Antwerp

[Forevergiggs]

It's all about the Benjamins.

Some championship clubs clubs have higher revenues than a lot of LaLiga clubs. Even bottom PL clubs are rich compared to their peers in other countries. They can afford to pay higher salaries and hence can attract talent from all over.

English players stay local because of that, not because they cannot adjust.

 

[Brightonian]

We are talking about young footballers here. Look at the paucity of English players who seek their fortunes abroad, the number that go abroad and are successful over a period of years is even smaller.

That's got nothing to do with whether the English are able to settle in abroad, though. It's due to the Premier League - possibly the best league in the world, or at least one of the top few, and certainly the most 'buying' league. The German and Spanish top divisions are full of German and Spanish players, respectively, and don't look to bring in foreign talent nearly as often as the PL. The PL brings in a huge proportion of its talent from abroad. So if you're already here, you're highly unlikely to move.

It's like saying 'Barcelona youth players hardly ever move to other clubs.' It's not because as a group they have trouble adjusting to different dressing rooms, it's because they're already at the 'destination' club.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

That's because they don't need to in large part really. They get paid the most anywhere at a young age, and there are enough clubs in England that get decent support/crowds and play at a competitive standard.

Why would they leave their home country to go abroad, when they can even move to bigger clubs in the same if they want too ?

To explore new cultures and different styles of football. Of course that would be if they were expansive worldly thinkers, and of course, the vast majority of young English footballers are not, which is my whole point.

It's like saying 'Barcelona youth players hardly ever move to other clubs.' It's not because as a group they have trouble adjusting to different dressing rooms, it's because they're already at the 'destination' club.

Gerard Pique, Cesc Fabregas, Suso and Juan Roman are just a few Spanish youth players who have made the move over here in recent years. There were a number more at Arsenal too. Who are their English counterparts? Please don't name lad from Leeds as he is half Spanish.

 

[Brightonian]

To explore new cultures and different styles of football. Of course that would be if they were expansive worldly thinkers, and of course, the vast majority of young English footballers are not, which is my whole point.
Gerard Pique, Cesc Fabregas, Suso and Juan Roman are just a few Spanish youth players who have made the move over here in recent years. There were a number more at Arsenal too. Who are their English counterparts? Please don't name lad from Leeds as he is half Spanish.

I'm talking about permanent moves, not Barca's increasingly transparent quasi-loans. Anyway, either way you prove my point - I was giving Barcelona as an analogue of the PL, and the way in which it is a 'destination', so that once you're there you stay there if you're good enough. Naming some players who have come to England only backs that up.

The flaw in the analogy is that Barca is a destination due to being the best football club in the world. The PL is a destination for a mixture of reasons - being one of the best is certainly important, and its notoriety as 'the best' in so many countries also contributes. But as ForeverGiggs points out, being far and away the richest league in the world is probably the biggest factor.

To explore new cultures and different styles of football. Of course that would be if they were expansive worldly thinkers, and of course, the vast majority of young English footballers are not, which is my whole point.

So all the young footballers who aren't from England are enlightened world travellers then, who come to 'explore new cultures and different styles of football'? Mario Balotelli? Samir Nasri? Luis Suarez? You're talking absolute shite.

I've yet to hear a young foreigner, interviewed for the first time about their experience of England, saying: 'The style of football here is so different, I find it fascinating,' or 'I haven't been to the Tate Modern yet, but the National Portrait Gallery was brilliant, so I'm going to hit up the Tate as soon as I get the chance.'

Almost universally, it tends to be 'It rains too much here.'

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

I'm talking about permanent moves, not Barca's increasingly transparent quasi-loans. Anyway, either way you prove my point - I was giving Barcelona as an analogue of the PL, and the way in which it is a 'destination', so that once you're there you stay there if you're good enough. Naming some players who have come to England only backs that up.

The flaw in the analogy is that Barca is a destination due to being the best football club in the world. The PL is a destination for a mixture of reasons - being one of the best is certainly important, and its notoriety as 'the best' in so many countries also contributes. But as ForeverGiggs points out, being far and away the richest league in the world is probably the biggest factor.



So all the young footballers who aren't from England are enlightened world travellers then, who come to 'explore new cultures and different styles of football'? Mario Balotelli? Samir Nasri? Luis Suarez? You're talking absolute shite.

I've yet to hear a young foreigner, interviewed for the first time about their experience of England, saying: 'The style of football here is so different, I find it fascinating,' or 'I haven't been to the Tate Modern yet, but the National Portrait Gallery was brilliant, so I'm going to hit up the Tate as soon as I get the chance.'

Almost universally, it tends to be 'It rains too much here.'

I may be talking shite but I am certainly in good company. Arsenal have signed quite a few young Barca stars on permanent deals and who had a chance at Barca, don't make me dig out the names. Pique and Cesc were not quasi loan deals, in fact Barca introduced the recent 'quasi loan deals' because of those particular events.

I was told by the parent of a Man Utd youth player, a player who went to Antwerp in a group, that the lads hated it over there. I was wondering if that is why we have drastically reduced loans out there since that group went.

 

[Cevno]

To explore new cultures and different styles of football. Of course that would be if they were expansive worldly thinkers, and of course, the vast majority of young English footballers are not, which is my whole point.

Moving abroad at 16 is a big risk, and change with whole families in most cases. Why would you take it for no clear benefit, when you can have all of that closer to home ?

Gerard Pique, Cesc Fabregas, Suso and Juan Roman are just a few Spanish youth players who have made the move over here in recent years. There were a number more at Arsenal too. Who are their English counterparts? Please don't name lad from Leeds as he is half Spanish.

Eric Dier in Portugal. Anyway,Cesc moved to England because they were getting good money and their path to the first team was easier at Arsenal.
Pique moved due to his father/gradfather losing in club politics or something.

Suso was at Cadiz, so it was a move up for him and Juan Roman moved from Espanyol and then went back to Barca.

In England firstly 16 year olds with talent get decent contracts. And if they want to move for whatever reason to get first team football early, they can move to other clubs or lower league. See Tom Ince for example who moved to Blackpool from Liverpool.

In Spain most of the talent also moves to Barca/Madrid at a young age due to them having the biggest networks and being ridiculous support in terms of ratio compared to other clubs. So then due to them not giving contracts or money to all those young players, some moving due to competition is not something unexpected.

 

[KM]

Youngsters from Spain come to England because they get a shitload money as compared to staying there.

English players don't go outside country because EPL is the richest league in the world and they won't get the similar wages abroad.

 

[Cevno]

Youngsters from Spain come to England because they get a shitload money as compared to staying there.

English players don't go outside country because EPL is the richest league in the world and they won't get the similar wages abroad.

But they should be wordly thinkers apparently, and move abroad at 16 away from their families on less money with their career's hanging in balance to explore new cultures.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

But they should be wordly thinkers apparently, and move abroad at 16 away from their families on less money with their career's hanging in balance to explore new cultures.

I never said that they should be anything, this is an unnecessary aside from my original thought.

English youth players in England do not get massive wages either, they get a very small wage, as do the foreign lads in their own country. The foreign lads who come over do are handsomely rewarded which causes some disquiet with the local lads.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

I'm sorry but there is no evidence of any kind to suggest that young English players cannot adapt to other cultures.

I have interviewed every player who has gone to Antwerp and the overriding feedback was that it was a good experience and gave them competitive football, training with adults every day....and a chance to further their careers.

Most young people in Belgium speak English and the language wasn't an issue.

Some players didn't like it and couldn't settle but that can happen to anyone...look at Etzaz Hussain, Jonny Rodlund, Zoran Tosic to name but three. All struggled to adapt in Manchester which is renowned for being a 'family' club.

Finally, lots of young English people go on scholarships of different types to countries all over the world. Most do ok.

But if you are progressing in a clubs Academy here in England why would you want to go abroad?

Rossi, Pique and others came to United to get a chance of first team football that they weren't getting at their previous clubs. Rossi had to go as Parma went into liquidation and Pique wasn't happy at Barca at the time. Rossi was born in the US, went to school there so hardly needed to come to Manchester for any cultural benefits.

He came because United made a good offer.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

I have interviewed every player who has gone to Antwerp and the overriding feedback was that it was a good experience and gave them competitive football, training with adults every day....and a chance to further their careers.

You represent the press (I assume), they will only give you the formulaic media training answer. I am only saying what I was told by someone who the player in question would obviously be more candid with. After the loans to Antwerp dried up I wondered if this was the reason. I never said that it was the reason. Do you know why they have dried up?

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

You represent the press (I assume), they will only give you the formulaic media training answer. I am only saying what I was told by someone who the player in question would obviously be more candid with. After the loans to Antwerp dried up I wondered if this was the reason. I never said that it was the reason. Do you know why they have dried up?

The coaching staff think that the level of football played by Antwerp in the lower reaches of the Belgian Second Division isn't good enough.

I'm not with the press.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

The coaching staff think that the level of football played by Antwerp in the lower reaches of the Belgian Second Division isn't good enough.

I'm not with the press.

I assume that don't keep the interviews for your own personal records though. I don't really care that much about this debate. I was simply told that he and the lads that were out there were not enjoying the lifestyle over there, they were bored with nothing to do in between the football. Of course, you are probably right, Antwerp are not good enough for most of the lads. I just thought that home based loans where the lads were near families, friends and girlfriends might have been preferred.

 

[NM]

I assume that don't keep the interviews for your own personal records though. I don't really care that much about this debate. I was simply told that he and the lads that were out there were not enjoying the lifestyle over there, they were bored with nothing to do in between the football. Of course, you are probably right, Antwerp are not good enough for most of the lads. I just thought that home based loans where the lads were near families, friends and girlfriends might have been preferred.

Mr MUJAC is a MAnchester United youth historian. I would trust his word on things like this.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

Mr MUJAC is a MAnchester United youth historian. I would trust his word on things like this.

I do trust his word. On the matter of what I was told by the parent of the player though, I absolutely believe them. Modern players are media trained, from a young age too, they exceptionally poor interviewees when you are looking for a bit on honesty that would go against the party line. It is something that annoys most journalists.

 

[NM]

I do trust his word. On the matter of what I was told by the parent of the player though, I absolutely believe them. Modern players are media trained, from a young age too, they exceptionally poor interviewees when you are looking for a bit on honesty that would go against the party line. It is something that annoys most journalists.

Read up on MUJAC, what he does and his knowledge. Then you will realize that he will get the true opinion. Until then, pointless to question without knowing.

 

[MPTutd]

They have just announced Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink as their new manager!

 

[Cristiano_RAFC]

A lot of changes going on in Antwerp as far as football is concerned. The big rival of Antwerp, Beerschot is bankrupt and now fans of Antwerp are hoping to finally get the full support of cityhall and the local sponsors, because now there's only one team left that truly has the potential to be a big team, which is what you'd expect the second biggest city of Belgium to have.

Anyway.. Last week it was announced that Antwerp has started a partnership with Saif Rubie, a player agent who is said to be able to provide Antwerp the players to get them back in the highest division. Haisselbank as manager is the first thing that comes out of this partnership.

I don't know how this will affect the relationship with United, but as far as I read on the Royal Antwerp forums from those that are supposed to be ITK, it should improve it. I don't know if that is true, but if anyone knows more about this Saif Rubie and the agency FutureGenSports (other than what google provides) I'd be happy to learn more about it.