Are Brazil still elite on the international stage?

[Don Alfredo]

Since 2002 (last win)

WC 2006 loss in QF
WC 2010 loss in QF
WC 2014 loss in SF (1:7)
WC 2018 loss in QF

Plus their Copa record since 2007 (last win)

Copa 2011 loss in QF
Copa 2015 loss in QF
Copa 2016 out in group stages

Adds up to just one 4th place in an international tournament after 2007 and a big list of underwhelming runs. No final in 10 years and counting

 

[Grinner]

They have certainly lost their flair.

 

[AshRK]

Their 2002 made me fall in love with this game. Will always have a soft spot for them but not with neymar rolling around like a bitch.

 

[shamans]

People can blame tactics but there is a lack of quality in Brazil right now.

 

[Trophy Room]

Shadow of their former selves really.

 

[Logit]

They definitely do not capture the imagination anymore as past Brazilian teams did.

When Brazil were playing at a world cup it felt like the everyone in the world was was watching.

 

[el3mel]

They still reach advanced stages so sure they're. They have been just boring and lame to watch, with crap attitude and antics as well.

 

[Treble]

They have arguably the best team. Their problem was that Casemiro didn't play. They still created enough chances to win vs Belgium.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Since 2002 (last win)

WC 2006 loss in QF
WC 2010 loss in QF
WC 2014 loss in SF (1:7)
WC 2018 loss in QF

Plus their Copa record since 2007 (last win)

Copa 2011 loss in QF
Copa 2015 loss in QF
Copa 2016 out in group stages

Adds up to just one 4th place in an international tournament after 2007 and a big list of underwhelming runs. No final in 10 years and counting

Its borderline isn't it.

 

[izec]

People can blame tactics but there is a lack of quality in Brazil right now.

Dont think so. Where do they lack quality? Their top 15 players play all in top clubs in Europe

 

[Massive Spanner]

They have arguably the best team. Their problem was that Casemiro didn't play. They still created enough chances to win vs Belgium.

Nah France have the best team.

 

[ivaldo]

People can blame tactics but there is a lack of quality in Brazil right now.

There really isn't. Just look at the players that didn't even make it to the finals.

 

[golden_blunder]

Their problem is that this World Cup has shown that they lack a top class CF. Over relying on Neymar who imho is a little overrated

 

[FootballHQ]

They'll likely win Copa America next summer as they're hosting it.

Have underachieved in World cups since 2002 but no team gets to the final every time.

Problem in past is they've appointed poor managers which has limited potential of team. Between 2006-16 their two managers were Dunga in two spells and Big Phil in his second spell so that gives you an indication of a wasted decade and bizarre squad selections.

Could well come back and win in 2022 as they'll always have players in the 21-25 age bracket playing at good levels in europe ready to step up, need some fresh blood in defence so that will be refreshed and also central midfield.

 

[ti vu]

People can blame tactics but there is a lack of quality in Brazil right now.

It's tactic.

The lack of quality is one thing, but tactic is used to overcome shortcoming. Brazil is still built on individual's brilliance and when this quality is caught up by other teams, they're exposed tactically. Worse when Brazil is the underdog. They had talent leak like Jorginho, Diego Costa, Pepe... who would enable them a different approach in tactic. They didn't explore that options at young age leading to these players seek to play for other nations.

Belgium ain't exactly well crafted tactically, but some changes did catch Brazil off guard, and Brazil ain't much better than Belgium to get back

 

[el3mel]

People can blame tactics but there is a lack of quality in Brazil right now.

Their squad is on bar with France and Belgium. I don't find any position that they really lack in.

 

[Fenomeno9]

Brazil is gonna be favorite next World Cup and the one after that. Top clubs will still buy our talents and some of our current player play for some of the biggest clubs in the world. A loss to Belgium all of sudden doesn’t make us elite.

 

[Ban]

Their squad is on bar with France and Belgium. I don't find any position that they really lack in.

Striker position imo.

 

[JPRouve]

Brazil lacked intensity and tactical discipline, the players were too slow to position themselves offensively and defensively, they also didn't play with pace. Marcelo and Neymar seemed unfit too.

 

[VeevaVee]

They've lost their edge of incredible. Who hasn't though? There's far less iconic players around these (the kind that were iconic for a reason).

 

[el3mel]

Striker position imo.

Firmino and Jesus are better than the likes of Fred or Jo they have been playing with these last few years.

 

[Ban]

Firmino and Jesus are better than the likes of Fred or Jo they have been playing with these last few years.

Yeah but still not good enough. Firmino is not a classic striker and Jesus is meh at best.

 

[Carolina Red]

They’re definitely not the Samba Kings of old.

 

[BBRBB]

They're as good as anyone but were a bit unlucky this time.

If they keep building with Tite they have a shot at finding glory again.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

On paper, this side was far superior to the 2014 team. Yet, even tho they got humiliated 7-1 in 2014, this current side had a worse World Cup.

 

[Revan]

Brazil is gonna be favorite next World Cup and the one after that. Top clubs will still buy our talents and some of our current player play for some of the biggest clubs in the world. A loss to Belgium all of sudden doesn’t make us elite.

But a loss against France in 2006, followed by a lost against Holland in 2010, followed by a demolition from Germany and a lost against Holland in 2014, followed by a lost against Belgium now?

Brazil used to be relevant in World Cups a long time ago.

 

[Treble]

Who is supposed to be 'elite' though? The last winners of big competitions and the current semi finalists? Are Portugal still elite? Argentina? Germany finished 4th in their group. Are they elite?

 

[Bobski]

They are not what they were. They used to be the gold standard of football, the All Blacks of football really. Produced players with a potent mix of physicality and technique, played with flair, joy and a desire to entertain. That diminished a little during the 90's but that generation of Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldino, Cafu, Carlos, Kaka, even Denilson brought some of that feeling back. Current group aren't fit to lace their boots

 

[Revan]

Who is supposed to be 'elite' though? The last winners of big competitions and the current semi finalists? Are Portugal still elite? Argentina? Germany finished 4th in their group. Are they elite?

France is probably the only elite team. They really should have won the Euros 2 years ago, and looks the best team now.

Belgium look great but were disappointing in the previous competitions, so still early. Spain and Germany are past it.

 

[Moonred]

Of course. They were good tonight. A tweaked starting 11, a bit more luck, some decisions and a less of a selfish fanny in Neymar and they are through.

 

[Treble]

France is probably the only elite team. They really should have won the Euros 2 years ago, and looks the best team now.

Belgium look great but were disappointing in the previous competitions, so still early. Spain and Germany are past it.

How can only one team be elite, especially if they have won feck all? They had a poor game vs Portugal two years ago, nothing elite about it.

 

[Nikhil]

Since 2002 (last win)

WC 2006 loss in QF
WC 2010 loss in QF
WC 2014 loss in SF (1:7)
WC 2018 loss in QF

Plus their Copa record since 2007 (last win)

Copa 2011 loss in QF
Copa 2015 loss in QF
Copa 2016 out in group stages

Adds up to just one 4th place in an international tournament after 2007 and a big list of underwhelming runs. No final in 10 years and counting

They won the Olympic gold in 2016.

They also won the Confederations Cup in 2009 and 2013.

 

[VorZakone]

They had a few good chances today though.

 

[Fenomeno9]

But a loss against France in 2006, followed by a lost against Holland in 2010, followed by a demolition from Germany and a lost against Holland in 2014, followed by a lost against Belgium now?

Brazil used to be relevant in World Cups a long time ago.

We won absolutely nothing post 70 till 89 and didn’t win a World Cup till 94.

 

[Don Alfredo]

They won the Olympic gold in 2016.

They also won the Confederations Cup in 2009 and 2013.

Those tournaments are not considered elite

Other nations send youth teams there

 

[noodlehair]

They haven't had a world class or even decent centre forward since Ronaldo got fat. Jesus is merely ok...one of a large number of City players who seem to be inexplicably more productive when Pep is managing them.

They look like a confused team these days too. The flair has gone but the positional indiscipline that goes with it has remained. If you're going to have one and not the other you'd probably prefer it was the other way round.

Neymar just strikes me as someone trying too hard to be a superstar. Everything about him comes across a bit fake/pretend. The talent is there but his perofrmances come across like a narcisist who is given a dose of crack just before each game. Tonight was actually quite subdued by his standards...he kept going to create a scene but then realising his team were losing and confusing himself.

 

[txred]

I think that their recent generations, like happens with many of the top nations, have started to crack under the immense pressure that comes with being a team like Brazil. The 2010 and 2014 teams were poor, but 2006 and 2018 definitely should have been more successful than they were. Mind you, this particular team was still good tonight and probably should have beaten a very talented Belgium.

 

[Xyx]

I think Brazil were unlucky to lose today. They created lots of fairly good chances and conceded from an unfortunate own goal and a brilliant strike. On another day, Belgium could have easily lost if Brazil were even slightly more clinical.

 

[Eila]

Those tournaments are not considered elite

Other nations send youth teams there

Ehh not really. You did send a B team in 2017, but you sent a good team in 2005. Spain in 2009 sent a good team. As did Italy in 2013.
That said, you won't see players crying for losing that cup.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Surely a bad day to start this thread.
Belgium had to play out of their skins and they should thank the woeful finishers in Brazil like Jesus or Coutinho and their GK that they did not lose comfortably.
On another day, Brazil would have won 4-2