"Anyone Butt"?

[singapore]

I wonder what Sir Nicholas of Gorton has done to incur the wrath of SAF.Phil Nev,Djemba Djemba,Kleberson (impressed with him on Sat) and Fletcher all get chosen before Butt.

One for the January sales ? I seriously hope not but as you guys know, it's just business for the clubs and the lure of getting 3-5 mil for him may get the Board to sell him.

 

[Gazza]

Last season off the back of that plaudit-grabbing World Cup it looked as if all sorts of doors had opened for him - the season was there for the taking. Then he got injured. In stepped Phil Neville and voila, now you see the first team spot, now you don't. I think that was crucial - Nicky had an opportunity to establish himself and make the slot his own but was unlucky. Now he's falling behind in the pecking order. He has to take his chances (will probably start on Wednesday) - he has experience over Kleb, Fletch and Djemba so I expect he'll get a few games. He should stay - you know the old saying, 30 games for United is worth 60 somewhere else.

 

[Reddevilman]

I dont think he'll get sold simply because for all the seasons hes been here, hes never really been a first team regular yet hes still here. After all those seasons he remained royal to Utd so i dont think fergie would sell him

 

[jayjay]

I've never really rated him.. He's always had a tendency to over-complicate things which leads to him losing posession an awful lot. He's also a very poor passer of the ball. I really don't see him getting many games this season. I would say that Keane, Neville, Fortune, Kleb and Djemba are all ahead of him right now, and possibly Fletch as well if Fergie decides to give him a go in the centre to prepare him for when he's bulked up a bit.

 

[MadDogg]

It's as simple as Phil and Fortune in particular have been better in the same position. I would also say Djemba has been slightly better, and from what we saw from Kleberson on Saturday he is another that will soon be ahead in the pecking order. Fletcher doesn't really play in the same position, even on the rare occasion when he has played in the centre it's been in a more offensive role.

Butt has always been a great team player, somebody who doesn't mind sitting on the bench for the majority of games but will be ready and willing to give it his all when he's given a chance. Unfortunately, his best isn't really good enough to cut in as a first team player at Man Utd. Really, it's just one aspect of his game which lets him down, and that (of course) is his passing. When playing in his position you don't need to have Beckham/Zidane like passing, but you can't be giving it away constantly like Butt does.

 

[RUnited]

you know the old saying, 30 games for United is worth 60 somewhere else.

Unfortunately with the wonderful form of Neville and what we have seen in Kleberson plus Dj Dj tough tackling ability, I'm not so sure Butt will get that many games for us this season.

If he should stay this season I feel SAF will only give him enough games to win the Championship medal with us (if we're going to win it of course).

I don't see him staying past this season and would not be surprised if he was sold in January. If Rio is really banned then the board could really use the 5m we're bound to get from Butt's sale.

 

[devilish]

Butt will find it hard to regain his place. I mean, he isn’t neither the most technical gifted of the lot nor the strongest one.

Yet, in that specific role, just behind Keane, you don’t need to be the toughest defensive midfielder, or possess a Kleberson’s like technique and passing ability. It’s a “modest” role whose aim is basically to win back the ball. A massive role that a 32 year old Keano is finding it hard to cover alone

I believe that the reason that P Neville has made his that role is that, he was the only one capable to perfectly understand the needs of that role and therefore fulfill its aims.
Let us be honest with ourselves, Phil is neither the toughest of the lot nor the most gifted, and yet, by keeping things simple, he is currently (and rightly so) the first teamer in a role that is so much contested.

If Butt wants to regain his place, he needs to change his attitude, play on his strengths and twart forever those 30 yard passing and those shots out of the box, that only contribute to make him look ridiculous. Once, Butt changes his attitude (as he did during the WC) it would be very difficult for anyone, to stop him from winning back his role next to Keano.

 

[uranushk1]

Butt won't be sold as long as:
1. He doesn't want to leave himself,
2. He doesn't write a book to critize the manager,
3. He doesn't appear at the headline of the newspaper every other day,
and 4. He doesn't take any illegal drug.

Before this season, I've heard people say "Phil Neville will be sold" nearly ten times per month, 100 times per season. It's obviously the same group of people who turn against Butt now.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Given that Butt is 28/9 and we have brought in Kleberson and DJ2 you'd have to think his role will be extremely limited. PNeville seems to have taken the defensive midfielder role alongside Keane, and the more creative options would be to have Fortune, Kleberson, or Djemba alongside Keane.

 

[mu77]

nick is red down to the soles of his feet. he doesn't complecate things he keeps it simple. and as we saw last term all cmf's will play. he's really only behind PN not all those others. D2 aint ready yet to be the "new" nicky so IMO he stays.

 

[devilish]

nick is red down to the soles of his feet. he doesn't complecate things he keeps it simple. and as we saw last term all cmf's will play. he's really only behind PN not all those others. D2 aint ready yet to be the "new" nicky so IMO he stays.

While I agree with you that Butt’s career at OT is far from finished, I have to disagree with you on keeping things simple. I mean, do you watch the lad play! Ok his work rate is world class, his commitment crystalline and regarding his marking, it’s only second to Keano himself.
Butt reminds me a lot of Gattuso, committed, fiery, and a player that once he sets a target, he would stick to it until he actually kills the player out of the game. Those are Butt’s strengths, the strengths that made him the BEST defensive midfielder during the WC.

Yet its also true that Butt does try to take the spectacular option at times. It’s in there were Philip Neville takes the edge on Nicky Butt.For example, let us take the Real game. Butt was constantly winning the ball against players like Zidane etc and yet, he was named as one of the worst players during that game. Why? Because he kept losing possession by giving those long passes and those shots from out of the box that ended up at our opponents.

Butt is a reliable defensive midfielder but he will never be a Beckham or a Giggs. No disrespect for him, I mean, no one asks these things from a defensive midfielder, and yet its this the lesson that Butt needs to learn if he wants to succeed at OT

 

[mu77]

Butt does try to take the spectacular option at times.

i've nary missed a MUFC match in years and NB and "spectacular option" don't mix. sorry but we'll disagree on this one. in fact what made his WC2002 was he kept it simple. granted he's not at the top of his game but he's 2nd choice to PN in the dmf spot.

 

[Julian Denny]

I would say it's a close run thing between Butt and Phil at the moment. On balance I would also say Nicky's the better player but Phil seems to have slotted into that midfield holding role alongside Roy brilliantly this season which together with that never say die attitude has put him ahead in the pecking order. However I think it would be a mistake to sell Nicky simply because if Phil was injured or needed a break, I don't think Dj 2 or Kleberson have, understandably, yet shown they have what it takes to fill that role. Then again it will not be surprising when Fergie is looking for a striker in January for the Plc to once again point out to him that with an apparent surfeit of midfielders, getting rid of Butt could be good business !

 

[Mr. Bungle]

To suggest that Djemba-Djemba is a better player in defensive midfield than Nicky Butt is laughable - you've all got short memories of how good Nicky can be when fit - i.e. the entire 2001-2002 season.

Hats off to Phil, who is playing really well at the moment and lets hope it isn't just temporary form.

Phil plays the role in front of the back-four alongside Roy Keane - Nicky Butt does it all on his own for England.

 

[devilish]

Butt does try to take the spectacular option at times.

i've nary missed a MUFC match in years and NB and "spectacular option" don't mix. sorry but we'll disagree on this one. in fact what made his WC2002 was he kept it simple. granted he's not at the top of his game but he's 2nd choice to PN in the dmf spot.

But that what angers me regarding Butt.

I know his potentiality (he showed that during the WC) , and deep down I feel that if only he could stick to his strengths he would surely keep P Nev and co on the bench for good. Yet for a strange reason, he always seems to try the spectacular, which, at the end of the day, it always result into us losing the possession of the ball

 

[devilish]

To suggest that Djemba-Djemba is a better player in defensive midfield than Nicky Butt is laughable - you've all got short memories of how good Nicky can be when fit - i.e. the entire 2001-2002 season.

Hats off to Phil, who is playing really well at the moment and lets hope it isn't just temporary form.

Phil plays the role in front of the back-four alongside Roy Keane - Nicky Butt does it all on his own for England.

Not better, only physically stronger

 

[rOnaldo[7]]

nick is red down to the soles of his feet. he doesn't complecate things he keeps it simple. and as we saw last term all cmf's will play. he's really only behind PN not all those others. D2 aint ready yet to be the "new" nicky so IMO he stays.

Yes..exactly..his experience and loyalty to the club is invaluable..

 

[Mr. Bungle]

If we drew AC Milan or Juventus in the Champions Leahue Quarter Finals, would you seriously choose Djemba-Djemba over Nicky Butt?

Hypothetically would you choose Phil over Nicky? Possibly.

Kleberson? Not at the moment.

If we have any aspirations of winning the Champions League in the next couple of seasons (which I seriously doubt at the moment) we need to forget about our 'developing' and currently substandard squad players bought "for the future" and start thinking about who can benefit our team at the present moment.

Citing Djemba-Djemba and an abundance of 'okay' midfielders as a good reason for selling Nicky Butt, is like citing Daniel Nardiello as a valid reason for selling Ruud.

 

[Travis Bickle]

If we drew AC Milan or Juventus in the Champions Leahue Quarter Finals, would you seriously choose Djemba-Djemba over Nicky Butt?

Hypothetically would you choose Phil over Nicky? Possibly.

Kleberson? Not at the moment.

If we have any aspirations of winning the Champions League in the next couple of seasons (which I seriously doubt at the moment) we need to forget about our 'developing' and currently substandard squad players bought "for the future" and start thinking about who can benefit our team at the present moment.

Citing Djemba-Djemba and an abundance of 'okay' midfielders as a good reason for selling Nicky Butt, is like citing Daniel Nardiello as a valid reason for selling Ruud.

Kleberson has won a world cup.

Can't really see Nicky Butt in the Brazil team.

Butt has always been a squad player rather than an automatic first choice. Alex seems to rate PN in front of him at the moment.

 

[mu77]

so travis you'd have D2 and or kleb in vs those teams? i'd have butt in that side in a heart beat. kleb ain't a dmf is he? and D2 isn't ready. and i'd also say i'd take butt in a physical game over D2 as well.

 

[Travis Bickle]

so travis you'd have D2 and or kleb in vs those teams? i'd have butt in that side in a heart beat. kleb ain't a dmf is he? and D2 isn't ready. and i'd also say i'd take butt in a physical game over D2 as well.

I never mentioned D2. Kleberson played holding in the WC. And CL football is rarely a physical battle.

NB form was pretty poor earlier this season, at the moment if it was a "physical battle" I'd take Keane and PN or Keane and Fortune. AT the moment AF takes Keane and PN.

 

[mu77]

me too - they are the best pairing on the side. i thought it was gilbero that was more of the holding middy? and as far as QF man has he been this yrs o'shea (as in suprise)?

 

[Reiko]

I have no idea whether Butt has a future at United, but one thing I know for sure is I'll be upset if Butt goes. Can you imagine Butt in Spurs, Charlton or other clubs shirt? I can't. He is United through and through, the same can be said for the Nevilles, Giggs and Scholes. I hope they can all spend the rest of their careers here, even though that is very unlikely.

 

[mu77]

here , here

 

[Mr. Bungle]

Kleberson has won a world cup.

David May has won the Champions League, but Sol Campbell is in front of him in the England team.

 

[devilish]

Its ridiculous to say that the difference between Djemba and Butt is as big as the difference between Nardiello and RVN. I mean, ok, I agree that we shouldn’t sell Butt until we have concrete proof that Djemba and Kleberson can do the job, but comparing a confirmed international with a promising youth is RIDICULOUS.

While as stated, I disagree about selling Butt before they are absolutely certain that Kleb and Djemba can do the job, as an overall player I think that Djemba would prove to be a better player than Butt. I mean, the Cameroonian international is as hard as nails, know how to move forward with the ball in an elegant way, and possess a good pass. Ok, he will need time to settle down to the English pace, yet, he has age at his side, right?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

For me you only sale but if you are getting either Scott Parker or Xabi Alonso as a replacement. Else don't bother. He is the best man to man marking defensive midfielder we have got period. And the most unpsectacular who does what is needed. He lets the magicians do weave their wands as he does the dirty work. (kinda like Becks at Madrid )(when on form) The rest are all the dorminant type, attacking type. Thus says the chief.

 

[Travis Bickle]

David May has won the Champions League, but Sol Campbell is in front of him in the England team.

May didn't actually play.

Your point?

 

[Travis Bickle]

I have no idea whether Butt has a future at United, but one thing I know for sure is I'll be upset if Butt goes. Can you imagine Butt in Spurs, Charlton or other clubs shirt? I can't. He is United through and through, the same can be said for the Nevilles, Giggs and Scholes. I hope they can all spend the rest of their careers here, even though that is very unlikely.

Sparky was United though and through. David Beckham was.

Things change and our midfield has a lot of players around thirty. OGS, Keane, Butt and Giggs.

 

[Jopub the Gooner]

Last ..........you know the old saying, 30 games for United is worth 60 somewhere else.

Classic

Absolute classic, clearly an 'old saying' that only you seem to know about

Haahahahaa

 

[Mr. Bungle]

May didn't actually play.

Your point?

Err, simple really - you seem to think that Kleberson is a better option for United becuase he has won the World Cup and Butt hasn't, so therefore David May must be a better choice for England because he won the Champions League and Campbell hasn't.

 

[Reiko]

Sparky was United though and through. David Beckham was.

Things change and our midfield has a lot of players around thirty. OGS, Keane, Butt and Giggs.

Of course I know that. I did say I think it is very unlikely that they will see out their careers at United, didn't I?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Err, simple really - you seem to think that Kleberson is a better option for United becuase he has won the World Cup and Butt hasn't, so therefore David May must be a better choice for England because he won the Champions League and Campbell hasn't.

moron. Keleberson lieterally WON the world cup for Brazil. May hardly played for us. Butt is no way near as good as Kleberson. Just go watch a few of Brazil's matches at the last world cup especiallky the final then speak

 

[Travis Bickle]

Err, simple really - you seem to think that Kleberson is a better option for United becuase he has won the World Cup and Butt hasn't, so therefore David May must be a better choice for England because he won the Champions League and Campbell hasn't.

The point is not that Kleberson won the world cup, the point is he was in the best team in the world.

Do you think Butt would get into that team?

May was a bit part player and not on the pitch for that game. So there is no point to make.

 

[mu77]

well w/keano not making the trip and him talking to fergie he's starting in greece! go get em nicky!

 

[kf]

From the Daily Mail:

Nicky Butt is at the crossroads of his Manchester United career after taking his Old Trafford grievances into a showdown meeting with manager Sir Alex Ferguson. As he reflected on his mounting frustration under Ferguson, Butt confirmed he was finding it hard to take, and admitted: "I would be lying if I said I hadn't been gutted about not playing sometimes and wondered what was going to happen," said Butt. "I will bide my time, work hard in training and try to make sure that when I do get an opportunity, I take it."

While Nicky is prepared to keep this sort of attitude, he'll continue to be worth his place in the Manchester United squad. He's due to start in Greece tomorrow and I for one don't expect him to let us down.

 

[Travis Bickle]

From the Daily Mail:


While Nicky is prepared to keep this sort of attitude, he'll continue to be worth his place in the Manchester United squad. He's due to start in Greece tomorrow and I for one don't expect him to let us down.

And he managed to be our worst player.

 

[kf]

And he managed to be our worst player.

Can't argue with that sadly!

 

[green demon]

I have no idea whether Butt has a future at United, but one thing I know for sure is I'll be upset if Butt goes. Can you imagine Butt in Spurs, Charlton or other clubs shirt? I can't. He is United through and through, the same can be said for the Nevilles, Giggs and Scholes. I hope they can all spend the rest of their careers here, even though that is very unlikely.

I agree with that because I remember when Brian Kidd (another lifelong Stretford Ender) was sold, it just didn't seem right. He never produced the goods away from OT either - his heart wasn't in it, I believe.

 

[Red Dreams]

Any player needs competetive games. Butt needs to get some regular runs in the team. With the current Phil Neville and keano combo going well Butt will have to wait his turn. Look at Forlan. He has got a run in the team and has done well. Butt has not become a poor player overnight. But to be fair he has never really been a first 11 starter has he?