Are things as bad as this?

032Devil said:
Generally I tend to agree with you Boring but I don't think one is enough. What if he gets a serious injury? We'd be back to square one. It's exactly what happened last season. We got rid of midfielders without replacing them. What we had remaining got injuried and we had a crisis.


Two minimum.
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One of he main reason for our fine form in the last half of last season, was in my opinion the fact that we played a consistent team, no chopping and changing.

If we bring in two new midfielders, this will mean contious chopping and changing week in, week out.

If a new player gets injured, then so be it. Tough luck. That's football. What if Rio gets injured, or Rooney?
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
One of he main reason for our fine form in the last half of last season, was in my opinion the fact that we played a consistent team, no chopping and changing.

If we bring in two new midfielders, this will mean contious chopping and changing week in, week out.

If a new player gets injured, then so be it. Tough luck. That's football. What if Rio gets injured, or Rooney?
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Agreed. Scholes and Giggs between them can handle the creative share of the central midfield. They just need a partner.

1 midfielder (essential) + 1 striker (bonus) and we have a squad to be content with.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
One of he main reason for our fine form in the last half of last season, was in my opinion the fact that we played a consistent team, no chopping and changing.

If we bring in two new midfielders, this will mean contious chopping and changing week in, week out.

If a new player gets injured, then so be it. Tough luck. That's football. What if Rio gets injured, or Rooney?
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we need 2 more not because we dont have midfielders
it is because the existings are either a bit old or not good enough

as mentioned already, compared with liverPOOR and arse, ours are not better than them
thus we need 2 not just 1
 
giggsyflying said:
we need 2 more not because we dont have midfielders
it is because the existings are either a bit old or not good enough

as mentioned already, compared with liverPOOR and arse, ours are not better than them
thus we need 2 not just 1
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We don't.

We have Scholes.
We have Giggs.
We have young David Jones.

Add another, and that will do.

So what if Arsenal and Liverpool have better midfields than us? Whoever we buy, we won't match Liverpool's centre midfield. But, we have better defenders, wingers and strikers than them.
 
We need two midfielders Boring, dont be ridiculous. We cant rely on Jones, he simply hasnt progressed, Giggs is not a centre midfielder and Scholes' form over the past few years has been very patchy indeed.

If we get Carrick fine but we need a ball winner in there, someone who will give us some energy and put himself about. Even someone like Hargreaves would do. To imply you'd be fine with O'Shea or Giggs in there is delusion.
 
VanNistelrater said:
We need two midfielders Boring, dont be ridiculous. We cant rely on Jones, he simply hasnt progressed, Giggs is not a centre midfielder and Scholes' form over the past few years has been very patchy indeed.

If we get Carrick fine but we need a ball winner in there, someone who will give us some energy and put himself about. Even someone like Hargreaves would do. To imply you'd be fine with O'Shea or Giggs in there is delusion.
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How do you know whether Jones has progressed or not? Did you wtach alot of Preston and NEC last season? :confused:

We need ONE midfielder to partner Scholes.

Giggs is an alternative to Scholes - offers something different in the centre of the pitch, especially away from home when we could have more space.

No one is implying that we should continue with O'Shea and Giggs in the middle.
 
It's irrelevant how he did, we cannot rely on him to be a part of our midfield. I bet he wont even play more than 5 Premiership games this season, if any. In todays circumstance, with Chelseas squad depth etc., we need two quality established midfielders.

Scholes cant be relied upon to play well every week, hence why Carrick looks like he's going to be brought in. Carrick and Scholes wouldnt be a good pairing, two very similar players. We need to get someone in there with a bit of bulk and presence about them, as we have needed for about the last 3 years but people continue to think otherwise, it has cost us. We dont dominate the midfield enough, especially in Europe, where we simply dont keep the ball well enough through the middle of the pitch to build consistent attacks.
 
VanNistelrater said:
It's irrelevant how he did, we cannot rely on him to be a part of our midfield. I bet he wont even play more than 5 Premiership games this season, if any. In todays circumstance, with Chelseas squad depth etc., we need two quality established midfielders.

Scholes cant be relied upon to play well every week, hence why Carrick looks like he's going to be brought in. Carrick and Scholes wouldnt be a good pairing, two very similar players. We need to get someone in there with a bit of bulk and presence about them, as we have needed for about the last 3 years but people continue to think otherwise, it has cost us. We dont dominate the midfield enough, especially in Europe, where we simply dont keep the ball well enough through the middle of the pitch to build consistent attacks.
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So, basically, we should just get rid of all midfielders in the youth set up then?

Or maybe we should get rid of the youth set-up all together?

I agree that we need a player with some presence in midfield. Someone to partner Scholes.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
So, basically, we should just get rid of all midfielders in the youth set up then?

Or maybe we should get rid of the youth set-up all together?

I agree that we need a player with some presence in midfield. Someone to partner Scholes.
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Some one to partner and compete with Scholes!! Scholes never has a full season its time we had some alternatives.
 
Do you honestly think Jones is an option this season? Fergie tried him pre-season last year and he didnt impress, I doubt he will even play him once in the Premiership this season. He's what, 21? If players are going to step up and play at the level MUFC demands, they have usually started to do so by this age.

I did watch him at Preston a few times, although not NEC admittedly, and whilst he was good I think you have to consider the level he's playing at, I really dont think he can be relied upon as part of our midfield plans. We should be hoping, not expecting of him, it's too much of a gamble with our rivals prowess to have someone so unproven as Jones a realistic midfield option.

Carrick for 10-12 million, and Gattuso on loan (considering our finances) would be the best scenario. Carrick is proven in the Premiership and uses the ball brilliantly, he will benefit us especially in Europe IMO, whilst Gattuso seems to be willing to come to us and would give our defence protection and midfield some presence and energy. I dont think, in the circumstance of Seria A, that the two are unrealistic options.

Do you think Carrick and Scholes would be a good partnership? Very unlikely...where is the balance to it?
 
Mainoldo said:
Some one to partner and compete with Scholes!! Scholes never has a full season its time we had some alternatives.
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Giggs being the alternative.
 
032Devil said:
Plus (IMO) they don't maximise their squad potential either. For the squad they have had in the last two seasons, they haven't exactly won every trophy going. And I doubt that they ever will.

It's not about what you have but how well you use it. Both Ferguson and Wenger are arguably better managers than Mouthrinho.

What Ferguson and Wenger did last season with depleted squads is nothing short of amazing.
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Thats utter bollocks. United did shite last season. SAF made numerous mistakes, far more then mourihno. The only reason utd made the champions league is because we have rooney! Last season was that simple.
 
VanNistelrater said:
Do you honestly think Jones is an option this season? Fergie tried him pre-season last year and he didnt impress, I doubt he will even play him once in the Premiership this season. He's what, 21? If players are going to step up and play at the level MUFC demands, they have usually started to do so by this age.

I did watch him at Preston a few times, although not NEC admittedly, and whilst he was good I think you have to consider the level he's playing at, I really dont think he can be relied upon as part of our midfield plans. We should be hoping, not expecting of him, it's too much of a gamble with our rivals prowess to have someone so unproven as Jones a realistic midfield option.

Carrick for 10-12 million, and Gattuso on loan (considering our finances) would be the best scenario. Carrick is proven in the Premiership and uses the ball brilliantly, he will benefit us especially in Europe IMO, whilst Gattuso seems to be willing to come to us and would give our defence protection and midfield some presence and energy. I dont think, in the circumstance of Seria A, that the two are unrealistic options.
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I don't see why Jones shouldn't be an option this season. What have we got to lose? If he doesn't grab the chance hopefully given to him, then ship him out next year. If he does grab the chance, we might have an excellent player on our hands, for nothing, brought through the youth system and most likely a loyal servant for the club for years to come.

Getting two players in, sounds good in theory, but it will cause the problem with chopping and changing the team non-stop, and it will stop young players like Jones being given an opportunity.
 
tilo said:
Thats utter bollocks. United did shite last season. SAF made numerous mistakes, far more then mourihno. The only reason utd made the champions league is because we have rooney! Last season was that simple.
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That's like saying the only reason Arsenal made the Champions League was Henry, and Liverpool because of Gerrard.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
I don't see why Jones shouldn't be an option this season. What have we got to lose? If he doesn't grab the chance hopefully given to him, then ship him out next year. If he does grab the chance, we might have an excellent player on our hands, for nothing, brought through the youth system and most likely a loyal servant for the club for years to come.

Getting two players in, sounds good in theory, but it will cause the problem with chopping and changing the team non-stop, and it will stop young players like Jones being given an opportunity.
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Why is it a problem with chopping and changing?

If we get two midfielders in, they would be our two first choice midfielders. Scholes would be an excellent option to have on the bench, so would Jones incidently.

Carrick is a good buy IMO, but Scholes cant partner him. We'll also need a new forward probably...christ knows. Bit of a mess so far this summer!
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Giggs being the alternative.
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What the hell are you on about, Giggs is a winger i'm feed up of playing players out of position. It's not an alternative it's a last resort! We need CENTRAL midfield depth and what if our new signing gets injured we're back to square one.
 
VanNistelrater said:
Why is it a problem with chopping and changing?

If we get two midfielders in, they would be our two first choice midfielders. Scholes would be an excellent option to have on the bench, so would Jones incidently.

Carrick is a good buy IMO, but Scholes cant partner him. We'll also need a new forward probably...christ knows. Bit of a mess so far this summer!
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Where's the mess? It's just retarded drama queens stressing.

Chopping and changing is bad, IMO. I prefer to have a consistent XI, and as mentioned before, I think that was the key to our good second half of last season.

If Carrick can't partner Scholes, then he shouldn't be bought.
 
Mainoldo said:
What the hell are you on about, Giggs is a winger i'm feed up of playing players out of position. It's not an alternative it's a last resort! We need CENTRAL midfield depth and what if our new signing gets injured we're back to square one.
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Giggs showed last season that he is a good alternative in centre midfield.

If we get players injured, we just have to live with it. It's part and parcel of the game.
 
VanNistelrater said:
Scholes is past it AEBM, come off it. He is a very good player on the ball but if we want to win the league he cant play week in week out. Carrick is obviously a replacement for him.
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I don't think Scholes is past it. With the right players around him, he is an asset to any team in the league.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
I don't think Scholes is past it. With the right players around him, he is an asset to any team in the league.
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We are not building a Midfield to benefit Paul Scholes!! Like the man said above Carrick should be bought to compete with Scholes and a player along the lines of Vieira to partner them. Yes Scholes is a asset but not in the terms of Rooney more in the terms of Bergkamp(Can't spell) for Arsenal has been over the past 2 years.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Where's the mess? It's just retarded drama queens stressing.

Chopping and changing is bad, IMO. I prefer to have a consistent XI, and as mentioned before, I think that was the key to our good second half of last season.

If Carrick can't partner Scholes, then he shouldn't be bought.
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Scholes still has much to offer . However to suggest that we should not buy Carrick because he may not be a good partner for Scholes is misplaced. (In any event I believe Carrick and Scholes would be an ok pairing with Scholes in the more advanced role)

IMHO our transfer funds should be put into acquiring the very best new CM pairing available - Probably Carrick and Diarra. This pairing would see us set for the next 6 years. Scholes on the other hand despite being perhaps our best player of recent years behind Keane, is in the twilight of his career. Like Giggsy - he has a role to play but it may increasingly be as a highly experienced squad player.
 
I'd just buy Carrick and Hargreaves myself. That's probably the transfer equivalent of buying a flat pack from Ikea but at least it'd bloody work instead of Djemba, Kleb or some other shiny booted numpty.
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
That's like saying the only reason Arsenal made the Champions League was Henry, and Liverpool because of Gerrard.
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No its not, im not just saying it because rooney is our biggest name. If you where awake last season you would have seen that rooney won us 15-25 points on his own. Thats a huge difference! SAF contributed nothing of note last season IMO. His tactics where as ever flawed, united played with no intensity and no distinctive purpose. Hap hazard patterns of play that are much less impressive then the well drilled nature of chelsea.
 
tilo said:
No its not, im not just saying it because rooney is our biggest name. If you where awake last season you would have seen that rooney won us 15-25 points on his own. Thats a huge difference! SAF contributed nothing of note last season IMO. His tactics where as ever flawed, united played with no intensity and no distinctive purpose. Hap hazard patterns of play that are much less impressive then the well drilled nature of chelsea.
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Err... forgive my ignorance, but wasn't the team picked by fergie?

Weren't all the players, bought and coached by fergie?

Have you just arrived on earth?

Are you Superman, returning afeter five years, only to find that things have changed, and you have been left behind and that people have moved on and no longer need you?

Just wondering...
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
What teams have a squad that puts fear into compeitions once you get Past their starting XI?
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Chelsea. I was also being sarcastic, I don't even think our second XI finishes top 5.
 
tilo said:
No its not, im not just saying it because rooney is our biggest name. If you where awake last season you would have seen that rooney won us 15-25 points on his own. Thats a huge difference! SAF contributed nothing of note last season IMO. His tactics where as ever flawed, united played with no intensity and no distinctive purpose. Hap hazard patterns of play that are much less impressive then the well drilled nature of chelsea.
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:rolleyes:
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
One of he main reason for our fine form in the last half of last season, was in my opinion the fact that we played a consistent team, no chopping and changing.

If we bring in two new midfielders, this will mean contious chopping and changing week in, week out.

If a new player gets injured, then so be it. Tough luck. That's football. What if Rio gets injured, or Rooney?
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The reason (I believe) we improved in the latter half of the season was the pairing of Giggs with O'Shea in midfield. Ryan influence in midfield was immense and not to be underestimated. Meanwhile, O'Shea did the relatively simple task of tackling and supporting Giggs.

The chopping and changing happened before this because SAF couldn't hit on a successful formula. He tried Fletcher & O'Shea, Fletcher & Richardson, O'Shea and Richardson, Giggs & Fletcher; plus some other combinations. It wasn't until he used Giggs & O'Shea that a glimmer of light began to shine.

We should always have two players for each position. In the past we had Keane & Butt. At the moment we only have O'Shea and possibly Smith as DM but neither of them are natural at that position. Although I think O'Shea is beginning to develope into one, a club like United needs two top class naturals at that position and especially when we reach a stage we have crucial games and we can't afford to compromise on talent.
 
032Devil said:
The reason (I believe) we improved in the latter half of the season was the pairing of Giggs with O'Shea in midfield.
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no, the reason we improved in the latter half is because the poor standard of the league
the bottom clubs were tired, so our average team could still win
once we played against chelski, we lost heavily
in addition, if we were that good, we need not secure the 2nd place over liverPOOR in the last 2 games
thus, we need 2 midfielder
 
tilo said:
Thats utter bollocks. United did shite last season. SAF made numerous mistakes, far more then mourihno. The only reason utd made the champions league is because we have rooney! Last season was that simple.
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With Keane gone, Scholes gone, SAF still managed to get United second-place in the Premiership, QF in the FA Cup, and win the League Cup. The only one dissappointment was the CL. That is still some achievement. If you don't think so then look it another way: Wenger didn't achieve as much.

Ferguson did have major problems and he dealt with them pretty much successfully at the end of the day. Keane (rightly or wrongly) left, Scholes and Keane injured - that's the heart of the midfield ripped out.


Ferguson's one major glaring fault over the last three seasons has been his inability to get good midfield players. And he seems to be going the same way so far this summer too.

I'd much rather Ferguson throws caution to the wind and go out and buy three midfielders of quality and nobody else (except cover for VDS). We can live with the strikers we have. There are plenty of top clubs that would love our front-line. Our frontline achieved much last season with almost no support from midfield. With a good midfield both defence and attack would benefit.
 
I agree, our midfield combo did well and we had a fantastic run but i doubt Giggs and especially O'Shea in the middle is good enough to compete at the highest level. So we need at least one very good DM, a 2nd good midfielder would be a bonus, but i doubt we have the money.

As for Scholes sitting on the bench, we would have to buy a very expensive and a very good midfielder, and i dont think we have enough money (again) and i doubt there is such a midfielder available who would keep Scholes out of the first XI
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
We don't.

We have Scholes.
We have Giggs.
We have young David Jones.

Add another, and that will do.

So what if Arsenal and Liverpool have better midfields than us? Whoever we buy, we won't match Liverpool's centre midfield. But, we have better defenders, wingers and strikers than them.
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We have Scholes. he may suffer a relapse
We have Giggs. for an older player, a full season maybe too much to ask
We have young David Jones. He may or may not be the answer. If he does well then good, if he doesn't then I don't want United waiting until January to get another midfielder. Remember last winter?

Liverpool have strengthened with (what is it) five new players? They've got themselves atleast one very good player in Bellamy. Arsenal have got Rosicky. Both good players that have improved these teams. Whether our Jones is as good as these two, that's a big ask.
 
Jones is homegrown and that to me is an awful lot more important. If I'm honest I'm getting a bit fed up of everyone throwing around the names of big foreign stars. Lets get relegated out of the league and start again from scratch. Now THAT would be worth me going back to OT.
 
032Devil said:
We have Scholes. he may suffer a relapse
We have Giggs. for an older player, a full season maybe too much to ask
We have young David Jones. He may or may not be the answer. If he does well then good, if he doesn't then I don't want United waiting until January to get another midfielder. Remember last winter?

Liverpool have strengthened with (what is it) five new players? They've got themselves atleast one very good player in Bellamy. Arsenal have got Rosicky. Both good players that have improved these teams. Whether our Jones is as good as these two, that's a big ask.
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Liverpool have bought 5-6 new players every summer for the last 15 years or so. We should focus on United, whatever other teams do.

Argue as much as you like. With the players we have, young or old etc, I don't beleive we should buy more than one centre midfielder, because:

1) If we buy two, there will be too much chopping and changing
2) If we buy two, it will give young players like Jones less of a chance
 
giggsyflying said:
no, the reason we improved in the latter half is because the poor standard of the league
the bottom clubs were tired, so our average team could still win
once we played against chelski, we lost heavily
in addition, if we were that good, we need not secure the 2nd place over liverPOOR in the last 2 games
thus, we need 2 midfielder
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What are you on?

If the lower teams were tired then they were tired for all other teams in the Premiership too. And if your implying that all we played in the second-half of the season were bottom clubs then you need to understand how match fixtures are arranged for the season. We played both top and bottom teams throughout the season.

You need to give our team some credit too.
 
Feck all these foreign stars. How about players who actually want to play for Manchester United not for the paycheck? Now that would be nice.
 
Yes, things really are as bad as this. I have just received news that we will be getting NO transfer money this year and will thus have to sign players from non-league teams on free transfers in order to bolster our squad. We are replacing Ruud van Nistelrooy with Aaron McLean from Grays, who is pretty decent on Football Manager, as I hear!

In other news, the Glazers are ready to sell Rooney, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Heinze, O'Shea, Evra and Fletcher to Real Madrid for 700 million pounds, but all that money will simply go to REPAY OUR DEBTS, which have now reached 17 TRILLION POUNDS. Glazers are also planning to sell Old Trafford to Liverpool, who will promptly rename it Scouse Trafford. They will then use it exclusively to stage Oasis concerts, while Manchester United will be forced to share its ground with a non-league team, probably the same one we're buying Aaron McLean from.

Oh, and Ferguson has named his successor who will take charge of the team next year - Graeme Souness! Imagine that!
 
CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Argue as much as you like.

2) If we buy two, it will give young players like Jones less of a chance
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Quality will always get through regardless. The problem with United youth of recent years is that they haven't been as talented as in the past.

With the exception of Brown, Rossi and possibly Bardsley, other recent talent has been sub-standand - Fletcher, O'Shea. I'd hate Jones to be given the same number of chances as these two to prove his worth.
 
Sauxees Moi Hui said:
Yes, things really are as bad as this. I have just received news that we will be getting NO transfer money this year and will thus have to sign players from non-league teams on free transfers in order to bolster our squad. We are replacing Ruud van Nistelrooy with Aaron McLean from Grays, who is pretty decent on Football Manager, as I hear!

In other news, the Glazers are ready to sell Rooney, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Heinze, O'Shea, Evra and Fletcher to Real Madrid for 700 million pounds, but all that money will simply go to REPAY OUR DEBTS, which have now reached 17 TRILLION POUNDS. Glazers are also planning to sell Old Trafford to Liverpool, who will promptly rename it Scouse Trafford. They will then use it exclusively to stage Oasis concerts, while Manchester United will be forced to share its ground with a non-league team, probably the same one we're buying Aaron McLean from.

Oh, and Ferguson has named his successor who will take charge of the team next year - Graeme Souness! Imagine that!
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Source?
 
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