Are Bruno and Rashford a problem?

flappyjay

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Eth took the easy way out and he is paying for it. Our best form came with Bruno/Rashford playing their game it got us results and the manager threw everything else in the bin. Even decided he was going to make us the best transition team in the world. Its obvious that his system needs these 2 to play well, as the manager it falls on him. He should be building a team that relies less on miracle workers.
 

Chicharo

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Yes, they are A problem, among many problems that the club have.
When I watch Rash, it seems that I'm watching the same kid from 2016. He's quick, but encounters difficulty when trying to keep up with another player and often tends to move in a direct path with the ball. There's a good reason why he prefers playing as a striker
Bruno shouldn't start every game, let alone play for 90 minutes. His decisions on the pitch are questionable and tends to disappear in big games. And, I agree with Keano, he's not a captain material
 

Obligatory Nigel

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They are, of course, both a problem but they are not the only problems. I see their performances as symptoms of a greater malaise throughout the team. I see nervousness, indecision and a lack of clarity across the pitch. This lies at the feet of ETH. What lies at the feet of Rashford and Fernandes is to at least commit 100% to each game, to give ther all and to be professional. Rashford spat his dummy out sone time ago and I've long believed that far too much smoke has been blown up his arse. As a Mancunian I like nothing more than a local lad made good but if he is now downing tools it's time to make it clear he's to deliver or he's gone.

Keane has called it right on Fernandes - this is not a man temperamentally suitd to leading others. He does not have the character. If your captain isn't coping how does that feel and look to those who are looking to them for calm and strong leadership, solutions and on the field direction and guidance? Unfortunately we have few options elsewhere which is one example of our failed recruitment strategy. I'd like to see more leaders brought in. Strong characters. Players that look for and enjoy responsibility. Players that are committed. Those qualities are every bit as important as talent.
 

flappyjay

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Stop blaming the players who give their 100%.
This ridiculous season is purely on ETH. ETH’s vision, strategy, plan, and execution have not been working. It doesn’t mean he can’t adjust them to work out but the damage has been huge.
Over a year since his appointment we should be able to create chances without the need for individual brilliance from these 2 players.
 

Hammondo

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We will never properly progress with those 2, they are simply limited in their approach in a way that stops good football.
 

Dec9003

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The whole forward line is a problem, they’ve scored one goal between the lot of them. We’ve spent hideously under the current manager.
 

fergiewherearethou

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Eth took the easy way out and he is paying for it. Our best form came with Bruno/Rashford playing their game it got us results and the manager threw everything else in the bin. Even decided he was going to make us the best transition team in the world. Its obvious that his system needs these 2 to play well, as the manager it falls on him. He should be building a team that relies less on miracle workers.
Exactly this, last season we had a spine of Martinez, Casemiro and Rashford who played very well. This season the first is injured and the other 2 have massively dropped in form.
Bruno is losing form for the past 2 seasons but he is playing well for Portugal, that may raise some question marks regarding ETH.

The manager must have some fault in players losing form like that, you can't blame only them.

Also, transition or not, I don't see any system put in place by ETH, we can't defend well and our goals come from flukes or individual moments.
 

didz

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I don't think they're a problem, but our overdependence on them is. If Rashford isn't in a hotstreak we don't score and if Bruno isn't at his creative best, the former doesn't get the chance to anyway. You can say similar of Casemiro - unless he's available and at a superhuman level, we ship an insane number of chances. So basically, our system has 3 major points of failure right there.

As an aside, some of Rashford's best games have been off the bench, but we're robbed of that option because nobody is pushing him for his starting spot. He's a player that we'd probably get more out of if we used him less, and I think we'd actually find it easier to play him into form with fewer minutes.
 

Rockets Redglare

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As an aside, some of Rashford's best games have been off the bench, but we're robbed of that option because nobody is pushing him for his starting spot. He's a player that we'd probably get more out of if we used him less, and I think we'd actually find it easier to play him into form with fewer minutes.
Great point. I don’t rate Rashford much at all and would much prefer him to be dropped, but dropped for who?
Garnacho is just as bad when he starts, Martial is finished and Sancho is Sancho.

We looked stacked for options from the left at the start of the season and now we’re really struggling.
 

Swiss_Red89

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I don't think they're a problem, but our overdependence on them is. If Rashford isn't in a hotstreak we don't score and if Bruno isn't at his creative best, the former doesn't get the chance to anyway. You can say similar of Casemiro - unless he's available and at a superhuman level, we ship an insane number of chances. So basically, our system has 3 major points of failure right there.

As an aside, some of Rashford's best games have been off the bench, but we're robbed of that option because nobody is pushing him for his starting spot. He's a player that we'd probably get more out of if we used him less, and I think we'd actually find it easier to play him into form with fewer minutes.
As i already claimed a few times in the Rashford performance thread: Garnacho should start here and there, even though he also made a step backwards this season unfortunately. But still, imo he should start him here and there and bring Rashford of the bench.
I'm sure that would also benefit Rashford as he would get more chances to score against tired legs and that would increase his confidence.

Hope he will finally do it vs Newcastle on wednesday.
 

UpWithRivers

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I created a thread a while back asking is the 'United way' killing us. Rashford is seen as epitome of the 'United Way'. He is our youth player come good. Our Messi. Our Ronaldo. Im 100 percent sure this is one of the very few things Ten Haag or any manager has 0 control over. No manager can or will get rid of Rashford or they would be sacked. Im convinced of that. The only way Rashford goes is if another star youth player appears. Not an average one. A star player. Now because Rashford is our star player he is allowed to take liberties. Just like you don't expect Messi to run and defend. We allow one player i.e. Rashford a free reign. We dont want or need him to do anything other than be Rashford. And Rashford is a wide striker. Thats what he is. He is not work rate. He is not a crosser. He is not a passer. Sure every now and again he can and gets assists etc. But in essence he is a break away with his pace and score player. Added to this since Rashford is our King then the manager is forced to build around him and to his strengths. Hence the transition football that Ten Haag never played before.
Thats Rashford. Bruno however is expendable. Not to be dropped but to be used and abused. He will play anywhere and runs around and doesn't complain. If we really want the best of him we would play him as a 10 and give him free reign. He is not an 8 and he is definitely not a RW. In Ten Haags transitional system he is being asked to work first and create second. Sure he will run around a lot but then he is not a creative 10. He is however a player that can hit Rashford quickly on the transition so he will stay.
 

11101

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They are a problem but Bruno is worth putting up with, he puts up the numbers and you have to play around him. Cantona was exactly the same giving the ball away all over the place but he more than made up for it, and like Cantona they both gave everything on the pitch. There may never be another with the impact Cantona had but Bruno is that type of player.

Rashford is the one who needs to go. Aside from being poor himself he makes it harder for those around him with his selfish runs and his lack of effort, and outside of the occasional purple patch he is not productive enough to make it worth it. Rashford will never be a major part of a title challenging team and we need to get rid of him in order to progress.
 

RedRonaldo

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If we are going to play counter attack transition football, they are the key.

If we are going to play possession football with midfield control and lots of build up play, they are the problem.

Pick either one you want us to be.
 

ElDiabloRojo

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They both need to sit a few games out on the bench or in the stands to realise they are not automatic starters even when their performance is abysmal. Shocking rubbish, both of them.

Why isn't ETH questioned about what he does in training, and about his signings, the guy should be questioned relentlessly by the media. Sancho's effort wasn't good enough blah blah yet these clowns are total crap week out on the pitch and aren't dropped.

Go away ETH, you need to banish a few more of them if you are consistent.

I'm not angry this morning
 

RazorOz

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The biggest problem is both are desperately out of form.

Other issues is Bruno should never have been made captain, the time when you need your captain is when the going gets tough, Bruno is always one of our worst players in these smashings, the first to lose his head, start moaning, and going around like a headless chicken, he just doesn't have the leadership qualities to be captain, and it was obvious before he was even given it, because it's not like this isn't something we've seen half a dozen times before.

Rashford has been built up to be like "the man" at the football club, but the reality is he's never shown he's good enough to be on such a pedestal. His entire career has been one of peaks and troughs. He goes through patches where he'll score 10 in 10, then plays crap for several months. One of the issues is fundamentally he has a lot of flaws, which are more apparent when his output is so low, people are more willing to put up with the lack of work rate if you're scoring every game, less so when you're scoring 1 in 10.

They aren't going anywhere though, and people are kidding themselves if they think either is going to be moved on anytime soon.
 

Gordon Godot

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The biggest problem is both are desperately out of form.

Other issues is Bruno should never have been made captain, the time when you need your captain is when the going gets tough, Bruno is always one of our worst players in these smashings, the first to lose his head, start moaning, and going around like a headless chicken, he just doesn't have the leadership qualities to be captain, and it was obvious before he was even given it, because it's not like this isn't something we've seen half a dozen times before.

Rashford has been built up to be like "the man" at the football club, but the reality is he's never shown he's good enough to be on such a pedestal. His entire career has been one of peaks and troughs. He goes through patches where he'll score 10 in 10, then plays crap for several months. One of the issues is fundamentally he has a lot of flaws, which are more apparent when his output is so low, people are more willing to put up with the lack of work rate if you're scoring every game, less so when you're scoring 1 in 10.

They aren't going anywhere though, and people are kidding themselves if they think either is going to be moved on anytime soon.
How bad do they need to be to get subbed let alone dropped. Absolutely abysmal yesterday. ETH needs to go for not addressing this
 

ToToMarshall

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I'm sure someone else has said words to the same effect but; yes they are problems but not nearly the biggest problems.

I think the bigger problem with the pair of them is that the manager refuses to sub either of them. I wasn't mad about Hojlund being taken off yesterday but Rashford surviving longer in the game was baffling. When Bruno is playing badly I can't wrap my head around the manager not hauling him off or dropping him for the two other attacking midfielders he actually signed?

It's not like we don't have players who can't come in to replace them. Even with Sancho shooting himself in the foot, Martial (please don't laugh) and Garnacho couldn't possibly be worse than Rashford's been this season. Mount and Eriksen similar with Bruno.
 

TMDaines

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They both need to sit a few games out on the bench or in the stands to realise they are not automatic starters even when their performance is abysmal. Shocking rubbish, both of them.

Why isn't ETH questioned about what he does in training, and about his signings, the guy should be questioned relentlessly by the media. Sancho's effort wasn't good enough blah blah yet these clowns are total crap week out on the pitch and aren't dropped.

Go away ETH, you need to banish a few more of them if you are consistent.

I'm not angry this morning
Step them both down and you are left with Hojlund, Martial, Antony, Garnacho, Pellistri, Sancho and Mount who have a combined total of zero goals and zero assists in the league this season. Rashford and Bruno are having terrible seasons, yet they are still performing better than all of those players, which is ludicrous.
 

Hester_manc

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Everybody is a problem, when they are not playing good enough for a longer periode of time. But we all know what Bruno and Rashford can do, and therefore we have to be patience and trust that the manager, coaches, the 2 players and teammates are doing all they can to get them back on track. It is not like we have 2-3 players more with their qualities in the sqaud.
 

ElDiabloRojo

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Step them both down and you are left with Hojlund, Martial, Antony, Garnacho, Pellistri, Sancho and Mount who have a combined total of zero goals and zero assists in the league this season. Rashford and Bruno are having terrible seasons, yet they are still performing better than all of those players, which is ludicrous.
Both offer nothing at the moment, a spell out might focus them, nothing to lose playing Garnacho or Pellestri, what's the worst that could happen.

But I hear you. The squad is a total mess.
 

RazorOz

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How bad do they need to be to get subbed let alone dropped. Absolutely abysmal yesterday. ETH needs to go for not addressing this
You can drop them sure. I mean that's part of the bigger picture I was getting at with Rashford, that he's built up to be the main man, but really he should be some squad role player, as he's not good enough to be carrying a successful team.

Not really convinced the replacements will be any better. Garnacho could start some games over Rashford, but has pretty much never had a good game in a game he started, most the other options have shown no better, Antony is just as bad if not worse, Sancho is exiled anyway, but has hardly shown himself worthy of starting, Martial again also shown that he's just not good enough either.

Bruno in theory is more indispensable to the team. It doesn't particularly make sense that we're shoehorning Bruno into positions to accommodate a limited player like McTominay, and I think we're kidding ourselves if we think we're going to be better for dropping Bruno.

The one sort of argument for starting Garnacho is we desperately need someone to provide service to Hojlund, we are not remotely playing to his strengths right now. If you start with Rashford and Antony wide like our default is, neither are creative players who will create chances for Hojlund, both are rather greedy, and want to cut in and shoot themselves.
 

GreatDane

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Step them both down and you are left with Hojlund, Martial, Antony, Garnacho, Pellistri, Sancho and Mount who have a combined total of zero goals and zero assists in the league this season. Rashford and Bruno are having terrible seasons, yet they are still performing better than all of those players, which is ludicrous.
How much have Rashford and Bruno contributed with in comparison? One goal, one assist or something?
For how much they kill 90% of our attacks Id bet the other could do more if they had the same amount of trust and playing time.
 

wolvored

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The biggest problem for any player is when he is undroppable. This is entirely on the manager.
If TH grew some balls and told Rashford, look you are not playing well. I have given you umpteen games to play yourself into form. The team is struggling and I am going to try something new. Get your head down in training and your chance will come again.

Bruno is slightly different. He is played out on the right, where he is poorer than playing as No 10. Why TH keeps doing this I dont know. Its not as if Mount is being picked and killing it. Bruno should be played at No 10 for the next 3/4 games and see if his form is because he is being played out of position before dropping him. As for him being captain, who else could do it. Verane is injury prone. Casemiro is going that way and cant speak English. No one else is suitable.
 

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They're supposedly our two "best players". Look at the two best players at clubs like Bayern, Real, City, Liverpool etc. and the difference is night and day.
 

NicolaSacco

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It seems odd to me that being 2 minutes (or whatever it was) late for a team meeting is a justifiable reason to drop Rashford, but not doing his literal job on the pitch for multiple games in a row, isn’t.

It feels like ten Hag has lost sight of what he’s trying to achieve here.
 

JagUTD

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Both suffer greatly from Shaw being out because Shaw provides an outlet down the left, where both Rashford and Bruno tend to feel more comfortable. How often would a United attack consist of Shaw pushing forward, Bruno getting the ball, playing it to Shaw or it getting to Shaw via the second pass, then Shaw linking with Rashford to create the space to get the ball in the box? It wasn't necessarily just these 3 playing between themselves but they were always involved.

Shaw was the outlet. Not just for Rashford and Bruno but for the entire team down that left, where our best play often came from.
 

Gupz

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Replace Bruno and Rashford with a player like De Bruyne and Foden and half the problems are solved. Hojlund or any other striker fails to impress because he is not getting the same service as a Haaland gets playing for City.
 

yamo123x

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They are a problem, clearly.

Stats show the huge amount of times these 2 players give the ball away every game. No wonder why we are creating hardly any chances and not scoring anywhere near as many goals as teams around us. As our alleged star players they are far too inconsistent and temperamental.

The one game they sat out (PALACE-CUP) we played our best stuff of the season, that tells you all you need to know.
 

Rozay

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Bruno is fundamentally a problem. Rashford’s current form is a problem.
 

RedAlert27

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There is an overdependence on these two to perform as we have seen in the past what both are actually capable of. So when they under perform it is extra frustrating. Bruno on the right doesn't work, it gives their left back a free game to overlap without much contention. Rashford has deserved to be dropped this season for his woeful performances. ETH is putting a lot of faith in these two and it could back fire. I doubt either will start against Newcastle.
 

Based Adnan

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Both are major problems. Whilst both are present at the club I can't see us implementing a proactive style of football.

I can see a scenario where the club blocks the departure of either for any incoming managers and it's probably a factor as to why ETH has decided to hang his hat on transition football instead of implementing a controlling style of play. This might change once ETH is gone with the club finally coming to the necessary realization but I doubt it.
 

Greck

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Rashford is an easy one to solve but Bruno isnt. But i would change entire midfield before i change these 2.
Haven't we already done this? Several times in fact. So many midfield combinations. From Pogba to Fred to Eriksen, Mount, Cas, Amrabat. His game hasn't scaled with the changes. Bruno is a midfielder who isn't really a midfielder because he lacks fundamentals at every position one tries to play him
 

elmo

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Step them both down and you are left with Hojlund, Martial, Antony, Garnacho, Pellistri, Sancho and Mount who have a combined total of zero goals and zero assists in the league this season. Rashford and Bruno are having terrible seasons, yet they are still performing better than all of those players, which is ludicrous.
The pair of them have also played way more minutes than the rest of them combined.
 

dcrompton

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They were a massive defensive problem yesterday. The number of times City overloaded our full backs with Silva and Grealish down the left and Foden and Walker on the right. When you think we used to have Beckham and Giggs who were not only much better footballers than these 2, they would also track back and help their full-backs
 

FerociousCorgis

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weird that the one time we looked good without them is dismissed because "it was just a lesser crystal palace side" but can conveniently ignore all the times we looked like shit with them against the bottom trash of the premier league.
 

TMDaines

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The pair of them have also played way more minutes than the rest of them combined.
If you want to fairly go after Bruno and Rashford, you cannot ignore the combined efforts of the rest of them.
 

giggslover

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Me, I don't blame the players personally. First of all isn't Bruno playing out of position?

As far as Rashford, last year Rashford was eating up defenders when one on one. So the league adapted and what I almost always see now is 2 defenders on or in front of Rashford at all times.

In my estimation, it now becomes the managers job to find a way to bring another player in to the play to counteract or compensate for this.
 

Superunknown

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They are definitely one of the many problems we have. When we don't score goals, you have to look at those mostly responsible for this area of the pitch. The bit that alarms me is that there's no real fluidity with the forward players. It's all very accidental. There's no sense of the players looking for each other or an aware of where they are on the pitch. They're not looking to service Hojlund, either.

At the same time, they are a huge part of the solution. If they can find the net, then the results will improve.
 

Kinsella

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Open question here - would you sell Rashford in the summer and buy Evan Ferguson?