Antonio Valencia | 2013/14 Performances

[Deleted member 78215]

Does anyone here feel he could be a good CDM?

I'd like to see him next to Carrick. Can't be worse than Cleverley or Fellaini. His short passing is decent, too.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I'd like to see him next to Carrick. Can't be worse than Cleverley or Fellaini. His short passing is decent, too.

He can also turn the jets on suddenly and make runs through the middle like Anderson when he was good.

 

[NK86]

There's no doubting Rooney's stats and his ability to score important goals - I'm not trying to distract from that at all. What I'm saying is that people seem to look beyond his awful play because of those goals and assists.

Go to the Rooney thread. There are plenty, including myself, saying he had a poor game apart from his goals. Valencia had an average game as well with one assist.

Point is Valencia is a winger for Manchester United and that should entail more than just running at people with the ball. He hardly ever produces goal scoring opportunities directly or indirectly nor does he score enough himself. He is a squad player who can be used to do a defensive job in some big games. But he should no longer be an important player for the first 11 if we are to improve. If LvG does come, I can see someone like Valencia struggling for game time.

 

[Ace of Spades]

He needs to go along with Young and Nani, as he is just as bad as them. The worse part is that he has gotten more games than both of them combined in a team whose style suits his strengths, and yet he is very poor. He has so much of the ball, and does very little with it. Frustrating.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

He needs to go along with Young and Nani, as he is just as bad as them. The worse part is that he has gotten more games than both of them combined in a team whose style suits his strengths, and yet he is very poor. He has so much of the ball, and does very little with it. Frustrating.

So you would sell 3 wingers with no confirmed wide men coming in yet?

 

[Ixion]

I do find Valencia incredibly frustrating. For all his other attributes over them I would pick Young and Nani ahead of him just because they can cross a ball. If he can't beat the first man then he shouldn't play, it is that important to his role in the team.

 

[Ducklegs]

4 key passes (the most for us today) and instrumental in both mata's goals, 2 shots of 4 on target, 92% passing accuracy (4th highest), 3 tackles (tied for most), 0/5 crosses, 4/5 accurate long balls - 4th best player stats-wise after rooney, mata and another.

Shit - sell him.

Meaningless.

You know this already though, so I don't know why you bothered posting it.

 

[LR7]

His crossing from wide areas was a bit shit for the most part, however his link-up play in and around the box (particularly with Welbeck) when he drifted inside was excellent. He gets us on the front foot and helps peg the opposition back. He was less one dimensional, it wasn't all get to the byline and whip a cross into the first defenders legs, he really mixed it up a bit and his final ball wasn't always excellent but he was a threat throughout.

Positive performance overall.

 

[Moonwalker]

Meaningless.

You know this already though, so I don't know why you bothered posting it.

It's said of scholastic theologians that they would sometimes believe the words of Aristotle more than their own eyes.

If what he posted is meaningless, it's only because the caf hive mind has decided some time ago that Valencia is egregious and no amount of actually watching football(or indeed reading the relevant stats) will convince them otherwise.

 

[Ace of Spades]

So you would sell 3 wingers with no confirmed wide men coming in yet?

I would want us to sign an established winger and a youngster with potential instead, but it seems we are looking for another striker according to the gossip. So we will just have to work with the existing crop it seems.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

I would want us to sign an established winger and a youngster with potential instead, but it seems we are looking for another striker according to the gossip. So we will just have to work with the existing crop it seems.

Gossip, that should tell you all you need to know.

 

[KM]

Well LVG converted Scheiwi from a winger to a world class midfielder, not convinced Tony will be world class in any position but I think he can be a good midfielder.

 

[saivet]

Well LVG converted Scheiwi from a winger to a world class midfielder, not convinced Tony will be world class in any position but I think he can be a good midfielder.

The problem is that I don't think he's an intelligent footballer.

Is he a player that people think LVG would like? I imagine if Giggs took over Valencia would be a constant in the team, little unsure about LVG though.

 

[Darwin09]

It's said of scholastic theologians that they would sometimes believe the words of Aristotle more than their own eyes.

If what he posted is meaningless, it's only because the caf hive mind has decided some time ago that Valencia is egregious and no amount of actually watching football(or indeed reading the relevant stats) will convince them otherwise.

This match is a clear indication of that mentality. The match ratings and MOTM threads that surfaced post-match have some ranking him as MOTM or thereabouts. Those that didn't rate his performance claim he was "shit as usual". Very little in between.

 

[Rossa]

Go to the Rooney thread. There are plenty, including myself, saying he had a poor game apart from his goals. Valencia had an average game as well with one assist.

Point is Valencia is a winger for Manchester United and that should entail more than just running at people with the ball. He hardly ever produces goal scoring opportunities directly or indirectly nor does he score enough himself. He is a squad player who can be used to do a defensive job in some big games. But he should no longer be an important player for the first 11 if we are to improve. If LvG does come, I can see someone like Valencia struggling for game time.

I try to stay away from the Rooney thread as I tend to get too negative and post my regular "sell him" story. Good to hear though.

Valencia did produce some goal scoring opportunities yesterday either directly or indirectly though, which is why I thought he did well. Otherwise, I agree with you. We should get someone better on the wings as he is a little too one dimensional. He still has bags of pace and power (he hasn't lost any really), but he doesn't use those attributes well enough in attack, but as you say, he can be important in the big matches as he closes down space in defense so, so quickly. But yeah, I agree with most of what you say here.

 

[Rossa]

Well LVG converted Scheiwi from a winger to a world class midfielder, not convinced Tony will be world class in any position but I think he can be a good midfielder.

Schweinsteiger was always much too slow to be a world class winger. Valencia has more pace than 99% of footballers, and it has been his trademark, yet somehow he lost the ability to use it. His passing hasn't been his trademark, although I do think he is seriously underrated in that respect. He plays more centrally for Ecuador, doesn't he? He and Schweinsteiger are very different players though. No denying that Valencia would solve our static and slow central midfield...

 

[bugmat]

Meaningless.

You know this already though, so I don't know why you bothered posting it.

Is it? It proves how involved he was to our play, and despite his crossing being crap (0/5) every other facet was good, especially his link up play with Welbeck & later Mata.

 

[Moonwalker]

This match is a clear indication of that mentality. The match ratings and MOTM threads that surfaced post-match have some ranking him as MOTM or thereabouts. Those that didn't rate his performance claim he was "shit as usual". Very little in between.

Yeah, that's the template response.

 

[Shark]

He's neither an intelligent footballer, nor a very good one these days IMO. There's not a chance he'd be starting games for any other club of our stature unless it's for rotation purposes. If even that.

 

[Trigg]

I think he's a good player, seems to have lost a yard of a pace though for beating his man before crossing. Hence most crosses he attempts hitting the first man, annoyingly.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

His crossing from wide areas was a bit shit for the most part, however his link-up play in and around the box (particularly with Welbeck) when he drifted inside was excellent. He gets us on the front foot and helps peg the opposition back. He was less one dimensional, it wasn't all get to the byline and whip a cross into the first defenders legs, he really mixed it up a bit and his final ball wasn't always excellent but he was a threat throughout.

Positive performance overall.

This gets overlooked and is a real loss to our game when he's not picked.

Our current squad has very few players that can carry the ball from deep and switch defence into attack without hitting risky forward passes. Our counter-attacking always looks much more effective when Valencia is on the pitch. No coincidence that he scored arguably our best counter-attacking goal of the season so far.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's neither an intelligent footballer, nor a very good one these days IMO. There's not a chance he'd be starting games for any other club of our stature unless it's for rotation purposes. If even that.

Nonsense.

 

[Hellboy]

He was horrible again against Norwich in the first half, his crossing is really appalling. Really hope to see the back of him in the summer, enough is enough. He's just a fast donkey these days (could still do a job at RB though).

 

[Shark]

Nonsense.

Why? because you say so?

 

[Bobcat]

Honestly, the only reason he still wears a United shirt is his past glories and the fact that hes a nice fella, these days he is lightyears away from what you would expect from a United winger. Seeing him leather the ball into fullbacks time and time again is giving me migraines.

Also, seeing people in this thread characterizing his performance as "decent" just proves how low the bar has been set for him. If he did something like this three years ago, everyone would be at his back.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why? because you say so?

No because he's clearly an intelligent footballer. There's a reason first Ferguson, then Moyes and now Giggs all evidently rate him much higher than the resident Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime on redcafe.

You'll note that Giggs kept him on for the full 90 against Norwich, despite subbing off three other attacking players. Why would that happen to a player that fits the description you just gave?

 

[Kaos]

Either we miraculously convert him effectively into another position, or we get rid. He's not good enough to play for us on the wing.

 

[Borys]

No because he's clearly an intelligent footballer. There's a reason first Ferguson, then Moyes and now Giggs all evidently rate him much higher than the resident Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime on redcafe.
You'll note that Giggs kept him on for the full 90 against Norwich, despite subbing off three other attacking players. Why would that happen to a player that fits the description you just gave?

Welbeck and Kagawa were substituted in that game, does it mean they are less intelligent than Valencia?

To be honest I really don’t understand why he gets so many chances and minutes. It’s like running in straight line is good enough to warrant a place in first eleven, although his final ball is abysmal. I really think he would be useful against tired opposition, but that’s it.

 

[Moonwalker]

Honestly, the only reason he still wears a United shirt is his past glories and the fact that hes a nice fella, these days he is lightyears away from what you would expect from a United winger. Seeing him leather the ball into fullbacks time and time again is giving me migraines.

Also, seeing people in this thread characterizing his performance as "decent" just proves how low the bar has been set for him. If he did something like this three years ago, everyone would be at his back.

Well, I'm rarely accused of being a nice fella, so I wouldn't know from personal experience, however I am acquainted with a couple people universally described as such, and I can tell you non of them ever accomplished something(career wise, any career, never mind football) because of it. It's nonsense upon stilts, what you just wrote.

Some of you should just consider that you are wrong from time to time. It would save you a whole lot of the time and embarrassment of coming up with ludicrous theories like this.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Welbeck and Kagawa were substituted in that game, does it mean they are less intelligent than Valencia?
To be honest I really don’t understand why he gets so many chances and minutes. It’s like running in straight line is good enough to warrant a place in first eleven, although his final ball is abysmal. I really think he would be useful against tired opposition, but that’s it.

Yep. That does seem to be the case alright.

 

[Nighteyes]

He's absolutely appalling at everything he's supposed to be good at. His only real attribute these days is carrying the ball forward before he smashes it against the full back's shins. And while carrying the ball forward is useful in certain games, more often than not we need hell of a lot more from a United winger.

 

[Shark]

No because he's clearly an intelligent footballer. There's a reason first Ferguson, then Moyes and now Giggs all evidently rate him much higher than the resident Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime on redcafe.

You'll note that Giggs kept him on for the full 90 against Norwich, despite subbing off three other attacking players. Why would that happen to a player that fits the description you just gave?

Ok then, as an attacking winger I don't believe that he's intelligent. As in, what he's required to succeed at on the pitch in an attacking sense. I get that he's rated for other reasons, but an example such as him drilling the ball multiple times against a right back without trying to do anything else tells me that he doesn't have much of a footballing brain.

I don't rate him as a United winger anymore, I don't really care if Giggs, SAF or Moyes do/did.

 

[Pexbo]

No because he's clearly an intelligent footballer. There's a reason first Ferguson, then Moyes and now Giggs all evidently rate him much higher than the resident Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime on redcafe.

You'll note that Giggs kept him on for the full 90 against Norwich, despite subbing off three other attacking players. Why would that happen to a player that fits the description you just gave?

It's got nothing to do with footballing intelligence, it comes down to him and Young having what we are incredibly short of: Pace.

That's the single reason that they are played because without pace in wide areas we are predictable and struggle to create anything.

They are the only options for us right now because of how we play and because of the limitations the other 8 outfield positions have.


Just look at who Fergie tried to sign when everyone was talking about the midfield and having enough wing options and it will give you an idea of his confidence in them. Lucas, Hazard, Sanchez all courted and missed beaten to by other clubs in Fergie's last two years.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's got nothing to do with footballing intelligence, it comes down to him and Young having what we are incredibly short of: Pace.

That's the single reason that they are played because without pace in wide areas we are predictable and struggle to create anything.

They are the only options for us right now because of how we play and because of the limitations the other 8 outfield positions have.


Just look at who Fergie tried to sign when everyone was talking about the midfield and having enough wing options and it will give you an idea of his confidence in them. Lucas, Hazard, Sanchez all courted and missed beaten to by other clubs in Fergie's last two years.

Do you think Nani lacks pace?

 

[Pexbo]

Do you think Nani lacks pace?

I think he lacks fitness. When he's been able to get to match fitness he's always been first choice.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think he lacks fitness. When he's been able to get to match fitness he's always been first choice.

Nope. That's not true at all.

Besides, whenever Nani has got a run of games it's invariably been as well as Valencia rather than instead of him. Fergie even used to pick Valencia on Nani's "preferred" flank.

 

[kps88]

I think Valencia is quicker and stronger than Nani. When Rooney was asked to pick one team mate's attribute he could have, he picked Valencia's pace.

He's also more disciplined when it comes to maintaining our width and always giving the team an outlet. It's just a shame his final ball is non existent.

 

[Aboutreika18]

You're not really beating this drum, are you, Pogue?

He's been below par for the past couple of seasons compared to his first three seasons where he was a serious threat to defenders, able to beat them either through his pace or strength and deliver consistent service into the box, something which he hasn't done in ages.

He is preferred because he is a winger that stays wide and stretches defences, a regular feature of Fergie's sides over the years.If we had someone better at doing that in our side, someone like Fiorentina's Cuadrado who plays a similar role but is just much better at it, he'd be second choice.

I think it's time for us to move forward. If we are going to play with narrower wide players, we have the personnel. If we're going to continue to use one traditional winger on one flank, it's time to bring in someone better because our attacking play has deteriorated the past couple of seasons while Valencia has been consistently picked.

 

[Bobcat]

Well, I'm rarely accused of being a nice fella, so I wouldn't know from personal experience, however I am acquainted with a couple people universally described as such, and I can tell you non of them ever accomplished something(career wise, any career, never mind football) because of it. It's nonsense upon stilts, what you just wrote.

Some of you should just consider that you are wrong from time to time. It would save you a whole lot of the time and embarrassment of coming up with ludicrous theories like this.

Do you honestly think him being so humble and firing his agent has not bought him some extra credit among the fans and staff? Imagine if he were a real c*nt like Suarez, but playing just as badly. IMO he would be out the doors a long time ago.

Besides, i did not say him being nice was THE reason he still plays here, but i suspect it has helped him. Frankly i have no idea why he still plays so much, he must show something in training he does not convert to the pitch. I saw some stats a while ago and IIRC he produced something (goal/assist) every 5 matches or so. For a top-team winger that is just unacceptable

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think Valencia is quicker and stronger than Nani. When Rooney was asked to pick one team mate's attribute he could have, he picked Valencia's pace.
He's also more disciplined when it comes to maintaining our width and always giving the team an outlet. It's just a shame his final ball is non existent.

Yep, which brings me back to this crazy idea that he lacks intelligence. He's actually one of our most disciplined and intelligent players. You see it in his choice of pass too. Very high pass completion (if you ignore the crosses, that is!) and usually chooses the right option. Then there's his defensive attributes, which are about more than just getting stuck in. He's great at anticipating danger and dropping back to help out the back four when needed. Very clever movement and positioning in our own half.

His final ball has gone to shite, though. That's a real problem. For me this is more about him struggling to beat that last defender. Perhaps because he's lost a bit of pace. He was never an amazing crosser of the ball but seemed to be able to beat his man a lot more and get crosses in without anyone closing him down. Now he seems to be needing to hit crosses in before he beats his man and lacks the quality of delivery to whip it round them, Beckham style, so it hits the closest defender far too often.