This is what he should have done against Scotland. Though with Foden starting instead of Rashford.
I keep hearing that Grealish has to play from the left, but his battling qualities seem ideal for this 8 kind of role.
Are English players overrated or is it Southgate ?
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I keep hearing that Grealish has to play from the left, but his battling qualities seem ideal for this 8 kind of role.
Or maybe he comes from a position of duality with experience; Foden has 8, Sancho 19.
Think it's more Southgate, reminds me a bit of Ole unfortunately.
Players slightly overrated but Southgate is the biggest problem. And the FA
Weird thing to say when England were second best against Scotland
Yet the great superior Mount was woeful against the mighty Scotland eh?
I recall quite a bit of hype from the British media about this England side having a chance of winning it before the Euros began, but that optimism has turned to pessimism now after two tortured, virtually unwatchable performances.
So I would agree “nobody” rated England on the same level as France, but certainly some did rate England at the same level as Belgium and Germany. Not now, of course.
we haven't seen Sancho, we saw a little bit of Grealish who improved things once introduced. I see a lot of footballers who are overrated at this tournament, problem with english players is they are overpriced as well.
He picked “experience and leadership” over fitness and form.
How will he justify Henderson or Maguire if they don’t play? I’m not buying into this leadership nonsense. They could have and should have been at home ready to pick up the phone for advice or at best travelled with the squad but not been part of the playing staff. This is not even mentioning that Maguire does not have a whole list of honors, he has only won a Championship Play-off final.
With Henderson traveling, we have virtually no options for CM. Mount and Grealish can play there but that’s like a round peg in a square hole.
In attack he seems to prefer one wide playmaker and one winger. Sterling is basically Walcott 2.0. Lots of pace but his end product leaves a lot to be desired and doesn’t always pick the right option when he has time to think. On the other side, it’s impossible to stretch a team if you have someone who is more likely to drift inside looking for nice passes. A team can easily suffocate this side.
This leads me to Kane, playing on his own, his style does not compliment a wide playmaker since he has a tendency to drop off, leaving only our actual winger with the ability to stretch a defense. Mount and Grealish will not make a run into the box the way Ramsay would or Lampard did. Kane would have to run through about 5-6 people to get in the box.. only to be completely isolated by said players.
It’s clear to me, Gareth has gone as far as he can stealing ideas off other managers. There’s no real attack patterns, no personality (guess that is like him) and no real threat (again he doesn’t seem like a confrontational person).
I’d stick with 3-4-3 personally against Czech.
——————Pickford——————
Walker—-—stones—-— Mings (height only)
James——————————Shaw
—————philips—Rice—————
Sancho——————————Rashford
—————————DCL———————
I don’t rate DCL but Kane needs a rest and we need someone with a bit more Presence up front. Stop holding back the fullbacks, let them play their natural attacking game and use our pace to keep the in their own half. None of this tippy tappy bollocks.
How will he justify Henderson or Maguire if they don’t play? I’m not buying into this leadership nonsense. They could have and should have been at home ready to pick up the phone for advice or at best travelled with the squad but not been part of the playing staff. This is not even mentioning that Maguire does not have a whole list of honors, he has only won a Championship Play-off final.
With Henderson traveling, we have virtually no options for CM. Mount and Grealish can play there but that’s like a round peg in a square hole.
In attack he seems to prefer one wide playmaker and one winger. Sterling is basically Walcott 2.0. Lots of pace but his end product leaves a lot to be desired and doesn’t always pick the right option when he has time to think. On the other side, it’s impossible to stretch a team if you have someone who is more likely to drift inside looking for nice passes. A team can easily suffocate this side.
This leads me to Kane, playing on his own, his style does not compliment a wide playmaker since he has a tendency to drop off, leaving only our actual winger with the ability to stretch a defense. Mount and Grealish will not make a run into the box the way Ramsay would or Lampard did. Kane would have to run through about 5-6 people to get in the box.. only to be completely isolated by said players.
It’s clear to me, Gareth has gone as far as he can stealing ideas off other managers. There’s no real attack patterns, no personality (guess that is like him) and no real threat (again he doesn’t seem like a confrontational person).
I’d stick with 3-4-3 personally against Czech.
——————Pickford——————
Walker—-—stones—-— Mings (height only)
James——————————Shaw
—————philips—Rice—————
Sancho——————————Rashford
—————————DCL———————
I don’t rate DCL but Kane needs a rest and we need someone with a bit more Presence up front. Stop holding back the fullbacks, let them play their natural attacking game and use our pace to keep the in their own half. None of this tippy tappy bollocks.
That's not overrating, though. It's the same hope that every other team in every sport on the planet has: that they can play above their level and win a cup. You get the same thing from every nation in the Euros. But England seem to get the most criticism for it.
For the vast majority of England fans, failure is getting knocked at the group stage. Quarter finals is par for the course. Semis is a good tournament. Final is amazing. And winning it is dreamland.
It's only really the people who hate England who seem to think that failure is anything less than a win. They're often the same people who claim that the players aren't good enough to win it anyway. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.
It's well worth to remember that the game of football only exists because some posh Englishmen were loathe to get their hands dirty. Passing the ball never occurred to them until some uppity Scots decided to show them the meaning of team work.
Fact is England only ever turns up against Germany. Then you'll see team spirit and the shedding of blood. It's like they're still stuck in the world war, not realizing that extra players on the pitch are not allowed, and sending out feelers for an armistice will not progress them to the next round.
Fact is England only ever turns up against Germany. Then you'll see team spirit and the shedding of blood. It's like they're still stuck in the world war, not realizing that extra players on the pitch are not allowed, and sending out feelers for an armistice will not progress them to the next round.
It's definitely Southgate. Don't understand why he's so popular.
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Southgate isnt a good manager, hence his only experience being a manager being Boro manager for 3 years when he got them relegated.
I think in this case, it's a bit of both.
English players are generally over priced and the hype is nauseating. Perfect example.....Declan Rice.
By world standards he is ok. In the UK.....He is the next big thing and prices of £100m are being thrown around. Its madness.
Saying all that though, Southgates tactics have been horrid.
English players are generally over priced and the hype is nauseating. Perfect example.....Declan Rice.
By world standards he is ok. In the UK.....He is the next big thing and prices of £100m are being thrown around. Its madness.
Saying all that though, Southgates tactics have been horrid.
Similar things were being said with us in January, we got a suitable coach in and look what happened.
That said it's not even about England "doing a Chelsea", I just want to see a well coached team that does close to as good as it can.
This brand of football is absolutely brutal to watch and it's just unacceptable with the talent on offer.
They need Bellingham or Foden driving it forward through the middle to knit it all together. They have a solid base. I actually think they have so many options that it’s a problem to pick your best 11. The lineup is always in flux. Grealish also has to start the next game. I’ve a feeling it’ll be Sancho coming on instead of Rashford next time after his 2 extremely flat cameos.
Any news on Maguire? Isnt he fit and ready?
This is all true.
Its actually crazy that Bellingham isn't starting, given we need someone in midfield who can actually advance the ball to our forwards, and the Sancho situation...my God.
The worst thing is Southgate must have seen these lads in the Champions League. He must have?
Southgate is not up to it and he never has been. We should never have lost that World Cup semi final after going 1-0 up. He's been riding off the back of smashing Panama and wearing nice waistcoats for years.
Please, nobody reading this talk to me about the Nations League. Nobody gives a crap about that and we didn't even win it anyway.
Southgate is a charlatan. Him being an FA yes man is the only reason he's not under pressure.
The man threw a kid under the bus to deflect from a draw. Now he's claiming Champions League regulars are too inexperienced to play? Guy's head's had a wobble.
I think he did decent in 2018 but I think that also shows the problem, the 2018 team was average so he could utilize being an underdog and it worked well.
Now it's a totally different ball game, we have the talent to make a real fist of the tournament and he appears to be unable to deal with the expectations.
For all intents and purposes 2018 was a Moyes/Everton esque job and 2021 is a Moyes/United esque job.
I'm not sure he did that well in the 2018. Other than battering Panama and Sweden, we needed an injury time winner against Tunisia, pens against Colombia and the rest of our matches were losses. It's just that we blagged it to the semis and was generally a euphoric tournament (for what it's worth, 2018 ranks as my favourite ever tournament, going back to 2002) that Southgate survived in the role.
Southgate is ultimately just a shite coach, always has been. He'd honestly be lucky to get a top 10 PL job and I'll be surprised if we make it through the next round, unless we get someone proper shit.
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Not judging from this thread
This is a guy who once told his players to go out and kick Ronaldo. Shows where we're at
He wasn't. We beat the teams we should have but needed penalties against one. The only time he came up against a decent side, they were exposed
Which was in itself a huge improvement on the previous umpteen tournaments, especially the one before that.
All that fuzz because of a draw against Scotland? Let's give it few more games, shall we.
The team is easily good enough to win it ability-wise. There are some major problems, though:
- Who is convinced England put in 100% into their matches? I'm not. They weren't even panting after the Scotland match. And it happens all the time. Compare the attitude between the Welsh players and English players; it is night and day.
- England are always so negative. Why are we so averse to playing on the front foot?
- Southgate is a pussy who will just try to be as friendly as possible with the players as possible. He wants to keep his job no matter what, knowing he will never get another.
The first two have plagued England for a long time. The third is the icing on that old stale cake.
- Who is convinced England put in 100% into their matches? I'm not. They weren't even panting after the Scotland match. And it happens all the time. Compare the attitude between the Welsh players and English players; it is night and day.
- England are always so negative. Why are we so averse to playing on the front foot?
- Southgate is a pussy who will just try to be as friendly as possible with the players as possible. He wants to keep his job no matter what, knowing he will never get another.
The first two have plagued England for a long time. The third is the icing on that old stale cake.
2006 world cup 2004 euro team were lot more talent wise experience wise. England just could not capitalise in that tournaments. You will be shell shocked after grealish and Sancho play.
Internationals teams have its limitations. How will you expansively play if opponents refused to give room for you.Scotland gave all to earn draw considering they need least a draw to keep them alive.
Nobody question france when they drew with Hungary though they have some of world's best in their position played for them. Mbappe,Benzema,greizman,kante ,Pogba,varane. These players are world's best in their position not some hyped up jobs like England has.
All I can say is give Southgate his chance and his decisions will be scrutinised if he failed. He did all right till now overall.
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Sancho is inexperienced at international level 19 caps and 10 as a sub. Against Scotland England had one of the least capped teams in the tourney
So 4 players who have reached the CL finals then? I didn't know you had to play for the CL winner to be a good player so finalists don't count. Walker played for CL finalists that knocked out Mbappe's team. Chilwell won the CL. TAA has won the CL, Stones has played in the CL finals, Tripper just won La liga, Reece James has won CL, Henderson CL winner, Mount CL winner, Foden CL finalist, Sterling CL finalists (5 winners in initial squad and 4 finalists)
France have 7 CL winners (5 play of them play for Bayern and their only final made was in 2020)
Germany have 8 winners in their squad and they don't all start. How many do Italy, Portugal, Holland and Spain have? England must be the 3rd best team then on your qualifier......
Exactly. Why is it acceptable to have top players but a less than ordinary coach?
Indeed.
I think a good deal of drama arises out of the fact England were one of the bookies favourites, they did okay in the last major tournament (with some major asterisks attached), there has been a current of genuine optimism arising from these things along with the emergence of promising young players.
But I think fair minded football fans knew they were nowhere near one of the favourites so they were built into a situation that means as soon as they perform poorly it is like the world has ended. Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Portugal have far more pedigree and less hang ups in these tournaments so the initial idea that they were among the favourites was well off base. They're one of a few teams that if things go perfectly they may have a go but they're not and never should be considered a favourite.
When they're seen for what they are, a promising side, with an unproven manager that rarely excel at the latter stages it doesn't seem quite so bad that England will comfortably qualify from the group despite mediocre performance levels. In fact, isn't that largely par for the course with them?
But I think fair minded football fans knew they were nowhere near one of the favourites so they were built into a situation that means as soon as they perform poorly it is like the world has ended. Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Portugal have far more pedigree and less hang ups in these tournaments so the initial idea that they were among the favourites was well off base. They're one of a few teams that if things go perfectly they may have a go but they're not and never should be considered a favourite.
When they're seen for what they are, a promising side, with an unproven manager that rarely excel at the latter stages it doesn't seem quite so bad that England will comfortably qualify from the group despite mediocre performance levels. In fact, isn't that largely par for the course with them?
The last sentence is so true but as Gary Neville stated about Utd performances; you can’t just turn it on and off. These tournaments are about improv and peaking. England have rarely looked that. I think only the Euros in England have they ever looked potential winners
They have already won the world cup. This is a one-off so far, not the norm for France with this team.
Italy manage to play expansive football. The idea you cannot play expansive football has always been an excuse. If you have will to play attacking football, you will be able to play attacking football.
Southgate won against teams he should win against. When has he won a game you don't have such an expectation to win? I don't remember one.
France and Deschamps have at least proved to be winners and have that mentality. The coach himself is a serial winner.
Yes france result even though it's anomaly it could happen sometimes. Nobody will talk anything if stones or mount or kane converted their chance.
Yes Italy played well but so what some teams played well initially and you can't compare Mancini to any coach in this tournament. Southgate need to be backed and question will be raised if he under performed. But not now. If he failed to reach semis then you can question him or his approach.
Southgate have bigger problem that is make kane fire. His ultimate goal is that and that only. Not some style or expansive football.If kane started to score goals he can win england the whole thing.
@Inigo Montoya Yes Deschamps serial winner but nobody questioned about expansive football to him even though he has better players in every position. Ultimately win is a win. England s semifinal appearance was equal to world cup by her standard though.
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I meant more the fans going to the matches and in the media. Never known an England manager to be so well thought of by the media.Not judging from this thread
This is a guy who once told his players to go out and kick Ronaldo. Shows where we're at
My bet is we exit in the QFs, an agonising 2-1 defeat to the first decent side we play (England to score first and slowly disintegrate until they concede with 65 minutes gone. Heroic effort with a lack of quality means they concede by some daft means with 10 minutes to go. Southgate puts on a (slightly injured) Grealish, Rashford and there's one last rally, a flash of the ball across the six yard box... well, you know how it goes by now.
PL-players are extremely overrated, they have always been overrated, but at this time when they get more money they get more overrated.
Some people seem to value a player for the price tag they got. All PL players always are overly valued for this reason.
Italy for example dont have players with the same value as PL (english players) but they are probably better in every single position but english fans fails to understand this just because english players have higher value and the only reason they have higher value is that theyre playing in a league where the players have much higher price tags than in serie a based on what they earn and what theyre worth in the PL, and Serie A will fall short in money big time against PL.
Basically the success of PL has made english players seem more valuable than they are
Some people seem to value a player for the price tag they got. All PL players always are overly valued for this reason.
Italy for example dont have players with the same value as PL (english players) but they are probably better in every single position but english fans fails to understand this just because english players have higher value and the only reason they have higher value is that theyre playing in a league where the players have much higher price tags than in serie a based on what they earn and what theyre worth in the PL, and Serie A will fall short in money big time against PL.
Basically the success of PL has made english players seem more valuable than they are
Exactly. The panic stations and gripes from people are shockingly premature. A France the best international side on the planet drew with a mere Hungary. A Spain is struggling to kill off weak teams at home.
To moan after besting a tough and tricky Croatia, then drawing nil all the equivalent of a bitter club derby as you'd get any where in international football vs Scotland. Unscarthed with your best players still playing themselves into form and fitness should be cause for serious optimism. Not doom and gloom.
He has been managing England for more than 2 years, any manager worth their salt would have clearly mapped which players can play which, at least their main strength and weaknesses should already be well addressed. 2 years is along time, most International managers would have known their squad by heart.
You don't "try" something during the actual EURO, you do that during qualification.
You don't "try" something during the actual EURO, you do that during qualification.
Just not true though. Rashford, Sancho, Grealish plus afew more would likely be the best players in Serie A. Serie A these days is just a poor league and standard of football while the premier league is a much higher level. Some of the English players are overrated but many are not and are supremely talented players who would perform in any league in the world and the price tags reflect that. The manager is the single biggest issue as usual.
The last point hits the nail