Are non English top European leagues closer to the Championship than they are to the Premier League?

[Pintu]

How does the English Championship stack up against the top leagues of Europe like Serie A, Ligue 1, La Liga, and the Bundesliga? Liga Portugal, Eredivisie ?

Despite being a level below the Premier League, the Championship is known for its competitive nature and financial might. Can it rival the quality, excitement, and talent of Europe’s elite leagues? Let’s discuss it here instead if derailing the Thigao Motta thread further…
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/thiago-motta-bologna.481522/

With @OverratedOpinion arguing Serie A‘s level was closer to the Championship… (I I think it’s ridiculous… I don’t believe a team made out of championship players would have won the Euro at Wembley 2021..)

What's silly? That it's closer to the Championship?

It is a thought experiment that can't actually have a conclusion but it shocks me that anyone would find that statement surprising.

Here is the UEFA ranking based on actual results, Over the last 3 seasons (including the current one) Serie A (55,78) is closer to the PL(60,25) than it is to the other top leagues behind it. (49,6, 49,4 and 45,7)

Where do you think Championship would be in this ranking if we had that experiment?

Well considering the support for the clubs and money in England, if the Championship somehow had European football and tv rights they would probably be extremely competitive.

Also cup competitions are extremely different as I've said.

This wasn’t your initial statement… it was not contingent on championship clubs having Europe money. You said they were currently at serie A level…

Otherwise it is silly… I could say that if Bologna had the PL money they’d win the PL given how good they’ve performed in Italy going toe to toe with Juventus while only spending a fraction of Juve’s budget…

I was just amused by your weird Brexit rhetoric, Ingurland good, foreign teams bad

To say the Serie A is lower than Championship level doesn't deserve a serious discussion because it's quite simply ludicrous.

For someone capable of such 'drastic' opinions you also seem to have a relatively thin skin. I posted a and you completely lost the plot.

Nah just found it funny how you're going on about hypothetical scenarios and using words like 'fact' and 'logic'. Then getting wound up and sarcastically saying it's the best league ever even though no one argued it is.

You're literally just saying your opinion but said "it's a fact Serie A is a rubbish league". So your opinion is fact, interesting that you're then saying @Berbaclass is the manipulative husband

It is rubish, so is the Championship when we are talking about the Premier League. I've not said 1 even remotely inconsistent thing. Keep clutching at straws and arguing like a strange, strange person.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Seeing how thoroughly shite Championship topscorer Chuba Akpom is... I doubt that. He makes Weghorst's first touch look like prime Ronaldinho.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

It's already run it's course, you haven't responded from your last message where you started mentioning silver medals as things clubs have won and trying to be pedantic about 2009 to 2024 not being 15 years.

Serie A is obviously better than the Championship, it is also obviously closer to the Championship in terms of quality than it is the the Premier League whis is drastically better.

 

[luke511]

This is a very loose measurement but looking at the accumulated player values in each league according to Transfermarkt:

They have the championship with a value of £1.69 billion, which goes you a rough idea of where it sits as a whole.

 

[PSV]

Would put Championship in that "next 4" category with Liga Portugal, Eredivisie and Ligue 1.

 

[Desert Eagle]

It's already run it's course, you haven't responded from your last message where you started mentioning silver medals as things clubs have won and trying to be pedantic about 2009 to 2024 not being 15 years.

Serie A is obviously better than the Championship, it is also obviously closer to the Championship in terms of quality than it is the the Premier League whis is drastically better.

It's not obvious at all. The opposite in fact. What data do you have that supports your opinion?

 

[Pintu]

15 years have passed since a Serie A club won the Champions League, I.e. 2009 to 2024.

Silver medals? Good lord. Won as in won a trophy.

Do you consider Man Utd won 2 things last season?

No, but I think our 2009 and 2011 teams did achieve something significant in Euope. That was a much stronger team than the one that won the EL in 2017 and got second place in the PL 2017/18.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Would put Championship in that "next 4" category with Liga Portugal, Eredivisie and Ligue 1.

I'd say that's fair.

 

[Pintu]

This is another good contribution to this subject..l

Stoke City. Bet365 Stadium (still known locally as the Brittania)
Nice cliche but Stoke would wipe the floor with all but a handful of the teams in Ligue Un. Games against Bayern and Argentina are largely meaningless when you lose them both!

 

[top1whoisman]

Would put Championship in that "next 4" category with Liga Portugal, Eredivisie and Ligue 1.

Do you really think that Leicester, Ipswich, Leeds & Southampton would be able to compete against PSG, Lille, Monaco, PSV, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting & Benfica? I'd say Championship is much closer to the Scottish league than those you mentioned.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

No, but I think our 2009 and 2011 teams did achieve something significant in Euope. That was a much stronger team than the one that won the EL in 2017 and got second place in the PL 2017/18.

The post you qouted I said won. You kept bringing up cup competitions which I've explained why they are bad barometers for a league of 20 teams. I pointed out that the 14th best team in england last year won the same amount in Europe as the entire Serie A has won in 15 years.

Did we win the Champions League in 2011?

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Do you really think that Leicester, Ipswich, Leeds & Southampton would be able to compete against PSG, Lille, Monaco, PSV, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting & Benfica? I'd say Championship is much closer to the Scottish league than those you mentioned.

I find this a really interesting post. Apart from PSG I'd imagine the answer being yes although will admit I watch literally none of the dutch league.

I think apart from the odd season the best teams in the Championship are a lot better than given credit for. I think Leicester, Leeds and Ipswich would win the Scottish Prem by a big big points margin.

 

[top1whoisman]

I find this a really interesting post. Apart from PSG I'd imagine the answer being yes although will admit I watch literally none of the dutch league.

Considering Sporting knocked Arsenal out of the EL last season, Porto & PSV got out of their CL groups, Benfica & Marseille playing in this year's EL quarter-finals I must disagree with this.

 

[rcoobc]

Both times Championship teams have competed in Europe they didn't do great.

From memory... And I might get this slightly wrong;

Birmingham City finished around 4th in the championship and came close.to getting out the Europa League group stage, finishing 3rd, 1 point behind 2nd.

Wigan finished around 5th in the championship and did awfully in the group stage, finishing last.

So that would somewhat imply the Championship is much worse than the Dutch or Belgian leagues, possibly similar to the Scottish League

 

[KirkDuyt]

Do you really think that Leicester, Ipswich, Leeds & Southampton would be able to compete against PSG, Lille, Monaco, PSV, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting & Benfica? I'd say Championship is much closer to the Scottish league than those you mentioned.

To be fair they would probably beat Ajax.

 

[awop]

Do you really think that Leicester, Ipswich, Leeds & Southampton would be able to compete against PSG, Lille, Monaco, PSV, Feyenoord, Benfica, Sporting & Benfica? I'd say Championship is much closer to the Scottish league than those you mentioned.

Definitely, the Championship is akin to the SPL. A good part of Ligue 1 teams would sweep the Championship ones

 

[top1whoisman]

To be fair they would probably beat Ajax.

That's more than fair, fancy even Wrexham beating the current version of them

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Considering Sporting knocked Arsenal out of the EL last season, Porto & PSV got out of their CL groups, Benfica & Marseille playing in this year's EL quarter-finals I must disagree with this.

Sheffield knocked Spurs out the FA Cup last season. Dozens of examples of this in cup competitions. Happens most seasons.

 

[Lay]

This thread will be a good laugh

 

[KirkDuyt]

That's more than fair, fancy even Wrexham beating the current version of them

We're 6-0 up against em as we speak with 25 min left.

 

[Pintu]

The post you qouted I said won. You kept bringing up cup competitions which I've explained why they are bad barometers for a league of 20 teams. I pointed out that the 14th best team in england last year won the same amount in Europe as the entire Serie A has won in 15 years.

Did we win the Champions League in 2011?

And what you said was BS… I only brought up European football because it is the only available way to compare top half clubs across leagues…The results of the 8 Italian clubs that participated in CL/EL over the last 3 years suggest their results (8 to 14 games per club per season) are relatively close to those of the English clubs.

 

[avgp_1]

Championship is pretty terrible for large parts.
Would probably rank it 9th-10th, well behind Portuguese, Dutch and Turkish leagues

 

[Pintu]

To be fair they would probably beat Ajax.

Ajax this year is an anomaly… I’d say PSG is as well from that group of teams.

 

[top1whoisman]

Sheffield knocked Spurs out the FA Cup last season. Dozens of examples of this in cup competitions. Happens most seasons.

In a one-off match, sure. Regarding Sporting last season, they would first have to reach the Round of 16 to even have the chance of knocking out Arsenal. Very much doubt the top of the Championship teams would be getting out of CL & EL groups leaving the likes of Sevilla, Lens and Shakhtar behind them.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

[/QUOTE]

And what you said was BS… I only brought up European football because it is the only available way to compare top half clubs across leagues…The results of the 8 Italian clubs that participated in CL/EL over the last 3 years suggest their results (8 to 14 games per club per season) are relatively close to those of the English clubs.

What I said was literally a fact.

 

[top1whoisman]

We're 6-0 up against em as we speak with 25 min left.

I know...

 

[noodlehair]

Not really anything to base this on other than what I've watched and the impression it gives me, but I think short answer is no.

Once you get past the top 2-3 English teams, I think the rest of the PL is comparable with other top European leagues. The PL isn't as "competitive" as it once was...Its not even competitive at the top really. City win it every year and the best hope of them not is if they get bored. Once you get to the bottom you have Luton, Burnley, Sheffield United, Nottingham Forest, Crystal Palace, Everton, etc. Are we trying to say every team not competing for a title in the other top leagues are below the level of these teams?

So if you chucked Burnley in a random Europa League group with say Lazio, Sociedad, Leipzig, they'd fare any better than in a group with 3 mid table PL teams? They wouldn't. It'd be obvious to anyone that watched that they were a level below the other teams. Newcastle didn't look like they were playing against a bunch of Championship sides when they crashed out of the CL, and neither did United. Brighton got absolutely hammered by Roma. Roma are 25 points off the top in Italy....is there a team in the PL 25 points off the top who you'd expect to beat Brighton 4-0?

The PL has more money and therefore more of the talent overall, but a majority of that top level talent is only spread out between 5-6 teams, at least two of who at any given time seem to be very good at mismanaging it.

I think what's more likely to happen is the bottom half and eventually bottom two thirds of the PL will become closer and closer to the Championship where the better resourced teams talent hoard, and then eventually the Super League idea will come back with a bit more of a tame resistance this time.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I know...

Just making sure

 

[OverratedOpinion]

In a one-off match, sure. Regarding Sporting last season, they would first have to reach the Round of 16 to even have the chance of knocking out Arsenal. Very much doubt the top of the Championship teams would be getting out of CL & EL groups leaving the likes of Sevilla, Lens and Shakhtar behind them.

No I don't imagine they would in the Champions League either. I also don't imagine the vast majority of the Serie A would either.

The best teams in these leagues are all better than the best teams in the Championship. I'd say where I'm at is that the best couple of Championship would be between top half and competing for top 6 spots in a lot of these leagues if you could magic their exact teams there.

But saying that I do think as an example of the teams you mentioned if Leicester and Marseille for example decided to play eachother 10 times right now they would probably be close games with both teams getting some wins.

 

[Lay]

Are United closer to the Championship than the top 3?

 

[top1whoisman]

Just making sure

It kind of hurts me as a part of me still has the memory of the '95 team and Litmanen... But the last few years have been horrible to watch.

 

[top1whoisman]

No I don't imagine they would in the Champions League either. I also don't imagine the vast majority of the Serie A would either.

The best teams in these leagues are all better than the best teams in the Championship. I'd say where I'm at is that the best couple of Championship would be between top half and competing for top 6 spots in a lot of these leagues if you could magic their exact teams there.

Somehow I feel that the likes of Cardiff, Swansea, Blackburn, Bristol City etc. would struggle in even one-off matches against Lyon, Marseille, Rennes etc. Looking at the squads of the best teams in this season's Championship, I don't think they'd be anywhere near the top 6 in those leagues. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

Seeing how thoroughly shite Championship topscorer Chuba Akpom is... I doubt that. He makes Weghorst's first touch look like prime Ronaldinho.

Good call. Can't think of a single star player from the Championship going abroad and tearing it up.

What a rubbish thread. Serie A is obviously closer to the Prem. Championship is still trash.

Man City barely beat Inter in last year's CL final and I don't even rate Inter much. Milan beat Newcastle this season. Roma thrashed Brighton.

Just look at the squad roster of Ipswich who are second. In what world with these players be good in other top European leagues. If they would be they'd be playing in those leagues because they could get more money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipswich_Town_F.C.#Players

 

[Pintu]

What I said was literally a fact.

No, it wasn’t a fact… If you wanted to flex this meaningles, out of context stat, you should have said (they have won as many European trophies in the last “13 years and 9 months.“… )

Not to forget they scrapped the final win against a mid-table (maybe the 8th) Italian squad. West Ham is a relatively rich club. It’s in no way representative of Championship or even the bottom half of the PL. And this is how they won that final.

Pretending that reaching the Champions League final and eventually losing it doesn’t speak to the strength of the club in question is as stupid an argument as you could’ve come up with…

 

[OverratedOpinion]

No, it wasn’t a fact… If you wanted to flex this meaningles, out of context stat, you should have said (they have won as many European trophies in the last “13 years and 9 months.“… )

Not to forget they scrapped the final win against a mid-table (maybe the 8th) Italian squad. West Ham is a relatively rich club. It’s in no way representative of Championship or even the bottom half of the PL. And this is how they won that final.

Pretending that reaching the Champions League final and eventually losing it doesn’t speak to the strength of the club in question is as stupid an argument as you could’ve come up with…

Well that would sound bloody stupid wouldn't it.

Yes the 14th best side in the Premier League beat the 8th best side in Serie A to win the same amount as all Serie A clubs in the last 13 years and 9 months combined (happy?)

Anyway off to watch the Utd game. Please stop being so stressed about me thinking Serie A is a bit of a rubbish league.

 

[luke511]

Good call. Can't think of a single star player from the Championship going abroad and tearing it up.

What a rubbish thread. Serie A is obviously closer to the Prem. Championship is still trash.

Man City barely beat Inter in last year's CL final and I don't even rate Inter much. Milan beat Newcastle this season. Roma thrashed Brighton.

Just look at the squad roster of Ipswich who are second. In what world with these players be good in other top European leagues. If they would be they'd be playing in those leagues because they could get more money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipswich_Town_F.C.#Players

Viktor Gyokeres is doing pretty well at Sporting.. There's also plenty of players that starred in the Championship like Watkins, Toney, Olise, holding it up in the Premier League too.

 

[Kwabs]

The obvious answer to the OP is 'no, that is a mind-bogglingly ridiculous assertion', but the more pertinent question is, 'what actual evidence is there that the PL is so much better than the other top European leagues that such a question can be asked re the Championship?'

We know that the PL is the richest league. It is also number one in the coefficient but it only attained that status about 5-6 years ago, taking over from Spain, whose clubs had spent a decade plus absolutely dominating the CL and the EL. As far as I am aware, if you look at results between nations in European competition, there is nothing to suggest PL supremacy (esp. v Spanish teams). So what is the criteria on which this idea is based? Other than blinkered jingoism, that is

 

[Sir Marcus]

 

[Pintu]

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if only they had played some Championship clubs in between…

 

[AltiUn]

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if only they had played some Championship clubs in between…