Are the Glazers preparing for a sale? | Saudis deny the news

[MackRobinson]

True or not it doesnt negate the rest of the post

Seriously? Your post was based on 3 false premises, yet we should ignore that and take what you say at face value? Mmk.

 

[Sandikan]

I don't think anything was out of order and just opinion, although some of the opinion against it was directly against the person and not about the premise. It persists to seem a very uncomfortable and to be attacked truth that we are enabling the deaths in oil wars, the hatred of gays, the prosecution of political adversaries etc. by buying their products, and looking away at all that, while being morally outraged for the same reasons when they buy with our money.

It's one thing being against a brutal regime and tolerating them owning your club (which may or may not come to light).

But it's another thing to say anyone who uses oil can't then say a word against them!
Not all our oil comes from Saudi for one thing!

 

[George Owen]

Lots of intolerance on this thread it seems, just exactly what some are accusing the Saudis of....If Utd was approached by China there would be "what about human rights etc" if the club was approached by anyone for that matter there will always be someone looking at the negatives,by the way do you know the current owners donate to causes not exactly whiter than white blimey...

It's ok to be intolerant towards the intolerants. It's paradoxical obviously, but otherwise, the whole society will succumb to intolerance.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Would love it if the Saudis buy us out. 780 billion in reserves.

Doubt there is much to the story though. Seems like it would cost more than the 3.8 billion figure to tempt the Glazers as well.

 

[Sandikan]

"Behind every great fortune there is a crime." —Balzac

Always an interesting idea.
But is it true? Does someone like Branson count, has he committed "crimes"?
I suppose it depends on whether paying people minimum wage is a crime, or actually an opportunity they wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

[reddaz71]

Seriously? Your post was based on 3 false premises, yet we should ignore that and take what you say at face value? Mmk.

The inmates have taken over the asylum....

 

[Hugh Jass]

Always an interesting idea.
But is it true? Does someone like Branson count, has he committed "crimes"?
I suppose it depends on whether paying people minimum wage is a crime, or actually an opportunity they wouldn't have had otherwise.

A lot of companies like Amazon and Starbucks not paying their share of taxes. High street in western europe is suffering i read.

 

[Sandikan]

A lot of companies like Amazon and Starbucks not paying their share of taxes. High street in western europe is suffering i read.

Taxes is another interesting idea.

How Joe Sixpack, who might contribute say £8k a year in taxes, gets really angry that someone who is paying millions isn't paying even more.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Nah you dismissed the argument by saying you don't have a car, while you surely are consuming their products. Hence, I conclude you don't have a counter argument, and are just trying to cheaply dismiss it because the very thought that you are a cynical consumer confuses and frightens you.

I am a consumer and a hypocrite and irrational. I am a human being. That's part and parcel of existence and I'm not scared to explore my faults or flaws. I try my best to reduce the extent to which I make the world a worse place. So I genuinely have no idea what you're arguing at this point. You've been wrong about me on all counts, and I find your wriggling both wummish and amusing.

You may be in luck. Maybe the Saudis will buy your club instead and propel it back to relevance.

 

[Fridge chutney]

From the look of your recent posts, I'm amazed you've lasted 200+ posts.

I'm amazed too. I had him on ignore before this thread because I pegged him for a wum. He will be going straight back on the ignore list!

 

[MackRobinson]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/oct/04/glazers-manchester-united

I've seen that article before and the author is intellectually dishonest (ie. he's pushing a narrative like most good journalists).

The accounts also showed that United’s borrowings remain at £487m from the Glazer takeover, which Woodward was instrumental in structuring with £525m debts loaded on to the club, including £275m high interest “payment in kind” loans.

This make it seems as if the Glazers put up none of their own money. By all accounts, they did (from what I've read the high-interest loans were borrowed against their own assets but I could be wrong). Look at the very next paragraph:

This debt is more than financially manageable now after Ferguson’s successes saw United through the early Glazer years of eye-watering payments, but the 2017-18 finance costs were still £24m. That could have helped pay for one of the players Woodward refused as short-term fixes on cost grounds.

Hmm, the author is railing about debt that he deems manageable, but according to him it has nothing to do with Manchester United's commercial activities and all to do with SAF greatness. No way it could be both?

Lastly, the author addresses how much the Glazers have personally benefited (dividend payments). Which is not crazy given they put up some of their own money.

The six Glazer siblings who collectively own 97% of United’s voting shares were paid approximately $23m (£18m) in dividends, the third year dividends have been paid. The total paid to them and the other financial investors was £22m, following £23m in 2016-17 and £20m the previous year, a total of £65m out of the club.

So the author is basically telling us the Glazers were paid dividends (a fraction of the original loan amount) after 10 years of owning a club, who the author admits (and by all accounts), is in good financial position. Hmm...

This is nothing but a click-bait hit piece that is constantly used as evidence of the Glazers destroying the club. People need to open their eyes.

 

[Member 93275]

It's one thing being against a brutal regime and tolerating them owning your club (which may or may not come to light).

But it's another thing to say anyone who uses oil can't then say a word against them!
Not all our oil comes from Saudi for one thing!

Oh then it's ok.

 

[MackRobinson]

The inmates have taken over the asylum....

Hi pot.

 

[Member 93275]

I am a consumer and a hypocrite and irrational. I am a human being. That's part and parcel of existence and I'm not scared to explore my faults or flaws.

Well this was what was denied before. Welcome to the club of hypocrites. - The Chairman

 

[Hugh Jass]

Reading that the price is dependent on whether we reach the CL, so probably wont hear anything until top four is claimed or missed.

TBH i dont think there is much to the rumors.

 

[kr0nix]

New chant at OT

 

[Giggsyking]

the end of discussion

Saudi Media minister
All the news of Prince Muhammed bin Selman willing to buy man utd is false. The meetings was between the Saudi investment fund and Man utd football club to discuss a partnership project and the investment fund committee discussed it as a project like any other project and they did not come to an agreement.

 

[Member 93275]

the end of discussion

Saudi Media minister
All the news of Prince Muhammed bin Selman willing to buy man utd is false. The meetings was between the Saudi investment fund and Man utd football club to discuss a partnership project and the investment fund committee discussed it as a project like any other project and they did not come to an agreement.

Actually this sounds like it is true.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Taxes is another interesting idea.

How Joe Sixpack, who might contribute say £8k a year in taxes, gets really angry that someone who is paying millions isn't paying even more.

You're suggesting the wealthy should be entitled to pay what they choose in the manner of a charitable donation but Joe Sixpack and those like him should be obliged to pay the set amount? Yeah, I can see why you and Joe aren't getting along.

 

[Giggsyking]

Actually this sounds like it is true.

even if it was true, announcing that there is nothing means the deal fell apart if there was any.

 

[Catt]

Which is a terrifying prospect when they were doing it with experienced managers at the helm. You worry what might happen if we have Ole without a DOF and Ed pulling the strings. Ole looking at good prospects for the future of the club and Ed just glued to Gareth Bale.

When was the last time United looked Bale's way?

 

[Member 93275]

even if it was true, announcing that there is nothing means the deal fell apart if there was any.

What are you saying, even if it's true, it ain't true? Anyway they just admitted they are into United, by stating the boilerplate there is no deal yet (like in no agreement over price yet?).

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Then you wouldn't be able to stomach the change of ownership.

It would be a massive struggle, as I said.

 

[Member 93275]

even if it was true, announcing that there is nothing means the deal fell apart if there was any.

What are you saying, even if it's true, it ain't true? At the very least, they just admitted they are into United (and the trash newspaper got at least something right). It could be a statement the buying party would issue if they are not happy about the price yet. It's a bit of a suspect statement.

 

[Giggsyking]

What are you saying, even if it's true, it ain't true? Anyway they just admitted they are into United, by stating the boilerplate there is no deal yet (like in no agreement over price yet?).

Im saying even if the news about MBS buying utd was true, the saudi minister with his last tweet cut the rumors and if there was a deal to sell the club, it fell apart.

 

[Member 93275]

Im saying even if the news about MBS buying utd was true, the saudi minister with his last tweet cut the rumors and if there was a deal to sell the club, it fell apart.

So the Saudi Minister of Truth admits they were into some deal but denies business was successful (yet). How to read that...

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Any success gained from Suadi investment would be worthless anyway.

True.

 

[Giggsyking]

So the Saudi Minister of Truth admits they were into some deal but denies business was successful (yet). How to read that...

you are right, it could be about buying the club, although he denied it and said it is a partnership deal.

 

[el3mel]

So the Saudi Minister of Truth admits they were into some deal but denies business was successful (yet). How to read that...

He denied any desire from Bin Salman family to take control of the club. That's what matters in his words I guess.

 

[JSArsenal]

How would Bin Salman even pass the fit and proper person test after the whole Khagsoogi assassination?

 

[lsd]

He denied any desire from Bin Salman family to take control of the club. That's what matters in his words I guess.

Good the desire some utd fans have to sell the clubs soul to a regime with such a terrible human rights record staggers me

There are things more important than buying success . I would rather city win every cup for a 100 years than follow then down the same path

 

[Tarrou]

How would Bin Salman even pass the fit and proper person test after the whole Khagsoogi assassination?

Q. Are you a billionaire?

A. Yes

you're in!

 

[Cloud7]

You cynical muppets who go around crying “Well everyone is bad, so we shouldn’t care about what x people do because w,y,z also do things” are so damn annoying.

You’re just as bad as the conspiracy theorists and anti-vaccine idiots.

 

[Whiteside1985]

All this from an unsubstantiated story in the Sun.....

However, I am despairing at the moral compass of some 'fans' who don't care who the owners are, as long as they have buckets of cash.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It isn't, you're changing the argument. The argument is that we are hypocrites for giving them money for their oil, which you denied, and were you said you are a victim of society. Man up for your choices. You like human rights but not so much you want to give up your oil fueled lifestyle.

Define giving up.

I already laid out in a previous post why essential activities having nothing to do with ‘luxuries’ can be construed as supporting them, which you ignored. So what sort of lifestyle would you expect from someone before that person can criticise the Saudis without being a hypocrite? Or a Venezuelan who uses their own country oil is fair game, but any other person who fills up a tank without knowing the source of that can’t? Don’t you see how arbitrary and ridiculous that is?

 

[Cloud7]

Define giving up.

I already laid out in a previous post why essential activities having nothing to do with ‘luxuries’ can be construed as supporting them, which you ignored. So what sort of lifestyle would you expect from someone before that person can criticise the Saudis without being a hypocrite? Or a Venezuelan who uses their own country oil is fair game, but any other person who fills up a tank without knowing the source of that can’t? Don’t you see how arbitrary and ridiculous that is?

If you listen to some of the prevailing views in this thread, the only time you can have a problem is if you live in a dirt hut built from dirt you harvested for yourself. No electricity or electronic devices. You have to sew your own clothes from cotton you grow for yourself. Grow your own food and cook it only with fire started from twigs and rocks. You can only cook the food by sticking it on twigs and holding it over the fire of course, and eat it in your bare hands, because somewhere along the line pots, pans and cutlery would have used oil or natural gas in their manufacturing.

Then, and only then, can you actually have a problem with the Saudis taking over United.

Edit: I forgot to mention that all of this has to take place in some undiscovered island somewhere that has no government, because by default if you exist in a country that means that you support everything every government of that country has ever done.

 

[SteveJ]

Q. Are you a billionaire?

A. Yes

you're in!

The authorities would welcome Hitler himself.

 

[Hugh Jass]

If you listen to some of the prevailing views in this thread, the only time you can have a problem is if you live in a dirt hut built from dirt you harvested for yourself. No electricity or electronic devices. You have to sew your own clothes from cotton you grow for yourself. Grow your own food and cook it only with fire started from twigs and rocks. You can only cook the food by sticking it on twigs and holding it over the fire of course, and eat it in your bare hands, because somewhere along the line pots, pans and cutlery would have used oil or natural gas in their manufacturing.

Then, and only then, can you actually have a problem with the Saudis taking over United.

Edit: I forgot to mention that all of this has to take place in some undiscovered island somewhere that has no government, because by default if you exist in a country that means that you support everything every government of that country has ever done.

This.

 

[tieunhilang]

Good the desire some utd fans have to sell the clubs soul to a regime with such a terrible human rights record staggers me

There are things more important than buying success . I would rather city win every cup for a 100 years than follow then down the same path

Wot? Doesn't being a Manchester United fan mean we want the best for our club, we want our club to succeed? The thing some posters say about they'd rather have United fall into obscurity or City to win and put us in their shadows just because they dislike the Saudi reign really staggers me.

So rather than "glory hunter" as they accuse others of, they'd prefer to play "moral hunter"?

 

[Sky1981]

14 Years, Yes Fourteen years after a leveraged buyout of which the Glazers put up the club against the £790m loan the club still owes over £450m while they promote the brand furiously in order to pay obscene interest amounts and line their own pockets,they have taken out over one Billion pounds in interest payments and dividends,yes they have supported the 3 managers since 2013 but the net spend since 2017 has been £42m,clearly the Glazers never bought the club to fight for titles but to extract has much as possible for themselves, IF they sell to the Saudis then its very much mission accomplished for them from a business sense,they came in with nothing,offered nothing but walked away dripping with gold,make no mistake,they have been terrible owners for this club and held it back to what it could truly achieve on the pitch while concentrating on maximising what it could achieve off it for themselves!

The Saudis however are a different entity,if one looks purely at the football side of it then its scary what the club could become on the pitch,debt free overnight at the stroke of a pen,new stadium development, world class players like Mbappe etc (probably saying he wants a new challenge in england) wanting a slice of a waking juggernaut,self sustaining,going head to head with the noisy neighbours on a level playing field in the prem and champions league,would you not prefer that to the Glazers and fighting for 4th.....

From a moral viewpoint,you cant please all the people all of the time,Murdoch (sky),Knighton,Qatar a few years ago,everyone had mixed opinions and our current owners are not exactly whiter than white, whatever happens the club goes on as it has done for over a 100 years,you cant stop being a red including moving forward as modern day football evolves,ask any City fan if they regret a takeover from the Sheiks,their not remotely bothered who owns the club as long as they are on course for a quadruple playing brilliant football with a brilliant coach,do we want to be left behind?? we will be if we remain in the current ownership.

1 billion pound?
Stop being a red?

Where do you get those figures? Owes 750 paid 300 took out 1 billion?