fecking hell, Enigma, why do you find the simplest concepts so hard to grasp?
Irrespective of what he had achieved at 23, Henry was a much much better player at 27. So was Evra. So was Giggs. So was Kanchelskis. So was pretty much every fecking footballer that ever played the game, pacy or not pacy, world class or Vauxhall Conference, apart from a tiny minority whose career was ruined by injury, bad career moves or a lack of dedication
You seem to have somehow confused the ability of players that aren't reliant on pace to keep going until their mid thirtiies with quick players mysteriously declining from their mid twenties onwards.
The fact that Henry developed into one of the best few players on the planet by the time he peaked in his late twenties would explain why he had achieved more than Valencia had when he was 23. Nobody is claiming that Valencia will be as good as Henry, simply pointing out that he is another 3 or 4 years away from reaching his peak (possibly more) At this point in the debate you should really concede this point because you're starting to embarrass yourself.
And that is what the whole argument was about. I don't think how is so hard to understand.
Every player who relied on pace as his main asset showed glimpses of what he's capable in his youth. Players like Giggs and Henry are great ones and their longetivity is one of their strengths. Weren't they in top teams prior to their 24th birthday? Didn't Reyes,Walcott, Lennon made the headlights in their teens? Didn't Henry do the same in his teens?
Has Valencia done anything compared to those guys or whatever other pacy players at 24 years of age? Can you tell me 10 matches where he put MoTM performances at Wigan and was the best player on the pitch(mind he played over 90 in Prem, and last season was undisputed first team player)?
Valencia has not shown so far that he can/will be one of the best wingers in Premiership I'm sorry.
Valencia was brought in because he was already adjusted to the Premiership and that he would need much less time to adjust to the team and formation.
And I don't think that if he doesn't 'peak' this year or the next one Fergie would wait for him to become 27-28(giving him free ride at the first team).
And lol at making Henry looking like a late bloomer. Valencia doesn't have that much variation in his game like Henry, or Evra or whoever else was mentioned here
at the moment. Sure he would improve no doubt
all his other attributes, but you are hyping him up as he's the next big thing. This is not Wigan and every bad match could be costly. You can't go AWOEL in matches like he used to do with Wigan and this not being noticed.
All I'm saying from post one was that he should have to be entering his peak. He should show glimpses of what he's capable even in his opening matches as he's accustomed to the Premiership.
We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. You believe that Valencia is 3-4 years away from his best and that he will make a mark then, I think his best years should come this or next season. We'll see how this is going to pan out.
This is my last post in here regarding Valencia. Be free not to hear something negative from me.
Enigma, why are you waffling on about henry and evras achievements at that age? I'm not fecking talking about that. I'm talking about your previous point about pace reliant players peaking extremely early. Anyway, I give you grafite.
You're argument about brazil is bollocks too. Clubs there rely on their academies and invest massively. They are very much the exception to the rule in south America.
the first topic has been beaten to death already. I've already said that Valencia has not shown any consistent, nor best player on the park(bar 3-4 odd games) performances at Wigan to become top-tier player. United bought raw, not finished article, but they also bought proven in Premiership commodity(i.e should be accustomed to game, lifestyle). I'm sorry but I don't like seeing players like Rossi go, when someone like Valencia is given much more opportunity in the first team, and who hasn't exactly set the world alight.
Second of all, I think you are not aware of the training regimes in Brazil.
Those who say the likes of Glenn Roeder and Glenn Hoddle were not given enough time, have never been to South America.
It is not a continent that treats coaches with much patience.
The figure of the coach was created to be a scapegoat, especially more so in contemporary South America.
Some of the major clubs have huge problems: poor training facilities, players wages unpaid for months, the best players continually sold to Europe.
Tim Vickery piece from 6 years ago. Just as an example.
In recent years there have been a number of cases in Argentina where close family members of prominent footballers have been seized and held for ransom.
The sinister logic behind the operation is easy to follow.
The top players can draw wages beyond the wildest dreams of the average worker.
But most come from poor backgrounds.
Often their family have not cut their ties with their former surroundings, making them accessible targets for the kidnappers.
The objective, of course, is the player's money. It helps, then, if he is still based at home. It means that he can easily be contacted to carry out the negotiations.
So fleeing from the kidnap threat becomes yet another factor forcing South America's best players across the Atlantic to the major leagues of Europe.
Brazil has now caught the Argentine disease.
The drive to dribble round poverty is one of the defining features of South American football
Tim Vickery
On Saturday night, the mother of Santos starlet Robinho was kidnapped on the São Paulo coast.
Clubs such as Benfica, Atletico Madrid and PSV Eindhoven have all been knocking on Robinho's door in recent weeks.
Sooner or later he is clearly bound for Europe. This sad case makes it more likely to be sooner.
Hopefully Robinho's mother will soon be safely back at home.
Once she is, no one could blame Robinho for wanting to take the next plane out of the country.
The story of Robinho's mother, Marina, reads like a lesson in contemporary Brazilian social history.
She was born in the country's impoverished North East, and at the age of 12 was given away to a family thousands of miles to the South in the boom town of São Paulo.
A year later she moved on to another family, and lost all contact with her blood relatives.
So, in a country where 2.9 million children work, and 1.3 million are not enrolled in school, a variety of initiatives use football’s popularity to help get young people off the streets and into the classroom.
