Hes ok. We didnt buy him to be pinging forward passes to our strikers though. We bought him because he is press resistant and he can, and does, play mid length passes between the lines when it's not always the easiest option. We wanted a Chris Smalling who doesn't shit himself everytime he gets the ball, basically.
Are you guys happy with Maguires distribution of the ball?
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
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No issue with his ball skills/passing. For me he has not been the commanding centre half I expected and you can sense oppo teams feel they now have a chance from set pieces/corners against us.
I think he is comfortably better on the ball than lindelof. Maguire always looks composed and in control on the ball whereas lindelof always looks under pressure like he has no time on the ball.
I think he is comfortably better on the ball than lindelof. Maguire always looks composed and in control on the ball whereas lindelof always looks under pressure like he has no time on the ball.
Apart from huge blunders against Palace, Southampton, Everton and several others that cost us a lot of points.. yea definitely the better defender
.What distribution skills?
I guess passing it further than 5 yards and not to an opposition player is considered skill these days, since that was the main criticism of our own defenders before signing him.
I guess passing it further than 5 yards and not to an opposition player is considered skill these days, since that was the main criticism of our own defenders before signing him.
People said his passing/distribution was good before joining us, I just don't see that. Pretty average in everything so far.
Better than what we currently have, but yesterday's Lindelof pass to Rashford was world class and should be 1:0, so Harry needs to keep improving or he won't be relevant like in first matches of the season.
Also need to clear the squad from defenders who barely play and try upgrade the lineup even further.
Also need to clear the squad from defenders who barely play and try upgrade the lineup even further.
Was he ever a great passer? To me he always looked like a better dribbler than passer. He looks capable of holding the ball and driving it into midfield before making a simple pass, rather than being the guy who sprays Hollywood passes out wide or through the lines.
Maguire's on the ball play has been much better than Lindelof's. Its not just about playing a progressive pass, he also does a better job dribbling and drawing players to himself before playing the progressive pass to a player who now has more space because the player came to him.
Unfortunately no CB was going to come in and significantly improve our attacking play and anyone who thought it would was clearly deluded as has been proven this season. Thats not how it works. Its just a minor improvement to buildup play.
On top of this we still have a DM dropping deep to collect the ball from a short pass from the CBs - Fred. So anyone who suggested Matic was doing that because of our CBs has also been proven incorrect.
Unfortunately no CB was going to come in and significantly improve our attacking play and anyone who thought it would was clearly deluded as has been proven this season. Thats not how it works. Its just a minor improvement to buildup play.
On top of this we still have a DM dropping deep to collect the ball from a short pass from the CBs - Fred. So anyone who suggested Matic was doing that because of our CBs has also been proven incorrect.
Will always be hit-and-miss with those long balls.
I like that he goes forward and sometimes adds to our attack.
But i feel like the whole game slows down when he has the ball. He needs abit more urgency to pressure the opposition.
I like that he goes forward and sometimes adds to our attack.
But i feel like the whole game slows down when he has the ball. He needs abit more urgency to pressure the opposition.
It's believed here that both Maguire and Lindelof are great at it(or at least was until people actually saw them playing for us).
I think he's been good enough, it's just the classic scenario where when you have the player you analyse every single moment, whereas when they play for someone else, you don't.
I'm pretty sure if we signed Maddison we'd all be making the same moans, and quickly decide that he's "not an upgrade on Lingard"
I'm pretty sure if we signed Maddison we'd all be making the same moans, and quickly decide that he's "not an upgrade on Lingard"
I am though I wasn't able to watch the match yesterday. Teams respect Maguire when he gets the ball and, therefore, he has a calming affect on the team. He is our safety valve when circulating the ball around the back and every team needs a player like that. Last year we had no one. There are two problems though. One, our midfield is usually average or worse and that places pressure on the CDs. Two, opposing teams employ tactics so that Maguire passes the ball to the other defenders and then they pressure heavily. They don't pressure Maguire nearly as much because there are 3 much weaker players with the ball.
If you don't notice this, well, I'm not sure what to say.
If you don't notice this, well, I'm not sure what to say.
No, it's average as feck, I think I've seen Lindelöf try and succeed in more type of passes you'd expect from a 'ball playing' CB, like the one at the beginning of the last match.
Quite frankly I still hold opinion that there're no distinctive qualities in Magurie's arsenal which would make him be worthy of the price we've paid.
Quite frankly I still hold opinion that there're no distinctive qualities in Magurie's arsenal which would make him be worthy of the price we've paid.
They don't pressure him nearly as much because he's good on the ball? They show him respect by not pressing him?
The bigger issue is that we have two CMs in McTominay and Fred (who have improved to be fair) who can't pass the ball between the lines. Maguire is good on the ball for a CB but midfield is bigger issue, as well as lack of attacking full backs, for why we can't break down teams.
If you are a good player with the ball opposing players respect it and just give token pressure. This soft pressure is made to force a safe pass to someone not so good with the ball. Opposing teams want the ball with Lindelof and AWB, and a little less with Shaw and Young. When our center midfielders were atrocious (Fred and Andreas) then they wanted them to have the ball. You always want the weakest players to have the ball.
He's been ok, I don't think anybody thinks that just because we paid 80M for him we were going to get someone of VVD calibre. He is a good defender but not a top one, not his fault we have addiction for overpaying for english players.
He looks very comfortable on the ball, which is good to have after having the likes of Smalling, Jones, Rojo and Bailey hoofing the ball up at every opportunity. I think he will improve more once we actually get some good midfielders.
To be fair, the movement in front of him has been pretty abysmal at times from both the midfield and attackers. Resorting to pinging long passes which generally have a low percentage of completion is more down to a lack of options.
We just don't do the basics well at times. McTominay and Fred should be showing for the ball or taking up positions to receive it between the lines, which neither did on a consistent basis on Sunday. Furthermore, the ball behind the Everton left flank for James was on all game, against Digne and Baines, yet only twice did we play that pass, and both times James was in behind. Why did we not see more of this?
Missing that creative spark, and that experienced game management big time. We identified a weakness in Everton's approach, and failed to take advantage of it on a consistent basis.
We just don't do the basics well at times. McTominay and Fred should be showing for the ball or taking up positions to receive it between the lines, which neither did on a consistent basis on Sunday. Furthermore, the ball behind the Everton left flank for James was on all game, against Digne and Baines, yet only twice did we play that pass, and both times James was in behind. Why did we not see more of this?
Missing that creative spark, and that experienced game management big time. We identified a weakness in Everton's approach, and failed to take advantage of it on a consistent basis.
His short range passing is fine but he really needs to cut out the long balls.
This is what I feel too.He seems to be playing within himself...He needs to start taking more risks when he’s on the ball...
Fair enough.
You are right but I don't think Lindelof and AWB are targeted. When we have our first choice backline we are pretty competent against a press.
It's not one or the other. Now Fred drops back because he wants to, not because he has to. Sometimes our defenders play through the lines. It is noticeable in how little we are pressed compared to the last seasons and how few times we end up playing across our own goal line - and as you love a stat, how few long kicks De Gea is having to play.
From England yes, Leicester no. And the difference there is for England he was doing it from a back 3 and being adventurous.
In a back 2 he doesnt do it because he doesnt have 2 other CBs to cover him.
I’ve thought for a wee while now we probably won’t see the best of him until next season.
I'm happy with Maguire. Has a certain calm and authority about him. Looks comfortable on the ball, likes getting forward and is pretty stable in defence. Would like to see how he'd perform with Smalling.
The first few games for us I was impressed by it but it's been very hit and miss since. On the positive side, I will say i don't remember too many times where he or Lindelof have panicked under an oppositions press. Victor has missed one or two duels in the air and Maguire has been beaten for pace on occasion but I can't remember them buckling under a high press.
Our problem with distribution is deeper than the individual level. When every player is struggling you have to look at the whole and as a whole the movement of the team is poor which makes it harder for players to consistently make good passes. As long as the team is this static it won't improve. You don't magically pass well from the CB position. It's very much dependent on how the players in front of you are moving and how the opposition defends.
His options are very limited to be fair, due to limited movement in front of him. I’m happy with what he has done so far under the circumstances. Smalling and Jones couldn’t do it, so bonus.
I think he's been fine and will get better. Him AWB McT Fred Pogba Rashford Martial James Williams and Greenwood I'm happy with. We need some additions. Then we can talk about these players.
there's been nothing special about Harry so far.....
decent passing but not much more than that
looks a 40m pound defender - more impressive than Bailly/Lindelof but miles off Van Dijk
expected a more commanding CB
decent passing but not much more than that
looks a 40m pound defender - more impressive than Bailly/Lindelof but miles off Van Dijk
expected a more commanding CB
It's very difficult to be a ball-playing defender at United. Even Gullit would struggle pinging balls out within this team. Our midfielders aren't very good at finding pockets of space; our forwards don't like to move into half-spaces, and our full-back's don't like occupying very wide positions on the field. Passes between lines, diagonally to the wing, etc, are routine for teams like Bayern because the movement makes it possible. Partly it's the competency of the defenders passing it, but it's the clear tactical movement that turns a 40% pass into an 80% one. Poor movement can make a good passing CB look worse.
I think Maguire has been excellent and our defence as a result. Yes in 2-3 games we have had spells where we have gave away chances, and those games I think you could put it down to the barrage of attacks the opposition had because our midfield / Ole couldn't get a grip on the game
Feel free to quote me on this, in 3 years we’ll either be in a Phil Jones situation with him or he’ll be gone. Wasn’t enthused by the signing when it happened and he’s not proven me wrong.
Just pretty disappointed overall. I can definitely see some sort of talent there and he hasn’t been absolutely diabolical but could’ve done better. Might change with a few new players.
Just pretty disappointed overall. I can definitely see some sort of talent there and he hasn’t been absolutely diabolical but could’ve done better. Might change with a few new players.
This.
When you have Lingard, who's practically playing as a 2nd striker and your two midfielders Fred and McTominay are being hassled by 3-4 Everton players, it's a systematic failing.
Fred was good in that he dropped and made space. Was a bit disappointed with McTominay's movement in the first half as he kept positioning himself between the lines that would have made for high-risk turnovers and therefore out of the safe passing lanes.
It's why we must absolutely play Pogba in a three man flat midfield and not hope for these no.10s, which would either put Pogba in a two (shudders at the thought) or worse mean we'd have to sell him and rebuild that part of the field again.
That prediction has a pretty nice range of possibilities
More than that, Rashford and James are also very poor off the ball. When the opposition's shape is out of order is where they shine but when we're building up an attack against a team that's holding shape they do absolutely nothing because they just stay out wide. Rashford then makes a run forward out of nowhere and when he doesn't get the pass he walks back to position or is suddenly close to Martial. Those two are the main reason why we are poor against teams that defend deep and also why we are excellent against the better teams when we counter-attack.
It would definitely be nice to have a #10 to take on some of the pressure of attack that's pretty much all on the front 3. It's also true what most people say about our full backs not being good enough going forward. You sometimes see Shaw take matters into his own hands and burst forward, sometimes taking advantage of poor tracking back from the opposition midfielders but usually that doesn't amount to much because our players are really not good enough at making runs into the box when there is a player in position to cross. Maybe that's because of how constricted we are in midfield. I'd like to see Pogba given a run as a #10 and see if things improve. I think we need Pogba back and another top player next to him or to rotate with the wingers to really unlock or players. It's also not just the starters that should take all the criticism, our bench as we all know is not good enough and a big reason why we've not done better.
This has been posted last year, and it's not a great look for Maguire. It basically shows passing range for various centerbacks in Europe, where each bar chart measures the passing range of each player. All the passes are divided by 6 directions (top-forward, bottom-backward, right-right, left-left) and 3 distances (closest to center-shortest pass, farthest from the center-longest passes). Color represents pass' success rate (standardized by z-score) of a group of passes.
He's been ok, but if we thought by paying 80M we would get Franz Beckenbauer MK2, we were sorely mistaken.
Hm I haven't noticed particular poor movement from those two and placed it down more to the advanced midfielder (Lingard, Peirera, Mata etc) being too far from our central two midfielders. In fact I would go as far to say that those two are overcompensating our counter attacking nature and the lack of a third midfielder by being hung out do dry with their hard work tracking back etc. Those two pick up the ball more from our defenders and midfielders more than your Lingards. That's the single biggest problem. It should be the other way round as those two don't have any options for triangles and interplay. McFred are too occupied looking after the middle and being mindful of counter attacks and the same with our fullbacks, who yes are also a bit too reluctant to go forward as the system is not defined enough. It's based too much on invididual brilliance and heroic.
But yes generally agree with Pogba as the third midfielder, not neccessarily as a 10. I'd said it in other threads but last year, there was far too emphasis on 'freeing Pogba' and 'get Pogba higher the pitch' that he was spaced too far from Matic/Herrera. He needs to be on the ball as much as possible facing the goal (tempo setting and creating) and for that to happen we'd need to transition to wanting to be a team that wants to actually dominate possession and stifle teams.
I think the natural game intelligence of your Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Fred, James and McTominay means we should be able to break down teams. Of course it's still a tall ask to hope that OGS can coach that kind of complexity and nuance given what we've seen. The natural talent and ability is all there imo in the squad.