll be 5!?!
 

Kellyiom

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Messages
293
Location
Isle of Man Utd
That plastic pitch they had was a nightmare, if you bounced the ball you could have a cup of coffee before it came down and you definitely didn't want any skin on show, you'd get a burn on it!

If I recall correctly the pubs weren't usually open at that time!
That's the one! Fond memories ! Some plastic surgeons would have done well out of it in private practice.